CA's Prop 8, FL's amendment 2 and Arizona's prop 102/ Defining marriage, Surprised this never got mentioned here. Rating Options

[brooklyneast05]

^no it's becuase you don't give any real reason why it's wrong other than that your religion doesn't agree. the simple fact someones religion doesn't agree isn't something that convinces very many people in arguments/debates.


i wouldn't say that repeating what a church told you is "thinking logically". i don't think repeating requires any thinking at all.

[only-tuesdays]

Using your personal beliefs isn't an argument at all. You can be as conservative as you want, you can use the Bible as the basis of your argument. If you provide some scripture, even better. But you have to understand, that you can't possibly force your personal religion on everyone else. Just because you believe it doesn't mean everyone else should be bound by it. Everyone's interpretation of the Bible tends to be different.

As far as the religious beliefs are concerned here are the quotes usually used against homosexuality.

-- Leviticus 18:22: "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination" (NKJV). Leviticus 20:13: "If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Now, I was taught that while the Old Testament is an important aspect of the Bible, we are not bound by it's law. This was before Christ died on the cross for our sins. When Christ sacrificed himself, he put us back on level with God. We no longer need to sacrifice an animal to atone for our sins. At the same time, every sin is the same amount of sin. You are no better for lying than someone who committed murder. Everyone is a sinner, and everyone's sin is the same. The worst thing is when Christians forget that. No one here on earth is in the position to judge another person's sin. The only being who is in that position is God himself.

Of course, none of that matters unless you believe it. ;-)

[*cakedout*]

Doesn't have to be between just a man and women.

that depends who you ask, dont jump to conclusions

[coconutter]

so what if my beliefs contratict yours? i can still think logically about this.

everytime someone a bit more conservative than you guys posts their ideas you all flock together and peck out their eyes because "Oh no! How dare she be against gay marriage?!"

what you all want to hear is vote no on 8!

No, we're pecking out your eyes because you have no legitimate reasons to hate other people. Some of your reasons don't even exist. I really don't think you're reading the posts. You can disagree but you really should have a good reason to disagree and not made up reasons.


By the way, that verse could mean that two homosexual couples shouldn't have sex with each other, and just because two people are married doesn't mean they have sex. It's actually more likely for a boyfriend and girlfriend to be sexually active. I do believe "lying with someone of the same sex" refers to having sex with, not marrying.

[Reidar]

As anti-theistic as I am, Joss-eh-lime didn't say anything about hate, so that's a straw man. Do you think that Barack Obama hates homosexuals because he doesn't support gay marriage? You can consider it faith-based tunnel vision if you'd like, but not active vitriol.

[dosomethin888]

This is a tricky one for me. Would I vote for Prop 8? Yes. Is it a bit tougher saying why on these forums? Yes.

I am a conservative person and Im getting distraught over how liberal this country is becoming: Gay Marriage, Abortion (Partial Birth Abortion which is murder, no way to deny that), legalizing prostitution, the amount of sex, drugs, nudity and language available to young children, taking away our 2nd ammendment right... It is deteriorating our society morally from within.

Homosexuals are SO loud. I think the percentage of homosexuals in the US is like, what, 8% and somehow with so few of them, we are debating gay marriage? With how loud they are and how liberal they are in their views, once gay marriage is legalized, they are going to be wanting more. Like taking children on a field trip to see a homosexual wedding. Thats wrong. And introducing a book in elementary school about two Princes falling in love. Thats wrong.
But these people doing these things.. obviously dont see this behavior as wrong. Just like brainwashing your kids to sing "I love (enter presidential candidate's name here)!" Brainwashing children at all is wrong. I say teach EVOLUTION and CREATIONISM in school. Ya, creationism has no scientific basis but there is overwhelming evidence that the Bible is accurate on more than one account and evolution has enough freakin holes in it. So.. options, options, options.

I guess the main reason I am against gay marriage is because it opens the doors to more morally void things to be pushed into this society. What happens when you take morals out of a society? It crumbles. Well, at least I think so.

[Reidar]

There is no evidence to the favor of Biblical events that puts it on the same plane as the fact of evolution. That's the point of religion being based on faith.

By the way, not all gays are liberal.

[dosomethin888]

There is no evidence to the favor of Biblical events that puts it on the same plane as the fact of evolution. That's the point of religion being based on faith.

By the way, not all gays are liberal.

Ya, your right about that. Ive actually met some gay christians, which I think ARE christians.

But, some gays are liberal and those some are loud.

[brooklyneast05]

Homosexuals are SO loud. I think the percentage of homosexuals in the US is like, what, 8% and somehow with so few of them, we are debating gay marriage?

lol people shouldn't have rights unless there are a majority of them?

[only-tuesdays]

Ya, your right about that. Ive actually met some gay christians, which I think ARE christians.

But, some gays are liberal and those some are loud.

Wait, so conservative is the same as Christian and if you're liberal you're not Christian? Umm...no.

[dosomethin888]

Wait, so conservative is the same as Christian and if you're liberal you're not Christian? Umm...no.

Dude, you just pulled all of that out of your ass. How about if your going to attack me.. reply to something I actually said.

lol people shouldn't have rights unless there are a majority of them?

Ya, I didnt say that they shouldnt have rights.

[brooklyneast05]

Ya, I didnt say that they shouldnt have rights.

how? you asked why we're even debating about gay marriage, and we are debating about gay marriage because gay people want marriage rights.

[Blaqheartedstar]

that depends who you ask, dont jump to conclusions

no one is.

[dilligrout]

^ good point.
One guys argues that some how if prop 8 fails and same sex couples are allowed to marry then soon three people are going to want to marry each other or people are going to want to have the right to marry an animal.
you got to be kidding me.

That makes it sound like gays are animals =(
I hate idiots. This country dissapoints me.

[only-tuesdays]

Homosexuals are SO loud. I think the percentage of homosexuals in the US is like, what, 8% and somehow with so few of them, we are debating gay marriage? With how loud they are and how liberal they are in their views, once gay marriage is legalized, they are going to be wanting more.

By the way, not all gays are liberal.

Ya, your right about that. Ive actually met some gay christians, which I think ARE christians.

But, some gays are liberal and those some are loud.

Dude, you just pulled all of that out of your ass. How about if your going to attack me.. reply to something I actually said.

I didn't pull it out of my ass. From reading what you said it sure seemed like that was your train of thought since homosexual liberals are so devoid of morals as you've said.

[Blaqheartedstar]

Does my public school teach me about the creation of the world by God's design or evolution? Evolution. Who even has a say about it? No one. In the same way, why should marriage be taught in such a liberal way, when the creation of earth itself is not?

I don't want MY little brother going on a field trip to a gay marriage. I don't want MY little brother being exposed to controversial things as a young kid. I don't believe in gay marriage because I believe that those relationships are a sin in God's eyes. That is exactly what the Bible says.

Why does everyone INSIST upon going against nature?

Whether you like it or not, they are going to know eventually on the problems that this nation faces and its up to them to help fix the problems that we often cause.

as for "everyone" insisting we go against nature, its natural to love someone, just some people happen to LOVE someone of the same sex, they can't help that.

[dosomethin888]

I didn't pull it out of my ass. From reading what you said it sure seemed like that was your train of thought since homosexual liberals are so devoid of morals as you've said.

Well, okay. Its not my place to decide whether someone is a Christian or not. That would be hypocritical of me. But a lot of things that liberals stand for are against the Bible, like gay marriage and abortion. Im not speaking for all homosexuals, but some. Most liberals get pissed off when someone stands for something based on the fact that they believe in God and strive to live according to the Bible.

how? you asked why we're even debating about gay marriage, and we are debating about gay marriage because gay people want marriage rights.

I said with so few homosexuals there are in this country, the fact that we are in such a hustle over gay marriage being legalized only points out that homosexuals are loud. They are freely expressing their right to free speech, I didnt bash them for it. I just explained that they are, in fact, LOUD.

[Joss-eh-lime]

^no it's becuase you don't give any real reason why it's wrong other than that your religion doesn't agree. the simple fact someones religion doesn't agree isn't something that convinces very many people in arguments/debates.
i wouldn't say that repeating what a church told you is "thinking logically". i don't think repeating requires any thinking at all.

what you call repeating is what i call my personal beliefs. isnt that what a debate is? its your opinion. its what you think. so i dont have statistical data to back up my belief. its still what i think.

& about gays having rights, they still do. civil unions. hello!

and another thing is that a few people I have heard on the radio and on websites have actually compared being gay in America to being black and that is absolutely ridiculous. a person is BORN black never gay.

[only-tuesdays]

^Actually there has been some research that suggests people are in fact born gay.

[Joss-eh-lime]

^oh rly? well i'll wait around untill they PROVE it thoroughly, then prove it again.

[brooklyneast05]

^oh rly? well i'll wait around untill they PROVE it thoroughly, then prove it again.

just like you did for your religion right

[only-tuesdays]

^oh rly? well i'll wait around untill they PROVE it thoroughly, then prove it again.

Yes, really. As a matter of fact, if you do your research you'll find that America is one of the few countries in the world to go all crazy over GLTB. They've done research in Europe on cadavers that suggests that there is an area of the brain that actually develops differently as a fetus in homosexual people. I'd get the specifics for you, but it's 1AM and I don't feel like digging through my class notes right now. So maybe later.

As a sidenote, this isn't really turning into much of a debate since it's pretty obvious people aren't looking back and reading what is being said, then commenting.

[Joss-eh-lime]

mmk JC, cuz it was really that funny...


of course people want to try and rationalize being gay as being a natural thing, even though 25 years ago being gay was in the text books as deviant behavior. i have a first hand source on that because my mother studied psychiatric medicine.

i dont understand how come gay people want so many "rights" or whatever, when their lifestyle is just that- a lifestyle. a behavior, a personality trait.

[brooklyneast05]

yeah just because something is in a text book doesn't make it fact. that's why there are so many editions of them, you know, becuase we advance and their information becomes outdated...i have no clue where you're going with a 25 year old text book.

[Blaqheartedstar]

ditto

i dont understand how come gay people want so many "rights" or whatever, when their lifestyle is just that- a lifestyle. a behavior, a personality trait.

If your rights as a human being was taken away because your a female wouldn't you fight for it?
the rights of people who are homosexual are taken away or violated because of who they decide to sleep with.

they can't change the fact that they are gay. Just like the women who fought for their rights, they just so happen to not have a penis and men felt they didn't need to work, or have the rights that they did.

African Americans wanted more rights, women wanted more rights, now gays do. They all obviously felt that because of who they were the rights they deserve weren't given to them.