Should America Lower the Drinking Age?, 21 to 18? Rating Options

[mipadi]

Sending an 18 year old to a downtown bar is worse than sending a 21 year old to a bar because they are younger and more vulnerable to the disgusting people who are in those bars.

Have you ever been in a bar? Unless you're talking about the rare run-down "dive", most people in a bar are normal -- not disgusting.

[illriginal]

Have you ever been in a bar? Unless you're talking about the rare run-down "dive", most people in a bar are normal -- not disgusting.

Have you ever been to Ft.Lauderdale or Miami beach?.. even some of the most expensive bars/clubs are filled with disgusting people.

[karmakiller]

There is common sense. If you go into a place and there are disgusting people, leave. An 18 year old can live independently away from home and is bound to run into "disgusting" people in more places than just a bar.

[dosomethin888]

Uh...there is no such thing as "common sense" in a valid argument.

Answer me this: why is 18 a reasonable age for us to be held accountable for our actions as adults, but not to drink? Why do you think that it's not the government's job to help people monetarily, but they have the right to babysit us when we are supposed to be responsible for ourselves? It's not about thinking people are "good," but I do feel that I should point out that the news is going to cover the anomalies, not the majority.

This is why I don't get Republicans. They're all about keeping the government out of our lives when there's money involved, but when it comes to any other personal freedoms it doesn't matter at all.

I honestly don't think that if the drinking age were 18 there would be much of an outcry for it to be lowered. It would be consistent with most other countries, and most other age restrictions. Legal adulthood is the main issue here. If I am to be taking control of my life as an adult at 18, the government has no right to tell me I can and cannot consume. If I am not a child, I should not be treated as a child. The double standard on drinking versus everything else is unreasonable.

But for f*ck's sake, don't tell me I live in my own little bubble when I have undoubtedly experienced a lot more of life than you have.

How is a drinking age a personal freedom? Alcohol isnt something that takes no effect on a person. What I dont get about democrats is that you all live in a little bubble. You think nothing has repercussions. You dont send kids who just learned how to drive 2 years earlier to a bar where there are 45 year old lonely men there waiting to flatter them.
Ugh. Its about protecting people. Sure, we cant put a stamp on an age that produces maturity. But we shouldnt put anyone in danger either. We are not born with instructions on how to deal with the bad in the world. We learn as we grow and we dont throw people out into a bar while they are still learning or a man is going to give a girl a beer with a date rape drug in it and that girl is going to think that he is just being nice.

Seriously, there is more reasons to keep the drinking age at 21 then there is to lower it to 18. Why must we change all these laws? Screw all those other countries with their drinking ages. Do you live there? No. You live here and here our drinking age is 21. Do we really have to change things that dont need to be changed to feel in control?

There is common sense. If you go into a place and there are disgusting people, leave. An 18 year old can live independently away from home and is bound to run into "disgusting" people in more places than just a bar.

Maybe you at 18 would know to leave. But some people wouldnt.

[brooklyneast05]

How is a drinking age a personal freedom? Alcohol isnt something that takes no effect on a person. What I dont get about democrats is that you all live in a little bubble. You think nothing has repercussions. You dont send kids who just learned how to drive 2 years earlier to a bar where there are 45 year old lonely men there waiting to flatter them.

but you send them to another country to kill people and get shot at

[dosomethin888]

but you send them to another country to kill people and get shot at

Could you explain?

[Tomates]

If the drinking age were to be lowered, i think they should lower it to 19.
Yeah a lot of countries and places are 18 but to me it would be kinda weird if i saw a bunch of 18 year olds in my school come to school either drunk or hung over. I'm not saying that would exactly happen but it could and it could happen more often.

[brooklyneast05]

Could you explain?

If you can send someone off to war and fight for their country then by all means they should be entitled to drink.

[dosomethin888]

Well, I guess you have a point there.

[datass]

Screw all those other countries with their drinking ages.

screw you

[dosomethin888]

screw you

Okay, screw you.

[illriginal]

I honestly think the reason why they will not lower it, or at least keep it at the age of 21 is because of maturity. Knowing that most people who are older will be more responsible. With that said, what good would it do in lowering the drinking age? A better/stronger economy? How about the lives that are being involved?

You guys know that I may seem anti-American, it is not all of America that I'm totally against, it is the irresponsibilities (apparently not a word) that have continue to grow in this country. But take a good look at the statistics in the U.S. for a minute:

Click here for drunk driving statistics for 2005; 2004; 2003; 2002; 2001; 2000.

Below are some statistics on drinking and driving in the US. After reading this list, please read about Alcohol Alert to find out what you can do to help stem the tide of drunk driving deaths in your neighborhood...and make money at the same time.

All 50 states in the US and Puerto Rico now apply two statutory offenses to driving under the influence of alcohol. The first (and original) offense is known either as driving under the influence (DUI), driving while intoxicated/impaired (DWI), or operating [a motor vehicle] while intoxicated/impaired (OWI). This is based upon a police officer's observations (driving behavior, slurred speech, the results of a roadside sobriety test, etc.)

The second offense is called "illegal per se", which is driving with a BAC of 0.08% or higher. Since 2002 it has been illegal in all 50 states to drive with a BAC that is 0.08% or higher.

In 2006, there were 13,470 fatalities in crashes involving an alcohol-impaired driver (BAC of .08 or higher) – 32 percent of total traffic fatalities for the year.

16,005 people were killed in the United States in alcohol-related* motor vehicle traffic crashes (BAC of .01 or higher).

In 2006, 1,794 children age 14 and younger were killed in motor vehicle crashes. Of those 1,794 fatalities, 306 (17%) occurred in alcohol-impaired driving crashes. Children riding in vehicles with drivers who had a BAC level of .08 or higher accounted for half (153) of these deaths.

The 13,470 alcohol-impaired-driving fatalities in 2006 were almost the same as compared to 13,451 alcohol-impaired-driving fatalities reported in 1996. Ten years of progress.

The 13,470 fatalities in alcohol-impaired-driving crashes during 2006 represent an average of one alcohol-impaired-driving fatality every 39 minutes.

The rate of alcohol impairment among drivers involved in fatal crashes was four times higher at night than during the day.

The percentage of drivers with BAC of .08 or above in fatal crashes was highest for motorcycle operators (27 percent), followed by light trucks (24 percent), and then passenger cars (23 percent). The percentage of drivers with BAC levels of .08 or higher in fatal crashes was the lowest for large trucks (1%).

In fatal crashes in 2006, the highest percentage of drivers with a BAC level of .08 or higher was for drivers ages 21-24 (33%), followed by ages 25-34 (29%) and 35-44 (25%).

Drivers with a BAC level of .08 or higher involved in fatal crashes were eight times more likely to have a prior conviction for driving while impaired (DWI) than were drivers with no alcohol (8% and 1%, respectively).

In 2006, more than 8,200 (55%) of the drivers involved in fatal crashes who had been drinking had a BAC of .15 or greater.

As in previous years, in 2006, males comprise a majority, about 81 percent, of all drivers involved in fatal crashes with a BAC=.08+.

Here's the chart as to how many DUI related deaths in the U.S. and per state: http://www.alcoholalert.com/drunk-driving-statistics.html

Imagine the death toll if we were to lower the drinking age.

So I ask again, what are the pros for lowering the drinking age?

Does it out weigh an individual's death?

How about the death of others who are in the vehicle?

Or the deaths of those outside of that vehicle?

Does it outweigh the many irresponsible people?

How about all the health issues later down the road?

Does it outweigh domestic violence?

Or how about violence under the influence outside of the home?


I'm totally against alcohol, even more so on lowering the drinking age. I could NEVER forgive someone who killed a friend or a family member because of their stupidity in having to drink and drive. I would do whatever I could to take their lives for their irresponsibility, if they killed a family member. Even if I have to stalk the prison for 60 years until I had my chance. Save me and the rest the little argument of, "well if they lower the drinking age, they should enforce stricter laws on those who are younger". Please, don't waste your time. Majority of people are irresponsible with their own lives.. much more irresponsible dealing with other's.

Like Bob Marley said, "alcohol is the destruction of a nation."

[mipadi]

Like Bob Marley said, "alcohol is the destruction of a nation."

The full quote, of course, is "Herb is the healing of a nation, alcohol is the destruction," so we should legalize marijuana, too.

[illriginal]

The full quote, of course, is "Herb is the healing of a nation, alcohol is the destruction," so we should legalize marijuana, too.

I'm down with legalization of marijuana. But at the same time ban alcohol. Shit isn't good for your mind nor liver, nor the actions you take while you're wasted.

[mipadi]

I'm down with legalization of marijuana. But at the same time ban alcohol. Shit isn't good for your mind nor liver, nor the actions you take while you're wasted.

This just in: Most people who drink alcohol don't abuse it.

[illriginal]

If it makes you impaired... that's bad enough. And I know you'd like to tell us that marijuana does the same... but it's no where the same as the impairment caused by alcohol.

Lets get science involved.
Daily Drinking Rather Than Binge Drinking Is Biggest Risk Factor In Serious Liver Disease, New Study Finds

ScienceDaily (Mar. 20, 2009) - Long-term daily drinking, rather than weekly binge drinking, is by far the biggest risk factor in serious liver disease, according to a new report from the University of Southampton.

The study, published in the journal Addiction this week, concludes that increases in UK liver deaths are a result of daily or near daily heavy drinking, not episodic or binge drinking, and this regular drinking pattern is often discernable at an early age. It also recommends that several alcohol-free days a week is a healthier drinking pattern.

In the study of drinking patterns, dependency and lifetime drinking history in 234 subjects with liver disease, 106 had ALD (Alcohol-related Liver Disease) - 80 of whom had evidence of cirrhosis or progressive fibrosis - the team found that 71 per cent of ALD patients drank on a daily basis.

In contrast to the patients with alcohol-related cirrhosis or fibrosis, patients with other forms of liver disease tended to drink sparingly with only 10 subjects (8 per cent) drinking moderately on four or more days each week.

The study also explored lifetime drinking histories of 105 subjects and found that ALD patients started drinking at a significantly younger age (on average at 15 years old) than other subjects and had significantly more drinking days and units than non-ALD patients from the age of 20 onwards.

Lead author of the study Dr Nick Sheron, consultant hepatologist and senior lecturer at the University of Southampton, comments: "If we are to turn the tide of liver deaths, then along with an overall reduction in alcohol consumption - which means tackling cheap booze and unregulated marketing - we need to find a way to identify those people who are most likely to develop alcohol-related illnesses at a much earlier stage, and perhaps we need to pay as much attention to the frequency of drinking occasions as we do to binge drinking.

"The transition from a late teenage and early 20's binge drinking pattern to a more frequent pattern of increased intake may prove to be a useful point of intervention in the future, and the importance of three alcohol-free days each week should receive more prominence."

Source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/...90319104031.htm


I love Science.

[mipadi]

If it makes you impaired... that's bad enough. And I know you'd like to tell us that marijuana does the same... but it's no where the same as the impairment caused by alcohol.

Why is that "bad enough"?

I love Science.

Apparently you don't love logic, though, because there's nothing in that article that suggests that lowering the drinking age will invariably lead to the consumption of a couple drinks a day.

[illriginal]

Why is that "bad enough"?

Why is that bad enough? Wow.
Anyone here with half a brain can tell you why...

Apparently you don't love logic, though, because there's nothing in that article that suggests that lowering the drinking age will invariably lead to the consumption of a couple drinks a day.

Oh here we go... I don't have logic because I posted a scientifically proven article about drinking alcohol that didn't meet your criteria. Unfortunately you don't see the bigger picture in all this. Yet I don't have logic.

Get lost.

[mipadi]

Why is that bad enough? Wow.
Anyone here with half a brain can tell you why...

I may only have half a brain, but that still doesn't prove your argument. Why is being impaired "bad enough"? There are times when being impaired is a bad thing (if I'm driving a car, for example), but how is it "bad enough" if I'm, say, at a private party, or drinking with a couple of friends in my apartment? Furthermore, even if it is "bad enough", why does the government get to have a say in what I do on my private time?

Oh here we go... I don't have logic because I posted a scientifically proven article about drinking alcohol that didn't meet your criteria. Unfortunately you don't see the bigger picture in all this. Yet I don't have logic.

Get lost.

I didn't say it didn't meet my criteria, in terms of validity. I just pointed out that all the article says is that drinking a bit every day is worse than drinking a lot every now and then. But you haven't shown that lowering the drinking age will result in people drinking a bit every day, so the article is just a straw man.

[illriginal]

What makes being impaired by alcohol, good? What are the pros of an individual being drunk?

I find alcohol needless, as I personally cannot find any good in drinking alcohol. Socializing isn't good enough of a reason to drink alcohol. You and I are able to socialize without alcohol... many years prior to ever gettin a taste of alcohol.

Alcohol is no better than cigarettes.

[mipadi]

What makes being impaired by alcohol, good? What are the pros of an individual being drunk?

Turning the question around on me still doesn't prove your assertion that it's bad.

But just to bite: it's fun.

I find alcohol needless, as I personally cannot find any good in drinking alcohol. Socializing isn't good enough of a reason to drink alcohol. You and I are able to socialize without alcohol... many years prior to ever gettin a taste of alcohol.

Great. Good for you. Lowering the drinking age doesn't compel you to drink, so you may still abstain if you wish.

[illriginal]

Turning the question around on me still doesn't prove your assertion that it's bad.

But just to bite: it's fun.

It's fun?... What exactly makes it fun?... hell I thought my PS3 was fun.. I thought playing sports outside was fun... I never thought drinking a liquid was fun.

Is eating fun too?

Great. Good for you. Lowering the drinking age doesn't compel you to drink, so you may still abstain if you wish.

Lowering the drinking age won't effect me directly. If I'm home. But I don't need to be driving down the road only to get hit by some little 18 year old immature ***hole because of his irresponsiblities. There's a reason why things are set at certain ages. Just because Europe or other parts of the world has a drinking age much lower than ours doesn't make them right in one bit.

There's a lot more to it than just lowering the age to drink. It can make a drastic impact on society. Again you're not putting all the pros and cons into your line of thinking. Instead you're just tryin to prove how fun and joyful it is to drink and that younger adults should join the fun.

[mipadi]

There's a lot more to it than just lowering the age to drink. It can make a drastic impact on society. Again you're not putting all the pros and cons into your line of thinking. Instead you're just tryin to prove how fun and joyful it is to drink and that younger adults should join the fun.

No. What I'm trying to prove is that people should have the individual right to do what they please in the privacy of their own residences, assuming it doesn't affect other people. We already have laws to deal with alcohol-related actions that can affect others (e.g., drunk driving, or assault and battery), but people should have the right to engage in actions responsibly on their own time.

You argue that lowering the drinking age will result in higher incidences of, e.g., drunk driving. But after analyzing other cultures around the world, e.g., many European nations, we see that people are generally more responsible drinkers. Maybe if America wasn't so uptight about alcohol, people would enjoy it more responsibly. Did you ever factor that idea into your line of thinking?

[illriginal]

FFS you guys have gotta request to change the structure of this forum. I just accidentally hit refresh and I lost my full response.

No. What I'm trying to prove is that people should have the individual right to do what they please in the privacy of their own residences, assuming it doesn't affect other people. We already have laws to deal with alcohol-related actions that can affect others (e.g., drunk driving, or assault and battery), but people should have the right to engage in actions responsibly on their own time.

That's fine and dandy... but what you're not understanding is that alcohol in fact does affect other people. What are you going to do? Have a slumber party? Are you honestly going to take away EVERY person's keys from them so that they don't leave? I highly doubt you'll ever have such a social gathering.

So ok... you believe they have the right to drink, especially at the age of 18 as long as their in the privacy of their own home, right? How about bars? Clubs? Restaurants? Would it then be ok to illegalize alcohol sales in bars, clubs, and restaurants?

Hell, I'll be happy with that.


Then you go to mention laws... how funny. Do you honestly think that while you're impaired that you're gonna give two shits about the law? If that was the case, there wouldn't be DUIs or domestic violence, or even violence in general while under the influence.

You're living in fantasy land my good man. You need to come back to reality.

If you want to use laws as a way to make people more responsible, they would then need to enforce MUCH more strict laws in regards to DUI. Meaning first DUI = automatic suspension for life. Automatically added onto a list where you can no longer get a new driver's license, nor be able to purchase a vehicle of any sort.

Instead of giving people a slap on the wrist.


Then violence of any sort while under the influence should definitely become even more strict. A hefty fine for first offense, assuming there wasn't an actual attempt in murder, and automatic prison time for 2nd offense. Regardless if anyone presses charges or not.

You argue that lowering the drinking age will result in higher incidences of, e.g., drunk driving. But after analyzing other cultures around the world, e.g., many European nations, we see that people are generally more responsible drinkers. Maybe if America wasn't so uptight about alcohol, people would enjoy it more responsibly. Did you ever factor that idea into your line of thinking?

I personally find that Americans are a lot more immature and irresponsible than majority of the world.


Second.. these other countries, such as Europe for example make it very difficult for a young person to get a car. In fact people in Europe have to wait til they're 18 years old to be able to drive a vehicle. And just the cost of auto insurance a lone is so high that majority of people who first drove were much older than 18 years old. A perfect example is the French.


Third

It has become accepted wisdom in the United States over two decades that raising the drinking age has reduced alcohol-related traffic deaths. The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration estimates the number of lives saved since 1975 at 23,000. Alcohol remains a leading cause of traffic deaths for young people. Nearly a third of the 3,657 drivers age 15 to 20 who died in car crashes in 2003 had been drinking, the agency found.

[*paperplane*]

How is a drinking age a personal freedom? Alcohol isnt something that takes no effect on a person. What I dont get about democrats is that you all live in a little bubble. You think nothing has repercussions. You dont send kids who just learned how to drive 2 years earlier to a bar where there are 45 year old lonely men there waiting to flatter them.
Ugh. Its about protecting people. Sure, we cant put a stamp on an age that produces maturity. But we shouldnt put anyone in danger either. We are not born with instructions on how to deal with the bad in the world. We learn as we grow and we dont throw people out into a bar while they are still learning or a man is going to give a girl a beer with a date rape drug in it and that girl is going to think that he is just being nice.

Seriously, there is more reasons to keep the drinking age at 21 then there is to lower it to 18. Why must we change all these laws? Screw all those other countries with their drinking ages. Do you live there? No. You live here and here our drinking age is 21. Do we really have to change things that dont need to be changed to feel in control?
Maybe you at 18 would know to leave. But some people wouldnt.

What I consume myself is absolutely a personal freedom. As a legal adult, it should be my choice whether I drink. Does that mean I think I have the right to hurt other people in effect? Absolutely not. But that is why we have a justice system to prevent and punish people who act irresponsibly. Once again, kindly do not tell me that I live in a bubble until you actually go out and try living yourself. It's funny that you keep making this bubble comment, when really you're endorsing the government putting us in bubbles past the point where it is their duty to protect us as minors (18). I don't think your perception of bars is very accurate. Have you ever been near a college town? Most bars aren't going to be full of skeezy men. It's really not that difficult for anyone of any age to leave or avoid a place that they feel uncomfortable. I don't know what makes you think that at 21 people are suddenly going to be infinitely wiser about drinking than they would be at a slightly younger age. I do not know a single person who refrained from drinking until they were actually legal, so chances are 21 year olds know how to handle their booze primarily from their underage experiences.

You cannot say that the government needs to protect 18-21 year old adults, but that they don't need to protect citizens from living in poverty. It's inconsistent. And yeah, no shit I live here. Meaning that these are the useless restrictions that actually effect me, so of course I'm going to want things changed to make the most sense.

People do not magically become mature and responsible at 21. If that were the case, and people were really still too useless to make decisions for themselves at 18, then one would cease to be a minor at 21, rather than 18.


Ok, story time. At my school we had a group called Watch Dawgs that would give people free, nonjudgmental rides home Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights to prevent people from drinking and driving. It's a great program, but they're not operating this semester because, long story short, the university won't give them a space on campus to store their equipment. Why won't the school help such a great organization whose aim is to keep people safe? Because they refuse to take a stance against underage drinking, as that would be judgmental. I applaud the group for maintaining their principles, but the larger issue at hand is that this show how the university is more interested in looking good than actually protecting its students from harm. Saying "oh you're underage you can't drink" is about a million times less helpful than saying "you may or may not have been drinking legally, but we want to get you home safely regardless." Current alcohol laws are preventing the 18-20 year olds who, let's face it, do drink from being taught how to do so responsibly.