The racism of black history month, v. 2.0, from white history month. Options

[sadolakced acid]

Original post:

Okay, so I am not trying to be racist or anything, but who here agrees with me that the black people are getting way more recognition than the whites?

Now we have black history month, black activists month, and negro colleges/college funds? This is just not fair.

Everyone believes that if we have a white history month then we will be racist? We aren't. Blacks are getting everything nowadays and if the white people try to put say into anything, it gets shoved back in our face as a racist comment.

I love black history and everything, but I have pride in being white and we get no recognition whatsoever? Does anyone agree with me..

And please don't say I am being racist. I live in the South for God's sake.

here's a link to the original thread:
http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=58363

things to keep in mind whilest you debate:

• there is an asain history month. and a month for whatever else you can think of, except penguins of course. penguins are discriminated against for sure.
• every month is not white history month. check out the previous thread if you want to argue- pretend you posted, and read the multitudes of responses to whenever that was posted- all 14 times.
• read the thread before posting, please. if you can't, at least read the last few pages to get a general sense of what's being argued and what's been brought up.

have a nice day, and happy debating.

[*nightmare4taki*]

Kanye West
I state the stats to stunt - I don't need to front//
I make black history every day - I don't need a month//

Yeah I said that in the other thread, you don't like it, then give me a brand new verbal warning.

Besides this thread is augmented //
I like things authentic//

[nothing_plus_thi...]

i agree. to an extent.

i believe in equality. in the most literal sense of the word. i don't think anyone (race, gender, sexual-orientation, age, etc.) should have more rights than anyone else. if they are fighting for EQUAL rights, i wish them luck, they deserve that. but, for people to run around acting as though they are better than someone else because of their skin colour, sex partners, or gender...is just ridiculous to me.

the world will never change as long as we have different groups (white, christian, men included) whining and yelling about certain things. demanding to be seen and treated specially by everyone else. because that just draws more attention to each and every difference in the world. there will never be any kind of peace or agreement between everyone unless we can all agree to just shut the heck up. and accept the basic things we have in common -- we are all people. regardless of minor differences. we are PEOPLE. and people should be treated equally.

and that's my 1 cent. i could go on and give the full 2 cents. but, no one would read it.

[sillakilla220]

this is a f**ked up thread just for all the ignorant comments left. if u are really tryin to make the argument that more advantages are offered to blacks u are on crystal meth. blacks are easily the most prejudiced race in the country. no offense, but just b/c slaves no longer exist in the country does not mean that blacks do not still feel the repercussions of slavery. this country was BUILT off of slavery, slaves were the driving economic force in the early stages of our society, not only off the money they generated from themselves, but from the money they generated in the products they produced in the field. for that ALONE there should be a black history month.

not to mention that it was the high amount of racism shown by whites in the first place that brought about a need for institutions like black college funds and black history month. whites have already shown in the past that if they arent forced to treat blacks fairly then they wont. and if u dont learn from history your doomed to repeat it. and for those asking "why isnt there white history month?" i will answer that with a few questions of my own... "how many whites were subjected to such poor standards of living in the early 1900s?"... or "how many whites were hunted down and lynched while crosses burned in their front yards?"... or "how many white leaders were gunned down at the peak of their popularity?" (kennedy's excluded)

and i'm not gonna quote it but whoever made such a big point of the blacks being freed by a white man should be slapped. yeah i applaud lincoln but it took 16 presidents b4 one of them realized slavery was morally wrong? the fact that there was even slavery in the first place should be the bigger issue rather than who freed them...


but to wrap up this lil tirade of mine i will just end it w/ one word.... COINTELPRO... if u are not aware wat this is then google it and get yur learn on cuz its quite interesting and may change the way some of u think

[Mulder]

not to mention that it was the high amount of racism shown by whites in the first place that brought about a need for institutions like black college funds and black history month. whites have already shown in the past that if they arent forced to treat blacks fairly then they wont. and if u dont learn from history your doomed to repeat it. and for those asking "why isnt there white history month?" i will answer that with a few questions of my own... "how many whites were subjected to such poor standards of living in the early 1900s?"... or "how many whites were hunted down and lynched while crosses burned in their front yards?"... or "how many white leaders were gunned down at the peak of their popularity?" (kennedy's excluded)

this is where i say what i always say.

why isnt there a holocaust remembrance month? why isnt there even a holocaust rememberance day? no jewish history month?

jews have nothing.
so, before acting like its only blacks that were prejudiced against, actually look back in history.

alllsssooo, repeating what i said in the other thread, have you been enslaved? did you work for "the white man"?
no.
did your mom? or dad? no.

maybe someone in your family did, i dont know.
it doesnt matter.

my grandparents lived during the holocaust, and im not going around asking people to give me money because they lost some of theirs.

[sillakilla220]

dude that shit happened in germany take your complaint over there man... did americans put jews in concentration camps? no! so why the f**k would we honor that in our country? slaves were in america and directly affected it, jews is another story... it was a horrible event but that came at the hands of a bunch of *gasp* racially charged white europeans who thought their race was superior. thats a whooooole 'nother topic my man cant help u out w/ that in this thread


and if u can read u [....] i already stated... it doesnt matter if ive never been a slave or if my mother, father, grandparents havent either... every black person born feels the repercussions of slavery growing up... just because its abolished does not mean it plays no part in society today and that is what ppl always assume...


[edited by mona lisa]

[nothing_plus_thi...]

what about the japanese and what we did to them during WWII?

they aren't asking for money because of it. and that DID happen in the united states. not some far off place that apparently doesn't matter to nationalistic, moronic assholes.

also, you are racist. why the hell doesn't anyone realize that racism is racism. white people are NOT the only people who are/can be racist. you saying that white people are generally bad because of what happened in the past is RACIST.

get off your high horse and over yourself.
you're no better or worse than a white person, an asian person, a native american person, or any other person on this earth. the past struggles of african americans have no weight in today's world. the only reason it seems that way is because there are some idiots out there who like to whine and complain until they get their ass kissed for being different. and because, i concede, there are some ignorant people out there still who are extremely racist. BUT. if you were a strong person, you would not let that force you down to the level of asking to be treated specially or different from everyone else.


it is utterly childish for adults to run around yelling about someone owing them something for things that happened HUNDREDS of years ago. please, just grow up.


EDIT::: (whites are not a minority in the entire united states. i officially correct myself. and call myself stupid. satisfied?) holding grudges is ridiculous. people need to realize that the world has and still is changing.

everyone is equally idiotic, in my opinion.

This post has been edited by nothing_plus_this: Mar 12 2006, 08:27 PM

[sillakilla220]

^^^^hmmm... interesting points... but lemme school u to sum shit real quick...

first...what happened to the japanese was a tragedy. that is without a question, using two A-bombs like that was crazy. BUT that also happened during wartime and in response to an unprovoked attack against the US... um have u ever heard of Pearl Harbor?? not to mention that really was nothing like slavery.

second... i am far from racist. just b/c i have strong views on what is wrong in this country and am not afraid to voice them does not make me racist. in fact my mother is white. in fact nearly all my best friends are white. u know nothin about who i am outside of wat i post... so please keep your assumptions to yourself. and i never said white ppl are bad but their actions were rather overwhemingly unjust to blacks in the past.

third... it leaves me mind-f**ked how ppl dont think blacks are still affected by slavery. i never said that ppl's shortcomings are a direct cause of slavery b/c i agree, if u are a strong person u can acheive success. but when blacks were freed they all started with nothing. now granted, individually, blacks have been able to make gains in society and move up, but as a whole the black race is largely livin under the poverty line. not to mention that there hasnt really been a truly FAIR playin employment or academic field until the last 25-30 years of the country. has everyone forgotten the notorious Jim Crow laws that segregated blacks to such poorer standards of living than whites? also whether u think so or not slavery created a large rift between blacks and whites that has not really ever gone away.

whites are not the minority either hun. whites still dominate all aspects of the country. Government, media, corporations, military... whites are still at the head of a lot of that. i dont mean to come off as angry in my opinion but its ignorance that i still see in a subject like this that drives me crazy

[nothing_plus_thi...]

i was not referring to the bombing during WWII. i was talking about the "internment camps" here in the united states. read about it here.

and i apologize for jumping to conclusions about you personally. i should have made my statements more general. what i was trying to get at is the point that african americans (especially celebrities) are extremely cruel and racist towards white people. and this is silly to me. because they are being complete hypocrites.

and yes, i have heard of the jim crowe laws. i am avidly interested in history. but! in my opinion, a majority of black people are holding themselves down by allowing the past to run their lives. they are incredibly caught up in who is racist, what is racist, and who is or is not out to get them because they are black. they are determined to become THE top race. reverse the roles, so to speak. admit it, it is clear that that is the goal of many strongwilled african americans. to "put whites in their place". and THAT, dahlin, is what gets to me. is what boils my blood and makes me just want to tell the entire world to shut the hell up. because it's not JUST african americans who do it, i know that. EVERYONE does it for one reason or another. they care about status and rights and who has more and who has what. when, in the end, that will not matter.

also, there are PLENTY of poverty stricken people in the US who are white (me!? my family?! we are struggling to keep our house, eat one meal a day, etc.) i am honestly doubtful that poverty and lower standards are determined by someone's race. i don't think there is some higher power in the government dictating that only black people can be poor or treated poorly.

and i'm sorry, i concede that whites are still the majority overall. but, i will also say that....there has been a LOT of progress made in the human rights department. this country will NEVER be perfect. and it is still FAR from being perfect. but, people of all races are allowed to do everything white, christian men are allowed to do when it comes to laws. it is society itself that has prevented us from having a female or racially diverse president. and that's saying a lot when you look back at how things stood when the country was formed.

and i am also a die hard believer that equal rights means just that, EQUAL. not MORE. and it seems that as time passes, people of all races, genders, and sexual orientations, are attempting to gain more rights for themselves so they can feel as though they are ABOVE white men. and that is not just, in my opinion. i feel that freedom and equality should be for everyone and should not favour anyone. regardless of the past. things will never change if we keep trying to even the score.

again, i am sorry for offending you. that was not my intention.

[*kryogenix*]

nothing_plus_this, caucsasians are not in the minority.

sillakill220:

First of all, I have serious doubts that you've read the previous thread on this.

I think you misunderstood her. What about the Japanese-Americans that were put in internment camps? They had nothing to do with Japan, yet they were still persecuted. Forcing someone to move and keep them in a prison camp sounds like slavery to me.

What about the Europeans who immigrated to the United States? They started with absolutely nothing as well. They were treated unfairly by the laws of the time. The Irish were pretty much used as slaves to clear the swamps in the South. Let's not forget the Chinese railroad workers, and other Asians that were sent back to their countries and mistreated.

So why do African Americans get their month specially recognized? Why doesn't the NAACP fight for the interests of other groups (blacks aren't the only colored people). Why is the race card played so often? Why is it ok for a Negro College Fund to exist, but when a scholarship for caucasians is created, there is an uproar?

Thanks to affirmative action, blacks are getting more than their fair share of opportunity, but still we see complaints of inequality. Have you ever heard the statistic that blacks, as a group, have the lowest average income, but spend the highest percentage of their income on luxury items? There is something horribly wrong if that is true.

[nothing_plus_thi...]

nothing_plus_this, caucsasians are not in the minority.

i know. i corrected myself. we posted at the same time.

and to add to your list of racially charged special treatments: concerning television alone, there are channels dedicated to entire races, award ceremonies, etc. yet, there has to be a balance in all other things including white people when it comes to race. commercials, shows, etc.

and another thing, about affirmative action. i have debated the topic many times. and i still do not understand it completely. i get that it is there to prevent people from refusing to give minorities jobs and whatnot. but, i do not understand the idea of giving underexperienced minority people the jobs over experienced, qualified white people. in situations like that, race should not be the determining factor. it is not only unfair, but i feel that it, in some cases, causes the work being done to suffer. jobs should be awarded because of qualifications and experience, not race. a balance between the races, to prevent predjudice and racism, should be monitored, but that should be the extent of it.

but anyway, honestly? i'm all for communism, anarchism...whatever. just something that promises on paper to insure true equality. kthnx.

disclaimer

i have been through anarchism, communism, democracy, all of it. and have now settled on nihilism mixed with a touch of apathy. so do not take me so seriously, people. i'm just sitting here waiting for someone to blow up the world.

[sillakilla220]

i'll agree with some of wat was said before me. blacks are the highest spenders out of any race and that DOES have something to do with our social standing. but please understand this, when slavery ended there was so much done by whites to keep them poverty-stricken. in fact it was nearly another century b4 segregation laws were overturned. so to say that every race has the same opportunity to succeed is bullshit.


its hard debating any race related issues w/ those of other races tho b/c each person sees it from a different perspective. white ppl commonly think that racial issues have gone away in this country and that is so false that its a dangerous way of thinking. but its like i said before... as wrong as affirmative action or any other pro-black organizations may seem, its been shown in the past that without these things there is blatant racism shown. so technically, without white people's racism there would be no need for these things. and affirmative action is not geared directly toward blacks its toward all minorities.


and there are organizations for education that help fund all kinds of races. if u think there are only pro-black foundations then u are crazy and need to wake the f**k up. and who gives a f**k if theres a black channel?? its not called We-Hate-Whitey-Channel its just a channel to funnel black culture b/c its not seen much on other channels. there are latino channels n shit so wats the difference? there is no need for a white channel b/c much of the tv u see has majority white casts and this is not my own opinion its FACT. and if there was a white channel wat would be on it? b/c there isnt really a clear cut culture for white ppl so i dont even kno wat kinda shit would be on there?

[sadolakced acid]

you're right. little black girls in city schools have been disadvantaged by slavery.

they'd be much better off in darfur being raped by the rebels and the army that's supposted to be protecting them.

[nothing_plus_thi...]

but please understand this, when slavery ended there was so much done by whites to keep them poverty-stricken. in fact it was nearly another century b4 segregation laws were overturned. so to say that every race has the same opportunity to succeed is bullshit.

obviously. since the civil war JUST ended.



no. i'm sorry. what i mean is this. it has been over 150 years since slavery and the civil war ended. so, at this point in time, over 150 years later. the century YOU'RE living in. this day and age. RIGHT NOW. this VERY moment. ...each race officially has almost equal opportunities. YES, there are still some idiotic people out there who are obsessed with how their relatives 150 years were. but...that is not the entire united states. and it is life. there will ALWAYS be people who don't like you! whether it's because of your race or just cause you may be fat! it's LIFE. you can't make everyone think/feel the same way. but, you work with what you have. and you deal. and things eventually change for the better. things don't happen overnight.

also, various religions deal with much worse persecution these days than people of different races. so, people are going to find someone to hate NO MATTER WHAT. and it will NEVER change. and trying to make people compensate for it won't help. it will just lead to more problems. the past should be left in the past and the present should be dealt with accordingly.

and another thing! about the "culture" stuff. that's bullshit. i've never understood it. if people of different ethnicities or nationalities want to be treated the same as "americans", why do they go so far out of their ways to make it known that they are "different" and they deserve special treatment as long as it is exactly the treatment they asked for. i'm not saying that no one deserves the right to embrace the culture of their people. but to push that culture on society as a whole, to make it seem like they are "above someone", "special", "different", etc. is silly to me. it really is.

honestly. i'm going to repeat myself as many times as it takes, no one is better than anyone else. and everyone should be treated like the next person. that is the only way things will change. people need to get over themselves and their opinions.

just pass out the standard beige uniforms and tell me which line to walk in. because i'm only 19 years old and i am already sick to death of hearing about descrimination, racism, injustices, politics, wars, fairness...and just, people and society in general. and it gets more disgusting and unbelievable the more time passes.

This post has been edited by nothing_plus_this: Mar 12 2006, 09:57 PM

[sillakilla220]

you're right. little black girls in city schools have been disadvantaged by slavery.

they'd be much better off in darfur being raped by the rebels and the army that's supposted to be protecting them.

umm... this comment is so ignorant i dont know where to start. in fact im not even sure wat that is supposed to mean because it really has no relevance to what i'm talking about. and no its not that i dont understand the situation in f**kin darfur of all places. gimmie a break, did u just learn sumthin new and wanted to throw it out there to show u kno sumthing??



http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/P...ELPRO/gjp3.html

http://mediafilter.org/MFF/USDCO.idx.html



.... back to the subject tho... nothing_plus_this i think u are very naive. everything u are saying is very idealistic and a lil immature. i can tell you havent had much experience outside of your comfort zone by what you are saying. perfect example is your stance on affirmative action. AA does not mean that some unexperienced worker is going to get the job just b/c they are a different ethnicity. yur crazy... im going to withdraw from this post its too frustrating. its so easy to sit there from the outside and make comments and suggestions of whats so wrong. no one is arguing they are better than anyone else. its never been about superiority. of course there will be the few who think so but u can say that about every race. seriously, i could debate this all day from all angles but its pointless b/c you'll never get it. but please, im beggin you and anyone reading this to study up on COINTELPRO and leave your thoughts about it. to say the past doesnt affect wat is still happening is crazy. did you know that the families of cotton farmers from the early stages of our country are still rich from the empire built off of the earnings made in the slave era? seriously im not making this up. and the slave era is actually about 300 yrs old. so take it as u will just food for thought u do the dishes

[NoSex]

and for those asking "why isnt there white history month?" i will answer that with a few questions of my own...

"how many whites were subjected to such poor standards of living in the early 1900s?"

An outstanding majority of immigrants, of many different races (Including 'whites'). Much of America lived in poverty. Today, according to the US Census Bureau, more whites living in America suffer from poverty than any other race. Exactly 22,184 whites live in poverty today; That is 9.7% of the entire white population . Native Americans, Hispanics, and African Americans have the highest percentage of poverty today. 8,186 (22.9%) blacks live in poverty. 783 (24.5%) native americans. 7,873 (21.9%) hispanics.

I hope that answers your question.

... or "how many whites were hunted down and lynched while crosses burned in their front yards?"...

From 1882 to 1951, 10% of Lynching victims were whites. As 4,733 persons have died from being lynched, that means that 473 white men have been "hunted down and lynched."

I hope that answers your question.

or "how many white leaders were gunned down at the peak of their popularity?" (kennedy's excluded)

I don't see why Kenndy's is excluded? That doesn't seem fair.
I'll say all four assassinated presidents, including Kennedy.
It's a bit of a harder subject to research, and I don't want to start naming of Klan members (Ha!), so I'll leave it at that.

and i'm not gonna quote it but whoever made such a big point of the blacks being freed by a white man should be slapped. yeah i applaud lincoln but it took 16 presidents b4 one of them realized slavery was morally wrong? the fact that there was even slavery in the first place should be the bigger issue rather than who freed them...

I'm sure Lincoln wasn't the first president to realize slavery was "morally wrong". He was just the first man to end the trade in America. And, I bet you would have been damn proud of his weak position on the matter when he was running for office! Can't say too much about those slaves, they make us money! Gotta get votes! Gotta get those votes!

Not to mention, I honestly don't think you understand the scope of slavery and the reality of its trade in colonial America. The slave trade existed long before the English colonized America all over the world, and most importantly, in Africa. Europeans rarely kidnapped slaves, they traded for them from African tribes. African communities, who already had an established slave trade, expanded their business for the prospect of European goods. Young black men would be taken prisoner by their own tribes to be sold to white men for guns, metals, and even sea shells. This was, for some time, part of the Triangular trade. In fact, this trade was ended by the United Kingdom. In, what would be described today as cultural imperialism, a moral outrage, European powers in Africa began to supress the salve trade.

Slavery would continue, through breeding, in the states until the end of the Civil War. And, today, slavery does not exist in most western and eastern societies. However, the most prominent slave economy today can be found in Africa.

Kind of not the picture we usually get, huh?

but to wrap up this lil tirade of mine i will just end it w/ one word.... COINTELPRO... if u are not aware wat this is then google it and get yur learn on cuz its quite interesting and may change the way some of u think

Yeah. We know about it.
So what?
What the hell does that have to do with this?
I mean, sure, they worked to discredit and damage several civil rights movements. However, don't forget that they also fought against racist and nationalist parties such as the Ku Klux Klan, and the American Nazi Party. Also, their actions have been apologized for and ceased. They don't operate any longer. And, how does that validate, in any way, a black history month?

[nothing_plus_thi...]

.... back to the subject tho... nothing_plus_this i think u are very naive. everything u are saying is very idealistic and a lil immature. i can tell you havent had much experience outside of your comfort zone by what you are saying. perfect example is your stance on affirmative action. AA does not mean that some unexperienced worker is going to get the job just b/c they are a different ethnicity. yur crazy... im going to withdraw from this post its too frustrating. its so easy to sit there from the outside and make comments and suggestions of whats so wrong. no one is arguing they are better than anyone else. its never been about superiority. of course there will be the few who think so but u can say that about every race. seriously, i could debate this all day from all angles but its pointless b/c you'll never get it. but please, im beggin you and anyone reading this to study up on COINTELPRO and leave your thoughts about it. to say the past doesnt affect wat is still happening is crazy. did you know that the families of cotton farmers from the early stages of our country are still rich from the empire built off of the earnings made in the slave era? seriously im not making this up. and the slave era is actually about 300 yrs old. so take it as u will just food for thought u do the dishes

uh. yes, yes that does happen with affirmative action. people are so caught up in meeting their QUOTA of MINORITIES that they ignore some very qualified and experienced white people. it's been going on all over the place ever since affirmative action was approved. so don't try and call me naive or ignorant or crazy, mmk? look at what happens at universities, police departments, fire departments, corporations, they gotta fill their QUOTAS!!! and, i'm sorry, but if that isn't degrading to people of colour, i don't know what would be. YOU'RE NOTHING BUT ANOTHER PERSON FILLING THEIR QUOTA. cmon, kid. it's wrong. it's just another form of segration and discrimination disguised as something good. but, apparently it must not matter to minorities because they're getting amazing jobs and educations because of it. but, if it were a quota that had to be filled in sweatshops and fields, you'd be pissed. it's the same old situation, you're getting what you want so you LOVE it. regardless of how wrong or backwards it is.

also, keep in mind that i am a woman. i am considered to be one of the "minorities" included in affirmative action. and i still think it's wrong. if there is a man applying for the same job as me, and he is extremely well qualified and good at it, i will gladly step down and allow him to have the job. regardless of whether i get first dibs on it or not due to affirmative action. because it is the right thing to do. i would not want to be stuck doing a job i'm not the best at while knowing that a man who could have done an amazing job at is is stuck searching for another.

and, if i am at all naive, it is because i live in MAINE. one of the states with the lowest amount of diversity. so, you are absolutely correct when you think i have NO idea what your perspective is like. but, i have had 13 years of a good education and i have been taught many times by people with varying perspectives and opinions. so i have heard almost all of it. which is enough, in my opinion. to form my own opinions on something.

and you wouldn't be thinking about attacking me and calling me crazy if you knew what my father was like. i grew up in a household run by a complete bigot. i have been knocked down to the level of housemaid my entire life because he is sexist and cruel. so i certainly know what it's like to feel lower than people simply because i'm a woman. but, i also hate feminism. AND! i am "sexually confused" which means, i lean towards being a lesbian. can you even imagine what it must be like for me to hear my father talk about faggots and dykes every five minutes while i'm sitting there struggling with the thought of him even having a CLUE as to what i am? yet, i hate people who run around demanding that homosexuals be treated special and be treated with more rights than a heterosexual person. because i believe in equality. i don't believe in dragging men down to an oppressed woman's level so he knows it's like. and i don't believe in condemning heterosexuals so THEY know what it feels like. i just want to be seen as MORE than a bisexual female. because i find it degrading to me as a person. special treatment does NOT help, in my opinion. it simply keeps people at the low level they've been stuck on for their entire lives.

so. for the record. i agree that the United States was formed on the backs and with the sweat and blood of slaves. i know that. i would never take that history away. but, i also agree that it was formed on the backs and with the sweat and blood of native americans and white businessmen and politicians and oppressed women. it is a union of many different people and many different people have died in order for it to be what it is. and there has been so many injustices and so much unfairness it pains me to even think about it. but, i also believe that...as long as these things are brought up and as long as people demand for everyone to repay them for the work people of the past did and treat them special because of it, the country's progress will stand still.

we are different people than those who were here during the slave trade and the civil war. we are the people that those slaves and those oppressed people were hoping and praying for to save them. and we are doing nothing but using them as an excuse to get special treatment and collect rights. we are once again, trying to build a new and better country on their backs and with their blood that was spilled by the tyranical monsters who enslaved them.

please, now tell me if you think all of this arguing and whining is really helping anything. if you think hanging on to the past is really doing any good whatsoever. while you could be out PROVING yourself. fighting the system of white rich men who have love affairs with oil and weapons. so that one day, your future children or relatives will be and to hold their head high and say that you did it on your own without the petty attempts at help and handouts from the government.

yes. i am idealistic. you are absolutely correct. but is it so much worse than being stuck in a past that is littered with murder and oppression? at least i can look to the future and hope for something. and try and figure out ways to make it so people will see themselves as completely equal and see the world as fair and good. and yes, that means TRUE equality. using these definitions:

the quality or state of being equal
&
like for each member of a group, class, or society. regarding or affecting all objects in the same way.

[*CrackedRearView*]

.... back to the subject tho... nothing_plus_this i think u are very naive. everything u are saying is very idealistic and a lil immature. i can tell you havent had much experience outside of your comfort zone by what you are saying. perfect example is your stance on affirmative action. AA does not mean that some unexperienced worker is going to get the job just b/c they are a different ethnicity. yur crazy... im going to withdraw from this post its too frustrating. its so easy to sit there from the outside and make comments and suggestions of whats so wrong. no one is arguing they are better than anyone else. its never been about superiority. of course there will be the few who think so but u can say that about every race. seriously, i could debate this all day from all angles but its pointless b/c you'll never get it. but please, im beggin you and anyone reading this to study up on COINTELPRO and leave your thoughts about it. to say the past doesnt affect wat is still happening is crazy. did you know that the families of cotton farmers from the early stages of our country are still rich from the empire built off of the earnings made in the slave era? seriously im not making this up. and the slave era is actually about 300 yrs old. so take it as u will just food for thought u do the dishes

Just as a pretense...

You need to lose your snooty attitude and show a little respect in this forum when you're replying to people's comments/suggestions. I know you seem to be "gung-ho, go get 'em" about this subject, and that's fine, but don't act like a prick in the process. Slinging around profanity and calling people crazy, naive, and immature is not the way we do things around here, and you're really losing credibility because of it.

First of all, your claim that this country was 'built' on slavery and that many of the riches that the white race commands today are because of the blood and sweat and tears of black slaves is only perhaps 1/25 true. Why? Because so many other factors must be taken into account before you factor slavery into the equation. You're forgetting suffrage with your argument. A chief reason why the white race dominated the economy was because they dominated the vote. This translated directly into economic advantages for white men, in a number of ways. First, they could devise laws that gave them economic privilege, like slavery, or banning women from the workforce. Second, they could vote to spend 100 percent of public funds on themselves. Thus, giving blacks and women the right to vote meant giving them a much larger slice of the economic pie.

You've forgotten that when the white man is in control of the vote, the white man is in control of the laws. However, in 1865 just after the Civil War, the three-fifths clause was rescinded through the 14th and 15th Amendments... "The right... to vote shall not be denied or abridged... on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude." Granted many prejudiced states still kept the vote away from blacks with qualifications such as literacy tests and poll taxes. But right after the Civil War blacks were able to vote in such large numbers that they elected what is still a record of black representatives at the federal, state and local levels. And I'm only going off on this tangent because you're making incorrect, generalized claims.

And when it comes to affirmative action, I support it almost 95% of the time -- especially in the workplace, because there, white males don't lose rights; women and minorities simply gain them. What white males actually lose is unfairly gained money, power and privilege.

In college, however, I believe selection should be based almost exclusively on merit -- and financial status should, of course, be factored in as well. I stand firmly against college selection on the basis of race.

To the issue at hand, however, I agree with much of what you've said. Black history month is a great way to put in perspective the injuries of our past that happened in our country. Sometimes I think we overreact, however. Germany paid a large sum in compensatory damages to the state of Israel after World War II -- and since then, it's almost as if they have a clean slate. Yet here in the States, white people that have never had anything to do with slavery or discrimination get harassed by blacks who, truly, have never been forced into servitude themselves. In my honest opinion, we all just need to shut up about ancient history, maintain black history month to remind ourselves, and move on with our racially integrated lives. The way it was supposed to be.

[*disco infiltrator*]

dude that shit happened in germany take your complaint over there man... did americans put jews in concentration camps? no! so why the f**k would we honor that in our country? slaves were in america and directly affected it, jews is another story... it was a horrible event but that came at the hands of a bunch of *gasp* racially charged white europeans who thought their race was superior. thats a whooooole 'nother topic my man cant help u out w/ that in this thread
and if u can read u [....] i already stated... it doesnt matter if ive never been a slave or if my mother, father, grandparents havent either... every black person born feels the repercussions of slavery growing up... just because its abolished does not mean it plays no part in society today and that is what ppl always assume...
[edited by mona lisa]

So the Africans who are committing genocide against the darker-skinned Africans in Darfur right now are just white on the inside?
And Saddam Hussein, who killed millions of his people for not being of his kind, was just white on the inside?
And the tribesleaders who actually sold their own people to the white people as slaves in the first place were just white on the inside?
And the Jewish people that are white really aren't because they've been discriminated against?

Now I get it! You're absolutely right; the only way any of these events and more could have happened was if these racist people were white on the inside and the ones who were discriminated against were really black on the inside. Duh! It's impossible for anyone who isn't white to be racist and impossible for anyone who isn't black to be discriminated against by those stupid racist white people!

Geez, I should really go get plastic surgery, being inherently a Jew and all. I'm not showing my true colors! People might think I'm racist because I'm not black!

[vash1530]

understand that most of the history taught in your public school IS white history. I do understand ur problem with the black college funds tho. Frankly, almost no one can pay for college and its sad that ppl get an unfair adv. in our capitalist society. Of course, no one is able to ever be equal this world....

[sillakilla220]

i said wouldnt post but i had to say sumthin real quick...

affirmative action is actually losing alot of use around the country. 4 states have already removed it from practice in education and employment. so yeah, i guess wat your sayin is right, in todays age maybe ppl dont have to be forced to consider minorities so its progress.


i called nothing_plus_this to a T





whoever downplayed COINTELPRO is playin themselves... lets see wat u said... quote - "I mean, sure, they worked to discredit and damage several civil rights movements" ... ummm u do realize this was the gov't that was doin this? im not sayin the man is out to get blacks but u dont find it startling that the gov't is infiltrating peace-organizations and makin up lies to get them destroyed?




i dont live in the past i would never let somethin as ridiculous as slavery guide wat i do with my life im just pointin out that we should not forget the past b/c it does still matter. and i dont hate white ppl. my mother is white. i grew up around white ppl. but race issues are always goin to exist in this country whether u think so or not, ignoring them just makes them worse.


and i still dont know wat disco infiltrator is tryin to say youre a f**kin idiot please dont post anymore

[sadolakced acid]

skillkilla, go read a history book.

in addition, you have received a verbal warning for member bashing.

[*kryogenix*]

whoever downplayed COINTELPRO is playin themselves... lets see wat u said... quote - "I mean, sure, they worked to discredit and damage several civil rights movements" ... ummm u do realize this was the gov't that was doin this? im not sayin the man is out to get blacks but u dont find it startling that the gov't is infiltrating peace-organizations and makin up lies to get them destroyed?

1. Peace Organizations? The Black Panthers were not peaceful.
2. The goal of COINTELPRO was not racism. The goal of COINTELPRO was to stop dissidents and prevent violence.

i dont live in the past i would never let somethin as ridiculous as slavery guide wat i do with my life im just pointin out that we should not forget the past b/c it does still matter. and i dont hate white ppl. my mother is white. i grew up around white ppl. but race issues are always goin to exist in this country whether u think so or not, ignoring them just makes them worse.

Great! Let's not ignore that slavery happened. We should never forget mistakes we make, or we'll be doomed to repeat them. But why should black people get special treatment because of it?

and i still dont know wat disco infiltrator is tryin to say youre a f**kin idiot please dont post anymore

I love you say this, yet your posts lack proper spelling, puntuation and capitalization.

[nothing_plus_thi...]

i called nothing_plus_this to a T

uh. sure you did, kiddo. want a cookie?

[sillakilla220]

I'm sorry I did not realize this was English class. If I post like this will it make my points more significant because I appear smarter?


By the way I love all the stats you guys bring up. I could go stat for stat all day and mine will be way more convincing. It really doesn't prove anything though. Here's one for ya... That stat about 473 white people being lynched over a half century was something I did not know. Yet, 300 blacks were killed in one day. Jeez what a discrepancy. How many of you have heard of the Black Holocaust? Maybe some do, maybe some don't. I have no idea of this. If you haven't heard of it however, here's an interesting reading for you. Learn something.


http://www.exodusnews.com/HISTORY/History007.htm



I think your vision of the Black Panthers is a little misconstrued as well. You have to realize that a group of blacks forming together for social advancement in the 60's scared alot of people in our government. In fact, FBI agent Hoover called them "the greatest threat to the internal security of the United States." Honestly, the fact that blacks were not satisfied with social conditions and were finally showing some sort of unity just scared the f**k outta alot of white politicians. I believe this is somewhere when COINTELPRO takes place. Not to mention that perhaps the most peaceful movement aside from Mahtma Ghandi's was a part of their investigation. By this I am referring to Martin Luther King's. Did they pose a violent threat to our national security? Hardly. Also, if what they were doing was Constitutional it wouldnt've been a scandal.



Read a history book? I fail to see what the purpose of this would be. I have never misquoted any historical facts nor have I proposed any arguments that conflict with any actual facts.