College Opportunity Options

[BamBamBoogie]

Should there be a tuition for college? Some say that it discriminates against those who lack opportunities and financial stability. While others say it prepares you for a society where nothing is free. What do you say?

[shoryuken]

skooll 4 fuu

[hypnotique]

I feel you should be accepted into college based on actual talent or gift in the field of study you want to persue.

And then maybe some sort of minimal fee kinda like how it was K-12.
30,000+ a year is bullshit and half the time alums dont even get a job afterwards.

[freeridefight]

I feel you should be accepted into college based on actual talent or gift in the field of study you want to persue.

And then maybe some sort of minimal fee kinda like how it was K-12.
30,000+ a year is bullshit and half the time alums dont even get a job afterwards.

Agreed. Wtf is the point if youre going to require additional training or not even get looked at until you have some experience somewhere.


Thank God my college is 12,000 a year.

[angelle]

If you get into Standford and your family income is less than 150k per year, they'll pay for all of your expenses (:

[-SoDifferent]

It sucks for people if they don't have the money and have to struggle with student loans and all those expenses.

[illriginal]

Education should definitely be free. If they don't want to make schools like Yale and Harvard free, then make city colleges and state universities free

[firechild]

all education should be free (or as close to as possible)
one of my friends can't get into college because he doesn't have the money.
(he was going to go to juliard)

[shoryuken]

alll yall bunchaa DOOCH..

[freeridefight]

alll yall bunchaa DOOCH..

this coming from a guy who looks like Jenny Shimizu in his picture.

[Uronacid]

It cost me 30,000 for college, and it was an investment. I Graduated and I busted my ass to find a JOB. I got one, and I'm happy. It was well worth the investment. I think that many people go to college with the idea that they'll immediately get a job afterward. Let me tell you, if you're not passionate about what you're going to college for then you're wasting your money. f*ck liberal arts.

[brooklyneast05]

if i went for anything other than art, i'd be wasting my money.

[illriginal]

It cost me 30,000 for college, and it was an investment. I Graduated and I busted my ass to find a JOB. I got one, and I'm happy. It was well worth the investment. I think that many people go to college with the idea that they'll immediately get a job afterward. Let me tell you, if you're not passionate about what you're going to college for then you're wasting your money. f*ck liberal arts.

Seriously.. luckily I've always loved computers, well since back when I was 13 years old. Otherwise I'd probably hate the crap I do. And it's true what they say, if you love what you do, then you're really not working. Honestly the jobs I've done have been nothing more to me but getting paid for doing a hobby

[shoryuken]

this coming from a guy who looks like Jenny Shimizu in his picture.

lol nooo evinn cluss NUB..

tryy akkain aarite

stopp lookenn moi PIC n git u handd outta u pant FAAG

[BamBamBoogie]

Just a thought: Do you all think that if college was free people would take it for granted and not try as hard and/or appreciate the education as much as they would have had they been required to pay a tuition?

[illriginal]

Just a thought: Do you all think that if college was free people would take it for granted and not try as hard and/or appreciate the education as much as they would have had they been required to pay a tuition?

If the change was made right now in this very moment? I think every poor person would honestly try their hardest, same with the rich bastages... but ya it really depends. I mean there's countries like Dominican Republic where education is 100% free and the recent generations have been taking advantage of it now that their economy is doing a little better compared to the last decades.


But yes, generally people who actually have to pay for something would try their hardest not to eff up, while people who get it free more than likely would take it for granted over time. It's more on a personal/individual level.

[brooklyneast05]

well, i duno. just a thought but maybe there could be a standard for being free. for instance, i don't sit around that much and think i need to make the money worthwhile, because i'm not really paying much. the school is paying me to be there. so it being my money isn't an incentive for me. however, not losing my scholarship is. so maybe it could be free if you maintain over a certain grade point? then as long as you were willing to work hard, you can get your education with little cost. if you aren't going to work hard and get the grades and go to class, then you can pay for it yourself.

[sixfive]

^deterrence from failure!

[BamBamBoogie]

so maybe it could be free if you maintain over a certain grade point? then as long as you were willing to work hard, you can get your education with little cost. if you aren't going to work hard and get the grades and go to class, then you can pay for it yourself.

Basically you're somewhat agreeing with the current financial system for college, am i correct? You're saying that its free if you have the grades. But that's basically the same as getting a scholarship because you have to maintain a certain GPA to keep it.

[mipadi]

It cost me 30,000 for college, and it was an investment. I Graduated and I busted my ass to find a JOB. I got one, and I'm happy. It was well worth the investment. I think that many people go to college with the idea that they'll immediately get a job afterward. Let me tell you, if you're not passionate about what you're going to college for then you're wasting your money. f*ck liberal arts.

Why the resentment towards liberal arts? Back during the Renaissance, when universities were getting started, liberal arts was the curriculum.

And what if someone's passionate about something in the humanities? Even though my degree's in computer science, I was a lot happier when I was studying English. Somebody's gotta write; somebody's gotta produce art.

[Uronacid]

Why the resentment towards liberal arts? Back during the Renaissance, when universities were getting started, liberal arts was the curriculum.

And what if someone's passionate about something in the humanities? Even though my degree's in computer science, I was a lot happier when I was studying English. Somebody's gotta write; somebody's gotta produce art.

If someone is passionate about something in the humanities that's one thing, however I find that a large percentage of students heading down "libral arts" lane are only doing it because they don't know what to do with themselves. They just aren't passionate about anything.

Seriously.. luckily I've always loved computers, well since back when I was 13 years old. Otherwise I'd probably hate the crap I do. And it's true what they say, if you love what you do, then you're really not working. Honestly the jobs I've done have been nothing more to me but getting paid for doing a hobby

You get what I'm saying. You loved something and made a career out of it. This is exactly what I did. Whether it be humanities, computers, or biology it doesn't matter. You've got to be passionate about what you do. :)

well, i duno. just a thought but maybe there could be a standard for being free. for instance, i don't sit around that much and think i need to make the money worthwhile, because i'm not really paying much. the school is paying me to be there. so it being my money isn't an incentive for me. however, not losing my scholarship is. so maybe it could be free if you maintain over a certain grade point? then as long as you were willing to work hard, you can get your education with little cost. if you aren't going to work hard and get the grades and go to class, then you can pay for it yourself.

I love this idea.

[Superase]

College should be free!
I'm right now at a community college because I can't afford to attend a public four year university.
The prices that you have to pay not just for your class but for your books is crazy!
I live in Georgia now and they've just changed the financial aid (HOPE) that if you did not graduate high school from Georgia you have to wait two years to get any sort of money. Where just a couple of months ago you only had to be here a year. In June I'll be a resident of Georgia and i will not get any money because I graduated in Florida.
So I've had to apply for FAFSA, and hope that i'm poor enough to get a good amount of money to pay for some of my classes.
If college was free do you know how many people would attend...alot. Do you know what that would do to our society...maybe make us smarter.

[Uronacid]

If college was free do you know how many people would attend...alot. Do you know what that would do to our society...maybe make us smarter.

more people attending college != smarter society

[kryogenix]

All education needs to be privatized. Public education is a sinkhole for taxpayer money.

[Uronacid]

All education needs to be privatized. Public education is a sinkhole for taxpayer money.

This makes sense, if they privatized public education then schools would be encouraged to be better. The schooling system wouldn't recieve money based upon the quantity of students. Instead, parents would send their children to a school for quality edjucation and spend their money else-where if their children weren't learning.

[ley]

College being free would help a lot of people out. My parents paid
my tuition for my first major, and after that it has been all me.
I think i work harder knowing that if i dont go to classes im
wasting my own time and money. I think if the goverment did increase financial aid because lets face it college will never be free, then their should be a catch. You should be required to maintain ur grades and finish your degree or suffer some sort of consequence.

[Uronacid]

College being free would help a lot of people out. My parents paid
my tuition for my first major, and after that it has been all me.
I think i work harder knowing that if i dont go to classes im
wasting my own time and money. I think if the goverment did increase financial aid because lets face it college will never be free, then their should be a catch. You should be required to maintain ur grades and finish your degree or suffer some sort of consequence.

That's a good compromise. I believe this is the way it should be.

[batman]

^ ... isn't that just the same idea as a scholarship?

[Uronacid]

^ ... isn't that just the same idea as a scholarship?

no

[kryogenix]

College being free would help a lot of people out. My parents paid
my tuition for my first major, and after that it has been all me.
I think i work harder knowing that if i dont go to classes im
wasting my own time and money. I think if the goverment did increase financial aid because lets face it college will never be free, then their should be a catch. You should be required to maintain ur grades and finish your degree or suffer some sort of consequence.

Impossible. There is no such thing as free tuition. SOMEONE is paying the bill. If not you, then other taxpayers.

How is this fair?

Not to mention, once inner city kids start failing to maintain their grades, people are going to start screaming racism, or that they need more funding... anything as an excuse for their shortcomings.

[batman]

no

tuition money based on maintaining a certain GPA ... sounds like an easy as shit scholarship with no prerequisite.

and i agree with james.

College should be free!
If college was free do you know how many people would attend...alot. Do you know what that would do to our society...maybe make us smarter.

Shitty example, but here goes... if cars were free, you know how many people would go out and get some cars? A lot. Oh wait, but then who's gonna pay for the cost of the cars? Who's gonna make the cars for free?

As horrible as it might sound, education is a commodity. You're paying for the value of your degree.

If college was free, more people would want to attend, but less people would be accepted to cover for costs. The quality of professors, programs, etc will go down. Taxpayer dollars will go up. How is this any better?

[illriginal]

Free education is the way to go

[karmakiller]

^ Free education would be nice, but I don't think any (good) professors would be willing to work for free... and like most people are saying if the person who is attending and directly benefiting from being in college is not paying for it then tax payers will.

[illriginal]

lol Yes it's free to the student but in reality the school and all the employees are funded by the tax payers. I don't mind that at all, heck in fact I wish I was given a list of things that I could choose to pay taxes on, that way I'm supporting the things I want to prosper

[ley]

Impossible. There is no such thing as free tuition. SOMEONE is paying the bill. If not you, then other taxpayers.

How is this fair?

Not to mention, once inner city kids start failing to maintain their grades, people are going to start screaming racism, or that they need more funding... anything as an excuse for their shortcomings.

I believe i did say college will "never" be free, and exactly my point
people blame they're "shortcomings" on others..this is simply unacceptable
they should be held accountable for they're lack of responsibility.

[-DressYourEyelid...]

i'm just going to assume that all of you posting here in this thread are american. i was just wondering what the average tuition fee is for college/university over there.

[ley]

I would have to say on average about an arm and a leg.

[BamBamBoogie]

I would have to say on average about an arm and a leg.

lol

i'm just going to assume that all of you posting here in this thread are american. i was just wondering what the average tuition fee is for college/university over there.

I'd say about $15-$20k/semester on average

[mipadi]

i'm just going to assume that all of you posting here in this thread are american. i was just wondering what the average tuition fee is for college/university over there.

It can vary a lot, based on whether the school is a public, semi-public, or private school. You might be able to go to a public school for as little as $10,000/year; a semi-public school might $15,000-$20,000/year; and a private school can be around $35,000-$50,000/year. This generally includes room & board, too, since most US students live in dorms at schools. At my undergrad institution, a year of school with room & board was about $48,000/year.

But most US students also don't bear that cost themselves. Most get some form of financial aide from the federal and state governments, and from the school itself. For example, I only paid about $8000-$12,000/year to attend college; the rest came from a scholarship given to me by the school. Private schools generally have a much higher ability to award scholarships than public or semi-public schools, since they usually have wealthier alumni donating money to the school.

Finally, there are also community colleges, which are small local schools that some students go to. Those can cost as little as a few thousand dollars a year, but you usually can't get anything above an associate's degree at community colleges. (I don't know if they have associate's degrees in other countries. In the US, an associate's degree represents 2 years of study, a bachelor's degree represents 4 years, a master's degree represents about 6 years, and a doctorate represents anything above about 8 years of study; some doctorate programs take as much as 11 years beyond undergrad in the US.)

As you can see, higher education is very much a business in the US.

[sixfive]

My schooling is somewhere around $22,000/year including room/board. Local community colleges cost about 800/semester, plus another 300 or so for books. Sell them back and you spend a little under $2,000 / year at community college.

[kryogenix]

I believe i did say college will "never" be free, and exactly my point
people blame they're "shortcomings" on others..this is simply unacceptable
they should be held accountable for they're lack of responsibility.

So who's going to hold you accountable for your atrocious command of the english language?

[-DressYourEyelid...]

holy shit. are you f*cking serious?
the average tuition fee for university in canada is $4,524 per year. [mine is about 5,500 per year]
and students across the country are protesting to get the price lowered still :/

[Uronacid]

holy shit. are you f*cking serious?
the average tuition fee for university in canada is $4,524 per year. [mine is about 5,500 per year]
and students across the country are protesting to get the price lowered still :/

LOL, you guys have it easy. Here in NY it's like $10,000 a year.

[batman]

my university is private and costs close to 50k/year. -_-

oh well. opportunities + connections + location... worth it, imo.

[hypnotique]

I miss Ireland

Idk its a struggle for me cause i come from no money nor did my parents save up for me and I have no connections.

But idk im still a fan for more promotion of trade schools and less of the whole "you need a degree to be someone" bullshit.

[-DressYourEyelid...]

But idk im still a fan for more promotion of trade schools and less of the whole "you need a degree to be someone" bullshit.

i agree. degrees and diplomas are overrated. despite having a doctor with diplomas on the walls from the finest medical institutes, he still manages to misdiagnose, be a prick, be a quack, ect, ect.

[batman]

^ You're a complete idiot if you think that having a diploma from a prestigious university makes someone infallible. That comes with the whole "being human" deal. A "doctor" with no diplomas will also manage to misdiagnose, be a prick, etc, etc. And, personally, I feel safer in the hands of somebody with a degree.

[-DressYourEyelid...]

^ You're a complete idiot if you think that having a diploma from a prestigious university makes someone infallible.

i'm confused. i know you're trying to contradict me [somehow], but you're just restating what i said. and no where did i say that i thought having "a diploma from a prestigious university makes someone infallible". in fact, i implied quite the opposite.

[batman]

way to not read the rest of the post.

i'm saying that even though people with degrees sometimes make mistakes, they're far less likely to than someone who doesn't have a degree.

[-DressYourEyelid...]

way to not read the rest of the post.

i'm saying that even though people with degrees sometimes make mistakes, they're far less likely to than someone who doesn't have a degree.

thanks for stating the obvious.
i realize no one is going to go to an uncertified surgeon. wtf?

read my post. maybe you'll realize we both are arguing similar points. all i'm saying is that many doctors, though they've gone through years of medical school, are less qualified than they are made out to be. ---> this is where your point comes in about being "human". if you have a doctor lacking all sense of humanity, he does not belong in the medical profession working with the wellbeings' of others.

[brooklyneast05]

idk it's not that hard to understand. you said degrees are overrated because people still make mistakes despite having them. she said basically that that's irrelevant because degrees never equaled no mistakes to begin with.


either way, i don't see how a degree would be overrated. it makes perfect sense to me why someone would want them and why people hiring would prefer them. 9 times out of 10 i would probably never hire someone just on their good word when i had someone else showing documentation of their study and experience.

[-DressYourEyelid...]

idk it's not that hard to understand. you said degrees are overrated because people still make mistakes despite having them. she said basically that that's irrelevant because degrees never equaled no mistakes to begin with.
either way, i don't see how a degree would be overrated. it makes perfect sense to me why someone would want them and why people hiring would prefer them. 9 times out of 10 i would probably never hire someone just on their good word when i had someone else showing documentation of their study and experience.

i understand, but still, too much value is put on these diplomas and qualifications, and not enough on the people themselves.
i've had a stroke due to the idotic decision of my surgeon, who is beyond "qualified". if he actually had any brains, that would have been avoided, and my wellbeing wouldn't have been put at stake.

[brooklyneast05]

i understand, but still, too much value is put on these diplomas and qualifications, and not enough on the people themselves.
i've had a stroke due to the idotic decision of my surgeon, who is beyond "qualified". if he actually had any brains, that would have been avoided, and my wellbeing wouldn't have been put at stake.

it's impossible to guarantee things like that though.

there's no reason to think that him being qualified caused it or that if he wasn't qualified then wouldn't have made the mistake. there's only two options, you can go to someone who is qualified or you can go to someone who isn't. neither is going to be mistake free, one is just a lot more likely to be. honestly which would you rather pick? that's all it comes down to in the end.

shrugs, i don't know. you're not giving any reason that degrees are overrated other than that people with degrees can make mistakes too, which is a given. i don't think most normal people put value into that to the point that they think degrees mean a person is perfect. but i guess if i thought people actually put that level of value into it, then i'd agree with you that it's too much. it sounds like you personally put too much value in it.

[sixfive]

i understand, but still, too much value is put on these diplomas and qualifications, and not enough on the people themselves.
i've had a stroke due to the idotic decision of my surgeon, who is beyond "qualified". if he actually had any brains, that would have been avoided, and my wellbeing wouldn't have been put at stake.

So how would you go about determining if the person was qualified? What would prove qualifications better than degrees? Experience? How are you going to get hired based on experience if you have no experience? That's where degrees come into play. Also, just having a degree doesn't mean that you were able to learn what you needed to be adequate at your job. It shows that you committed two/four/six/seven/eight years of your life to higher learning and that you can in fact commit to something for more than say, a few months. That's why people with degrees that don't pertain to the job they're applying for can get hired for that job. The degree you have won't tell you how to do that job better no matter how much you learn. Congrats you have a degree in economics, but every company has their own way of doing things, their way of running things. You can be trained.

[batman]

i understand, but still, too much value is put on these diplomas and qualifications, and not enough on the people themselves.
i've had a stroke due to the idotic decision of my surgeon, who is beyond "qualified". if he actually had any brains, that would have been avoided, and my wellbeing wouldn't have been put at stake.

There is never a 100% success rate for an operation, not every decision is guaranteed to be the best one. Doctors with degrees are still bound to make mistakes, but a doctor without a degree might have done something worse. The entire reason there is an emphasis on a degree and where it comes from is because it takes a certain type of person to make it through med school and go through all the education necessary to become specialized in what they do.

I agree that a great doctor is more than just a degree, but having the documentation of making it through all the schooling still makes up his entire foundation. If somebody couldn't even make it through med school and get the proper licensing, I definitely don't want him or her operating on me.

[-DressYourEyelid...]

there is a big difference between a mistake and malpractice.

and with the onset of doctor shortages, it has been proven that many medical schools have passed students that should have otherwise failed. do these so-called doctors deserve or live up to their degrees and certifications? no. in which case, degrees mean everything and nothing at all at the same time.
i realize that it is easier to go with the odds and hire based on schooling, but is it better?

i'm sorry the debate topic was changed entirely. well, not really, this is far too much fun and insightful - it has given me lots to think about and has made my day :D

[batman]

there is a big difference between a mistake and malpractice.

and with the onset of doctor shortages, it has been proven that many medical schools have passed students that should have otherwise failed. do these so-called doctors deserve or live up to their degrees and certifications? no. in which case, degrees mean everything and nothing at all at the same time.
i realize that it is easier to go with the odds and hire based on schooling, but is it better?

Even if this is true and the people with degrees are getting increasingly more incompetent... what does this say about the people who couldn't get their degrees? Even with the standards lowered, it's still a safer bet to go to a doctor who got his/her MD from from a reputable med school.

I'm incredibly biased in the whole "does it really matter where you go to college" issue, since I did work hard all through high school to make it into my first choice. Of course I would hate to think that all that effort was wasted and means absolutely nothing in the long run.

I agree that Ivy Leagues are overrated (and a bit corrupt) on some level, but I don't think that getting a degree at an Ivy is meaningless. It's worth it to graduate from a prestigious university that's known for their selectiveness. It's sort of an instant recognition. People hear "Harvard/Yale/Princeton/etc" and they immediately think "smart" whether you graduated first or last from your class. In addition to the value of the degree you get, when you go to a well-known university, you're also making connections with future congressmen, lawyers, doctors, etc, which opens up tons of opportunities that you might not have had otherwise.

While that degree doesn't make you any better than the next person (i.e. "you need a degree to be somebody" is bullshit since nobody but yourself can tell you what you're worth), I think it's worth it in the sense that it adds prestige to your name. And tbh, with all the work that goes into getting a degree,... it better mean more than just a certificate.

[queen]

^ one of my professors once said, "if you graduate from a 1st tier law school, regardless of whether you're in the top 10 of your class, firms will come to you. if you graduate from a 2nd tier law school, you'll more than likely get a reply of this sort: "why the f*ck did you go to a 2nd tier law school?!""

i know he was exaggerating, but he makes a good point. what school and what degree does matter, to an extent. however, this may be more of an american viewpoint. the ways of canada may be slightly different, correct me if i'm wrong ;o

[ley]

there is a big difference between a mistake and malpractice.

and with the onset of doctor shortages, it has been proven that many medical schools have passed students that should have otherwise failed. do these so-called doctors deserve or live up to their degrees and certifications? no. in which case, degrees mean everything and nothing at all at the same time.
i realize that it is easier to go with the odds and hire based on schooling, but is it better?

i'm sorry the debate topic was changed entirely. well, not really, this is far too much fun and insightful - it has given me lots to think about and has made my day :D

Internship, Residency, Fellowship.<--the reason some doctors get pushed above the bar.
Even some doctors aren't great test takers. This does not mean they will not make good doctors. If they couldn't cut it they would not make it past their intership. Hospitals wont do the same favors for them that schools did. So I really dont think it matters if someones grades were raised a few points.