Gay Marriage, Do you support or oppose? Options

[lemonlina]

I support gay marriage and I'm wondering what all your opinions are.

I live in MA and they just legalized it so isall good. xP

[Spirited Away]

Just to let you know, as soon as one of the moderator sees this topic, he/she will close it because there have been two topics about it already.

[lemonlina]

Whoops, didn't know! O_o I'm new here... so yeah. >_<

[ComradeRed]

I support gay marriage and I'm wondering what all your opinions are.

I live in MA and they just legalized it so isall good. xP

We should abolish marriage altogether...

Marriage is a religious thing, not a civil one.

[Spirited Away]

Whoops, didn't know! O_o I'm new here... so yeah. >_<

It's alright!

It's always good to let your opinion be known.

[Retrogressive]

first of all, religion and state are seprate.. duh bush! if public schools are not allowed to pray or recognize a religion why in the hell is bush using christianity as an argument for gay marriage?? thats ridiculous! second, turn on any reality show like the bachlor or the bachlorette stuff like this is what "ruins" marraige, not two people getting married out of love and respect for each other!!! bush is an idiot... don't get me started :)

[DesperateXMeasur...]

My only opinion on this topic is:
Whatever floats your boat.

I don't know how else to say it.
Just let people do what they want.
If marrying the same sex is what they really want and what makes them happy, Just let them do it.

[Retrogressive]

if everyone had that additude capital murder would be legal!

[Spirited Away]

first of all, religion and state are seprate.. duh bush! if public schools are not allowed to pray or recognize a religion why in the hell is bush using christianity as an argument for gay marriage??

Okay, so I take you're pro gay marriages, fine. But lets leave the Bush bashing in the "does bush sucks" topic. People will argue with you more there.

thats ridiculous! second, turn on any reality show like the bachlor or the bachlorette stuff like this is what "ruins" marraige, not two people getting married out of love and respect for each other!!! bush is an idiot... don't get me started :)

I never liked reality TV shows, they are not as the name implies because there's nothing real about it; it's all an act for fame. What does reality shows have to do with gay marriage? I'm sure some gays enjoy watching it too.

Gay people should not be discriminated, because most (I say most because some people are just soooo faking it to get attention) do not have a choice in their sexual preference, however, legalizing is really a drastic step and all sides must be considered.

[DesperateXMeasur...]

if everyone had that additude capital murder would be legal!

I meant within reason.
Something like marrying the same sex is within reason.

//edit
I didn't mean ridiculous.
I support gay marriages.
I just happened to be sort of mad right now and wrote the wrong thing.
My apologies.

[Retrogressive]

? as ridiculous? im sorry what?

[pikimoo]

My only opinion on this topic is:
Whatever floats your boat.

I don't know how else to say it.
Just let people do what they want.
If marrying the same sex is what they really want and what makes them happy, Just let them do it.

That's what I said on the last one o.O

[Retrogressive]

I never liked reality TV shows, they are not as the name implies because there's nothing real about it; it's all an act for fame. What does reality shows have to do with gay marriage? I'm sure some gays enjoy watching it too.

let me clarify what i was trying to say. people get married and divorced everyday. reailty shows such as that are the ones "ruining" mairiage or what marraige stands for a "sacred promise between a man and a woman" not letting two people who love each other get married is stupid who cares if they are the same sex? thats like having a law against a black person and a white person getting married... stupid isn't it?

Okay, so I take you're pro gay marriages, fine. But lets leave the Bush bashing in the "does bush sucks" topic. People will argue with you more there.

sorry... but it's kinda a free country....

I just happened to be sort of mad right now and wrote the wrong thing

sorry your having a bad day... me to my mom hasn't gotten a job in five months because of bush not signing this one thing... and its sucky.... texas is not a good place to be right now.

[Spirited Away]

let me clarify what i was trying to say. people get married and divorced everyday. reailty shows such as that are the ones "ruining" mairiage or what marraige stands for a "sacred promise between a man and a woman" not letting two people who love each other get married is stupid who cares if they are the same sex? thats like having a law against a black person and a white person getting married... stupid isn't it?

How are the shows ruining marriages? Are you saying that once my straight neighbors watch it, they'll get a divorce?

Okay, you're saying that we should let people who love each other get married or else we would be stupid?

How about this (for those of you who have read this before, just bear with me):

In your point of view, if two people love each other soooo much, they should be able to get married? How about if someone is in love with his/her sister/brother, father/mother, uncle/aunt? I'm talking about incest.

If you agree that regulating marriages is stupid, then are you for incest marriages as well?

Before anyone crack any joke about me being into that stuff, please don't. It's a serious matter that I'm using for an example of this 'anti government' regulation of marriages deal.

[Retrogressive]

first of all your not getting my point at all! reality shows like that our ruining the name of marriage cause the really marry for money, then get divorced... and if that issue ever comes up... well i guess if people feel that strongly in love with their brother or mother or whatever. i guess you should marry who you love, it is a good point. but if you think about it... we are all related some how any way...

[Spirited Away]

first of all your not getting my point at all! reality shows like that our ruining the name of marriage cause the really marry for money, then get divorced... and if that issue ever comes up... well i guess if people feel that strongly in love with their brother or mother or whatever. i guess you should marry who you love, it is a good point. but if you think about it... we are all related some how any way...

I am getting your point perfectly, but I was trying to ask you how realistic is it that 'reality shows are ruining marriages'. It gives marriages a bad name for sure (that's why I don't like them), but things on TV do not necessarily reflect things in real life.

And it's not ruining anything that's not already happening. As in, people marry for money and divorce everyday, it's nothing new. The public only watches those things for drama, that's all. Nothing new.

You're the first to agree to incest marriage so far (as I've made this arguement a while ago and some were adamently against it). I applaud you for it.

Incest isn't just between people who are related, it is between people who are immediate relatives. If you're for it, then I really have nothing else to say... hehe.

I'm just making a point that if the government do not set regulations on marriages, there will be people, albeit a few, who will want to marry their immediate relatives.

Rules and regulations are there for a reason.

[Retrogressive]

Rules and regulations are there for a reason.

some may argue to be broken.

this is the land of the free. we should be free to love whomever we want.

my arguement about reality tv shows is based on bushs arguement that gay marriage abolishes the eh... whatever "name of marraige" or "sacred blahbidyblahblah" (sorry im sleepy) you have heard it im sure. im restating that IF, people marry for such stuff and that DOESN'T "blasphimy marriage" but IF two people actually LOVE EACH OTHER it does "blasphimy marriage"

sex could be compared to race. no body is telling mexicans to not marry blacks??? so why are we making a huge deal of a man wanting to marry a man? its their life? why should we tell them what to do? why is it our business? they live with each other anyway! so what if they have a peice of paper with their names on it? and a couple of rights for each other such as making medical descisions?

[Spirited Away]

Rules and regulations are there for a reason.

some may argue to be broken.

this is the land of the free. we should be free to love whomever we want.

my arguement about reality tv shows is based on bushs arguement that gay marriage abolishes the eh... whatever "name of marraige" or "sacred blahbidyblahblah" (sorry im sleepy) you have heard it im sure. im restating that IF, people marry for such stuff and that DOESN'T "blasphimy marriage" but IF two people actually LOVE EACH OTHER it does "blasphimy marriage"

sex could be compared to race. no body is telling mexicans to not marry blacks??? so why are we making a huge deal of a man wanting to marry a man? its their life? why should we tell them what to do? why is it our business? they live with each other anyway! so what if they have a peice of paper with their names on it? and a couple of rights for each other such as making medical descisions?

Rules may be broken on the basis that it is a bad rule.

It may be the land of the free, but if your freedom tramples on mine, then there would be a problem. For example, you cannot yell 'high jack' on an airplane then giggle and arm yourself with freedom of speech without getting in trouble.

I agree that people should be able to love whomever they want, I have no qualms with that. However, to legalize marriage between man and man or woman to woman is matter that affects society as a whole.

Loving is their own business, but when marriage is in question, there are already laws about it, laws that everyone must abide. Legalizing their marriage is a societal problem, not a personal one.

[Retrogressive]

Rules may be broken on the basis that it is a bad rule.

It may be the land of the free, but if your freedom tramples on mine, then there would be a problem. For example, you cannot yell 'high jack' on an airplane then giggle and arm yourself with freedom of speech without getting in trouble.

I agree that people should be able to love whomever they want, I have no qualms with that. However, to legalize marriage between man and man or woman to woman is matter that affects society as a whole.

Loving is their own business, but when marriage is in question, there are already laws about it, laws that everyone must abide. Legalizing their marriage is a societal problem, not a personal one.

bleh. okay, how can two people married effect your rights as an american citizien? thay aren't going to start knocking on your door (like some RELIGIOUS groups)

the fact that only man can marry woman is only based on a christian way of thinking in the government, which (bleh) brings me back to church and state being seprate. stuff effects society as a whole every generation.

let me start my arguement about races... again. there was a time when people disagreed that a black man could marry a white woman... or for that fact they should even be in the same buildings together... are you agianst differnt races getting married? or are you just against homosexuality.

the simple "man" seems almost threatined just like in the days of slavery and equal rights for women, we seemed to be threatened by stuff that goes against the "common mans" religion or belief system that has even killed people for such closed minded veiws.

[Spirited Away]

bleh. okay, how can two people married effect your rights as an american citizien? thay aren't going to start knocking on your door (like some RELIGIOUS groups)

It certainly would affect society as a whole.

Marriage will lead to children. They would have the ability to adopt children and those children will not have a choice in who adopts them. Adoptive children often do not have a choice in choosing their parents, especially infants.

Those children will grow up with in a household that's not like the norm. They will be estranged, to some extent, by others but they are innocent because their rights to live a normal life was taken away by others.

the fact that only man can marry woman is only based on a christian way of thinking in the government, which (bleh) brings me back to church and state being seprate. stuff effects society as a whole every generation.

Not ONLY is it based on Christian ways of thinking, but also for many other people as well. I'm NOT a Christian, but this situation is rather upsetting for Christians and non-Christians alike. Religion has little to do with it, in my opinion.

let me start my arguement about races... again. there was a time when people disagreed that a black man could marry a white woman... or for that fact they should even be in the same buildings together... are you agianst differnt races getting married? or are you just against homosexuality.

I think now it is you who are not getting my point. Let me make everything clear, I do not have a problem with gay people, but I have a problem with legalizing their marriages. I certainly do not have a problem with interracial marriages because I plan on doing that myself.

How does interracial relationships fit into this? A person can be against one topic and support another.

the simple "man" seems almost threatined just like in the days of slavery and equal rights for women, we seemed to be threatened by stuff that goes against the "common mans" religion or belief system that has even killed people for such closed minded veiws.

But homosexuals wouldn't be considered very common, let alone be called as a 'common man'. If they should belong in that category, then there wouldn't be this controversy in the first place.

How is disagreeing to gay marriage being close minded? What if I asked you to believe in something you cannot even imagine? Can I call you close-minded then?

[onenonly101]

My only opinion on this topic is:
Whatever floats your boat.

I don't know how else to say it.
Just let people do what they want.
If marrying the same sex is what they really want and what makes them happy, Just let them do it.

what ever floats your boat? That attitude has gotten America's crime where it is today. We could let alot of people do what they want and have alot of dead abused people on our hands.

You can tell I'm against gay marriages. One because of my religion. 2. because if we let this pass it will open a gateway to other problems. Like in some states it is against the law to marry your sibling. Since under the whatever floats your boat and if they love that person, they should be able to marry them. Also it would bring up age differences in marriage such as a 14 marrying a 25+ yearold. Then we come to the issue who is to say what is wrong or right and the government shouldn't be in my life so much

[*krnxswat*]

Just to let you know, as soon as one of the moderator sees this topic, he/she will close it because there have been two topics about it already.

Weeee. No worries. I'll let this one slide.

[WildGriffin]

There's only like...3 pages of debate topics. Shouldn't be too hard to turn up one of the older debates.

Only thing worse then an endless debate(the old one) is one that keeps getting reposted.

[juliar]

first of all, religion and state are seprate.. duh bush! if public schools are not allowed to pray or recognize a religion why in the hell is bush using christianity as an argument for gay marriage?? thats ridiculous! second, turn on any reality show like the bachlor or the bachlorette stuff like this is what "ruins" marraige, not two people getting married out of love and respect for each other!!! bush is an idiot... don't get me started :)

Because it would offend many Christians and not get him re-elected.

Anyway, they should be able to do what they want. They're people too. Treat them like people who have the same rights as others, and then they will be accepted socially too.

[machinoman]

In your point of view, if two people love each other soooo much, they should be able to get married? How about if someone is in love with his/her sister/brother, father/mother, uncle/aunt? I'm talking about incest.

marraige between family members does not mean they will have sex for children. interfamily marraige should be legal, but their having sex is kind of messed up, because they are putting a potential child at physical risk, so that should be illegal. right now its the other way around legally.

Those children will grow up with in a household that's not like the norm. They will be estranged, to some extent, by others but they are innocent because their rights to live a normal life was taken away by others.

They wouldn't be estranged by me, or any other open-minded people, any more than any ethnic groups are estranged. And the blame for that is not on the gay parents, but rather on the estrangees, who judge everyone for being differant.

because if we let this pass it will open a gateway to other problems. Like in some states it is against the law to marry your sibling. Since under the whatever floats your boat and if they love that person, they should be able to marry them. Also it would bring up age differences in marriage such as a 14 marrying a 25+ yearold. Then we come to the issue who is to say what is wrong or right and the government shouldn't be in my life so much

in all states it is against the law. but it shouldn't be. also, marrying a minor will never be legal, as minors aren't considered self-supported enough to make their own decisions. also, please dont call gay marraige and other marrages problems. they are more like 'sins'. as in, a figment of your imagination.

[Spirited Away]

marraige between family members does not mean they will have sex for children. interfamily marraige should be legal, but their having sex is kind of messed up, because they are putting a potential child at physical risk, so that should be illegal. right now its the other way around legally.

But I'm not trying to condone incest marriages, I'm trying to explain to those who says government should not regulate how people should "love", that if gays can marry, then other groups should be able to as well. What if they know the consequences of having a child, therefore they do not have one at all, they only want to make their love legal, the same way that gays want.

They wouldn't be estranged by me, or any other open-minded people, any more than any ethnic groups are estranged. And the blame for that is not on the gay parents, but rather on the estrangees, who judge everyone for being differant.

Nor would the children be estranged by me. However, do you think that this world is full of people as open minded as yourself? Children will be children, and many children are cruel, I would know. It needn't be an adult who'll estrange children of gay marriages, it could be their own peers that will taunt them or isolate them for something out of their control.

[machinoman]

But I'm not trying to condone incest marriages, I'm trying to explain to those who says government should not regulate how people should "love", that if gays can marry, then other groups should be able to as well. What if they know the consequences of having a child, therefore they do not have one at all, they only want to make their love legal, the same way that gays want.

I believe they should be legal in those circumstances.

Nor would the children be estranged by me. However, do you think that this world is full of people as open minded as yourself? Children will be children, and many children are cruel, I would know. It needn't be an adult who'll estrange children of gay marriages, it could be their own peers that will taunt them or isolate them for something out of their control.

Children are taunted for having fat parents; That doesn't mean we should make fat marriage illegal. Although...

[Spirited Away]

I believe they should be legal in those circumstances.

And I believe that should never be legal..... *shudders*.

Children are taunted for having fat parents; That doesn't mean we should make fat marriage illegal. Although...

Firstly... HAHA

But those children are born to those parents biologically, but in the case with gay marriages, these children are adopted and they live in a not so normal household and they don't have much of a choice even though these 'parents' are not related to them in any way.

I only pity that they must go through a 'not so normal' life style for being innocently adopted. However, if/when gay marriage is legalized, I think it'll takes years for people to get used to the idea, but I suppose decades from now, things like this wouldn't be so abnormal anymore.

[machinoman]

And I believe that should never be legal..... *shudders*.



Firstly... HAHA 

But those children are born to those parents biologically, but in the case with gay marriages, these children are adopted and they live in a not so normal household and they don't have much of a choice even though these 'parents' are not related to them in any way.

I only pity that they must go through a 'not so normal' life style for being innocently adopted. However, if/when gay marriage is legalized, I think it'll takes years for people to get used to the idea, but I suppose decades from now, things like this wouldn't be so abnormal anymore.

for the first part, I think it is gross too. but that is insignificant.

for the second, if gay marriage isn't legalized, there will never be such acceptance, and the only way for gays to have children would be to marry someone they don't love, this is common nowadays. everyone should be allowed to have children.

[Spirited Away]

for the first part, I shudder as well. but that is insignificant.

I'm glad we could agree there... *whew*.

for the second, if gay marriage isn't legalized, there will never be such acceptance, and the only way for gays to have children would be to marry someone they don't love, this is common nowadays. everyone should be allowed to have children.

If one is truly gay, I don't think he/she could marry someone of the opposite sex, he/she would be against it for the most part.

I won't lie, the main reason I'm against this whole thing is that I cannot envision man and man/woman and woman, walking down the marriage ailse. There's something in me that thinks 'it's just not right'. I guess I am pretty close minded when it comes to things that are so radical in my opinion.

[machinoman]

thats fair. good debate!

[JessJR1022]

I don't think that gay marriages should be legalized at all... think about it....if a woman and a woman or a man and a man were meant to be together, they would fit better together. OUr bodies are the way they are for a reason....jus tmy thouhgts anyways

[Spirited Away]

thats fair. good debate!

glad you think so

I think I might get flamed though for saying it that way. oh well

[Retrogressive]

but see you are veiwing this as what you see "normal" as being!!! children are raised in acohlic families, in abusive families, in terrible families!! how can two people who will love a child and teach them tolerance a bad house to grow up in? how can having to loving parents teach a child peace and equality a bad thing for america???

[Spirited Away]

but see you are veiwing this as what you see "normal" as being!!! children are raised in acohlic families, in abusive families, in terrible families!! how can two people who will love a child and teach them tolerance a bad house to grow up in? how can having to loving parents teach a child peace and equality a bad thing for america???

How can you be certain that these parents will teach these children that?

Who's to say that gays never get drunk? Who's to say that gays never get violent?

[Retrogressive]

haha now your comparing them to regular people? dear lord! i

m saying gay people just want equality, they have to suffer more for that kind of crap so why would they be a bad parent? im sure there might be a bad gay parent, but the worst they could do is teach equality and love their children. whats so wrong with that? then one day maybe these lessons can teach us to hate people for who they are unstead of how they look and if they are "gay"

[Spirited Away]

haha now your comparing them to regular people? dear lord! i

m saying gay people just want equality, they have to suffer more for that kind of crap so why would they be a bad parent? im sure there might be a bad gay parent, but the worst they could do is teach equality and love their children. whats so wrong with that? then one day maybe these lessons can teach us to hate people for who they are unstead of how they look and if they are "gay"

Erm, they want equality right? So what's they problem if I'm equaly comparing them to normal people?

Back then women cannot be compared to men, women had to prove their worth in society to be accepted as 'equals', but even now the still face inequality in the job scene.

If gay people wants equality, they better fight for it. They must prove their worth to this society as women and other minorities had before them.

Who said this was going to be easy? Pfft.

Feh, so you're saying that you're sure gay parents will not abuse their children, nor will they get drunk and violent. Are you also saying that they're better than normal parents? Do you have proof of this? Do you actually live in all their homes and see for yourself how they treat their children?

[Retrogressive]

first of all its called sarcasm secoundly anyone in their right mind wouldn't go through all the adoption crap and the resentment for being gay just to hate the child they adopted.... unless they were idiots.

so your saying that they have to PROVE that they are worth being treated equally thats ludacris!! no one should have to PROVE to be treated equally thats the exact additude most americans have. they should be treated equally, not have to fight for their right to be treated equally this is america not some middle eastern country who believes in beating women and treating only certain people properly.

and why shouldn't it be easy? the fact that america isn't going to let this be "easy" is so disturbing, why should we fight as a united country that stands for freedom for the same crap that most people have been fighting for since this country was founded? are we not moving forward? just still in our close minded views on whats "right" only according to some people.

and what was that post of comparing me to someone as close minded? i didn't quite understand what you were saying.

[Spirited Away]

first of all its called sarcasm secoundly anyone in their right mind wouldn't go through all the adoption crap and the resentment for being gay just to hate the child they adopted.... unless they were idiots.

I'm sorry, I'm kind of slow on the sarcasm bit. I have to work on mine.

You would be surprised at what people would go through to adopt, and then to throw all that hard work away. No one's perfect. Are you saying that gays are so perfect that they won't ever turn a bad hand in raising their children?

so your saying that they have to PROVE that they are worth being treated equally thats ludacris!! no one should have to PROVE to be treated equally thats the exact additude most americans have. they should be treated equally, not have to fight for their right to be treated equally this is america not some middle eastern country who believes in beating women and treating only certain people properly.

SO you're saying that everything in the world should come easily. Why, we could just sit in one place and world peace will automatically work itself out? Martin Luther King didn't have to do all those speeches and neither did Susan B. Anthony, they just wasted their time because the whole world's so open minded.

Personally, because of the fact that I, and so many others, are closed minded about gay marriages, it's up to them to prove us wrong. That's what I meant by proving their worth. Others have trodden on the same path to find freedom, why are gays be so special that we must hand everything to them on a silver platter?

and why shouldn't it be easy? the fact that america isn't going to let this be "easy" is so disturbing, why should we fight as a united country that stands for freedom

While you find my opinions disturbing, I find that legalizing gay marriages is disturbing.

If this country was purely about freedom, then we wouldn't need a government. We would all be anarchists. I'm almost positive that the founding fathers would never have thought that this generation would take the word "freedom" to a whole new level.

and what was that post of comparing me to someone as close minded? i didn't quite understand what you were saying.

I believe I called myself close minded just a couple of posts ago. Do excuse me for not understanding what you're talking about.

[Retrogressive]

no no no. im not saying that at all. gays shouldn't be "handed the silver platter" because they are gay im saying that all of this stuff, womens rights, black ineqaulity, everything should have been repected enough within our own people instead of going through the same thing that is dividing this country. we should learn from our mistakes instead of just go through the same thing every generation!! its aweful that we haven't learned to execpt each other though we have been learning the same lesson. though our country was based on us being ridiculed and moked because we were differnt... and so on.

and i know not all gay people are kind compassionate parents. but why tell a parentless child that they may never have a chance of adoption and they will eventually land on the streets then just letting them have a family who loves them who provides for them.

there is no issue on children. since when has bush been concerened with children? since when has anyone lately its only because people don't want other people to be happy... or at least that's what i am seeing.

children have gay parents in america already, what if a woman decided to have a child with a man who was her friend and she was a lesbian? and she had discussed with the man that she would be raising the child with her partner and he agreed. what is america going to take that baby away from his or her mother???

[Spirited Away]

no no no. im not saying that at all. gays shouldn't be "handed the silver platter" because they are gay im saying that all of this stuff, womens rights, black ineqaulity, everything should have been repected enough within our own people instead of going through the same thing that is dividing this country. we should learn from our mistakes instead of just go through the same thing every generation!! its aweful that we haven't learned to execpt each other though we have been learning the same lesson. though our country was based on us being ridiculed and moked because we were differnt... and so on.

But since when are human so receptive in 'not making the same mistake twice'? If everyone were to agree to that, then we wouldn't be having this conversation .

By saying that we should just legalize it without qualm is basically "handing them everything on a silver platter" (forks and knives too). If things were that easy, then all sorts of groups would want to legalize their union: incest, 40 yr old adults and 10 year old kids, teachers and students... etc.

and i know not all gay people are kind compassionate parents. but why tell a parentless child that they may never have a chance of adoption and they will eventually land on the streets then just letting them have a family who loves them who provides for them.

But it depends on whether or not that child have the mentality or will that it takes to live with parents who are not so normal. Some children may not mind at first, but what do children know about cruelty until they face it themselves? An older child may decide that he/she can live with these parents, but how can an infant let that be known? We would subject a child to a life of taunts and isolation by his/her own peers.

there is no issue on children. since when has bush been concerened with children? since when has anyone lately its only because people don't want other people to be happy... or at least that's what i am seeing.

Even if Bush is not concerned with children doesn't mean that society has forsaken them. So you're saying that people like me do not want to see others happy? What about yourself? Do you not want these children to be happy? How do you know they can stand up to it?

children have gay parents in america already, what if a woman decided to have a child with a man who was her friend and she was a lesbian? and she had discussed with the man that she would be raising the child with her partner and he agreed. what is america going to take that baby away from his or her mother???

True, I'm in a work environment where I'm aware of the fact that gay couples have children in their custody. We wouldn't have a right to take away that baby, but if you care so much about someone's happiness, why do you not consider that happiness of this child? What if the child wanted to live in a normal household, with his/her biological father?

[Retrogressive]

of course your deffinition of normal must be right? you can't use that arguement because not child is asked to be born into an abuse family, into no family, into slavery, into a rich family, into a poor family, into a family where the father has died. see? its not like where are putting children into the holocaust! no one is asked to be born in certain situations. or to have a family that is a little quirky.

[Spirited Away]

of course your deffinition of normal must be right? you can't use that arguement because not child is asked to be born into an abuse family, into no family, into slavery, into a rich family, into a poor family, into a family where the father has died. see? its not like where are putting children into the holocaust! no one is asked to be born in certain situations. or to have a family that is a little quirky.

So just because 'no one is asked to be born in certain situations' means that we have no right to interfere with their lives? What if we can prevent them from having to go through that suffering? I certainly would want to prevent it before it happens.

Normal doesn't necessarily means right either. After all, I don't think Galileo was considered to be 'normal' in his era. But like I've told Machinoman before, I can't help but to find a man and man/woman and woman walking down the marriage ailse disturbing, and I'm positive that I'm not alone in feeling that way. Legalizing gay marriage may not be so abnormal for me years from now, but presently, this is just how I, and many others feel.

Edit:: Nice chatting with you, but I have to sleep. Goodnight.

[Retrogressive]

why isn' t anyone interfering with everyone else lives to make them normal then? because everyone is threatened by this "new" (which dates back to the romans long long ago) homosexual lifestyle.

we are threatened by what isn't safe by what isn't "normal"

im sorry you feel that way :) maybe one day you will feel differntly maybe you won't. but its not up to us to decide who should be happy and who shouldn't that's dictatorship and that isn't america :)

ditto, nice debating see you soon :) (zzzzzzzz)

[Spirited Away]

why isn' t anyone interfering with everyone else lives to make them normal then? because everyone is threatened by this "new" (which dates back to the romans long long ago) homosexual lifestyle.

If you mean for children, we already are trying do it. We have social services come to pick up an abused child.

I can understand that homosexuality isn't anything new, but legalizing their union is very new. And anything that's new, and shocking will need to have some time for people adjusting to it. Though, I don't think the majority of the population will 'get over it' so quickly.

we are threatened by what isn't safe by what isn't "normal"

Each and everyone of us has a right to be hesitant about anything out of the ordinary, that's how humans have been surviving since the begining. We do not embrace every new concept with open arms.

im sorry you feel that way :) maybe one day you will feel differntly maybe you won't. but its not up to us to decide who should be happy and who shouldn't that's dictatorship and that isn't america :)

Maybe. America would still be a long way off of being a dictatorship, even if she denies gay marriage.

ditto, nice debating see you soon :) (zzzzzzzz)  

Good morning....

[WildGriffin]

I can understand that homosexuality isn't anything new, but legalizing their union is very new. And anything that's new, and shocking will need to have some time for people adjusting to it. Though, I don't think the majority of the population will 'get over it' so quickly.

Take that whole "non-whites are just as equal" shtick. Some people still have a hard time with that, and its been like...a while. *mumble* stupid redneck imbreds.

Denying gay marriage is a waste of time. There's no real harm in it, and it only serves to show how backwards America really is.

We feign understaning, "freedom", and open-mindedness. Truth is alot of other countries have gotten over the whole race/gay thing, and we're just lagging behind. My guess, too many redneck conservatives in power.

[Spirited Away]

Take that whole "non-whites are just as equal" shtick. Some people still have a hard time with that, and its been like...a while. *mumble* stupid redneck imbreds.

Denying gay marriage is a waste of time. There's no real harm in it, and it only serves to show how backwards America really is.

We feign understaning, "freedom", and open-mindedness. Truth is alot of other countries have gotten over the whole race/gay thing, and we're just lagging behind. My guess, too many redneck conservatives in power.

I'm not a red neck nor am I Christian, but I can't stand seeing straight people making out in front of me (I would consider it obnoxiously rude), let alone man and man/woman and woman smooching.

Anyway, I'll come back to this later... must work.

[WildGriffin]

Anyway, I'll come back to this later... must work.

Psssh, college kids and their "work". Thank god I have another year before those horrid times.

[kantoaznboi]

i cant believe that this topic is even being debated on or y it should be even question if gays, lesbians should be able 2 marry. y do we continue 2 discriminate gays and lesbians by not letting them marry. i cant believe that ppl have a stick in the ass just cause of the meaning of the word, marry. they say its a union between a man and a women, y not change it 2 a union between 2 ppl who share a common bond. i mean, come on now. gahhh ppl can be so ignorant.

just let them marry

[WildGriffin]

i cant believe that this topic is even being debated on or y it should be even question if gays, lesbians should be able 2 marry. y do we continue 2 discriminate gays and lesbians by not letting them marry. i cant believe that ppl have a stick in the ass just cause of the meaning of the word, marry. they say its a union between a man and a women, y not change it 2 a union between 2 ppl who share a common bond. i mean, come on now. gahhh ppl can be so ignorant.

just let them marry

Seriously, this day and age; you'd think stupid things like this wouldn't even be an issue.

[lemonlina]

Weeee. No worries. I'll let this one slide.

Lolx, thanks? xD

[Got Shibby?]

I personally, think that gay marriages should not be outlawed. You can't help who you love. Why should the government be able to tell anyone who they are allowed or not allowed to date. They already control out lives to an extent, why should they be allowed to control it even more? They shouldn't. I also believe this with inter-racial dating, incest, and age gapped relationships. While some of us may not agree with it, who's to say it affects us? Who's to say we have the right to control them?

[LiNHy POO]

i support it 100%!!!! ppl should be able to choose their partners!! of any race or gender!

[LatinaLady]

Whoops, didn't know! O_o I'm new here... so yeah. >_<

thats why you should have gone back and seenif there was a topic on this already,

[Spirited Away]

I didn't noticed and didn't mind, until now.

Why must people who are against gay marriages be 'ignorant' or 'closed-minded'?!? Just like you can't FORCE a person to accept religion, you can't force someone to accept gay marriages. To many, it is a relatively moral decision to be against it.

There's nothing ignorant about not agreeing with an idea! Do you people even know what ignorant means? Lets see you try to accept something you don't like! At least I'm not protesting, yelling/screaming against them or anything. I'm just expressing my opinion that it is not seemly for someone like me.... Pffft, and that makes me ignorant.

Anyway, I had to get that out of my system. Anyone care to debate why not accepting gay marriages would make me ignorant?
Bring it on!

[bird_of_prey]

separation of church and state...I don't think the government should decide, it should be the church's decision. I think we should allow civil unions. people deserve equal rights.

[Spirited Away]

What does the Church has to do with anything?

I'm NON Christian and I'm still somberly agaisnt it.

[bird_of_prey]

marriage is defined by the church. it is a religious thing constructed by the church.

a civil union has all the same benefits but witout the religious connotation.

taht is why the govornment should not outlaw gay marriage. it is for each church to decide.

and i guess it just depends on what we think is normal. what is normal in one culture may be completely taboo in another and vice-versa.

If things were that easy, then all sorts of groups would want to legalize their union: incest, 40 yr old adults and 10 year old kids, teachers and students... etc.

Unions between adults and children will never and should never be justified because their is an imbalance of power between the partners. Also, teacher students relationships are not good because there is a severe imbalance of power. According to law in most states children under 18 are not able to legally consent.

A union or relationship between 2 adults of the opposite sex that is consenual is completely different than the examples you gave..

[Spirited Away]

Okay, they may be an 'imbalance of power' but they still want to love. What's the problem with loving your teacher as opposed to a man and man loving? I think that's an imbalance of morals.

The Church only decides on marriages to those who come to the Church for marriage. OTHER CULTURES marry in different ways. Do you think that everyone must go to a Church to be man and wife?

[lovebabygonebad]

Just to let you know, as soon as one of the moderator sees this topic, he/she will close it because there have been two topics about it already.

I guess they didn't close it, huh?

well I support it PRO-CHOICE KICKS BUTT

[douglas1net]

i dont really care if gay ppl get married...it doesnt affect me...as long as some gay dude doesnt come up to me and do something weird then i'm fine with it...

[bebebasa89]

gay marriages wow....i just want them to realize its wrong...no one was born gay....i`m not just against gay marriages i`m against homosexuals..call me closedminded or whatever you want...but that`s wats great about this counrty people can freely be gay and i can be freely against it...

[*xcaitlinx*]

gay marriages wow....i just want them to realize its wrong...no one was born gay....i`m not just against gay marriages i`m against homosexuals..call me closedminded or whatever you want...but that`s wats great about this counrty people can freely be gay and i can be freely against it...

wow. you make no sense whatsoever. at the very least, support your opinion with actual reasoning. i will call you closedminded. because you are. how is being gay wrong? And how are you against homosexuals? You say it as if they are aliens or something. Have you ever even talked to a person that is gay? Maybe if you get out of your sheltered life, then you'll realize that gay people are just like straight people.

[bebebasa89]

wow. you make no sense whatsoever. at the very least, support your opinion with actual reasoning. i will call you closedminded. because you are. how is being gay wrong? And how are you against homosexuals? You say it as if they are aliens or something. Have you ever even talked to a person that is gay? Maybe if you get out of your sheltered life, then you'll realize that gay people are just like straight people. 

yes i do know many gay people but they are not my friends being gay is wrong because the bible says it is period. yes i`m christian no i`m not forcing my religion on you. but i am against homosexuals. how are gay people just like straight people? obviously they aren't....yes people are people but if you`re gay you arent "just like" a straight person....

[Teesa]

^you're against it because the bible says it's wrong? Or are you just against it because of what you personally feel about homosexuals?
I am absolutely for gay marriage.
The government has no right to say who you can love. It's not hurting anyone!! You can look down upon it, but it should definitely be allowed.

[nevernothere]

*sighs* Call me whatever you'd like, but I don't support it. It's just unnatural.

[bebebasa89]

*sighs* Call me whatever you'd like, but I don't support it. It's just unnatural.

nice....i'm against it because it's wrong according to the bible....

[Teesa]

*sighs* Call me whatever you'd like, but I don't support it. It's just unnatural.

can you please explain how it's unnatural?

[sammi rules you]

hormones aren't natural things?
ok, then can you please reteach the whole world to me through your view, then?

[perfectxflaw23]

I support. The only way I can explain it is that it's only fair. If you're in love, you should have the same rights as everyone else. I think it's beautiful to see two people love eachother (not like that, just see them together.. you can just tell), whether they be man and woman, man and man, or woman and woman.

[Spirited Away]

I guess they didn't close it, huh?

well I support it PRO-CHOICE KICKS BUTT

I don't even know why I feel compelled to explain myself to you. I wasn't a mod then and couldn't have closed it and not that many mods frequent this forum then, but I will find the original topic and merge it if you want, your Highness.

[YourSuperior]

I don't support stuff that you can go to hell for when you die.

[Spirited Away]

I don't support stuff that you can go to hell for when you die.

This is the debate forum, so debate. Better yet, read the RULES before posting or else your warning levels will be raised.

In fact, this is your warning before I raise your warning level.

[sammi rules you]

why not, mr. alvin? why do you care if people you don't know go to hell?

that's right, fae, crack down on em.

[pandamonium]

*sighs* Call me whatever you'd like, but I don't support it. It's just unnatural.

good come back.. you know you are gunna gain a lot of attention with that kind of statement. this is the debate section please dont just throw random thoughts out there without even debating what you think you are just a waste of space if you do that.

nice....i'm against  it because it's wrong according to the bible....

we as humans arent perfect there fore are made to make mistakes. the bible says a lot of things and although the bible says that homosexuality is wrong it also says to accept people.......

I didn't noticed and didn't mind, until now.

Why must people who are against gay marriages be 'ignorant' or 'closed-minded'?!? Just like you can't FORCE a person to accept religion, you can't force someone to accept gay marriages. To many, it is a relatively moral decision to be against it.

yes people do tend to throw around the word ignorant but being close minded yes... because gay people are also people they have mouths two ears and two eyes just like any other person, but you should also consider they love too they just happen to love another person like you do but in the same sex. but in any other words its the same meaning ... "love" .. you can be close minded. i know you know this already (because you have made thousands of posts) but you gotta look into the other person's eyes you cant just go and deffend one person without looking at the other side.

[Spirited Away]

yes people do tend to throw around the word ignorant but being close minded yes... because gay people are also people they have mouths two ears and two eyes just like any other person, but you should also consider they love too they just happen to love another person like you do but in the same sex. but in any other words its the same meaning ... "love" .. you can be close minded. i know you know this already (because you have made thousands of posts) but you gotta look into the other person's eyes you cant just go and deffend one person without looking at the other side.

And you're telling me something I already know and addressed because.......... why?

I hope that "you" in the bolded sentence is generalized, meant for BOTH sides, or else I will have to give you a sound beating.

[heyyfrankie]

i support it. i think that marriage is about love. not about gender or sexuality.

[sammi rules you]

why are you against it, fae? i would have expected the opposite suppose i shouldn't assume.

[VGyrl88]

I don't mind just as long as I don't meet up with anyone like that because I'd flip out..But everybody have their own interests, and these people should be able to go for what they want than forced to do the opposite..Everyone have the right to be free

[sammi rules you]

I don't mind just as long as I don't meet up with anyone like that because I'd flip out..But everybody have their own interests, and these people should be able to go for what they want than forced to do the opposite..Everyone have the right to be free

it's quite likely you'll meet quite a few gay people..welcome to the earth.

[lAzN YiN YanGl]

yes i do know many gay people but they are not my friends being gay is wrong because the bible says it is period. yes i`m christian no i`m not forcing my religion on you. but i am against homosexuals. how are gay people just like straight people? obviously they aren't....yes people are people but if you`re gay you arent "just like" a straight person....

so if i made a really famous book one day saying your an idiot, is everyoen going to believe it?

[pandamonium]

And you're telling me something I already know and addressed because.......... why?

I hope that "you" in the bolded sentence is generalized, meant for BOTH sides, or else I will have to give you a sound beating.

yes it is generalized. thats why i stated you may already know this.

it's quite likely you'll meet quite a few gay people..welcome to the earth.

ahah thats funny.

[Spirited Away]

why are you against it, fae? i would have expected the opposite suppose i shouldn't assume.

No, love, I'm neither for nor against.

Orginally, I was completely against when I was first exposed to the idea. Then, I talked to others about it. My Mom told me to just imagined myself in love with someone and having society shun us for being in love. I would be hurt and ashamed for loving someone.

I never thought myself a wholly good person, but I've never thought of myself as someone who can hurt others with my judgement nor as someone who would see love as unacceptable, forbidden.

I recognize love for what it is to myself and to others, therefore, I am not against the idea of homosexuality but I still need time to adjust to this concept as it IS different from our tradition. No matter what anyone says, marriage between man and man, woman and woman is different from what society deems as normal; but that DOES NOT mean that society cannot get used to it. This takes time.

However, as someone who was once against the idea all together, I know that not all who are against homosexuals mean to harm them. Those people are simply just not used to it and not yet ready to embrace change. Mostly likely, they do not understand the amount of pain they bring to those different from them. This DOES NOT make them completely ignorant, closed minded, or bad, it simply makes them slow to change.

The ones who truly deserve the brunt of attacks are those who mean to hurt, those who want to others to see love as a vile thing.

The great distinction from those who want to hurt others and those who do not know that their judgement hurts is that one group can be convinced to change while the other needs to seek peace with the world.

I'm not against, but it will take time for me to accept.

[sammi rules you]

No, love, I'm neither for nor against. 

Orginally, I was completely against, that is, until I talked to others about it. My Mom told me to just imagined myself in love with someone and having society shun us for being in love. I would be hurt and ashamed for loving someone.

I never thought myself a wholly good person, but I've never thought of myself as someone who can hurt others with my judgement nor as someone who would see love as unacceptable, forbidden.

I recognize love for what it is to myself and to others, therefore, I am not against the idea of homosexuality but I still need time to adjust to this concept as it IS different from our tradition. No matter what anyone says, marriage between man and man, woman and woman is different from what society deems as normal; but that DOES NOT mean that society cannot get used to it. This takes time. 

However, as someone who was once against the idea all together, I know that not all who are against homosexuals mean to harm them. Those people are simply just not used to it and not yet ready to embrace change. Mostly likely, they do not understand the amount of pain they bring to those different from them. This DOES NOT make them completely ignorant, closed minded, or bad, it simply makes them slow to change.

The ones who truly deserve the brunt of attacks are those who mean to hurt, those who want to others to see love as a vile thing.

The great distinction from those who want to hurt others and those who do not know that their judgement hurts is that one group can be convinced to change while the other needs to seek peace with the world.

I'm not against, but it will take time for me to accept.

quite true, but i usually just deem people as ignorant when their reasoning for thinking so is completely absurd. to me, at least. (not you, people that say "it's gross" or something..that's not a reason. )

besides, no one will get used to it if we don't let it happen. banning it will only make those not used to it never have a chance to.

for those whose reasoning i for religious reasons, why? if they sin, how does that affect you? if they get married, what does that do to you? sure, if you get invited to a gay marraige, don't go then but..why is it such a big deal if they get married? i understand why you're against homosexuality, but not against their marraiges.

[Spirited Away]

quite true, but i usually just deem people as ignorant when their reasoning for thinking so is completely absurd. to me, at least. (not you, people that say "it's gross" or something..that's not a reason. )

Most of those whose reasoning is that it's "gross" are indeed ignorant (or immature rather), but I have faith (in humanity) that their opinions can change if only they realize the pain that such words bring to another person. How that can be accomplished, I do not know.

besides, no one will get used to it if we don't let it happen. banning it will only make those not used to it never have a chance to.

Again, I have faith (in humanity) that the banning will not hold for long. If it does, the most likely source is the religiously zealous mass that strives for continuance of this persecution under the pretense of doing work for a Higher Power.

But even if that is the case, most of these people aren't completely wrong for believing as they do. It is the fault of those who put the idea that love can be so wrong into the minds of others, and so they are the ones who should be called the most foul of names.

for those whose reasoning i for religious reasons, why? if they sin, how does that affect you? if they get married, what does that do to you? sure, if you get invited to a gay marraige, don't go then but..why is it such a big deal if they get married? i understand why you're against homosexuality, but not against their marraiges.

I think it has been explained that they are not against homosexuals, but they are against the act of homosexuality.

[racoons > you]

I think it has been explained that they are not against homosexuals, but they are against the act of homosexuality

well thats just sheer hypocrisy... i mean you cant just say to someone, it sok to be in love with someone, but not to share yourself intimately with them...

[pandamonium]

well thats just sheer hypocrisy... i mean you cant just say to someone, it sok to be in love with someone, but not to share yourself intimately with them...

ok, i know what you mean but still you dont have to be intimate when you are in love. you see thats whats wrong with society today sex on tv is shown to be ok. "ohh your 17 its alright go and have sex dont worrie about condoms or anything like that just go do it." Not like that exact sentence has been said on tv but tahts what they are implying.

its truly alright for a person to be in a relationship and not have sex.

[angel-roh]

I oppose gay marriage.
I'm glad John Kerry didn't win.
But I hate George Bush too. But I'm glad that he was against
gay marriages. So that's the only thing I liked from him.
I mean God created us girl and a guy first, so they can mate.
Then just stick with the generations. How can a guy and a guy
mate? Eesh. Well yeah marriage is about love, but ehh...
so a 5 year old girl loves a 40 year old guy... she can marry him?
I mean she loves him so much that she can't live without him.
Would you let her marry him? It's like your guys are saying
It's our freedom to do whatever we want. We can marry
old guys that are like 40 years older from you? eck.. whoever
wants to marry a 40 year old guy when you're only 17...eww.
Don't you guys want the population to grow in this earth?
Then we need a guy and a girl to mate, so the girl can have
a baby. How can a girl and a girl mate and make themselves
pregnant?........................ don't think that's possible lol.
.
.

[abiel]

I support gay marriage and I'm wondering what all your opinions are.

I live in MA and they just legalized it so isall good. xP

cool!
I live in New York.
People should be able to love whom ever they want, as long as they aren't seriously hurting someone.

[abiel]

I oppose gay marriage.
I'm glad John Kerry didn't win.
But I hate George Bush too. But I'm glad that he was against
gay marriages. So that's the only thing I liked from him.
I mean God created us girl and a guy first, so they can mate.
Then just stick with the generations. How can a guy and a guy
mate? Eesh. Well yeah marriage is about love, but ehh...
so a 5 year old girl loves a 40 year old guy... she can marry him?
I mean she loves him so much that she can't live without him.
Would you let her marry him? It's like your guys are saying
It's our freedom to do whatever we want. We can marry
old guys that are like 40 years older from you? eck.. whoever
wants to marry a 40 year old guy when you're only 17...eww.
Don't you guys want the population to grow in this earth?
Then we need a guy and a girl to mate, so the girl can have
a baby. How can a girl and a girl mate and make themselves
pregnant?........................ don't think that's possible lol.
.
.

I'm not to clear on how the age difference relates to same-sex marriages...
Not everyone is gay, you know, and in fact the world is overpopulated as is.
Plus there is the option of surrogate mothers/or sperm donors that serious homosexual couples use.
I also believe in God, and that if he can inspire love in you, what is wrong with having love for someone of the other sex, as long as you aren't hurting the individual?
And actually, as stated in the Constitiution, we can do as we please so long as we do not violate the law.

[racoons > you]

Then we need a guy and a girl to mate, so the girl can have
a baby

then does that invalidate a hetorsexualy marriage where the woman/man is infertile, or where they choose not to have children

if people exist entirely to procreate, then what about those who choose not to is what im trying to say

ok, i know what you mean but still you dont have to be intimate when you are in love. you see thats whats wrong with society today sex on tv is shown to be ok. "ohh your 17 its alright go and have sex dont worrie about condoms or anything like that just go do it." Not like that exact sentence has been said on tv but tahts what they are implying.

its truly alright for a person to be in a relationship and not have sex.

yes it sfine... but sex is a very real part of a persons realtionship.. i take it youve never been truly in love?

and what on earth does a 17 yearold going out and having wild sex with strangers have to do with two people in love... it doesnt relate

[Spirited Away]

well thats just sheer hypocrisy... i mean you cant just say to someone, it sok to be in love with someone, but not to share yourself intimately with them...

Actually, there is quite a number of homosexual Christians who are against sodomy. I think I posted a link to a Gay Christian network a while back and in the FAQ, it distinctly explains that some Gay Christians think that sodomy is wrong and believe in abstinence.

[racoons > you]

im sure they do... i just think its hypocritical *shrugs*

ah is that what sodomy means? i was never sure. u learn something new everyday and what not

[potmonkeyjd]

I completly Support on Gay marriage, I'm not christian however i do see thier side of it, i think they should make a certain "program" (couldn't think of a good word) where they have all the benefits of marriage, but it wouldn't be called that. I think thats what i meant......

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[zbrittanyz]

People should be allowed to love whomever they want. Gay marriage is no different. If two people of the same sex love each other, then why shouldn't they get married? Marriage is supposed to be about love. Now it's all about politics.

[sammi rules you]

I completly Support on Gay marriage, I'm not christian however i do see thier side of it, i think they should make a certain "program" (couldn't think of a good word) where they have all the benefits of marriage, but it wouldn't be called that. I think thats what i meant......

..civil unions?

[haffkrazy3]

i support it. let people do whatever they want with their lives. i mean people are always saying *live your life to the fullest* and if that means being with someone of the same gender then they should be able to do just that. i also dont get why people are considered gross if they marry within their family.

[tofuburger]

yeah i'm not sure i posted in this or not..but i don't think i have so here goes

i don't think it's right...but i don't think we should be all i hate you cuz you're gay and getting married about it...cuz just..relating back to the bible here..it's a sin..but doesn't it also say love your neighbor as yourself...something like that???

[demolished]

why do people have to oppose it .. do you people even know what does " marriage " about ...... ? it's not about who they are .. it's about their " love " .. i think ..

[innovation]

meh, i really don't feel like reading the whole thread... but i'm going to tap into the morality of all this... in my opinion, homosexuals should not be given access to the institution of marriage. marriage is not simply a "right" or even a declaration of love. it has been defined as the social, economic, legal, and spiritual union of a man and a woman for thousands of years in virtually every culture of the world. if homosexuals were given access to this institution simply because they "love" each other, would there be a need to restrict marriage between cousins or even set a minimum age for marriage? by not allowing gay marriage, we aren't depriving them of their "rights;" we're simply upholding the definition of the sacred institution that has been in existence for years and years. we cannot allow a radical movement to simply impose this whole new definition of marriage on our society. previous radical movements, such as anti-slavery and women's suffrage, have succeeded because they are in accord with natural morality and law; however, gay marriage is not in accord with this natural law. i'm not anti-homosexual; i'm actually very tolerant of them; i don't mind homosexual relationships at all. i just don't believe that our society should change the original definition of "marriage."