To: the Nice Guys, That Finish Last... Options

[DaTru KataLYST]

Ode to the Nice Guys

This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors and give reassuring pats on the back and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA3 to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do, is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is, the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.

Fu-zu Jen
Written for the Wharton Undergraduate Journal

---

Just thought we needed some appreciation.

[jnukes]

umm .. kinda got bored after tha 2nd paragraph .. but that like .. describes me though .. haha ..

[DaTru KataLYST]

umm .. kinda got bored after tha 2nd paragraph .. but that like .. describes  me though .. haha ..

you wouldn't get the whole thing till you reach some point in high school..

[sweetdreamsx3]

I read that before somewhere..in a geocities website. HAha. :P

[FLIPxADDICTION]

Nice guys are the best kind of guys out there!

edit_// this topic just reminded me of the song "Nice Guys Finish Last"

[*wind&fire*]

hahha you p***sy's!!

tell them to take life by the balls

[actionrobot_go]

Are you a nice guy?

[largosama]

Thanks to that person

[*salcha*]

nice guys are awesome

[heyyfrankie]

[sandy_lumpy_shor...]

you wouldn't get the whole thing till you reach some point in high school..

lol well maybe hes just a really short freshmen

[WhiteLotus*]

Nice guys are the best kind of guys out there!

edit_// this topic just reminded me of the song "Nice Guys Finish Last"

Yes, they rock./

OH! HAHA!I know! Man, earworm comming!

[misoshiru]

nice guys are the best (:

[*stephinika*]

i the nice guys.

[yukichan]

wow..that was long...but i read the whole thing...nice guys r the best!!!!!

[imafreakinazn]

haha that was cool!
HECK YES NICE GUYS ARE THE BEST!!
the mean guys are just a pain in the butt.

[*Azarel*]

Ode to the Nice Girls
This was written by the girls of D-202 in response to the Ode to the Nice Guys

This is a tribute to the nice girls. These are the girls who are safe. The girls whom guys who have girlfriends are allowed to hang out with because they’re not viewed as a threat. These are the girls who dress respectably . . . they don’t go and get “skank clothes” and parade themselves around, catching the attention of every drooling, testosterone-filled boy on earth. These are the girls who are okay with going to chick-fil-a on a date, hanging out, watching a movie, playing a game, or doing some other low-cost, high-fun form of entertainment. Because after all, it’s really about the quality time that they spend with the guy and not the amount of money that is flowing from his pockets in order to please her every whim and desire (or so he thinks) during the date.

This is in honor of the girls who take the time to ask their guy friends “how’s life?” and to listen carefully when the answer is given. The girls who go out of their way to make cookies or cheer up male friends in distress. Yeah, we know “men are from Mars” and “women are from Venus,” but a simple “thank you” is pretty darn universal.

This goes out to the girls who must sit complacently while their guy friends discuss the “hotness” of the girl at the next table over. They watch as these guys date or lust over each and every self-centered, trashy, insecure, flirtatious, and flighty girl they come into contact with.

When asked, most guys say they would like to date a nice girl. However, when faced with such an opportunity, they claim that “I love her . . .like a little sister” or “there are no such things as nice girls. They’re all evil.” These guys continue to complain about how all girls are “manipulative” and “gossipy” and wonder why in the world they all go to the bathroom at the same time.

But, we must confess, there are guys out there who realize the value of their nice friends who are girls. These are the guys who should be praised for their willingness to go with the flow, hang out, and chill. These guys, however, fail to consider these nice girls as anything more than friends or to step up to the plate and consider them for a Saturday night date or the upcoming dance even though they possess all the qualities that guys claim they are looking for. But, a note to the nice girls. Eventually all guys will (or at least should) realize that they don’t want to have a relationship with a girl who wants all of their money and who will only date them until a guy who is better or more enhancing for her social status comes along. So, until those guys realize what is right in front of them, a word of encouragement to the nice girls. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of being treated like a doormat. In all honesty, you are valuable. Clearly, you possess qualities that cause your guy friends to want to hang out with you. The world needs your encouragement, your willingness to take part in spontaneous activities, your ability to continue to enjoy life even though you watch as countless nasty, malicious female sirens blind the nice guys with their alluring ways. For all of the random, frustrating, and seemingly non-sensical things you tolerate, don’t lose hope. Nice guys do exist and will someday realize that nice girls, who are not evil, exist as well. Fear not, your day will come. And perhaps your prince will too.

------

Should this be put in the writing forum?

[HelloSunshine]

I read both the guys' and girls' one..they're both really true. nice guys certainly are the best.

[Wishful_Dream]

i read that whole thing.. i like nice guys.. ><" i always like them haha.. but i never date them.. ><" cuz ....ya.. it'd ruin friendships T__T" and i'm too young to date anyways =p

[d0rkbaby]

haha from reading these things. they are sooo true. but the funny thing is that its happening both ways. i'm nice to one of my guy friends like that. and he's nice to me by listening to me like that. but then we both only see each other as bro sis type of relationship. everyone always asks why dont you guys go out. shes so nice to you. he's so nice to you. but then our answers are =P " he/she is just a sis/bro to me"

[gelionie]

Wow. I love both of those passages.

[kyuubi319]

I read both and i love both and they're both so very true.
I<3 the often underappreciated nice guys

[innovation]

nice guys aren't appreciated because they're so cliche. seriously, how many of these perfectly nice guys are there out there? it's kind of disturbing; i'd rather date someone who thinks differently; someone with a somewhat unique personality? and no, "unique" does not mean perverted or annoying or jockish. it means the one-in-a-million type. those cliche nice guys just make better friends, 'nuff said. sorry guys. (also, it sort of bothers me that most guys claim to be the "nice, shy guy type." the whole label just doesn't work in most circumstances.)

[Ington]

I'm naturally nice. =\

But after reading these comments I'm not sure if its a bad thing or not.

[Ington]

edit: damn double post

This post has been edited by ermfermoo: Feb 25 2005, 10:02 AM

[Mistrunner]

I love both the guy and girl's one.

[*Programmer*]

Nice guys...
i commend you....
i've always wanted to be a nice guy...
i am envious...
i am briming with anger...
Why can't i be a nice guy...
i wish i could be one...
And one day you will see...you...won't finish last...

[racoons > you]

hmm.... i think that may be me.... bleuch

although i dont reallly want to be more than friends with most of my girl friednds, but still. that is my role

[*Weird addiction*]

hehe, i read only the first paragraph

[zbrittanyz]

Nice guys are so... nice! How could you not love them!

[avalon*]

i've read this before! and it's NOT true. awww i love nice guys =]]]

OMGGGG i think i know who wrote this! hahahaha he's the most hilarious guy in the world. where did you get this, jeff?!

[mzawesome]

nice guys are awesome.

[XaZnX07]

yeah i know what your talking bout haha i am one of those nice guys but haha sometimes my niceness attracts those girls lol but oh well i still understand where you are comming from



.:tony:.

[Rachel]

mmmm....read that a long time ago

[KissMe2408]

lol yah i read that on my friend brandons site. He's a nice guy. But i mean there aren't many of those guys that do all those things that was posted in that paragraph, lol or atleast i haven't met many of them. But yah usually those guys to me are my brotherly type figures. Nothing more, so i don't understand why people try to push us to date. We see each other as brother and sister. But i'm with someone right now that treats me better then i ever could imagine. :)

[DaTru KataLYST]

i've read this before! and it's NOT true. awww i love nice guys =]]]

OMGGGG i think i know who wrote this! hahahaha he's the most hilarious guy in the world. where did you get this, jeff?!

It was an undergraduate girl who wrote the entry for a public journal.

[skateforfree]

READ THIS PLEASE..

This is a tribute to the nice guys. The nice guys that finish last, that never become more than friends, that endure hours of whining and bitching about what assholes guys are, while disproving the very point. This is dedicated to those guys who always provide a shoulder to lean on but restrain themselves to tentative hugs, those guys who hold open doors, and give reassuring pats on the back, and sit patiently outside the changing room at department stores. This is in honor of the guys that obligingly reiterate how cute/beautiful/smart/funny/sexy their female friends are at the appropriate moment, because they know most girls need that litany of support. This is in honor of the guys with open minds, with laid-back attitudes, with honest concern. This is in honor of the guys who respect a girl’s every facet, from her privacy to her theology to her clothing style.

This is for the guys who escort their drunk, bewildered female friends back from parties and never take advantage once they’re at her door, for the guys who accompany girls to bars as buffers against the rest of the creepy male population, for the guys who know a girl is fishing for compliments, but give them out anyway, for the guys who always play by the rules in a game where the rules favor cheaters, for the guys who are accredited as boyfriend material but somehow don’t end up being boyfriends, for all the nice guys who are overlooked, underestimated, and unappreciated, for all the nice guys who are manipulated, misled, and unjustly abandoned, this is for you.

This is for that time she left 40 urgent messages on your cell phone, and when you called her back, she spent three hours painstakingly dissecting two sentences her boyfriend said to her over dinner. And even though you thought her boyfriend was a chump and a jerk, you assured her that it was all ok and she shouldn’t worry about it. This is for that time she interrupted the best killing spree you’d ever orchestrated in GTA:Vice City to rant about a rumor that romantically linked her and the guy she thinks is the most repulsive person in the world. And even though you thought it was immature and you had nothing against the guy, you paused the game for two hours and helped her concoct a counter-rumor to spread around the floor. This is also for that time she didn’t have a date, so after numerous vows that there was nothing “serious” between the two of you, she dragged you to a party where you knew nobody, the beer was awful, and she flirted shamelessly with you, justifying each fit of reckless teasing by announcing to everyone: “oh, but we’re just friends!” And even though you were invited purely as a symbolic warm body for her ego, you went anyways. Because you’re nice like that.

The nice guys don’t often get credit where credit is due. And perhaps more disturbing, the nice guys don’t seem to get laid as often as they should. And I wish I could logically explain this trend, but I can’t. From what I have observed on campus and what I have learned from talking to friends at other schools and in the workplace, the only conclusion I can form is that many girls are just illogical, manipulative bitches. Many of them claim they just want to date a nice guy, but when presented with such a specimen, they say irrational, confusing things such as “oh, he’s too nice to date” or “he would be a good boyfriend but he’s not for me” or “he already puts up with so much from me, I couldn’t possibly ask him out!” or the most frustrating of all: “no, it would ruin our friendship.” Yet, they continue to lament the lack of datable men in the world, and they expect their too-nice-to-date male friends to sympathize and apologize for the men that are jerks. Sorry, guys, girls like that are beyond my ability to fathom. I can’t figure out why the connection breaks down between what they say (I want a nice guy!) and what they do (I’m going to sleep with this complete ass now!). But one thing I can do is say that the nice-guy-finishes-last phenomenon doesn’t last forever. There are definitely many girls who grow out of that train of thought and realize they should be dating the nice guys, not taking them for granted. The tricky part is finding those girls, and even trickier, finding the ones that are single.

So, until those girls are found, I propose a toast to all the nice guys. You know who you are, and I know you’re sick of hearing yourself described as ubiquitously nice. But the truth of the matter is the world needs your patience in the department store, your holding open of doors, your party escorting services, and your propensity to be a sucker for a pretty smile. For all the crazy, inane, absurd things you tolerate, for all the situations where you are the faceless, nameless hero, my accolades, my acknowledgement, and my gratitude go out to you. You do have credibility in this society, and your well deserved vindication is coming.



It f**king sucks becuase its true

[AngryBaby]

damn that was long, Yay nice guys!
i didnt read it all i'm so bad

[banthisaccountno...]

Yeah... I can relate to mostly everything you've said...
It does suck... a lot...


Oh well...

[skateforfree]

Yeah... I can relate to mostly everything you've said...
It does suck... a lot...
Oh well...

i like ur sig

[lKVNiiKINKYl]

Haha like a million people just posted this on myspace and xanga

[skateforfree]

Haha like a million people just posted this on myspace and xanga

i heard it a couple days ago and im only on cb like once or twice a week

[enyceXaddiction]

i acctally read all that. wows. it does suckk...

[skateforfree]

indeed it does suck i have to go it too

[lKVNiiKINKYl]

i heard it a couple days ago and im only on cb like once or twice a week

really? on my myspace bulleten ( iknow bad spelling) like 20 of my friends have that. i was checking friends xangas and its posted non stop x.x

[*Azarel*]

http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=64219
http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=73654

[cleec]

It sucks that it's actually true. Despite girls' complaints that they want a "good" guy, whenever he comes along the girl always passes it up. Why? Because he's usually TOO nice. There is such a thing. If you are too nice then you become a brother figure to her, which is kinda gross if you are trying to pursue a relationship with her. I'm not say be a jackass, but don't be overly sensitive and always at her beckon call. Girls like a challenge sometimes.

Just in my opinion.

[xN1CK08x]

This is incredibly true.. i'm one of those nice guys.. it sux. I'm only a friend to one girl who i have had a crush on since i first saw her, litteraly. And i help her out, and all i can do it stay back and have other's be her boyfriend. And all i can do is watch, cuz i know she will never love me back. She knows today that i like her. But, i'm sitting here writing about it. Argh.. so in this case, this nice guy finished last. But there is still a chance, 3 more years of High-School to go.. and time is running out, take control and tell the one u love ur true feelings before its too late.. Be Nice and Be Strong.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

If it honestly does suck, then change being mr. nice guy and be something else

[lKVNiiKINKYl]

If it honestly does suck, then change being mr. nice guy and be something else

If you can change, then you wern't really mr. nice guy to begin with

[*RiC3xBoy*]

If you can change, then you wern't really mr. nice guy to begin with

You can change....not gonna be easy, but doesn't mean you cant change.

[*mipadi*]

Nice Guys are Such Whiny Bitches

(By the way, I'm not saying I agree with this entire essay on the subject, but it is food for thought.)

[lKVNiiKINKYl]

You can change....not gonna be easy, but doesn't mean you cant change.

That's true but if you really are mr. nice guy, why would you change? It's a tribute to you -.-

[*RiC3xBoy*]

That's true but if you really are mr. nice guy, why would you change? It's a tribute to you -.-

Why change? Well, if u think it "sucks", why would you still be it?

[lKVNiiKINKYl]

Why change? Well, if u think it "sucks", why would you still be it?

Bah this isn't the debate forum...
Because being the nice guy is what some people are. If they are the nice guy, they are really close with that girl and they aren't going to let them know and what such...

[*RiC3xBoy*]

Bah this isn't the debate forum...
Because being the nice guy is what some people are. If they are the nice guy, they are really close with that girl and they aren't going to let them know and what such...

Yea, but if that's the case, why do they think it "sucks". Im not saying like to be a real jerk, but from what i've read, the "nice" guy sounds more like a girl's lap dog.

[*mipadi*]

but from what i've read, the "nice" guy sounds more like a girl's lap dog.[/b]

Bam! Exactly right!

[lKVNiiKINKYl]

Yea, but if that's the case, why do they think it "sucks". Im not saying like to be a real jerk, but from what i've read, the "nice" guy sounds more like a girl's lap dog.

Well when you like this girl but can't tell her but you always want to be there to protect her and make sure no pompas ass takes advantages of her is what nice guys do. It sucks because they might love her and want her so badly, but think they arent gonna work or be happy with him or whatever reason tehy might have so they just want to make sure she can be happy. =)

[*mipadi*]

Well when you like this girl but can't tell her but you always want to be there to protect her and make sure no pompas ass takes advantages of her is what nice guys do. It sucks because they might love her and want her so badly, but think they arent gonna work or be happy with him or whatever reason tehy might have so they just want to make sure she can be happy. =)

And that is exactly why "nice guys" stay just friends and nothing more--because they don't take charge and try to get what they want. Girls don't want someone to protect them from assholes--they can do that themselves. They want someone to pay attention to them, to listen to them, to talk to them, to spend time with them.

Taking charge is not synonymous with being an a-hole. Nice guys can take charge, too.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

Well when you like this girl but can't tell her but you always want to be there to protect her and make sure no pompas ass takes advantages of her is what nice guys do. It sucks because they might love her and want her so badly, but think they arent gonna work or be happy with him or whatever reason tehy might have so they just want to make sure she can be happy. =)

Well, you can still protect her even if u aren't the nice guy. When I said change, I just meant to not be so whipped and if the guy thinks it won't work out, they weren't meant to be in the beginning.

[lKVNiiKINKYl]

And that is exactly why "nice guys" stay just friends and nothing more--because they don't take charge and try to get what they want. Girls don't want someone to protect them from assholes--they can do that themselves. They want someone to pay attention to them, to listen to them, to talk to them, to spend time with them.

Taking charge is not synonymous with being an a-hole. Nice guys can take charge, too.

Honestly, I forget what we were arguing about. Its midnight and I have a headache. You win.

[lbjshaq2345]

i wouldnt no about the whole nice guy thing but i dont date girls alot i like bein "friends with benefits" but it sounds like it sucks

[lKVNiiKINKYl]

i wouldnt no about the whole nice guy thing but i dont date girls alot i like bein "friends with benefits"    but it sounds like it sucks

Friends with benefits rocks my socks

[*RiC3xBoy*]

Honestly, I forget what we were arguing about. Its midnight and I have a headache. You win.

Very well, good night, don't the debate bugs bite.

[lKVNiiKINKYl]

Very well, good night, don't the debate bugs bite.

Holy crap yes...tommorrow when I'm recharged we shall fight again! Enguarde!

[ag3nt_sm17h]

I hate being a "nice guy"

[Krateguy09]

People like that are known as "tools"...

[Eryi]

It sucks for us...
& it sucks to actually read all that. Lmao.

[lilJdawg]

Whoa, hahaha. Do you actually think guys will do that? You know, looks/actions can be decieving.

[Day_By_Day]

i go through most of that... :(

[HoodieObsessed]

maybe you should find a smarter girl to chase after then

I go for nice guys all the way

Maybe you should find a girl that doesn't have a boyfreind and be a nice guy (cause they rock) and one day just go up and kis her or something. I'm sure that'll get her attention Maybe the girls just don't feel comfertable insuing a relationship that's more than a freind because you've been such a brotherly figure to her...it could be that she doesn't know you WANT to have more than a freind relationship with her.

[*mipadi*]

maybe you should find a smarter girl to chase after then 

I go for nice guys all the way 

Maybe you should find a girl that doesn't have a boyfreind and be a nice guy (cause they rock) and one day just go up and kis her or something. I'm sure that'll get her attention  Maybe the girls just don't feel comfertable insuing a relationship that's more than a freind because you've been such a brotherly figure to her...it could be that she doesn't know you WANT to have more than a freind relationship with her.

Wise words from a wise female.

There's only one difference between "nice guys" and "jackasses"--jackasses have self-confidence. They know they can get whatever they want, and that any girl should be thrilled to be with them--so that's what they do, they take what they want.

Nice guys are appealing to girls, except they think that the way to get girls is to talk to them, spend a lot of time with them, do nice things for them--but never make any sort of move. But that's not how it works. A nice guy can certainly get girls, but he has to make an attempt--he has to make a move. Instead of hanging out with a girl he likes every now and then, and listening to her bitch about guys, and carrying her books and such or whatever nice things he does, he just needs to put his foot down and say, "Hey, you're cool. I like you. How about a movie on Friday?"

[xlauren73x]

aww that reminded me of mouth from one tree hill..

and i would soo love a nice guy, they are the best <33

[Blank-OuT]

loll I saw everyone post this on myspace, but its true. Bein a nice guy isn't all that bad...

[JoJo_x]

I read the whole thing!!! It makes me feel so ashamed for some reason....

Girls are complicated.......just so all the guys know that.........

[xlauren73x]

i've seen this one too.. i think i like it better

I've read the tribute to the nice guys; this is my response.

This is my tribute to the nice girls. To the nice girls who are overlooked, who become friends and nothing more, who spend hours fixating upon their looks and their personalities and their actions because it must be they that are doing something wrong. This is for the girls who don't give it up on the first date, who don't want to play mind games, who provide a comforting hug and a supportive audience for a story they've heard a thousand times. This is for the girls who understand that they aren't perfect and that the guys they're interested in aren't either, for the girls who flirt and laugh and worry and obsess over the slightest glance, whisper, touch, because somehow they are able to keep alive that hope that maybe... maybe this time he'll have understood. This is an homage to the girls who laugh loud and often, who are comfortable in skirts and sweats and combat boots, who care more than they should for guys who don't deserve their attention. This is for those girls who have been in the trenches, who have watched other girls time and time again fake up and make up and f**k up the guys in their lives without saying a word. This is for the girls who have been there from the beginning and have heard the trite words of advice, from "there are plenty of fish in the sea," to "time heals all wounds." This is to honor those girls who know that guys are just as scared as they are, who know that they deserve better, who are seeking to find it.

This is for the girls who have never been in love, but know that it's an experience that they don't want to miss out on. For the girls who have sought a night with friends and been greeted by a night of catcalling, rude comments and explicit invitations that they'd rather not have experienced. This is for the girls who have spent their weekends sitting on the sidelines of a beer pong tournament or a case race, or playing Florence Nightingale for a vomiting guy friend or a comatose crush, who have received a drunk phone call just before dawn from someone who doesn't care enough to invite them over but is still willing to pass out in their bed. This is for the girls who have left sad song lyrics in their away messages, who have tried to make someone understand through a subliminally appealing profile, who have time and time again dropped their male friend hint after hint after hint only to watch him chase after the first blonde girl in a skirt. This is for the girls who have been told that they're too good or too smart or too pretty, who have been given compliments as a way of breaking off a relationship, who have ever been told they are only wanted as a friend.

This one's for the girls who you can take home to mom, but won't because it's easier to sleep with a whore than foster a relationship; this is for the girls who have been led on by words and kisses and touches, all of which were either only true for the moment, or never real to begin with. This is for the girls who have allowed a guy into their head and heart and bed, only to discover that he's just not ready, he's just not over her, he's just not looking to be tied down; this is for the girls who believe the excuses because it's easier to believe that it's not that they don't want you, it's that they don't want anyone. This is for the girls who have had their hearts broken and their hopes dashed by someone too cavalier to have cared in the first place; this is for the nights spent dissecting every word and syllable and inflection in his speech, for the nights when you've returned home alone, for the nights when you've seen from across the room him leaning a little too close, or standing a little too near, or talking a little too softly for the girl he's with to be a random hookup. This is for the girls who have endured party after party in his presence, finally having realized that it wasn't that he didn't want a relationship: it was that he didn't want you. I honor you for the night his dog died or his grandmother died or his little brother crashed his car and you held him, thinking that if you only comforted him just right, or said the right words, or rubbed his back in the right way then perhaps he'd realize what it was that he already had. This is for the night you realized that it would never happen, and the sunrise you saw the next morning after failing to sleep.

This is for the "I really like you, so let's still be friends" comment after you read more into a situation than he ever intended; this is for never realizing that when you choose friends, you seldom choose those which make you cry yourself to sleep. This is for the hugs you've received from your female friends, for the nights they've reassured you that you are beautiful and intelligent and amazing and loyal and truly worthy of a great guy; this is for the despair you all felt as you sat in the aftermath of your tears, knowing that that night the only companionship you'd have was with a pillow and your teddy bear. This is for the girls who have been used and abused, who have endured what he was giving because at least he was giving something; this is for the stupidity of the nights we've believed that something was better than nothing, though his something was nothing we'd have ever wanted. This is for the girls who have been satisified with too little and who have learned never to expect anything more: for the girls who don't think that they deserve more, because they've been conditioned for so long to accept the scraps thrown to them by guys.

This is what I don't understand. Men sit and question and whine that girls are only attracted to the mean guys, the guys who berate them and belittle them and don't appreciate them and don't want them; who use them for sex and think of little else than where their next conquest will be made. Men complain that they never meet nice girls, girls who are genuinely interested and compelling, who are intelligent and sweet and smart and beautiful; men despair that no good women want to share in their lives, that girls play mindgames, that girls love to keep them hanging. Yet, men, I ask you: were you to meet one of these genuinely interested, thrillingly compelling, interesting and intelligent and sweet and beautiful and smart girls, were you to give her your number and wait for her to call... and if you were to receive a call from her the next day and she, in her truthful, loyal, intelligent and straightforward nice girl fashion, were to tell you that she finds you intriguing and attractive and interesting and worth her time and perhaps material from which she could fashion a boyfriend, would you or would you not immediately call your friends to tell them of the "stalker chick" you'd met the night prior, who called you and wore her heart on her sleeve and told the truth? And would you, or would you not, refuse to make plans with her, speak with her, see her again, and once again return to the bar or club or party scene and search once more for this "nice girl" who you just cannot seem to find? Because therein lies the truth, guys: we nice girls are everywhere. But you're not looking for a nice girl. You're not looking for someone genuinely interested in your intermural basketball game, or your anatomy midterm grade, or that argument you keep having with your father; you're looking for a quick fix, a night when you can pretend to have a connection with another human being which is just as disposable as the condom you were using during it.

So don't say you're on the lookout for nice girls, guys, when you pass us up on every step you take. Sometimes we go undercover; sometimes we go in disguise: sometimes when that girl in the low cut shirt or the too tight miniskirt won't answer your catcalls, sometimes you're looking at a nice girl in whore's clothing - - we might say we like the attention, we might blush and giggle and turn back to our friends, but we're all thinking the same thing: "This isn't me. Tomorrow morning, I'll be wearing a teeshirt and flannel shorts, I'll have slept alone and I'll be making my hungover best friend breakfast. See through the disguise. See me." You never do. Why? Because you only see the exterior, you only see the slutty girl who welcomes those advances. You don't want the nice girl.. so don't say you're looking for a relationship: relationships take time and energy and intent, three things we're willing to extend - - but in return, we're looking for compassion and loyalty and trust, three things you never seem willing to express. Maybe nice guys finish last, but in the race they're running they're chasing after the whores and the sluts and the easy-targets... the nice girls are waiting at the finish line with water and towels and a congradulatory hug (and yes, if she's a nice girl and she likes you, the sweatiness probably won't matter), hoping against hope that maybe you'll realize that they're the ones that you want at the end of that silly race.

So maybe it won't last forever. Maybe some of those guys in that race will turn in their running shoes and make their way to the concession stand where we're waiting; however, until that happens, we still have each other, that silly race to watch, and all the chocolate we can eat (because what's a concession stand at a race without some chocolate?)

[lKVNiiKINKYl]

awww thats so sweet =)

[sheepy]

yo that is so true. okay, i should treat nice guys nicer now ;x

[reanimateddroid]

nice guys may not finish first all the time but from my experiences it sometimes better to lose then to win. Sometiime u get a better payoff later then if u had won

[CrazayChristian]

Dammit, I feared this would be posted...

Ok, here goes another teaching of why "Nice guys suck".

Nice guys don't Suck. Blind, stuipid nice guys are what you're talking about. And I KNOW what this is, I WAS (and slightly still am) one of these "Nice guys".

If you read this and thought "Why don't women like it when you do all these awesomely nice things?" Then you don't "get it".

"Nice guys" break what I call the "3 Too's"

Too fast
Too much
Too soon

They go from Hi to I love you within days, and this is a BIG mistake.

They spill thier heart out with romantic things, another BIG mistake

And, they do it basically to "Pay the woman for her company".

You don't take a woman out to a big flashy restraunt your first date. Infact, you don't even call it a date. You should start out with:
"You seem like you could be a really good FRIEND(note) and I figured you want to go out for coffee/tea"

This says "I'm not some guy trying to rush into a relationship. You don't KNOW if I even WANT a relationship. So, I'll take you to a small meeting, where it will be just you, me, and our conversation." This also says that you aren't BUYING her company with food.

"Nice guys" have been known to buy company, but one thing you can't get mad about is her flaking off,not returning phone calls,ect.
To her, it's not a big deal, she didn't and probably even forgot she didn't. So, DON'T BRING IT UP AND ACT LIKE YOU REMEMBERED. That shows that you ARE intersted, and you OBSESS over things.

Nice guys aren't doomed because thier nice, thier doomed because they are SCARED. They think they won't get anything better, so they buy things, do favors, and try to work and pay for attention.

I would go into detail, but I'll just like to This
At the bottom of the page.

-Joshua

[*mipadi*]

Well, your analysis is interesting, CrazayChristian, and I agree with some things you said, but I think you're kind of overthinking the whole situation. Look, when it comes down to it, nice guys don't finish last because they try too hard, or they do too much too soon, or they don't do it right. Yeah, all those are good points on how to avoid certain pitfalls in dating, but nice guys don't get anywhere because, generally speaking, they don't try at all. Instead of just asking a girl straight-up on a date, they try to become good friends with her in the hopes she will notice how great they are, or they throw out clues in the hopes she will notice their interest. Successful guys, on the other hand, just ask--and that's why things work out for them.

It's not a matter of not taking a girl to a fancy restaurant so that you don't seem to be trying too hard, or calling her up because she didn't call you, or whatever. That, in and of itself, is kind of a bad idea, because just like those nice guys, a guy like that is still "playing the game," trying to get a point across without having to actually say it.

No, the key is to really be straight-up honest about your intentions. Being subtle and saying something like "You seem like you could be a really good friend, and I figured you want to go out for coffee/tea," is just a bad idea because then what's the girl going to think? She's going to wonder, "Is this guy a friend, or is he interested?" And that's where nice guys go wrong, because they make the relationship ambiguous.

If you want a date, just ask. No "playing the game," no being subtle. Just say, "Hey, what are you doing this Friday? I'd like to take you to a movie." or "I'd like to take you out for coffee." Bam, done. It's clear you're interested, it's clear it's a date, there's no ambiguity. Nice guys fail because they try to make the dating thing ambiguous. They figure, well, I'll make it kind of sound like a date, and kind of sound like a "just friends" thing, because if she likes me, then I can make it into a date, and if she doesn't, I can make it look like I just want to be friends, and then I won't get shot down. Nope. Wrong. In romance, you have to take a risk. You have to risk getting shot down. Even the best guys get shot down. It happens to everyone. So don't worry about it. Just be cool and if it works out, great; if not, move on to someone else, but don't dwell on your failure. It's not your fault; at least you gave it your best shot.

Be cool, be confident, just remember that you are a great person and damn it, if she doesn't want to go out on a date, she's not worth your time anyway, because there're plenty more women. If you keep that in mind, you won't have to worry about other women, because she'll say yes. Women love a confident guy--everyone feels more comfortable around a confident person, and confident people are simply much, much harder to shoot down. But again, the key is to not play games, or try to be subtle. You see a girl you like, go up to her, look her in the eye, and just ask her flat-out, without stammering or beating around the bush, for a date. It's not as scary as it seems.

And if all goes well (which it will), then you'll be one of a rare breed: a nice guy with girlfriend.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

I agree with mipadi although I also agree with CrazyChristian on that Nice Guy's main problem is FEAR. They are scared to straight forward and scared to disapoint the girl so they do whatever they can for her.

[CrazayChristian]

Your about the 25.....thousand and first person to tell me I over think things.

Yes, I guess I didn't mention they don't try. I was throwing in advice assuming they DID try. But, yes i over think things.

But, one thing I did mention (and you sort of touched on) was how guys sort of "ruin" thier chances before they can say anything (3 too's) they end up saying and doing things before they even get to a relationship(or how you said "drop clues"/"beat around the bush") this is yet a result of fear.

All you need is your spine, I think I saw it next to your balls and to the left of your brain.

But seriously, "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself!"

[i_r_hispanic]

Nice guys are like mysterious and creepy i mean why be afraid...or shy especially if you want a good relationship!!! i cant handle shy or the nice it fresk me out!!!

[CrazayChristian]

^er...wha?

They have thier reasons, bad past, sheltered, just them.

I don't ask questions, things happen.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

Your about the 25.....thousand and first person to tell me I over think things.

Yes, I guess I didn't mention they don't try. I was throwing in advice assuming they DID try. But, yes i over think things.

But, one thing I did mention (and you sort of touched on) was how guys sort of "ruin" thier chances before they can say anything (3 too's) they end up saying and doing things before they even get to a relationship(or how you said "drop clues"/"beat around the bush") this is yet a result of fear.

All you need is your spine, I think I saw it next to your balls and to the left of your brain.

But seriously, "We have nothing to fear, but fear itself!"

It actually takes more than just a spine. Theres also the confidence factor as well as the way you present yourself to the girl. Also, there is the mater of how you talk and what your trying to say about yourself.

[*mipadi*]

Yeah...but that all stems from having a bit of spine.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

Yea, but I wasn't sure if he meant all of it.

[michelina0kudelk...]

Nice Guys are Such Whiny Bitches

(By the way, I'm not saying I agree with this entire essay on the subject, but it is food for thought.)

You should agree with everything he said, it's true, I'm a girl, TRUST me. Whoever wrote this:
1) I'm almost positive that YOU are the one labelling the girls boyfriend as an a-hole
2) Girls like Balls (just like the guy in the article)
3) Intelligent girls who are going places just don't see ANYTHING in the doormat they bitch to, and if you find playing Grand Theft Auto important....YOU NEED TO SORT OUT YOUR PRIORITIES! Possibly school? Good marks are a good thing, we like intelligent men.
4) You aren't a nice guy, you are a doormat, there is a difference. The guys we date are nice guys, that would be why we like them, there is an occasional a-hole in the bunch, but most of them we really do truly like! And if she really is dating a true a-hole, then she's a dumbass, and that's that.
5) Just like the guy said in his article, just kiss us, don't ask, that's lame, on most occasions anyway.
6) And from your essay, you hold back from hugging us? You think a hug is a big thing?? You need to think about that if you find a hug big. (The people you have labelled as "assholes" give us hugs when we are in distress, it comforts us.)
7) No I am not being a bitch, well maybe a bit, but if you ever want to get a girl, you HAVE to show some backbone! I do feel bad for you, you just DON'T understand girls! And the girl who is your good friend, she thinks of you more as brotherly because you are always there, you don't have a chance with her, well maybe a very minute one, but not much.

*P.S. wish I could try to help you, but I have things to do, but one big tip for anyone...Doormat is not the way to go..

And by the way, it could be a possibility that you are going for someone who is perhaps a bit out of your league....? It would be nice if the whole world accepted everyone and their looks and everyone was just one big happy family where the nerdy guy with glasses, acne and captain of the mathletes could date the thin blonde with blue eyes and a fabulous wardrobe. Terribly sorry, but guys you have to go for people in your league, there may be the odd girl who doesn't care about looks, but she usually doesn't have them herself. But. it will always be the way it is, hot guys and hot girls, and nerdy guys and nerdy girls.

[CrazayChristian]

It's damn good I didn't read that a few months ago. (Yes, I was a "Nice Guy") And, I don't regret it. Now, I have experiance and I can UNDERSTAND why they are the way they are.

Anyways everything he wrote, was almost repeatitive. It could all be sumed up in:

Grow some balls. Women test you, and if you don't lay down the law, then you will never get anywhere. Stop being a door mat.

I'm suprised I never spoke of this before, but yes, women test you. They will literally ask you to do something, ask you a question, or do something, and WATCH what you do.
If she waits outside her door, and you don't kiss her, BAM you lost respect.
If she asks you to do something at a constant rate,you are required to either tell her no, or tell her yes WITH FLAIR.("Eh...I MIGHT beable to fit it in, but you defninately owe me. I'm not playing here. So, if you're willing to pay, I'm willing to work."Something along these lines, don't go down too easily.)

I think there is an actual book that's supposed to be like "The Bible to Dating" I found it in one of my cousins emails. I think it's something like:

Double Your Dating

I could be wrong though.

Anyways, good luck to all the door mats out there.

[*mipadi*]

I think you're all overthinking the dating situation way too much. You have to "lay down the law" in a relationship? WTF? No. Relationships do not work when one person tries to "lay down the law" and control the other person; they work when both partners take a mutually active role in controlling and influencing the relationship.

And all this about "women testing you" and watching your every move is a stretch. I mean, any time when you begin dating, the other person is examining you, just as you are examining them. But they're not trying to pounce on flaws. Look, if you successfully get a date, it means the other party is at least a bit interested; and since no one likes a bad date, she's not likely to go out of her way to make it bad. Even if you stumble or make a few small mistakes, it's not the end of the world, you still have a chance.

The key isn't to be perfect, or "lay down the law," or anything like that. The key to being successful is to be comfortable with yourself, and with the person you are with, because then you will be comfortable with the situation, and you will just know what to do. And even if you slip up a bit, she'll be comfortable enough that it won't matter.

Look, if there's one thing to be said about nice guys, it's that they're sociable; girls like them in the first place because they're good all-around guys. The reason they don't get dates is because they have no confidence and are too nervous; but if they get over that, they will be successful, because chances are, they have a good idea how to be a good date--they just need the opportunity. Telling nice guys that they have to "lay down the law" and do all these complicated things to attract women will only make them worry more and make them more nervous--and there's no need for that. Nice guys don't need to change their personality, they're generally fine how they are; they just need some guts and confidence in order to be successful in dating.

[squashie]

just do what's right and be a nice guy. integrity. even if it doesnt matter to anyone, do it cuz you know its right. and cool =D

[heyyfrankie]

TOPICS MERGED

[Death2Smilee]

Yay!!! NICE PEOPLE IN GENERAL!!!
Why must we split the nice girls and guys?
All are wonderful. All deserve one rightful thing. Yes, their are the slight differences, but it's good to salute the little angels that stand before us all.
~~~edit~~~
Oh no, is this turning into a relationships thing? C'MON!!!! Why does have to be relationships? Does anyone ever think "I'll do this for the greater good," Not that you'll eventually date or something? Still, I love the nice ppl theme. Don't make it about going out with everyone, unless that was the point in the first place.

[oneandonlytammie]

Ugh, I hate reading long posts. I like nice guys.

[glit_gal]

cheers to nice guys all over the world

[*incoherent*]

didnt feel like reading all that.

im sure it has something to do with the title and id have to agree with it being true.

[sadolakced acid]

i used to be a nice guy.

then i got tired of it.
so i've decided to simply not be friends with girls. works out quite nicely.
it didn't really last tho.

so now i'm back to reassuring my ex girlfriend that her boyfriend isn't gay.

what fun.

[*suddenly she*]

^haha.
they don't always finish last.

[*iNyCxShoRT*]

I nice guys. I know one right now, he's my best friend.