Winter Holiday? Options

[DisneyPrincessKa...]

Around here places are no longer selling Christmas trees. They are selling Holiday trees instead. People refrain from using the term Christmas tree for fear of offending those who do not celebrate Christmas. I am unaware of any holiday during december that uses a Christmas tree, so why do we need to change the name?

Now, Christmas is the most main stread holiday out there. Not everyone celebrates it, but it is very highly advertised. If it is such a popular holiday why must the media deny it's meaning? It celebrates the birth of Christ, however people often dance around that because they do not want to offend others.

Should there be a new holiday for buying presents, one that has no religious ties? Or should Chirstmas be Christmas and not "The Winter Holiday"? I'd especially like to hear from those of you who do not celebrate Christmas.

[Spirited Away]

Who are these "people" that do not want of offend non-Christians? Are they Christians, non-Christians, or both? The media denies its meaning how and in what way? Can you give us an example? In turn, I shall name the many ways non-Christians are denied (but maybe that's for another debate). Though Christmas officially celebrates Christ's birth (belated), the Winter holidays is just as meaningful for non-Christians to observe. In fact, non-Christians have celebrated the Winter holidays centuries before Christ was born. What problem do you see with people "dancing around" Christians' meaning of Christmas? Perhaps you have mistaken their tune. People may use whatever terms they wish depending on how they perceive the meaning of Christmas and the Winter holidays.

Maybe folks in your area are merely trying to target the non-Christian market by using alternate, less religious terms. In Texas, Houston at least, we still have Christmas trees and plenty of talk about Christ's birth.

Christmas is Christmas to Christians, but the day is also part of the Winter holidays for non-Christians, why should there be a new, separate holiday? Non-Christians don't have a problem with Christians celebrating Christmas, unless Christians are holding a grudge with the rest of the world celebrating the Winter holidays, there shouldn't be a problem.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Yea um...I don't think I've ever met a non-Christian who's upset about the way Christmas comes about. Perhaps the giant amount of advertising and recognition Christmas gets and not other holidays, but...never upset about Christmas itself.

[saintruthanne]

It's just like Thanksgiving being named Turkey Day; people don't want God or Christ affiliated with any holiday. Soon Easter will be "Bunny Day" or "Happy Egg Day" or something silly like that.

[illumineering]

If the "official" name of a tree has the capacity to disrupt the inherent meaning of the Christmas season, the truth was lost long before the "Holiday Tree" was vogue.

[*StanleyThePanda*]

Yea um...I don't think I've ever met a non-Christian who's upset about the way Christmas comes about. Perhaps the giant amount of advertising and recognition Christmas gets and not other holidays, but...never upset about Christmas itself.

I dont think its really "non-christians" who are offended, but uhm any other religion that doesnt celebrate Christmas...You know what Im saying?
like some stores (kohls for example) arent allowed to say "Merry Christmas" because they might offend someone who doesnt celebrate it because of whatever religion they are....

But I personally think its silly....
Cause if the people who get offended, dont celebrate Christmas, then they should get a tree.....IMO

[Mulder]

Yea um...I don't think I've ever met a non-Christian who's upset about the way Christmas comes about. Perhaps the giant amount of advertising and recognition Christmas gets and not other holidays, but...never upset about Christmas itself.

i agree. its not like i expect every store to have a "hannukah sale" or anything. im not offended by Christmas's recognition.

[Gigi]

It's just like Thanksgiving being named Turkey Day; people don't want God or Christ affiliated with any holiday. Soon Easter will be "Bunny Day" or "Happy Egg Day" or something silly like that.

What part of the name "Thanksgiving" is related to Christ? While "Christmas" is blatantly referring to Christ...you can't really use that example.

[Tribal J_Rome]

that's real stupid, why would u need a "holiday" tree other than to celebrate christmas. it's the only reason they sell them this time of year.....

[sense.n.style]

they stopped calling it christmas trees?

[*disco infiltrator*]

I don't believe any part of Thanksgiving is at all related to anything having to do with Christianity...

[misoshiru]

^ i don't think that's what the person who said that meant. just for people who don't celebrate thanksgiving and the traditional belief of pilgrims and squanto the native american.

[HuGzNKissEs]

Everyone is sort of argueing the point that non-christians dont care....well in that case they should NOT have changed the name from Christmas tree to "holiday" tree. But in reality.....there are still a few non-christians who DO care & start rucuss about things like that. It's people who react to these things that cry until things are done their way. If only people stopped listening to them things would be done a lot better. Such as no God in school...most people who dont believe in God wouldn't give a care if I stood up & prayed during class...they just wouldn't participate. But its the few that do argue about it that get to make the decision....SO unfair!

[*StanleyThePanda*]

they stopped calling it christmas trees?

Some places did....

Sammi- I am a christian, and I agree with you....Thanksgiving doesnt really have any relations to Christianity, only that people say they are thankful that Jesus died for them....but the actually history of thanksgiving has nothing to do with christianity.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Everyone is sort of argueing the point that non-christians dont care....well in that case they should NOT have changed the name from Christmas tree to "holiday" tree.  But in reality.....there are still a few non-christians who DO care & start rucuss about things like that.  It's people who react to these things that cry until things are done their way.  If only people stopped listening to them things would be done a lot better.  Such as no God in school...most people who dont believe in God wouldn't give a care if I stood up & prayed during class...they just wouldn't participate.  But its the few that do argue about it that get to make the decision....SO unfair!

Ok. Just to clear something up...

Praying in a public school is a LOT different than calling a Christmas tree a "Christmas tree". I would be extremely upset if my school set a "prayer time" during school and simply told me I don't have to participate. That's infringing on the law of the country, not just making me feel inferior. If someone calls it a Christmas tree, because it belongs to the Christmas holiday, what do I care? I'm not gonna go calling a menorah a "holiday candelabra". That's ridiculous.

And...why is everyone blaming this on the non-Christians? I don't know about you, but I've never seen anyone complaining about calling the Christmas tree a "Christmas tree". Ever. That would be ridiculous. Why would we complain about something that's specific to that holiday? Did you ever think the stores simply did it on their own accord, realizing that non-Christians do celebrate the giving and sharing aspect of Christmas, to make more money?

[sadolakced acid]

mayhaps we should note that this push comes to appease not nonchristians, but devout christians who feel thier holiday has been perverted.

mayhaps we should also note that the christians took pagan holidays and made them thier own, including christmas.

[HuGzNKissEs]

disco infiltrator...you clearly misevaluate my posts. You must believe that I have something against non-christians....which i DONT. My brother is non-christian & i respect him & love him to death. In my post i simply argued about the few non-christians that choose to take away the few rights christians have left religion-wise. If you allow me to pray to God as I please then I have nothing against you. Once again, your beliefs are YOURS which you may freely voice...as long as I am aloud to voice mine as well. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I am not hear to hurt anyone's feelings

[Mulder]

disco infiltrator...you clearly misevaluate my posts.  You must believe that I have something against non-christians....which i DONT.  My brother is non-christian & i respect him & love him to death.  In my post i simply argued about the few non-christians that choose to take away the few rights christians have left religion-wise.  If you allow me to pray to God as I please then I have nothing against you.  Once again, your beliefs are YOURS which you may freely voice...as long as I am aloud to voice mine as well.  Sorry for the misunderstanding, I am not hear to hurt anyone's feelings

i bolded a word.
how do christians exactly only have a few religious rights left in this country? its a christian country! all of the presidents have been christian. schools let out for the christmas holiday. stores put out christmas trees. carolers go in front of everyones houses.

need i say more?


im gonna go out door by door and sing dreidel. we'll see what happens.

[sadolakced acid]

disco infiltrator...you clearly misevaluate my posts.  You must believe that I have something against non-christians....which i DONT.  My brother is non-christian & i respect him & love him to death.  In my post i simply argued about the few non-christians that choose to take away the few rights christians have left religion-wise.  If you allow me to pray to God as I please then I have nothing against you.  Once again, your beliefs are YOURS which you may freely voice...as long as I am aloud to voice mine as well.  Sorry for the misunderstanding, I am not hear to hurt anyone's feelings

might i point out that christmas was a pagan ritual stolen by the early christian church in order to allow pagans to convert to christianity while keeping thier festivals? (or prevent them from celebrating pagan festivals, whichever camp you follow)

[Spirited Away]

Everyone is sort of argueing the point that non-christians dont care....well in that case they should NOT have changed the name from Christmas tree to "holiday" tree.   But in reality.....there are still a few non-christians who DO care & start rucuss about things like that.  It's people who react to these things that cry until things are done their way.  If only people stopped listening to them things would be done a lot better.  Such as no God in school...most people who dont believe in God wouldn't give a care if I stood up & prayed during class...they just wouldn't participate.  But its the few that do argue about it that get to make the decision....SO unfair!

The originator of this thread did not specify WHO it was that alter the name Christmas tree to "holiday" tree. Can you? Actually, it seems you think non-Christians are the ones responsible for the new name. Am I reading that correctly? You don't think Christians aren't capable of wanting to target new markets to gain money?

You make it sound like the non-Christians who do care are whiners. What about Christians who have a problem with the new "holiday tree" name? I can assure you that Christians are crying and are starting a "rucuss" until things are done their way, too. If people would stop listening to these Christians, things would be better as well. Now that's fairness.

disco infiltrator...you clearly misevaluate my posts. You must believe that I have something against non-christians....which i DONT. My brother is non-christian & i respect him & love him to death. In my post i simply argued about the few non-christians that choose to take away the few rights christians have left religion-wise. If you allow me to pray to God as I please then I have nothing against you. Once again, your beliefs are YOURS which you may freely voice...as long as I am aloud to voice mine as well. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I am not hear to hurt anyone's feelings

I had to laugh at that. Is that what you truly think? That Christians have "few" rights? If so, then non-Christians have no rights at all base on your scale of what is "few". For example, "schools observe Christian holidays but not Muslim, Jewish, Hindu... etc holidays. Test won't be given on Christian holidays (mostly because we're conveniently out of school), yet it is not taken into consideration that exams are given during the holidays of other religions. So, Christians get a perk at the "expense" of other religions. I don't think that's fair either, but it seems that's the way this society works, right? Winners and losers. You can't win all the time." [by me in a similar thread]

No one is forbidding you to pray to God, nor is anyone forbidding any Christian to use the term "Christmas tree", but it seems Christians are wanting to forbid the term "holiday tree" simply because it's un-Christian. Talk about few rights.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10355980/
Cracks me up that this is a religious free country, but many petty jealousies conveniently put a cap on that which the US Constitution so clearly states. There are fanatics, like a Mr. Wildmon, who would be miffed that the President helped Muslims celebrate Ramadan and wish his friends and family a "Happy Holiday Season". It seems this man is unreasonably jealous that Muslims have a place in the White House. And while Rev Jerry Falwell may believe that this is a nation "under God", not every citizen—with the same rights to liberty as he, believes so. It is discriminating, demeaningly so when he tries to pass it off as a fact. However, the one truth that we must all be subjected to, as it is HISTORY and the LAW, is the United States of America was founded on the basis of religious freedom, not the freedom to worship God alone.

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Dec 7 2005, 01:14 PM

[HuGzNKissEs]

I had to laugh at that. Is that what you truly think? That Christians have "few" rights? If so, then non-Christians have no rights at all base on your scale of what is "few". For example, "schools observe Christian holidays but not Muslim, Jewish, Hindu... etc holidays. Test won't be given on Christian holidays (mostly because we're conveniently out of school), yet it is not taken into consideration that exams are given during the holidays of other religions. So, Christians get a perk at the "expense" of other religions. I don't think that's fair either, but it seems that's the way this society works, right? Winners and losers. You can't win all the time." [by me in a similar thread]

Oh is that right? schools observe Christian holidays?? Actually my school refers to them as "winter" holidays. & we are out of school throughout the days of Haunnakah(sp?) as well. We have school on Ash Wednesday even though it's a holy day of obligation. Our vacation which falls during the Christian holiday of Easter is called "spring break" And we have school on Holy Thursday, which is also a church day for my family.

[Spirited Away]

Oh is that right? schools observe Christian holidays??  Actually my school refers to them as "winter" holidays.  & we are out of school throughout the days of Haunnakah(sp?) as well.  We have school on Ash Wednesday even though it's a holy day of obligation.  Our vacation which falls during the Christian holiday of Easter is called "spring break" And we have school on Holy Thursday, which is also a church day for my family.

How much of my post did you really read? Are you telling me that you're given TESTS/EXAMS on Christian holidays? For your information, and you can easily research this, examinations were given on the celebration of Eid al-Fitr, one of the two most important Islamic holiday that is observed at the end of Ramadan, at the University of Houston-Main campus. My best friend, and others, had no choice but to skip this celebration to take an exam that had no make up date. Are you telling me that this happens to Christians? Has a Christian ever had to make a decision to take a test on Christmas or not?

They are appropriately called the Winter Holidays because that is a historical fact. As a Christian you should know the history of Christmas like the back of your hand, so do not be surpprised that schools are adopting a more historically correct , albeit more secular terminology.

And last, but not least, why can't a spring break be called spring break? The University of Houston's spring vacations falls in March. Easter is still Easter to those who wish to celebrate it. About your school district, at least you are able to get out for a week before your religion's holiday. Can you tell me which schools allow this for, oh, lets say Jews, Muslims or Hindus?

[sadolakced acid]

i believe christmas day is a national holiday, as well.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Oh is that right? schools observe Christian holidays??  Actually my school refers to them as "winter" holidays.  & we are out of school throughout the days of Haunnakah(sp?) as well.  We have school on Ash Wednesday even though it's a holy day of obligation.  Our vacation which falls during the Christian holiday of Easter is called "spring break" And we have school on Holy Thursday, which is also a church day for my family.

Yea, um, we don't. We go back on the last day of Hannukah. This is the first year I have ever gotten off for that many days of Hannukah, not counting weekends. Do the students in your school get off for Ramadan?

Oh, and go to your school and tell them you didn't come to school because it was Ash Wednesday. You will be completely excused, and have a day to make up your assignements, no questions asked.

I, however, have tried getting off for Rosh Hashana (which I had an exam on, by the way) at my school, but they said no. I would have been counted as absent and I wouldn't be able to make up my exam, because it was a final. Hence, I was forced to skip attending services at the local temple with my mother and sister. (She's in middle school; she doesn't have finals, so she just skipped.)

How in the world is this fair? I don't know WHERE you get the idea that Christians are at all limited in their influence and rights in this country, but you should try being in a non-Christian's shoes for once. Your perception would differ so greatly it would knock you out of said shoes.

[sadolakced acid]

christians are severly limited in thier rights if they consider being able to kill those who don't believe in christ, like in the middle ages, a right.

[Spirited Away]

christians are severly limited in thier rights if they consider being able to kill those who don't believe in christ, like in the middle ages, a right.

i think they'll want those rights back sooner or later.






kidding~~

[HolyMoly]

THATS DUMB. I like Christmas! Even if they change it, people won't stop sayin it.

[krispy_kreme333]

I know that at Target and Lowes they sell Holiday Trees.
Also, at Starbucks, the employees can't say Merry Christmas to their customers, but they play Christmas music.

[lakerfever2476]

I don't really see how Buddhists get to celebrate Christmas. They don't believe in the concept of God, they don't believe Jesus really had powers, etc. And yet they consider themselves part of the festivities of Christmas. I'm not saying this to put anyone down, but it was a point my Sunday school teacher was trying to make. Sorry if it's kind of off-topic.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Christmas is a National Holiday, so anyone can celebrate it, just without the religious roots tied to it.

[Spirited Away]

I don't really see how Buddhists get to celebrate Christmas. They don't believe in the concept of God, they don't believe Jesus really had powers, etc.  And yet they consider themselves part of the festivities of Christmas. I'm not saying this to put anyone down, but it was a point my Sunday school teacher was trying to make. Sorry if it's kind of off-topic.

Tell me exactly how Buddhists celebrate Christmas. Do these Buddhists go to Christians' church for Mass and/or pray to God or thank the Christian Lord? No, they don't. Obviously, you're not "seeing" anything at all. Buddhists do not celebrate Christmas in the same sense that Christians celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. If they do celebrate, the purpose in which they hold celebration has NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING to do with religion, but more so of a time for togetherness, of family and friends. Your Sunday School teacher MUST learn to get over the fact that Christians DO NOT own the month of December. One more thing, learn the facts and not just hear them from a very, incredibly biased Sunday School instructor, who owns no knowledge of religion outside of Christianity. Thank you.

It's also very hard not to be offended by what you said, and the thought that an educator could mislead his pupils in defense of an inadequate claim scares the heck out of me. Why? One word: Brainwash.

*Whew* Just had to get that off my chest.

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Dec 13 2005, 08:09 PM

[lilliannnn]

This was on the news today.

This really pisses me off because people CAN'T BE MAD that people are selling "Christmas trees", "Christmas decorations". Or that we have "Christmas colors" or have "Christmas specials" on TV. Christianity is the most wide-spread religion in America, what do you expect?

I do agree though, that we should say Happy Holidays to people that we don't know of their religion.

EDITEDITEDITEDIT

Christmas is a National Holiday, so anyone can celebrate it, just without the religious roots tied to it.

This is an extremely good point. People shouldn't be getting mad/upset because Christmas is a Nationl Holiday and can be celebrated by anyone without being religious about it. It's like (St.) Valentine's Day or St. Patrick's Day. You don't see non-Christians getting mad that stores are selling things related to these CHRISTIAN HOLIDAYS, plus most non-Christian celebrate these holidays, too.

[sadolakced acid]

I don't really see how Buddhists get to celebrate Christmas. They don't believe in the concept of God, they don't believe Jesus really had powers, etc.  And yet they consider themselves part of the festivities of Christmas. I'm not saying this to put anyone down, but it was a point my Sunday school teacher was trying to make. Sorry if it's kind of off-topic.

as a buddhist (well, family is) who celebrates christmas, i'll tell you how i celebrate christmas.

we believe in the concept of jesus as having reached enlightenment.

we do not celebrate his birthday. we do not attend christmas mass or set up naivity scences.

we celebrate christmas, the season of giving.

yes, christmas is all about the gifts. it's about giving the perfect gift to your family members. It's about putting money in the salvation army pot. Its about helping out those whose christmas would have sucked. It's about acting the way people should all year round.

that is what christmas is about. that is what my christmas is about.

you can keep your christmas mass, and your scenes of jesus. You can keep your christmas.

let me keep my christmas as i wish.

[Spirited Away]

KLSJLDKASJ This was on the news today.

This really pisses me off because people CAN'T BE MAD that people are selling "Christmas trees", "Christmas decorations". Or that we have "Christmas colors" or have "Christmas specials" on TV. Christianity is the most wide-spread religion in America, what do you expect?

I do agree though, that we should say Happy Holidays to people that we don't know of their religion.

So it's okay for Christians to be angry at people for using terms like "holiday trees", but it's not okay for non-Christians to be mad that people sell "Christmas trees"? Is that what you're saying? I am a little confused since you're pissed at only one group of people even though both sides are guilty of the same sentiments.


Okay, now that you've edited, I see your point, but very vaguely.

This is an extremely good point. People shouldn't be getting mad/upset because Christmas is a Nationl Holiday and can be celebrated by anyone without being religious about it. It's like (St.) Valentine's Day or St. Patrick's Day. You don't see non-Christians getting mad that stores are selling things related to these CHRISTIAN HOLIDAYS, plus most non-Christian celebrate these holidays, too

See the bolded words? That's what I'm confused about still. You said people, non-Christians, get mad about "Christmas trees" and now you're saying that they don't? What did you see on the news exactly as everything I've read is contradicting.

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Dec 13 2005, 08:06 PM

[*mipadi*]

This is an extremely good point. People shouldn't be getting mad/upset because Christmas is a Nationl Holiday and can be celebrated by anyone without being religious about it. It's like (St.) Valentine's Day or St. Patrick's Day. You don't see non-Christians getting mad that stores are selling things related to these CHRISTIAN HOLIDAYS, plus most non-Christian celebrate these holidays, too.

Christmas isn't a national holiday. It's a federal holiday, meaning that federal employees get off for it, but it's not nationally recognized.

A minor point, though, that isn't crucial to the discussion. Just a factoid.

[illumineering]

I don't really see how Buddhists get to celebrate Christmas. They don't believe in the concept of God, they don't believe Jesus really had powers, etc.  And yet they consider themselves part of the festivities of Christmas. I'm not saying this to put anyone down, but it was a point my Sunday school teacher was trying to make. Sorry if it's kind of off-topic.

Your "teacher" completely missed the mark. I'd look for a new teacher if I were you. Those comments are inaccurate to say the least.

[NoSex]

I don't really see how Buddhists get to celebrate Christmas. They don't believe in the concept of God, they don't believe Jesus really had powers, etc.  And yet they consider themselves part of the festivities of Christmas. I'm not saying this to put anyone down, but it was a point my Sunday school teacher was trying to make. Sorry if it's kind of off-topic.

I don't really see how Christians get to celebrate Christmas. I mean, all they really did was hijack Saturnalia and other Pagan Festivals marking the winter solstice. It isn't like anyone honestly knows when Christ was born, or even that he was for sure. Christmas is just borrowed tradition, and pagan festivities.

Christians aren't pagans, so... why are they hijacking their festivals?

[lakerfever2476]

Hah, my Catholic teacher is a sixteen year old kid with acne. =x Well, I tried arguing it with him but he's like.. always burning me and everything. rofl

[Spirited Away]

Hah, my Catholic teacher is a sixteen year old kid with acne. =x Well, I tried arguing it with him but he's like.. always burning me and everything. rofl

uh... what? A sixteen year old Sunday School teacher? Who did the hiring? It makes no sense at all.

[lakerfever2476]

Our church isn't exactly the richest church in the world.

In fact, it's one of the poorest in America. Sorry, church. >_<

The teachers aren't even payed they just volunteer. o_o

[illumineering]

Hah, my Catholic teacher is a sixteen year old kid with acne. =x Well, I tried arguing it with him but he's like.. always burning me and everything. rofl

Might I suggest independent study?

[Spirited Away]

Our church isn't exactly the richest church in the world.

In fact, it's one of the poorest in America. Sorry, church. >_<

The teachers aren't even payed they just volunteer. o_o

First, what is your church called and where is it located. Even if these teachers are volunteers, they must have been screen through for credentials, as is the normal process for accepting volunteers. This teacher seems so ridiculous that I'm sure any sensible pastor and/or clergyman would not allow him/her to instruct Sunday School goers.

Second, to blame that your church is one of the poorest and thus cannot provide a decent teacher is absolute nonsense, in my opinion. Even the poorest church can afford to educate its staff by means of a Bible—they're free, and hire staff or accept volunteers that show common sense and tolerance, not ones that are illogical and discriminating. If your pastor or clergymen cannot provide this, then do not hold Sunday School. A simple solution to a BIG problem—one that creates unnecessary ill-wills towards other religions.

Monsieur illumineering got to you before I can but I would like to second what he said. It's not all that hard to learn about other religions. How do you suppose that, lets says an agnostic, once Buddhist, like me know things about Christianity that quite a number of Christians do not? A lot of Christians have argued in this forum that Christ was born on December 25th, however, we non-Christians know better. How do you think we know that? We certainly do not go to any agnostic or atheist school.

[sharpandcuddly]

i dont have a problem with it. there are many other holidays for other religions during the time. i mean, wouldnt you be a little bit aggrivated if right next to your "christmas trees" they were selling other religious items for the winter time? many things happen in winter
christmas, kwanzah, hannukah, new years, etc
so why shouldnt they just refer to them as "winter holidays"? they are.
and i know plenty of jewish kids who want a "winter holiday tree" to decorate themselves!

[lakerfever2476]

Yea, I heard that Dec 25 wasn't his exact birthday.

I only finished half of First Communion anyway.

My church is called St. Athanasius and I don't know if I should tell you where it's located. Even though it is pretty poor, I still love it and everything.

I dont think the teachers don't really go through any screening or anything. Maybe they didn't have a lot of instructors to choose from. I didn't like it a lot because one of the teachers kept spelling everything wrong and it was so effin annoying. The students are pretty much all into gangs. I didn't fit in.

If you were to see the campus itself, you'd be really blown away. There's soo many wear and tears. The cafeteria is the office and the auditorium put into one. The parking lot is the recess area and the basketball courts.

Unfortunately, that's the nearest church that provides Sunday School. It was my only option.

[illumineering]

Second, to blame that your church is one of the poorest and thus cannot provide a decent teacher is absolute nonsense, in my opinion. Even the poorest church can afford to educate its staff by means of a Bible—they're free, and hire staff or accept volunteers that show common sense and tolerance, not ones that are illogical and discriminating. If your pastor or clergymen cannot provide this, then do not hold Sunday School. A simple solution to a BIG problem—one that creates unnecessary ill-wills towards other religions.

I do concur. Poverty should never excuse a lack of wisdom or tolerance. The misinformation accepted under the guise of "without resources" is far more damaging that accepting the void. Maybe the church should ask itself why there are so few resources. An honest look in the mirror may do the congregation some good.

[lilliannnn]

So it's okay for Christians to be angry at people for using terms like "holiday trees", but it's not okay for non-Christians to be mad that people sell "Christmas trees"? Is that what you're saying? I am a little confused since you're pissed at only one group of people even though both sides are guilty of the same sentiments.
Okay, now that you've edited, I see your point, but very vaguely.

See the bolded words? That's what I'm confused about still. You said people, non-Christians, get mad about "Christmas trees" and now you're saying that they don't? What did you see on the news exactly as everything I've read is contradicting.

Yeah, I kind of contradicted myself, sorry.
I meant that you don't see the non-Christians getting upset over other Christian/Catholic holiday traditions.

[illumineering]

It was my only option.

No it's not. You're better off looking online, going to the library and checking out books or starting your own study group. There are other options. None of your comments about that church or the congregation have been positive. Why do you need all that negativity?

[lakerfever2476]

I said that even though it was poor, I still love it.


If you think I'm lying about the school being poor then it's ok.

[*disco infiltrator*]

We're not talking about whether your school is poor or not. That doesn't matter. You can still do independent study if the information you get at your church is unreliable.

[blackxpearl]

Christmas tree's are christmas tree's not winter trees...wtf. The occasion is called chistmas not winter, so I see what you're saying, why must they change it. I have a chistmas tree, tisel, lights, ornaments, etc and I get presents, I don't celebrate the birth of christ or whatever b.c I'm not catholic which is totally understandable, but when people get offended my one religeons occasion then f!ck them. Chistmas has been around for a long time, it's just an occasion, I don't see what's so offending about it, nobodys asking them to buy the christmas trees. I don't find any occasion of any religeon offending, except halloween, but that's a whole different story. My point is, some people are just making up excuses, to the best of my knowledge christianity is the/one of the most popular religeons, it's only a few decorations, it's not as if it's saying f!ck -insert religeon here-'s. Shops can't sell decorations for every single religeon. America, I think, is a Christian continent/country/whatever the hell america is, UK is a Protestant country, India I think is muslin I THINK, you get the idea right, what shops sell is based on what that country's main religeon is. It's not meant for offense.

[sadolakced acid]

i believe you've just set off our ignorance meter.

blackxpearl, i suggest you read through threads you post in in debate, as the debate rules state. seeing as you have done this in other threads, you have recieved a verbal warning for this.

EDIT;

here's a correction of your post:

Christmas tree's are christmas tree's not winter trees...wtf. The occasion is called chistmas not winter, so I see what you're saying, why must they change it.

rather, christmas trees (no apostrophe) are pine trees, fir trees, etc. the time is also called winter, there is no argument about that. unless you're in australia, in which case it's summer.

I have a chistmas tree, tisel, lights, ornaments, etc and I get presents, I don't celebrate the birth of christ or whatever b.c I'm not catholic which is totally understandable, but when people get offended my one religeons occasion then f!ck them.

catholic= only christians that celebrate christmas? i thought it was catholics who didn't believe in the whole commercialied thing, and were actually against the use of christmas in advertizments, etc.

something about only going to christmas mass for christmas?

note that, posted earlier in this thread :

mayhaps we should note that this push comes to appease not nonchristians, but devout christians who feel thier holiday has been perverted.

mayhaps we should also note that the christians took pagan holidays and made them thier own, including christmas.

Chistmas has been around for a long time, it's just an occasion, I don't see what's so offending about it, nobodys asking them to buy the christmas trees. I don't find any occasion of any religeon offending, except halloween, but that's a whole different story.

christmas has been around for a long time, but it wasn't called christmas.

saturnalia was a roman holiday to the god mithros, who also died to save people from sin. it's interesting to note the similarities between mithros and christ.

halloween is no more pagan than christmas, if you must know. when you put up a christmas tree you're praying to pagan gods. it's called an idol, and condemned by the church.

My point is, some people are just making up excuses, to the best of my knowledge christianity is the/one of the most popular religeons, it's only a few decorations, it's not as if it's saying f!ck -insert religeon here-'s. Shops can't sell decorations for every single religeon. America, I think, is a Christian continent/country/whatever the hell america is, UK is a Protestant country, India I think is muslin I THINK, you get the idea right, what shops sell is based on what that country's main religeon is. It's not meant for offense.

1- america has no religious affiliation.

2- you are correct in that great britian is protestant. however, we should note that the United Kingdom seems to include ireland, which also seems to be catholic.

3- India isn't muslim, it's hindu/muslim. kinda a conflict there, resulting in pakistan and a little thing called the india/pakistan war. you did say "i think", tho, for what it's worth.


it seems that in your post you assert first that christmas is not religious, then it's religious, then it's not religious, all using it to back up your point.

might also note (from this thread)

So it's okay for Christians to be angry at people for using terms like "holiday trees", but it's not okay for non-Christians to be mad that people sell "Christmas trees"? Is that what you're saying? I am a little confused since you're pissed at only one group of people even though both sides are guilty of the same sentiments.

as well as

I don't really see how Christians get to celebrate Christmas. I mean, all they really did was hijack Saturnalia and other Pagan Festivals marking the winter solstice. It isn't like anyone honestly knows when Christ was born, or even that he was for sure. Christmas is just borrowed tradition, and pagan festivities.

Christians aren't pagans, so... why are they hijacking their festivals?