Gay Marriage, Do you support or oppose? Options

[Spirited Away]

marraige between family members does not mean they will have sex for children. interfamily marraige should be legal, but their having sex is kind of messed up, because they are putting a potential child at physical risk, so that should be illegal. right now its the other way around legally.

But I'm not trying to condone incest marriages, I'm trying to explain to those who says government should not regulate how people should "love", that if gays can marry, then other groups should be able to as well. What if they know the consequences of having a child, therefore they do not have one at all, they only want to make their love legal, the same way that gays want.

They wouldn't be estranged by me, or any other open-minded people, any more than any ethnic groups are estranged. And the blame for that is not on the gay parents, but rather on the estrangees, who judge everyone for being differant.

Nor would the children be estranged by me. However, do you think that this world is full of people as open minded as yourself? Children will be children, and many children are cruel, I would know. It needn't be an adult who'll estrange children of gay marriages, it could be their own peers that will taunt them or isolate them for something out of their control.

[machinoman]

But I'm not trying to condone incest marriages, I'm trying to explain to those who says government should not regulate how people should "love", that if gays can marry, then other groups should be able to as well. What if they know the consequences of having a child, therefore they do not have one at all, they only want to make their love legal, the same way that gays want.

I believe they should be legal in those circumstances.

Nor would the children be estranged by me. However, do you think that this world is full of people as open minded as yourself? Children will be children, and many children are cruel, I would know. It needn't be an adult who'll estrange children of gay marriages, it could be their own peers that will taunt them or isolate them for something out of their control.

Children are taunted for having fat parents; That doesn't mean we should make fat marriage illegal. Although...

[Spirited Away]

I believe they should be legal in those circumstances.

And I believe that should never be legal..... *shudders*.

Children are taunted for having fat parents; That doesn't mean we should make fat marriage illegal. Although...

Firstly... HAHA

But those children are born to those parents biologically, but in the case with gay marriages, these children are adopted and they live in a not so normal household and they don't have much of a choice even though these 'parents' are not related to them in any way.

I only pity that they must go through a 'not so normal' life style for being innocently adopted. However, if/when gay marriage is legalized, I think it'll takes years for people to get used to the idea, but I suppose decades from now, things like this wouldn't be so abnormal anymore.

[machinoman]

And I believe that should never be legal..... *shudders*.



Firstly... HAHA 

But those children are born to those parents biologically, but in the case with gay marriages, these children are adopted and they live in a not so normal household and they don't have much of a choice even though these 'parents' are not related to them in any way.

I only pity that they must go through a 'not so normal' life style for being innocently adopted. However, if/when gay marriage is legalized, I think it'll takes years for people to get used to the idea, but I suppose decades from now, things like this wouldn't be so abnormal anymore.

for the first part, I think it is gross too. but that is insignificant.

for the second, if gay marriage isn't legalized, there will never be such acceptance, and the only way for gays to have children would be to marry someone they don't love, this is common nowadays. everyone should be allowed to have children.

[Spirited Away]

for the first part, I shudder as well. but that is insignificant.

I'm glad we could agree there... *whew*.

for the second, if gay marriage isn't legalized, there will never be such acceptance, and the only way for gays to have children would be to marry someone they don't love, this is common nowadays. everyone should be allowed to have children.

If one is truly gay, I don't think he/she could marry someone of the opposite sex, he/she would be against it for the most part.

I won't lie, the main reason I'm against this whole thing is that I cannot envision man and man/woman and woman, walking down the marriage ailse. There's something in me that thinks 'it's just not right'. I guess I am pretty close minded when it comes to things that are so radical in my opinion.

[machinoman]

thats fair. good debate!

[JessJR1022]

I don't think that gay marriages should be legalized at all... think about it....if a woman and a woman or a man and a man were meant to be together, they would fit better together. OUr bodies are the way they are for a reason....jus tmy thouhgts anyways

[Spirited Away]

thats fair. good debate!

glad you think so

I think I might get flamed though for saying it that way. oh well

[Retrogressive]

but see you are veiwing this as what you see "normal" as being!!! children are raised in acohlic families, in abusive families, in terrible families!! how can two people who will love a child and teach them tolerance a bad house to grow up in? how can having to loving parents teach a child peace and equality a bad thing for america???

[Spirited Away]

but see you are veiwing this as what you see "normal" as being!!! children are raised in acohlic families, in abusive families, in terrible families!! how can two people who will love a child and teach them tolerance a bad house to grow up in? how can having to loving parents teach a child peace and equality a bad thing for america???

How can you be certain that these parents will teach these children that?

Who's to say that gays never get drunk? Who's to say that gays never get violent?

[Retrogressive]

haha now your comparing them to regular people? dear lord! i

m saying gay people just want equality, they have to suffer more for that kind of crap so why would they be a bad parent? im sure there might be a bad gay parent, but the worst they could do is teach equality and love their children. whats so wrong with that? then one day maybe these lessons can teach us to hate people for who they are unstead of how they look and if they are "gay"

[Spirited Away]

haha now your comparing them to regular people? dear lord! i

m saying gay people just want equality, they have to suffer more for that kind of crap so why would they be a bad parent? im sure there might be a bad gay parent, but the worst they could do is teach equality and love their children. whats so wrong with that? then one day maybe these lessons can teach us to hate people for who they are unstead of how they look and if they are "gay"

Erm, they want equality right? So what's they problem if I'm equaly comparing them to normal people?

Back then women cannot be compared to men, women had to prove their worth in society to be accepted as 'equals', but even now the still face inequality in the job scene.

If gay people wants equality, they better fight for it. They must prove their worth to this society as women and other minorities had before them.

Who said this was going to be easy? Pfft.

Feh, so you're saying that you're sure gay parents will not abuse their children, nor will they get drunk and violent. Are you also saying that they're better than normal parents? Do you have proof of this? Do you actually live in all their homes and see for yourself how they treat their children?

[Retrogressive]

first of all its called sarcasm secoundly anyone in their right mind wouldn't go through all the adoption crap and the resentment for being gay just to hate the child they adopted.... unless they were idiots.

so your saying that they have to PROVE that they are worth being treated equally thats ludacris!! no one should have to PROVE to be treated equally thats the exact additude most americans have. they should be treated equally, not have to fight for their right to be treated equally this is america not some middle eastern country who believes in beating women and treating only certain people properly.

and why shouldn't it be easy? the fact that america isn't going to let this be "easy" is so disturbing, why should we fight as a united country that stands for freedom for the same crap that most people have been fighting for since this country was founded? are we not moving forward? just still in our close minded views on whats "right" only according to some people.

and what was that post of comparing me to someone as close minded? i didn't quite understand what you were saying.

[Spirited Away]

first of all its called sarcasm secoundly anyone in their right mind wouldn't go through all the adoption crap and the resentment for being gay just to hate the child they adopted.... unless they were idiots.

I'm sorry, I'm kind of slow on the sarcasm bit. I have to work on mine.

You would be surprised at what people would go through to adopt, and then to throw all that hard work away. No one's perfect. Are you saying that gays are so perfect that they won't ever turn a bad hand in raising their children?

so your saying that they have to PROVE that they are worth being treated equally thats ludacris!! no one should have to PROVE to be treated equally thats the exact additude most americans have. they should be treated equally, not have to fight for their right to be treated equally this is america not some middle eastern country who believes in beating women and treating only certain people properly.

SO you're saying that everything in the world should come easily. Why, we could just sit in one place and world peace will automatically work itself out? Martin Luther King didn't have to do all those speeches and neither did Susan B. Anthony, they just wasted their time because the whole world's so open minded.

Personally, because of the fact that I, and so many others, are closed minded about gay marriages, it's up to them to prove us wrong. That's what I meant by proving their worth. Others have trodden on the same path to find freedom, why are gays be so special that we must hand everything to them on a silver platter?

and why shouldn't it be easy? the fact that america isn't going to let this be "easy" is so disturbing, why should we fight as a united country that stands for freedom

While you find my opinions disturbing, I find that legalizing gay marriages is disturbing.

If this country was purely about freedom, then we wouldn't need a government. We would all be anarchists. I'm almost positive that the founding fathers would never have thought that this generation would take the word "freedom" to a whole new level.

and what was that post of comparing me to someone as close minded? i didn't quite understand what you were saying.

I believe I called myself close minded just a couple of posts ago. Do excuse me for not understanding what you're talking about.

[Retrogressive]

no no no. im not saying that at all. gays shouldn't be "handed the silver platter" because they are gay im saying that all of this stuff, womens rights, black ineqaulity, everything should have been repected enough within our own people instead of going through the same thing that is dividing this country. we should learn from our mistakes instead of just go through the same thing every generation!! its aweful that we haven't learned to execpt each other though we have been learning the same lesson. though our country was based on us being ridiculed and moked because we were differnt... and so on.

and i know not all gay people are kind compassionate parents. but why tell a parentless child that they may never have a chance of adoption and they will eventually land on the streets then just letting them have a family who loves them who provides for them.

there is no issue on children. since when has bush been concerened with children? since when has anyone lately its only because people don't want other people to be happy... or at least that's what i am seeing.

children have gay parents in america already, what if a woman decided to have a child with a man who was her friend and she was a lesbian? and she had discussed with the man that she would be raising the child with her partner and he agreed. what is america going to take that baby away from his or her mother???

[Spirited Away]

no no no. im not saying that at all. gays shouldn't be "handed the silver platter" because they are gay im saying that all of this stuff, womens rights, black ineqaulity, everything should have been repected enough within our own people instead of going through the same thing that is dividing this country. we should learn from our mistakes instead of just go through the same thing every generation!! its aweful that we haven't learned to execpt each other though we have been learning the same lesson. though our country was based on us being ridiculed and moked because we were differnt... and so on.

But since when are human so receptive in 'not making the same mistake twice'? If everyone were to agree to that, then we wouldn't be having this conversation .

By saying that we should just legalize it without qualm is basically "handing them everything on a silver platter" (forks and knives too). If things were that easy, then all sorts of groups would want to legalize their union: incest, 40 yr old adults and 10 year old kids, teachers and students... etc.

and i know not all gay people are kind compassionate parents. but why tell a parentless child that they may never have a chance of adoption and they will eventually land on the streets then just letting them have a family who loves them who provides for them.

But it depends on whether or not that child have the mentality or will that it takes to live with parents who are not so normal. Some children may not mind at first, but what do children know about cruelty until they face it themselves? An older child may decide that he/she can live with these parents, but how can an infant let that be known? We would subject a child to a life of taunts and isolation by his/her own peers.

there is no issue on children. since when has bush been concerened with children? since when has anyone lately its only because people don't want other people to be happy... or at least that's what i am seeing.

Even if Bush is not concerned with children doesn't mean that society has forsaken them. So you're saying that people like me do not want to see others happy? What about yourself? Do you not want these children to be happy? How do you know they can stand up to it?

children have gay parents in america already, what if a woman decided to have a child with a man who was her friend and she was a lesbian? and she had discussed with the man that she would be raising the child with her partner and he agreed. what is america going to take that baby away from his or her mother???

True, I'm in a work environment where I'm aware of the fact that gay couples have children in their custody. We wouldn't have a right to take away that baby, but if you care so much about someone's happiness, why do you not consider that happiness of this child? What if the child wanted to live in a normal household, with his/her biological father?

[Retrogressive]

of course your deffinition of normal must be right? you can't use that arguement because not child is asked to be born into an abuse family, into no family, into slavery, into a rich family, into a poor family, into a family where the father has died. see? its not like where are putting children into the holocaust! no one is asked to be born in certain situations. or to have a family that is a little quirky.

[Spirited Away]

of course your deffinition of normal must be right? you can't use that arguement because not child is asked to be born into an abuse family, into no family, into slavery, into a rich family, into a poor family, into a family where the father has died. see? its not like where are putting children into the holocaust! no one is asked to be born in certain situations. or to have a family that is a little quirky.

So just because 'no one is asked to be born in certain situations' means that we have no right to interfere with their lives? What if we can prevent them from having to go through that suffering? I certainly would want to prevent it before it happens.

Normal doesn't necessarily means right either. After all, I don't think Galileo was considered to be 'normal' in his era. But like I've told Machinoman before, I can't help but to find a man and man/woman and woman walking down the marriage ailse disturbing, and I'm positive that I'm not alone in feeling that way. Legalizing gay marriage may not be so abnormal for me years from now, but presently, this is just how I, and many others feel.

Edit:: Nice chatting with you, but I have to sleep. Goodnight.

[Retrogressive]

why isn' t anyone interfering with everyone else lives to make them normal then? because everyone is threatened by this "new" (which dates back to the romans long long ago) homosexual lifestyle.

we are threatened by what isn't safe by what isn't "normal"

im sorry you feel that way :) maybe one day you will feel differntly maybe you won't. but its not up to us to decide who should be happy and who shouldn't that's dictatorship and that isn't america :)

ditto, nice debating see you soon :) (zzzzzzzz)

[Spirited Away]

why isn' t anyone interfering with everyone else lives to make them normal then? because everyone is threatened by this "new" (which dates back to the romans long long ago) homosexual lifestyle.

If you mean for children, we already are trying do it. We have social services come to pick up an abused child.

I can understand that homosexuality isn't anything new, but legalizing their union is very new. And anything that's new, and shocking will need to have some time for people adjusting to it. Though, I don't think the majority of the population will 'get over it' so quickly.

we are threatened by what isn't safe by what isn't "normal"

Each and everyone of us has a right to be hesitant about anything out of the ordinary, that's how humans have been surviving since the begining. We do not embrace every new concept with open arms.

im sorry you feel that way :) maybe one day you will feel differntly maybe you won't. but its not up to us to decide who should be happy and who shouldn't that's dictatorship and that isn't america :)

Maybe. America would still be a long way off of being a dictatorship, even if she denies gay marriage.

ditto, nice debating see you soon :) (zzzzzzzz)  

Good morning....

[WildGriffin]

I can understand that homosexuality isn't anything new, but legalizing their union is very new. And anything that's new, and shocking will need to have some time for people adjusting to it. Though, I don't think the majority of the population will 'get over it' so quickly.

Take that whole "non-whites are just as equal" shtick. Some people still have a hard time with that, and its been like...a while. *mumble* stupid redneck imbreds.

Denying gay marriage is a waste of time. There's no real harm in it, and it only serves to show how backwards America really is.

We feign understaning, "freedom", and open-mindedness. Truth is alot of other countries have gotten over the whole race/gay thing, and we're just lagging behind. My guess, too many redneck conservatives in power.

[Spirited Away]

Take that whole "non-whites are just as equal" shtick. Some people still have a hard time with that, and its been like...a while. *mumble* stupid redneck imbreds.

Denying gay marriage is a waste of time. There's no real harm in it, and it only serves to show how backwards America really is.

We feign understaning, "freedom", and open-mindedness. Truth is alot of other countries have gotten over the whole race/gay thing, and we're just lagging behind. My guess, too many redneck conservatives in power.

I'm not a red neck nor am I Christian, but I can't stand seeing straight people making out in front of me (I would consider it obnoxiously rude), let alone man and man/woman and woman smooching.

Anyway, I'll come back to this later... must work.

[WildGriffin]

Anyway, I'll come back to this later... must work.

Psssh, college kids and their "work". Thank god I have another year before those horrid times.

[kantoaznboi]

i cant believe that this topic is even being debated on or y it should be even question if gays, lesbians should be able 2 marry. y do we continue 2 discriminate gays and lesbians by not letting them marry. i cant believe that ppl have a stick in the ass just cause of the meaning of the word, marry. they say its a union between a man and a women, y not change it 2 a union between 2 ppl who share a common bond. i mean, come on now. gahhh ppl can be so ignorant.

just let them marry

[WildGriffin]

i cant believe that this topic is even being debated on or y it should be even question if gays, lesbians should be able 2 marry. y do we continue 2 discriminate gays and lesbians by not letting them marry. i cant believe that ppl have a stick in the ass just cause of the meaning of the word, marry. they say its a union between a man and a women, y not change it 2 a union between 2 ppl who share a common bond. i mean, come on now. gahhh ppl can be so ignorant.

just let them marry

Seriously, this day and age; you'd think stupid things like this wouldn't even be an issue.