Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It'd be one thing to say, "I've never even heard of this", but actually making an argument based off of the premise that no such instance exists is a presumptive fallacy.

"And why in the hell would anyone go on a field trip to a gay marriage? Why would any wedding be a field trip?" declines to object in its complicity. You're accepting her premise of it somehow being a corruptible moment, but that it would never happen to begin with. Only after an example was shown did you say, "Actually, what's wrong with that in the first place?"

Also, it was described as "a teachable moment." The parameters that it was permitted under were to "teach respect for marriage and committed relationships."



Except that's what she said: they would do that, in order to illustrate how it doesn't make sense to chalk up secular issues like this as "brainwashing" when young children are systematically indoctrinated to believe in something they don't even understand under religious exaction. "Would" is conditional.



Yes. Yes, it is.

Well, I just disagree with the fact that there is, in fact, two sides to the argument. Creationism and Evolution. Sure, there is no "scientific basis" for creationism because it is not a scientific theory. Evolution is, therefore it is going to have plenty of "scientific basis." But it also has many, many holes in it and connections that cant seem to be made.
There are archeological findings that prove that the Bible is accurate on more than one account. And since the Bible is the basis of the Creationism theory, I think that is considered to be evidence enough.

But, I dont like how only evolution is taught when there is clearly an alternative... Its biased. Its not giving the children in the schools a chance to make a decision for themselves. Just imagine if only creationism was taught... how unfair would that be?



Enlighten me, please.



We're over the brainwashing thing. I said I was wrong. *sniff*

do something: your final point about creationism is what i had said earlier.
i agree with you

Thank you.

This is a given in any scientific subject. The role of science is to patch these holes as more information comes to fruition through research and evidence-based piecing.



We not only have systematic alterations through consecutively-occurring instances of time in the fossil record, but we have physically observed evolution on the microbial level, such as the development of antibiotic resistances in bacteria.



I actually agree with you on the point of those kids singing praise to Barack Obama. That's why I liken teaching religion to young children who don't understand what it is that they're believing to indoctrinating them under a certain political belief.

its BLAQ
anyway how can it stop its growth? you honestly believe that children are going to come home and be like
"hey mom i learned that i can marry a boy/girl"

just because that class surprised their teacher at her wedding its not like the school has planned the trip as part of their curriculum. No school will.

But, we havent reached that level yet, have we? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.



You dont have to try to impress me with your big words. I barely understood anything you just said.

So, its a complex theory.. still has holes and cant be connected at certain places.



A rational person, thank you.

Would it not have to be described as a "teachable moment" to qualify for a field trip at all?

You're reading too much into this. I thought her mentioning that when I didn't know better was absurd because I did not think any wedding would be an acceptable field trip.

But, if weddings somehow do qualify for field trips, then I don't really see the issue regarding that one, because of course the parents did not have to let their children go.

lmfao, you didn't get that?
anyway theres holes in pretty much everything. Can't be too sure on much anymore.
science and religion. some of their theories have physical evidence while others don't.

They dont.



I mostly just skipped over it.

Maybe it just seems like all theories have holes in them, but does everyone really research enough into each one of them to see if there really are holes... or if they just refuse to believe in them for some reason?

true, which the point i'm trying to point to Joss-eh-lime. who thinks that somehow her brother is going to go to one. Its not going to happen . It was a surprise trip that had nothing to do with the school.

Prove it's accurate on what sort of account? Historical things?

There is not clearly an alternative. The alternative you speak of is based entirely off of a religious text, which means that it has no place in public schools. And why were you arguing with me on the need to let kids make decisions for themselves when apparently you agree?


I agreed with you on that one too...

Ya.... but it might happen again. People are bold. You think something like this will only happen once? Maybe not the exact thing, but people are still going to try to push their lifestyle on others. On children.

Humor me. Give evidence for your claims. You keep saying there are holes in the evolutionary theory, but you haven't given any of them. You haven't given any facts to support anything you've said. This is supposed to be a debate, not a place for you to get on your soapbox and spout your beliefs with nothing backing them.


But it's OK for you to push your lifestyle on everyone else including children?

sure its likely to happen again, but a parent has a say in it. If they feel they don't want their child to attend then they don't have to sign and let their kid miss the day. Its as simple as that.



amen to that

So what if it is a historical/religious text. Just because it is not a scientific theory doesnt throw it out the window. Its a theory, none the less.

And, you said that if I wanted my children to learn about creationism, I should send them to Sunday School... Thats why Im disagreeing with you.


Oh, sorry. Wonderful.

Okay....hold on.



Im not pushing my beliefs on anyone. This is a debate forum, jackass.

And if they are my children, I can teach them what I believe in and what I think would be best for them to believe in. You, as well with your children.


^ditto.





Oh, no I double posted. Woops.

We're on a far, far lower level without the evidence and information that we do have once you turn to creationist explanations.



In other words, we have cases of very slight changes in fossils that incrementally occur as time passes on. For example, there are instances of fish that are identical to their predecessors except for having morphed primitive forelimb arrangements more similar to amphibian patterns.



I'd go so far as to say that I can address any hole you perceive evolution to possess.



It would. That's why it doesn't make sense for you to have thought that it didn't.



This wasn't it. You didn't merely say, "That would never happen." If you had, there would be no inconsistency. You actually asked why anyone would even do that all. Both are a declination to objection, and are different from later saying, "So what if that even happens, when it would be educational?"

I was simply making a point. You think it's so horrible for society to teach about other ways of life, including what you consider to be "wrong" yet at the same time, want evolution to be taught along side creationism. That is pushing your lifestyle on other people. If we were to treat all theories equally we should teach every culture's theory on where human life came from. Regardless of if there is any factual basis.

No, my question about whether the archaeological findings were historical was serious. I'm not sure what findings you were referring to, but if all they did was confirm that events things recorded in the bible aligned with history, it's irrelevant to whether creationism is true. (It's getting late, so I apologize if my rhetoric is confusing.)

And so what if it's a religious text? That would (generally) disqualify it to be taught in public schools.


That's not really inconsistency. I asked why anyone would do it at all in a rhetorical sense because i didn't, and still don't, think that a wedding is a legitimate field trip. But in the event that it did/could happen, of course there would need to be a case for it to be educational. The hypothetical basis was not in question.

I agree. Teach every theory or none at all. I dont think that is pushing my views.. I think that is equal.
I take it you believe in evolution(correct me if im wrong), so if only creationism was taught in public schools, would you be "pushing your views" on others by insisting that Evolution be taught alongside it?


Well, I found an interesting web page that documents some archeological findings that prove the Bible is historically accurate: Sodom and Gomorrah, Jericho..

http://www.defendingyourfaith.org/Archaeology.htm

This is an interview with a creationist archeologist which I found interesting:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v...chaeologist.asp




Ya, it is getting late..
The findings prove that the Bible is true. If the Bible is true, then creationism must be true cause it comes straight from the Bible.



You seem very intelligent. But, Im wondering... have you studied the creationism theory as thoroughly as the evolution theory?

Whoa whoa whoa, no findings have found that "the Bible is true."

I need to sleep, so I'll leave it there, but there is absolutely no way that statement is true.

*sigh* ... on more than one account.

Actually I'm more fond of the Intelligent Design theory. I think the evolutionary theory should be taught in schools simply because it does have scientific evidence backing it. If the parents of the children wish to teach them differently that is completely up to them. But to be completely honest, no Biology class is going to teach a non scientific theory. Creationism is not a scientific theory, it's from the Bible. Not a text book.

Not that it matters, but I'm sure it's going to come up, I am a Christian. I just hate when people shove Christianity down other people's throats, and hate it even more when they do it without even providing any scriptural evidence.

Let me know at any point if Im shoving it down people's throats. I dont think I am.. just because I have a differing opinion doesnt mean Im forcing it on anyone.

It irritates me when people do that too.