Winter Holiday? Options

[DisneyPrincessKa...]

Around here places are no longer selling Christmas trees. They are selling Holiday trees instead. People refrain from using the term Christmas tree for fear of offending those who do not celebrate Christmas. I am unaware of any holiday during december that uses a Christmas tree, so why do we need to change the name?

Now, Christmas is the most main stread holiday out there. Not everyone celebrates it, but it is very highly advertised. If it is such a popular holiday why must the media deny it's meaning? It celebrates the birth of Christ, however people often dance around that because they do not want to offend others.

Should there be a new holiday for buying presents, one that has no religious ties? Or should Chirstmas be Christmas and not "The Winter Holiday"? I'd especially like to hear from those of you who do not celebrate Christmas.

[Spirited Away]

Who are these "people" that do not want of offend non-Christians? Are they Christians, non-Christians, or both? The media denies its meaning how and in what way? Can you give us an example? In turn, I shall name the many ways non-Christians are denied (but maybe that's for another debate). Though Christmas officially celebrates Christ's birth (belated), the Winter holidays is just as meaningful for non-Christians to observe. In fact, non-Christians have celebrated the Winter holidays centuries before Christ was born. What problem do you see with people "dancing around" Christians' meaning of Christmas? Perhaps you have mistaken their tune. People may use whatever terms they wish depending on how they perceive the meaning of Christmas and the Winter holidays.

Maybe folks in your area are merely trying to target the non-Christian market by using alternate, less religious terms. In Texas, Houston at least, we still have Christmas trees and plenty of talk about Christ's birth.

Christmas is Christmas to Christians, but the day is also part of the Winter holidays for non-Christians, why should there be a new, separate holiday? Non-Christians don't have a problem with Christians celebrating Christmas, unless Christians are holding a grudge with the rest of the world celebrating the Winter holidays, there shouldn't be a problem.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Yea um...I don't think I've ever met a non-Christian who's upset about the way Christmas comes about. Perhaps the giant amount of advertising and recognition Christmas gets and not other holidays, but...never upset about Christmas itself.

[saintruthanne]

It's just like Thanksgiving being named Turkey Day; people don't want God or Christ affiliated with any holiday. Soon Easter will be "Bunny Day" or "Happy Egg Day" or something silly like that.

[illumineering]

If the "official" name of a tree has the capacity to disrupt the inherent meaning of the Christmas season, the truth was lost long before the "Holiday Tree" was vogue.

[*StanleyThePanda*]

Yea um...I don't think I've ever met a non-Christian who's upset about the way Christmas comes about. Perhaps the giant amount of advertising and recognition Christmas gets and not other holidays, but...never upset about Christmas itself.

I dont think its really "non-christians" who are offended, but uhm any other religion that doesnt celebrate Christmas...You know what Im saying?
like some stores (kohls for example) arent allowed to say "Merry Christmas" because they might offend someone who doesnt celebrate it because of whatever religion they are....

But I personally think its silly....
Cause if the people who get offended, dont celebrate Christmas, then they should get a tree.....IMO

[Mulder]

Yea um...I don't think I've ever met a non-Christian who's upset about the way Christmas comes about. Perhaps the giant amount of advertising and recognition Christmas gets and not other holidays, but...never upset about Christmas itself.

i agree. its not like i expect every store to have a "hannukah sale" or anything. im not offended by Christmas's recognition.

[Gigi]

It's just like Thanksgiving being named Turkey Day; people don't want God or Christ affiliated with any holiday. Soon Easter will be "Bunny Day" or "Happy Egg Day" or something silly like that.

What part of the name "Thanksgiving" is related to Christ? While "Christmas" is blatantly referring to Christ...you can't really use that example.

[Tribal J_Rome]

that's real stupid, why would u need a "holiday" tree other than to celebrate christmas. it's the only reason they sell them this time of year.....

[sense.n.style]

they stopped calling it christmas trees?

[*disco infiltrator*]

I don't believe any part of Thanksgiving is at all related to anything having to do with Christianity...

[misoshiru]

^ i don't think that's what the person who said that meant. just for people who don't celebrate thanksgiving and the traditional belief of pilgrims and squanto the native american.

[HuGzNKissEs]

Everyone is sort of argueing the point that non-christians dont care....well in that case they should NOT have changed the name from Christmas tree to "holiday" tree. But in reality.....there are still a few non-christians who DO care & start rucuss about things like that. It's people who react to these things that cry until things are done their way. If only people stopped listening to them things would be done a lot better. Such as no God in school...most people who dont believe in God wouldn't give a care if I stood up & prayed during class...they just wouldn't participate. But its the few that do argue about it that get to make the decision....SO unfair!

[*StanleyThePanda*]

they stopped calling it christmas trees?

Some places did....

Sammi- I am a christian, and I agree with you....Thanksgiving doesnt really have any relations to Christianity, only that people say they are thankful that Jesus died for them....but the actually history of thanksgiving has nothing to do with christianity.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Everyone is sort of argueing the point that non-christians dont care....well in that case they should NOT have changed the name from Christmas tree to "holiday" tree.  But in reality.....there are still a few non-christians who DO care & start rucuss about things like that.  It's people who react to these things that cry until things are done their way.  If only people stopped listening to them things would be done a lot better.  Such as no God in school...most people who dont believe in God wouldn't give a care if I stood up & prayed during class...they just wouldn't participate.  But its the few that do argue about it that get to make the decision....SO unfair!

Ok. Just to clear something up...

Praying in a public school is a LOT different than calling a Christmas tree a "Christmas tree". I would be extremely upset if my school set a "prayer time" during school and simply told me I don't have to participate. That's infringing on the law of the country, not just making me feel inferior. If someone calls it a Christmas tree, because it belongs to the Christmas holiday, what do I care? I'm not gonna go calling a menorah a "holiday candelabra". That's ridiculous.

And...why is everyone blaming this on the non-Christians? I don't know about you, but I've never seen anyone complaining about calling the Christmas tree a "Christmas tree". Ever. That would be ridiculous. Why would we complain about something that's specific to that holiday? Did you ever think the stores simply did it on their own accord, realizing that non-Christians do celebrate the giving and sharing aspect of Christmas, to make more money?

[sadolakced acid]

mayhaps we should note that this push comes to appease not nonchristians, but devout christians who feel thier holiday has been perverted.

mayhaps we should also note that the christians took pagan holidays and made them thier own, including christmas.

[HuGzNKissEs]

disco infiltrator...you clearly misevaluate my posts. You must believe that I have something against non-christians....which i DONT. My brother is non-christian & i respect him & love him to death. In my post i simply argued about the few non-christians that choose to take away the few rights christians have left religion-wise. If you allow me to pray to God as I please then I have nothing against you. Once again, your beliefs are YOURS which you may freely voice...as long as I am aloud to voice mine as well. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I am not hear to hurt anyone's feelings

[Mulder]

disco infiltrator...you clearly misevaluate my posts.  You must believe that I have something against non-christians....which i DONT.  My brother is non-christian & i respect him & love him to death.  In my post i simply argued about the few non-christians that choose to take away the few rights christians have left religion-wise.  If you allow me to pray to God as I please then I have nothing against you.  Once again, your beliefs are YOURS which you may freely voice...as long as I am aloud to voice mine as well.  Sorry for the misunderstanding, I am not hear to hurt anyone's feelings

i bolded a word.
how do christians exactly only have a few religious rights left in this country? its a christian country! all of the presidents have been christian. schools let out for the christmas holiday. stores put out christmas trees. carolers go in front of everyones houses.

need i say more?


im gonna go out door by door and sing dreidel. we'll see what happens.

[sadolakced acid]

disco infiltrator...you clearly misevaluate my posts.  You must believe that I have something against non-christians....which i DONT.  My brother is non-christian & i respect him & love him to death.  In my post i simply argued about the few non-christians that choose to take away the few rights christians have left religion-wise.  If you allow me to pray to God as I please then I have nothing against you.  Once again, your beliefs are YOURS which you may freely voice...as long as I am aloud to voice mine as well.  Sorry for the misunderstanding, I am not hear to hurt anyone's feelings

might i point out that christmas was a pagan ritual stolen by the early christian church in order to allow pagans to convert to christianity while keeping thier festivals? (or prevent them from celebrating pagan festivals, whichever camp you follow)

[Spirited Away]

Everyone is sort of argueing the point that non-christians dont care....well in that case they should NOT have changed the name from Christmas tree to "holiday" tree.   But in reality.....there are still a few non-christians who DO care & start rucuss about things like that.  It's people who react to these things that cry until things are done their way.  If only people stopped listening to them things would be done a lot better.  Such as no God in school...most people who dont believe in God wouldn't give a care if I stood up & prayed during class...they just wouldn't participate.  But its the few that do argue about it that get to make the decision....SO unfair!

The originator of this thread did not specify WHO it was that alter the name Christmas tree to "holiday" tree. Can you? Actually, it seems you think non-Christians are the ones responsible for the new name. Am I reading that correctly? You don't think Christians aren't capable of wanting to target new markets to gain money?

You make it sound like the non-Christians who do care are whiners. What about Christians who have a problem with the new "holiday tree" name? I can assure you that Christians are crying and are starting a "rucuss" until things are done their way, too. If people would stop listening to these Christians, things would be better as well. Now that's fairness.

disco infiltrator...you clearly misevaluate my posts. You must believe that I have something against non-christians....which i DONT. My brother is non-christian & i respect him & love him to death. In my post i simply argued about the few non-christians that choose to take away the few rights christians have left religion-wise. If you allow me to pray to God as I please then I have nothing against you. Once again, your beliefs are YOURS which you may freely voice...as long as I am aloud to voice mine as well. Sorry for the misunderstanding, I am not hear to hurt anyone's feelings

I had to laugh at that. Is that what you truly think? That Christians have "few" rights? If so, then non-Christians have no rights at all base on your scale of what is "few". For example, "schools observe Christian holidays but not Muslim, Jewish, Hindu... etc holidays. Test won't be given on Christian holidays (mostly because we're conveniently out of school), yet it is not taken into consideration that exams are given during the holidays of other religions. So, Christians get a perk at the "expense" of other religions. I don't think that's fair either, but it seems that's the way this society works, right? Winners and losers. You can't win all the time." [by me in a similar thread]

No one is forbidding you to pray to God, nor is anyone forbidding any Christian to use the term "Christmas tree", but it seems Christians are wanting to forbid the term "holiday tree" simply because it's un-Christian. Talk about few rights.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10355980/
Cracks me up that this is a religious free country, but many petty jealousies conveniently put a cap on that which the US Constitution so clearly states. There are fanatics, like a Mr. Wildmon, who would be miffed that the President helped Muslims celebrate Ramadan and wish his friends and family a "Happy Holiday Season". It seems this man is unreasonably jealous that Muslims have a place in the White House. And while Rev Jerry Falwell may believe that this is a nation "under God", not every citizen—with the same rights to liberty as he, believes so. It is discriminating, demeaningly so when he tries to pass it off as a fact. However, the one truth that we must all be subjected to, as it is HISTORY and the LAW, is the United States of America was founded on the basis of religious freedom, not the freedom to worship God alone.

This post has been edited by Spirited Away: Dec 7 2005, 01:14 PM

[HuGzNKissEs]

I had to laugh at that. Is that what you truly think? That Christians have "few" rights? If so, then non-Christians have no rights at all base on your scale of what is "few". For example, "schools observe Christian holidays but not Muslim, Jewish, Hindu... etc holidays. Test won't be given on Christian holidays (mostly because we're conveniently out of school), yet it is not taken into consideration that exams are given during the holidays of other religions. So, Christians get a perk at the "expense" of other religions. I don't think that's fair either, but it seems that's the way this society works, right? Winners and losers. You can't win all the time." [by me in a similar thread]

Oh is that right? schools observe Christian holidays?? Actually my school refers to them as "winter" holidays. & we are out of school throughout the days of Haunnakah(sp?) as well. We have school on Ash Wednesday even though it's a holy day of obligation. Our vacation which falls during the Christian holiday of Easter is called "spring break" And we have school on Holy Thursday, which is also a church day for my family.

[Spirited Away]

Oh is that right? schools observe Christian holidays??  Actually my school refers to them as "winter" holidays.  & we are out of school throughout the days of Haunnakah(sp?) as well.  We have school on Ash Wednesday even though it's a holy day of obligation.  Our vacation which falls during the Christian holiday of Easter is called "spring break" And we have school on Holy Thursday, which is also a church day for my family.

How much of my post did you really read? Are you telling me that you're given TESTS/EXAMS on Christian holidays? For your information, and you can easily research this, examinations were given on the celebration of Eid al-Fitr, one of the two most important Islamic holiday that is observed at the end of Ramadan, at the University of Houston-Main campus. My best friend, and others, had no choice but to skip this celebration to take an exam that had no make up date. Are you telling me that this happens to Christians? Has a Christian ever had to make a decision to take a test on Christmas or not?

They are appropriately called the Winter Holidays because that is a historical fact. As a Christian you should know the history of Christmas like the back of your hand, so do not be surpprised that schools are adopting a more historically correct , albeit more secular terminology.

And last, but not least, why can't a spring break be called spring break? The University of Houston's spring vacations falls in March. Easter is still Easter to those who wish to celebrate it. About your school district, at least you are able to get out for a week before your religion's holiday. Can you tell me which schools allow this for, oh, lets say Jews, Muslims or Hindus?

[sadolakced acid]

i believe christmas day is a national holiday, as well.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Oh is that right? schools observe Christian holidays??  Actually my school refers to them as "winter" holidays.  & we are out of school throughout the days of Haunnakah(sp?) as well.  We have school on Ash Wednesday even though it's a holy day of obligation.  Our vacation which falls during the Christian holiday of Easter is called "spring break" And we have school on Holy Thursday, which is also a church day for my family.

Yea, um, we don't. We go back on the last day of Hannukah. This is the first year I have ever gotten off for that many days of Hannukah, not counting weekends. Do the students in your school get off for Ramadan?

Oh, and go to your school and tell them you didn't come to school because it was Ash Wednesday. You will be completely excused, and have a day to make up your assignements, no questions asked.

I, however, have tried getting off for Rosh Hashana (which I had an exam on, by the way) at my school, but they said no. I would have been counted as absent and I wouldn't be able to make up my exam, because it was a final. Hence, I was forced to skip attending services at the local temple with my mother and sister. (She's in middle school; she doesn't have finals, so she just skipped.)

How in the world is this fair? I don't know WHERE you get the idea that Christians are at all limited in their influence and rights in this country, but you should try being in a non-Christian's shoes for once. Your perception would differ so greatly it would knock you out of said shoes.

[sadolakced acid]

christians are severly limited in thier rights if they consider being able to kill those who don't believe in christ, like in the middle ages, a right.