war in iraq Options

[brian_deegan]

do you support it or no?

[Spirited Away]

I don't see why you're replying to what I said if you aren't enjoying this argument.

I'm replying because I was offended that you would assume I'm enjoying it. There's a difference: you take all this as entertainment while I take it as a serious matter because it involves people's lives.

You seem to suggest that all the people opposing the war are ignorant. Well some of them may be, but some of them do understand your point of view.

*scratches head*, how on earth did you come across that? YOU, sir, need to stop putting words in my mouth. If I want to call people ignorant, then I will say so. But what I have said is that none of the people who have spoken against the war has given any good reasons for us to consider. You do need to re-read that please.


Um, haven't I said as much in my example, that I do not want to be the killer, rather I would depend on the justice system to do this. I think you're sort of confused.

You may not understand, but these people believe that justice will be served by God (or some other supernatural being).

Right, but they have their beliefs and we have ours. They can't kill people and then blame that God have decreed that they must kill. Therefore, it's not an excuse, or at least, not a legitimate one.

This "pacifist" way of thinking may be hard to grasp, but if there is a "right" or a "wrong", then this way of thinking is probably "right". Peace will only be achieved if everyone in the world thought in this way. That's another way of saying peace will never be achieved.

Maybe it's hard to perceive because it's not realistic, but rather, quite idealistic. In war, there isn't a right or wrong, you see, just two sides with different beliefs. I AM NOT saying that peace will never be achieved, but I AM SAYING THAT peace isn't always then answer... (I think this will the 5th time I've said this in this topic)

[Spirited Away]

Ah, I'm double posting again, please forgive me...

If it terrorized you, and were brought intot he state of TERROR, then yes, the cat would be a terrorist.
Like I said in that post, we only take the word "terrorist" to be a cold blooded murderer [[or any evil term like killer, blah.]]

*sweat drops*, it isn't the same thing, miss. They have the same meaning, but when used in different context, it will mean different things. You explain well about the cat, but what about the CAR. It's an inanimate object, but it still terrorize me, so it it a terrorist?

Well, I really doubt that Saddam flew the planes into the World Trade Center. Osama bin Laden did. Why were we fighting Saddam? Eh, yea, Saddam might have had relations with bin Laden. But he wasn't the mastermind.

This really makes me wonder if you follow up with the news. But anyway I'll help you out a bit with current events (or past events, whatever), there were evidence, albiet very little, that Saddam supports the same group of terrorists that flew the planes by monetary means. It wasn't assumed that there were 'weapons of destructions', Saddam boasted that himself... The dude was asking for a war.

So if he isn't the mastermind, he shouldn't have gotten punished? What kind of justice is that? Okay, I'll pay someone to murder a girl, but only the murderer himself would get sentenced while I walk free? Um, are you sure you'd want that to happen?

[juliar]

Okay, sorry Julia, but have you watched the news lately? Correct me if I'm wrong, but either yourself or someone said that we Americans are slaughtering innocent Iraqi civilians...as I direct you toward the current news, does your opinion change? We're being brutally murdered as well...

I never said we weren't brutally murdered. I am just defending the point of whoever brought up the definition of terrorist.

[DesignMatters™]

I dont support the war. We got what we wanted. Dont you think the USA has killed enough Iraqians.

[Spirited Away]

We got what we wanted. Dont you think the USA has killed enough Iraqians.

Hi,
We got what we wanted only after the war began , and I think that USA haven't kill more Iraqis than Saddam did. Have you heard of Saddam's chemical terror? Hundreds of THOUSANDS of Iraqis and Iranians died during that time. Off topic, I know, but that was to prove that Saddam was more of a threat to his own people than the USA.

[onenonly101]

About Saddam... he was a threat, but i don't think he was that big of a threat. Thsi is what Darly Kimbal said the director of Arms Control Association said and i basically agree.

Currently, there is no imminent threat that justifies a full-scale invasion of Iraq and the many risks and casualties such a course entails. The return of the inspectors and the presence of U.S. troops are, for now, effectively containing the potential threat posed by Iraq. The ability of the United States to maintain the diplomatic and military pressure needed to sustain this process over the next several months exceeds its ability to absorb the political, monetary, and human costs of a precipitous military invasion

[onenonly101]

i think i iraq had nothing to do with 9/11

Iraq didn't happen because of 9/11.As Secretary of the Treasury O'Neill has said in the recently published book, from the very first days of the Bush administration, they were talking about going to war with Iraq. Even Bush said We've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved with the September 11th.

sorry double post

[Spirited Away]

About Saddam... he was a threat, but i don't think he was that big of a threat. Thsi is what Darly Kimbal said the director of Arms Control Association said and i basically agree.

and I sorta agree with [this]

[*CEP*]

- Moved to Debate -

- Chinkieeyedpnoi

[tkproduce]

Um, haven't I said as much in my example, that I do not want to be the killer, rather I would depend on the justice system to do this. I think you're sort of confused.

So basically, you're too much of a coward to achieve justice yourself, so you depend on the justice system. Therefore the ones "supporting" the war are actually all selfish cowards who want this war in Iraq so that they'll be safe and free without having to get blamed for any killing that occurs in the process of achieving this freedom. (my God, this is going to create some controversy)

Anyway, I need some more info - if war is supposed tobe the last resort, what other methods have the United States deployed in order to try and achieve understanding between themselves and middle-easten asian countries? Would a repeat of the Marshall Plan (if you don't know what this is, please find out yourself) or something similar would not have worked at all? or have they tried?

about people arguing about the meaning of "The War on Terrorism", terrorism is an abstract noun, similar to hatred or happiness. It's just a human emotion. So I think it doesn't really have any meaning at all, but the US government uses the words in order to raise public morale and get the nation behind them. Afterall, it gives them an excuse to attack Iraq.

[Spirited Away]

So basically, you're too much of a coward to achieve justice yourself, so you depend on the justice system.

Ah, then you're confused between the definitions of cowardice and murder. To murder you see, is to kill unlawfully, brutally or inhumanly and to seek justice for murder would still satisfied my anger. That's why I said you've no right to assume thing about other people (for example how they would act), because you certainly do not understand the human mind works in different ways . Who knows, I could be the lawyer that sentence the killer to his death. Cowardice would be like not being able to look at the killer's face or not bringing him to justice for fear that he would kill me, too. Get it? It's quite simple.

Therefore the ones "supporting" the war are actually all selfish cowards who want this war in Iraq so that they'll be safe and free without having to get blamed for any killing that occurs in the process of achieving this freedom. (my God, this is going to create some controversy)

I supposed we are selfish for wanting safety for ourselves, our friends, our children, our neighbors, and American citizens as a whole. Then again, if you define that as selfishness, then people all over the world would be selfish for wanting security and safety since I'm almost sure that most of the people in the world wants that. Either that, or I don't think you understand selfishness very well.

Anyway, I need some more info

Then go research for it. It's not that hard.

if war is supposed tobe the last resort,

Since when is it a last resort? Did I say that? Though, I'm not saying that it s or isn't, but like I said... for the umpteenth time, there are supposed to be exceptions to every problem. You're not reading me correctly... I've said it so many times now that it should be a mantra in your mind.

what other methods have the United States deployed in order to try and achieve understanding between themselves and middle-easten asian countries?

We do have an understanding with a couple of middle eastern countries. Take Israel for example. We're willing to give them a helping hand, and they in turn, are on friendly terms with us. But why would we want to be friendly with someone who's out there for American blood? That's like going hand to hand comabat against someone with an automatic rifle. We're not dumb.

Would a repeat of the Marshall Plan (if you don't know what this is, please find out yourself) or something similar would not have worked at all? or have they tried?

Um, Hehe, you assume too much, dude, it could be your down fall one day. Anyway, you should be the one who's doing research, because you're the one asking questions. Anyway, the Marshall Plan is just one of very many examples of US generosity. I don't understand your wording there... the Plan did work.

about people arguing about the meaning of "The War on Terrorism", terrorism is an abstract noun, similar to hatred or happiness. It's just a human emotion. So I them an excuse to attack Iraq.

You're silly. We used that word, and it fits perfectly, because, as you say, if it describes emotion, then it signifies how much fear, and hatred we have for the terrorists.

think it doesn't really have any meaning at all, but the US government uses the words in order to raise public morale and get the nation behind them. Afterall, it gives

Propaganda is great, isn't it? But if they never thought of the word 'terrorist', calling them anything else would still have the same effect. Why? For example, if terrorists=hungry hungry hippos, and these hungry-hungry-hippos, happen to fly planes with innocent civilians and crash into WTC with the intention of killing, then they're still killers with malicious intent. Capeche?

[tkproduce]

We do have an understanding with a couple of middle eastern countries. Take Israel for example. We're willing to give them a helping hand, and they in turn, are on friendly terms with us. But why would we want to be friendly with someone who's out there for American blood? That's like going hand to hand comabat against someone with an automatic rifle. We're not dumb.

Israel is a country that should not exist. It exists now because the Americans took land away from the Palestinians and gave it to the Jews because they felt sympathy for them after the Holocaust.

The United States was a country made of outcasts from many different countries that escaped their homeland to find freedom. These outcasts led a rebellion against the British who controlled them and won independence. Similarly, the communists in Russia led a rebellion against the monarchy and set up the Soviet Union. To me both sound like the same result - it didn't matter who was right or wrong, the ones who won the war prevailed and got to do things their way. So basically, this war is to show the world that the Americans will have it their way and not anyone else's.

...and again, please don't tell me what I do and don't understand. I'm trying the best I could to debate from an anti-war point of view and if I was debating from a pro-war point of view, I would have said exactly what you've been saying. The point of a debate is to understand both sides of the argument. I'd like to see you try debating from an anti-war perspective - it's quite difficult. Wanna switch roles? I'll happily argue pro-war because that's what I am really.

[Spirited Away]

Actually, it's not because we felt sorry for them . It was more like we needed at least one ally in the Middle East. And who's to say that it shouldn't exist?

The United States was a country made of outcasts from many different countries that escaped their homeland to find freedom. These outcasts led a rebellion against the British who controlled them and won independence

Trust me, I'm aware of US history, no need to recap historical events.

Similarly, the communists in Russia led a rebellion against the monarchy and set up the Soviet Union. To me both sound like the same result - it didn't matter who was right or wrong, the ones who won the war prevailed and got to do things their way. So basically, this war is to show the world that the Americans will have it their way and not anyone else's.

I never said that there is 'right and wrong' in wars. I said that there isn't a right and wrong, because it's two sides fighting for different beliefs of 'right. If any country's capable to get what they want, I'm sure they'd do it. America is only in the spot light because there is envy that other countries cannot accomplish the same feat if they should try it. I could be wrong on this, and everyone's welcome to argue it out.

...and again, please don't tell me what I do and don't understand.

I would, but since you keep on assuming things about me, personal things, I might add, it's only fair that I assume that you don't understand certain things. RIght? So you quit and I'll quit. Man, I sound like a baby.

I'm trying the best I could to debate from an anti-war point of view and if I was debating from a pro-war point of view, I would have said exactly what you've been saying.

Well, you're doing a very good job arguing, except for the assumptions.

he point of a debate is to understand both sides of the argument. I'd like to see you try debating from an anti-war perspective - it's quite difficult. Wanna switch roles? I'll happily argue pro-war because that's what I am really.

The thing is, I can't try even if I want to. That's how strongly I feel about supporting the government's decision to war. So, I'd do a terrible job of it, and half the things I say won't even make sense.

[tkproduce]

Well, you're doing a very good job arguing, except for the assumptions.

haha. thanks. I have been enlightened by your thoughts as well - you've mentioned a lot of things I didn't know about. Especially about President Diem - you're the first source I've ever heard anything good about him from.

[xscore]

click here

OMG i feel SOOO BAD FOR THOSE POOR MOLESTED INNOCENT IRAQI PRISONERS..... omg look at that stupid b*tch.....grr i just want to slap that UGLY old DOG...

[Spirited Away]

click here

OMG i feel SOOO BAD FOR THOSE POOR MOLESTED INNOCENT IRAQI PRISONERS..... omg look at that stupid b*tch.....grr i just want to slap that UGLY old DOG...

If you actually have read the article , then you'd know that even though she did the act, there seems to be something else behind it. As in she could have been a pawn or there is someone else ordering her to do it.

And I quote "No one has the full story of what was going on in those pictures".

No, I'm not trying to justify what she and the other soldiers did, but I will not condemn them until the truth is revealed.

Aw, you feel sorry for the 'poor molested innocent iraqi prisoners', but I don't think they'd feel sorry for you if you were their prisoner.

[xscore]

If you actually have read the article  , then you'd know that even though she did the act, there seems to be something else behind it. As in she could have been a pawn or there is someone else ordering her to do it.

And I quote "No one has the full story of what was going on in those pictures".

No, I'm not trying to justify what she and the other soldiers did, but I will not condemn them until the truth is revealed.

Aw, you feel sorry for the 'poor molested innocent iraqi prisoners', but I don't think they'd feel sorry for you if you were their prisoner.

ok so ur basically giving her a freakin EXCUSE for doing that!??!? what u said is FREAKIN MESSED UP....and so what if she was "ordered" to do it!?!?! shes stupid enough to go and take those RETARDED orders....

and what if it was the iraqis that did that to the americans? then what wud u say? u certainly woudl have something COMPLETELY different to say RIGHT?

so shut up if ur gonna say something stupid like that...ur PATHETIC....just like the wrinkly dog smiling in that picture...people like u that have a lame excuse for something that is TOTALLY wrong disgust me...i think im gonna puke....

[Spirited Away]

Your response was really mature . So much that it proves you're not even trying to understand the situation.

Anyway, if I may enlighten you. You're the one who provided the article, kiddo, and you're the one who didn't read it through. I was only quoting from the article that you gave. Don't try so hard to be smart.

ok so ur basically giving her a freakin EXCUSE for doing that!??!? what u said is FREAKIN MESSED UP....

You need to go back to grade school to learn your ABCs, and then talk to me. I did say that I wasn't trying to justify her actions at all, if you've read correctly you would have got that much. What I said was that you shouldn't be so riled up about a couple of pictures as there could a hidden motive/story behind them.

so shut up if ur gonna say something stupid like that...ur PATHETIC....just like the wrinkly dog smiling in that picture...

Anyone who reads your response will think otherwise because of your bad mouth. I may be stupid, but at least I can read.

[xscore]

Your response was really mature  . So much that it proves you're not even trying to understand the situation.

Anyway, if I may enlighten you. You're the one who provided the article, kiddo, and you're the one who didn't read it through. I was only quoting from the article that you gave. Don't try so hard to be smart.




You need to go back to grade school to learn you ABCs, and then talk to me. I did say that I wan't trying to justify her actions at all. What I said was that you shouldn't be so riled up about a couple of pictures as there could a hidden motive/story behind them.




Anyone who reads your response will think otherwise because of your bad mouth. I may be stupid, but at least I can read. 

dont tell me what i did and didnt do...u dont kno me....maybe u just didnt UNDERSTAND...i never said that u were trying to justify her actions...my point is that whether or not it was her choice, it was WRONG....

Don't try so hard to be smart

im not trying to be smart ok? i am smart..so shut up and dont assume things about me..u may think im stupid or w/e but at least everything i say arent EXCUSES...u freakin queer...

one more thing...ur right, i AM "riled up" about a couple of pictures...cuz what that hoe did was wrong and stupid..whether theres something "hidden" behind them or not...that whore still did it, even tho it knew it was wrong..

and ur so freakin inconsiderate...u may be smarter than me, but ur ignorant and inconsiderate to even side with that dumb excuse...

and she looks mighty happy for someone who claims they were just "following orders"

DONT REPLY BACK TO ME U IGNORANT PIECE OF CRAP..I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN ARGUE WITH RANDOM PEOPLE IN RANDOM FORUMS.....
peace, have a nice day..^^v

[tkproduce]

uninspiredfae, I think you've found a tougher nut to crack than me. I'll support you all the way, but I won't get involved. I need to sort out the ignorant people under other topics

[Spirited Away]

im not trying to be smart ok? i am smart..so shut up and dont assume things about me..u may think im stupid or w/e but at least everything i say arent EXCUSES...u freakin queer...

If you're smart then maybe you should've tried to read your own article and understand it before posting it. Eh? Ever heard of reading?

one more thing...ur right, i AM "riled up" about a couple of pictures...cuz what that hoe did was wrong and stupid..whether theres something "hidden" behind them or not...that whore still did it, even tho it knew it was wrong..

YOU REALLY need to read your article! Hehe, I was only saying what it said... you're silly.

and ur so freakin inconsiderate...u may be smarter than me, but ur ignorant and inconsiderate to even side with that dumb excuse...

That's right, i'm so ignorant that I consider two sides of the story before making up my mind. How is it an excuse? You don't make much sense talking negatively.

and she looks mighty happy for someone who claims they were just "following orders"

Go read your darn article, lilttle girl.

DONT REPLY BACK TO ME U IGNORANT PIECE OF CRAP..I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO THAN ARGUE WITH RANDOM PEOPLE IN RANDOM FORUMS.....
peace, have a nice day..^^v

I can reply if I want to. It's a right, thank goodness. You have better things alright, YOU NEED TO GO PRACTICE YOUR READING SKILLS.

Anyway, as I've said, wait til the truth is revealed until condemning people. Ever heard of INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY? Ah, but I'm too ignorant, I wouldn't know what that is either.

[PinoyOtaku]

ok so ur basically giving her a freakin EXCUSE for doing that!??!? what u said is FREAKIN MESSED UP....and so what if she was "ordered" to do it!?!?! shes stupid enough to go and take those RETARDED orders....

and what if it was the iraqis that did that to the americans? then what wud u say? u certainly woudl have something COMPLETELY different to say RIGHT?

so shut up if ur gonna say something stupid like that...ur PATHETIC....just like the wrinkly dog smiling in that picture...people like u that have a lame excuse for something that is TOTALLY wrong disgust me...i think im gonna puke....

I believe he is not giving her an excuse, he is most likely pinpointing out of other alternatives of how this situation was. I'm sorry but you calling him names such as a "freakin queer" isn't going to back up your beliefs one bit, let alone your reliability and maturity...

[Spirited Away]

I believe he is not giving her an excuse, he is most likely pinpointing out of other alternatives of how this situation was. I'm sorry but you calling him names such as a "freakin queer" isn't going to back up your beliefs one bit, let alone your reliability and maturity...

I'm a girl, but thank you for that post, because that was what I was aiming to say in so many words.

[PinoyOtaku]

I'm a girl, but thank you for that post, because that was what I was aiming to say in so many words.

Sorry should've figured with the avatar...

[Spirited Away]

Sorry should've figured with the avatar...

no problem. people often thought like you because of my screen name...

but no problem at all