Christian Propaganda Options

[*Libertie*]

I used the search, so I hope this isn't a repeat thread.

Today was my church's July 4th celebration service. The pastor took this opportunity to put George W. Bush on a pedestal, slam gay marriage, condemn abortion, and basically tell us all how to vote.

He also had the audacity to tell us that everything we've ever learned in the history books is absolutely wrong, and proceeded to explain how the U.S. *really* became a nation.

He threw outrageous percentages without citing his sources (ie., he told us that 90% of Americans believe in Christianity!), he went on and on with random facts that he couldn't prove. And the congregation flocks to him, because he's the PASTOR and that means they should do anything he says.

How many pastors, conservative and liberal alike, sway a majority of their congregations into voting the way they want - no, "the way GOD wants!" - every year? And there's nothing we can do about it, because it's the pastor, and he can say whatever he wants to say as long as the congregation doesn't have a problem with it.

My question - why are people so easily swayed? Why do people believe such nonsense without being given a reason to believe it? And why do pastors take advantage of their time behind a pulpit as an opportunity to spout propaganda to thousands and thousands every year?

.:edit:. Yes, yes, another religion thread. I apologize, but I'm not making any outrageous claims, I just wanted some input before I write a letter to my pastor. :P

[strice]

i guess because their religion tells them that pastors are honest people? anyways, these pastors probably think the rubbish they are spewing is a favour to society. glad i was brought up atheist.

[ichigofan]

because since the beginning of time man has been afraid of the consequences of betraying "god" but they dont understand that if "god" loves you sooo much as the pastor says every friggin sunday then he/she/it would love you even if your pro-abortion and gay marriages.

[*Libertie*]

That's what I thought. I don't understand why many pastors act as if a person is going to hell just for having a different political stance.

[sadolakced acid]

the two ways to take control of a country are through it's military and through it's army.

it can never stop

[starlette]

wow. your pastor sounds like hes full of shit. I'm Christian, and I dont agree with all of those things...so maybe ists just your pastor. Not all Christian are preachy like that. But I do think its wrong that he spoke in that manner. Maybe hes really deep down a conspiracy theorist.

[*Libertie*]

I've been to a few churches where the pastor is very reserved and doesn't force-feed propaganda to his congregation. I wish all churches were like that. But I don't want to switch churches because of this; I very much enjoy playing in the church orchestra and don't want to give that up.. plus it gives me a gateway to meet young flutists who take lessons from me (I know, that may sound greedy.. -.-'). I just wish he would learn to contain himself and stop trying to make people change if there's nothing wrong with them. I'm honestly thinking about writing him a letter expressing my concerns.

[*kryogenix*]

If I recall correctly, the 1990 census said that about 85% of Americans were christian, so your pastor wasn't far off percentage-wise (didn't bother to look it up so I might be dead wrong, I just remember weird facts like that though).

because since the beginning of time man has been afraid of the consequences of betraying "god" but they dont understand that if "god" loves you sooo much as the pastor says every friggin sunday then he/she/it would love you even if your pro-abortion and gay marriages.

God loves everyone, even sinners. That doesn't mean there aren't any consequences, but God will still love you.

[bebopspike14]

You have to understand, after the reformation, the pastors became extremely fiery and became empassioned with a great religous fervor. Catholic sermons remained solemn and traditional, but the protestants had the congregation on the edge of their seats, spouting what would be catholic heresy.

[technicolour]

Today was my church's July 4th celebration service. The pastor took this opportunity to put George W. Bush on a pedestal, slam gay marriage, condemn abortion, and basically tell us all how to vote.

George Bush stands for the Christian ways.

Gay Marriage = The Bible says that's a no-no.
Abortion = Murder. That's a no-no as well.

And there's nothing we can do about it, because it's the pastor, and he can say whatever he wants to say as long as the congregation doesn't have a problem with it.

You could tell him to stfu. But then he'll throw more of this at you which is probably something you dont want.

He threw outrageous percentages without citing his sources (ie., he told us that 90% of Americans believe in Christianity!), he went on and on with random facts that he couldn't prove. And the congregation flocks to him, because he's the PASTOR and that means they should do anything he says.

That percent is a little off. People probably "flock" to him cause they think he's, oh, i don't know, RIGHT!.

You have to understand, after the reformation, the pastors became extremely fiery and became empassioned with a great religous fervor. Catholic sermons remained solemn and traditional, but the protestants had the congregation on the edge of their seats, spouting what would be catholic heresy.

We are protestant. ^ that's right. [the quote]

God loves everyone, even sinners. That doesn't mean there aren't any consequences, but God will still love you.

Amen.

[Mulder]

even though im jewish/agnostic, it is true that about 90% of Americans being christian. and, even though i dont agree with any of this, christian doctrine does say that gay marriage is wrong, and abortion is murder under any circumstances. so....even though i really dont agree with what your pastors doing.....hes just spouting christian beliefs. thank god im not christian then. (i have absolutely nothing agaisnt christians)

[*suddenly she*]

your pastor sounds a little , if you don't mind me saying it.

the thing is, maybe the census said 85%, but that's only the percentage of how many people claim to be.

[crazymonkey1785]

well, i'm a christian and at my church, they don't do that, sometimes, you just have to do some research for yourself and it doesn't matter what your pastor thinks, you have to have your OWN opinion, the people in the church should have their own opinion, i believe that gay marriages are wrong, and i believe abortions are wrong, but YOU have to make up your own opinions, you have to look at the bible to see what's right and what's wrong, don't base it on whether your pastor thinks it's wrong or not!! you have to look at the BIBLE to see what's right or wrong!

[Paradox of Life]

^ Abortion and gay marriages are not right or wrong and the bible cannot say what is right or wrong.

And like ichigofan said, if God loved you so much, he'd let you have your own opinions. Peoples' minds vary and we shouldn't be forced to think abortion is WRONG and gay marriages are WRONG.

I'm not Christian, but I think that maybe it's just your pastor who may be a little whack. One can choose to take advantage of their job and abuse it the way your pastor did or they can use it for what it was made for. Not for false political speeches, but for informing people of the wisdom in Christianity and the Bible!

Why are people so easily swayed? I think it's a psychological reason where people want to fit in. That's why peer pressure is such an issue and people will adjust their mindsets to fit with others so they can feel like they're not alone. I'm not saying this is how it always is, but I think it's part of the reason. They see other people listening to everything the pastor says, so they think "Oh well, if the pastor and everyone else thinks abortion and gay marriages are wrong, I'm going to think so too."

Was this in general or am I misinterpreting the question?

[technicolour]

Abortion and gay marriages are not right or wrong and the bible cannot say what is right or wrong.

How can the Bible not say what is right or wrong? Religions have a Bible or Torah or Koran and etc etc. Their Book is the "rules for the religion". The Bible says that those things are WRONG.

Why are people so easily swayed? I think it's a psychological reason where people want to fit in. That's why peer pressure is such an issue and people will adjust their mindsets to fit with others so they can feel like they're not alone. I'm not saying this is how it always is, but I think it's part of the reason. They see other people listening to everything the pastor says, so they think "Oh well, if the pastor and everyone else thinks abortion and gay marriages are wrong, I'm going to think so too."

People are easily swayed if they believe it's true. THEIR BELIEFS. People do want to fit in, but in Church it's your beliefs that matter. In fact, being alone has nothing really to do with being swayed at all. If they believe it's true then they'll go for it. Cults are what you're thinking about. [the waco thing..etc etc.] The Pastor is actually TEACHING the Bible. You just have to listen and know what he's saying.

The Bible, which is written by God's People from God, says that what the pastor was talking about is wrong and that it's great that Bush is putting a stop to it. (Gay Marriage, Abortion, etc etc.)

And like ichigofan said, if God loved you so much, he'd let you have your own opinions. Peoples' minds vary and we shouldn't be forced to think abortion is WRONG and gay marriages are WRONG.

God loves us so much that he gives us a choice. To Follow his Religion and all that implies or to do what the world wants us to do. The Bible says that MURDER is wrong.

MURDER = ABORTION // ABORTION = MURDER
Gay Marriage = Homosexuality =

Lev 18:22- Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

Straight from the Bible.

[sadolakced acid]

don't cite the bible.

the bible is not a good source. anything taken from the bible is to be assumed as incorrect and added there by humans.

[bebopspike14]

don't cite the bible.

the bible is not a good source. anything taken from the bible is to be assumed as incorrect and added there by humans.

Technically true, that the bible was written by humans, but incorrect? The bible was written by humans who, throught the holy spirit, were given the words to write directly from god.

The holy spirit guides us in our faith, and also serves as one's conscience. Yet those who have sinned many times and are without faith more easily mute the holy spirit's voice within our heads. God sent the holy spirit to guide us in our faith.

[technicolour]

don't cite the bible.

the bible is not a good source. anything taken from the bible is to be assumed as incorrect and added there by humans.

If You can't cite the bible then what exactly is the point of this "debate" then? It wouldn't be a debate.

[Mulder]

^agreed. this debate isnt about the truths or nontruths of the bible. its about what the bible, specifically the christian bible (u must remember that there are many different parts) saying that gay marriage and abortion are wrong. how exactly could someone prove/disprove that without using quotes from the bible, as thats the only source, besides notes from religious leaders, that we could use?

[likeachild]

yup
I don't think any other book in the world has as much moral teaching as the Bible

[technicolour]

If I can't site the Bible..then really there is no purpose for this topic at all. You make no sense. This should pretty much be closed then.

[sadolakced acid]

If You can't cite the bible then what exactly is the point of this "debate" then? It wouldn't be a debate.

you cited a bible quote saying that gay fornication was a sin. how do you know if that wsa in the original bible? who's to say it wasn't added in by geutenburg or king james?


and the point of this debate, if i'm not mistaken, it why religious figures often use thier status for reasons other than religion.

take the crusades, sponsered by the pope. purpose: gain good farmland in and around asia minor.

likewise, religon can be used to stir people to revolt. attaching a religious reason to a war, like william the bastard did before 1066, allows you what seems like a moral advantage, allowing him to become william the conquerer.

we must take into account, however, that this is organised religion. organized religion is inheriently sinful, because it relies upon sinful humans for direction. if a catholic bishop is capable of being gay, then a congregation's pastor is certainly able to be corrupt, and use his power for the wrong reasons.

when looking at oranized religion, we must realize it is a system like the feudal system (at least the catholic system). most people now believe that such a system is flawed and not reliable, yet they still rely upon it in thier organized religion.

in organised religion, people put thier trust and faith in thier pastor or leader. they trust them to make decisions for them, to tell them what do to. (confessions, etc.) this will work if the leader is incorruptable, like god supposedly is, but when it is a human, then you must assume that there is a possibility that they are corrupt.

a corrupted leader with followers will fall to the temptation to use these followers. Some of the followers will blindly follow him- and therefore it works. if a pastor told his congregation to go kill someone, there would probably be a person or two of the congregation toat takes it seriously (if the message is imbedded with religous purpose). This has been used by islamic religous leaders, so it is no stretch that christian religious leaders could use this as well.

so: why do pastors use thier power for political purposes? because it has been done for millenia. christianity has often been used as the puppet of kings bent on conquering a nation, or popes wishing for more wealth.

[Spirited Away]

even though im jewish/agnostic, it is true that about 90% of Americans being christian.

Just a question to everyone: what does that number, whether it be 50% or 99%, has to do with anything? That something the majority believes in must always be right?

[technicolour]

Dude. You need to slam you're head up against a wall, and while you do so I pray that you get some common sense in you. What if..blah blah What if blah blah..

WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG AND I'M RIGHT?

and the point of this debate, if i'm not mistaken, it why religious figures often use thier status for reasons other than religion.

Serious religious people wouldn't. Billy Grahmn..His SON...

likewise, religon can be used to stir people to revolt. attaching a religious reason to a war, like william the bastard did before 1066, allows you what seems like a moral advantage, allowing him to become william the conquerer.

Religion cause also cause people to revolt. Isn't that part of the reason why we CAME TO AMERICA? Protestant religion?

corrupted leader with followers will fall to the temptation to use these followers. Some of the followers will blindly follow him- and therefore it works. if a pastor told his congregation to go kill someone, there would probably be a person or two of the congregation toat takes it seriously (if the message is imbedded with religous purpose). This has been used by islamic religous leaders, so it is no stretch that christian religious leaders could use this as well.

You're thinking of a cult here. But wait, you're going to say religion in general is one huge cult.

take the crusades, sponsered by the pope. purpose: gain good farmland in and around asia minor.

WRONG. IT WAS TO SAVE THE HOLY LAND. Not farmland. H-O-L-Y-_-L-A-N-D.


We are debating CHRISTIANITY. CHRISTIANTY MEANS THE BIBLE HAS TO COME INTO THIS. IT IS THE RULES TO THE CHRISTIANS. FRANKLY DUDE, your arguement isn't making sense. Christian's = bible.

--

Yea. Numbers really don't matter to this argument.

[sadolakced acid]

Religion cause also cause people to revolt. Isn't that part of the reason why we CAME TO AMERICA? Protestant religion?

right... so the whole thing with companies establishing colonies to grow tabacoo and sugar and rice (sugar, using christianity to justify slavery, mind you)- all that was simply a protestant movement?

You're thinking of a cult here. But wait, you're going to say religion in general is one huge cult.

a cult? i'm using history. a cult is where the leader has free sexual privleges with everyone. history- as in the crusades, spainish inquisition, islamic fundamentalism. racism.

WRONG. IT WAS TO SAVE THE HOLY LAND. Not farmland. H-O-L-Y-_-L-A-N-D.
We are debating CHRISTIANITY.  CHRISTIANTY MEANS THE BIBLE HAS TO COME INTO THIS. IT IS THE RULES TO THE CHRISTIANS. FRANKLY DUDE, your arguement isn't making sense. Christian's = bible.

you are mistaken. the crusades were masqueraded as an attempt to save the 'holy land', when the kings simply wanted farmland, the the pope obliged them.

and why must the bible be a source? we're not talking about christianity itself, right? we're talking about the system of organised religion and using it to influence the followers to do non-religious things...

and, might i ask, when did i say 'what if?' everything i said was based off of history. and real history, not biblical history.