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Creation or Evolution?, Which do you believe in?
sadolakced acid
post Dec 17 2005, 05:13 PM
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i'd rather burn forever in hell than be in heaven with a hippocritial god.
 
innovation
post Dec 17 2005, 05:18 PM
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Hippocritical. :D Je t'aime, Justin!

I should probably make some sort of relevant poitn since (a) I take a theology course and (b) I shouldn't spam. Hm...I thought that this chat was originally entitled "creation v. evolution" not "who's going to hell."

And in most monotheistic religions, God is never "vengeful".

You know, we might never reach the truth in this life, or we might reach the truth and not know it. To the religious, it does not matter because God is God and faith is trust in His will.
 
*mipadi*
post Dec 17 2005, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE(perplexism @ Dec 17 2005, 5:18 PM)
And in most monotheistic religions, God is never "vengeful".
*

In Judaism, He is a "jealous, vengeful god".
 
innovation
post Dec 17 2005, 07:03 PM
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^ That is translated from Hebrew, so it cannot perfectly portray the meaning, obviously.

Also, Judaism in no way encourages the belief in a vengeful god. Jews are awed by G-d; they do not "fear" G-d but rather feel a powerful obligation to fulfill his will as the "Chosen People". If you read the prayers of the Shabbat service, you will find that G-d is most definitely portrayed as an all-loving G-d.
 
*mipadi*
post Dec 17 2005, 07:36 PM
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QUOTE(perplexism @ Dec 17 2005, 7:03 PM)
^ That is translated from Hebrew, so it cannot perfectly portray the meaning, obviously.

Also, Judaism in no way encourages the belief in a vengeful god. Jews are awed by G-d; they do not "fear" G-d but rather feel a powerful obligation to fulfill his will as the "Chosen People". If you read the prayers of the Shabbat service, you will find that G-d is most definitely portrayed as an all-loving G-d.
*

A caring god is not incompatible with one who is jealous and vengeful.
 
MeLoNiSyUmMy
post Dec 17 2005, 07:50 PM
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i dont believe in god. so i believe in evolution. there is no evidence that shows there is even a higher power. it doesnt make sense to me that "god" just decided to make adam and eve, have like 394824 kids each with a different race. it also confuses me because there are so many gods..so personally, it just makes more sense to have humans evolve over millions of years.
 
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post Dec 17 2005, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE(MeLoNiSyUmMy @ Dec 17 2005, 7:50 PM)
i dont believe in god. so i believe in evolution. there is no evidence that shows there is even a higher power. it doesnt make sense to me that "god" just decided to make adam and eve, have like 394824 kids each with a different race. it also confuses me because there are so many gods..so personally, it just makes more sense to have humans evolve over millions of years.
*

well to be fair, there have been many theories of how the world came to be the way it is.

and they've all been discredited so far..well, except for evolution.

and even though darwinian evolution is more plausible than the idea that God created the universe, it may not be what really happened.


and as an ex-jew, god isnt portrayed as vengeful. not at all. hes all powerful. hes the "lord and creator of the universe ... who gave sight to the blind, who clothed the naked...etc."

it may not be that verbatim...y'know.. i havent exactly been in services in a while. but does that sound like a vengeful god to you?
 
*disco infiltrator*
post Dec 17 2005, 08:08 PM
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You don't have to say someone is vengeful to make them vengeful. God could still commit acts out of vengeance along with being caring and nurturing.
 
innovation
post Dec 17 2005, 08:42 PM
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QUOTE(mipadi @ Dec 17 2005, 8:36 PM)
A caring god is not incompatible with one who is jealous and vengeful.
*


I specifically posed this question to Rabbi Nyer, who visited my school. Look, I can't tell you what G-d is exactly like; I'm human. But I can tell you that Jews do not worship a god with this sort of human jealousy. Jews worship a god of justice, and they believe that they take responsibility for their actions, as in G-d will offer rewards, as well as retribution--out of justice and in order to fulfill His divine will, not jealous anger.
 
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post Dec 17 2005, 08:46 PM
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QUOTE(perplexism @ Dec 17 2005, 8:42 PM)
I specifically posed this question to Rabbi Nyer, who visited my school. Look, I can't tell you what G-d is exactly like; I'm human. But I can tell you that Jews do not worship a god with this sort of human jealousy. Jews worship a god of justice, and they believe that they take responsibility for their actions, as in G-d will offer rewards, as well as retribution--out of justice and in order to fulfill His divine will, not jealous anger.
*

I never said anything about "jealous anger". Clearly, He in vengeful in the sense that, as you said, he offers retribution for certain actions; and he does not allow the worship of other gods. Considering He describes himself as jealous and vengeful, I think it's a fair description.
 
*disco infiltrator*
post Dec 17 2005, 08:47 PM
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Ever heard of a religious leader spouting off things unnecessarily?

*Cough* Middle Age Catholicism?...

I'm not saying he's wrong, just saying - you can't always believe everyone about anything, no matter how credited they may be with the information.
 
innovation
post Dec 17 2005, 08:49 PM
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QUOTE(mipadi @ Dec 17 2005, 9:46 PM)
I never said anything about "jealous anger". Clearly, He in vengeful in the sense that, as you said, he offers retribution for certain actions; and he does not allow the worship of other gods. Considering He describes himself as jealous and vengeful, I think it's a fair description.
*


Well then, according to that definition, how is that not compatible with a caring god?

And Rabbi Nyer is a "she". I think I'd rather trust a religious expert than some of the people on this forum.
 
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post Dec 17 2005, 08:56 PM
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QUOTE(perplexism @ Dec 17 2005, 8:49 PM)
Well then, according to that definition, how is that not compatible with a caring god?

And Rabbi Nyer is a "she". I think I'd rather trust a religious expert than some of the people on this forum.
*

My apologies--by "he" I meant God. I neglected to capitalize the pronoun, as per custom.
 
innovation
post Dec 17 2005, 09:53 PM
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^ I was talking to Sammi when I referred to "she".
 
*disco infiltrator*
post Dec 18 2005, 03:11 AM
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Well then, MY apologies.

And I'm not telling you anything that is an opinion, so there would be no reason to...trust me. I'm only giving an example from history, something that happened. It's not like it can be changed, or skewed; it's fact.
 
*Weird addiction*
post Dec 18 2005, 09:18 AM
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QUOTE(mipadi @ Dec 17 2005, 7:47 PM)
And so what's your point--believe in God, just to be on the safe side?
*

That isn't my point. It was just a statement... mellow.gif

QUOTE
So you're saying God is vengeful and... mean?

< confused.


According to the bible, he "blasphemed" sp?.
QUOTE
to believe we were created by a greater being is an insult to the human race.  and the greater being.  i mean, who would be as stupid to create humans?
.
 
innovation
post Dec 18 2005, 11:42 AM
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QUOTE(disco infiltrator @ Dec 18 2005, 4:11 AM)
Well then, MY apologies.

And I'm not telling you anything that is an opinion, so there would be no reason to...trust me. I'm only giving an example from history, something that happened. It's not like it can be changed, or skewed; it's fact.
*


Er, well, you're implying that Rabbi Nyer is corrupt and is lying to the public about her faith for her own benefit, as Catholic priests once did? Look, I'm not saying that everything Rabbi Nyer said is universally correct; I'm saying that it's what Jews believe. And Jews do believe that G-d is caring. Heck, that's one of the core beliefs of Judaism.
 
*mipadi*
post Dec 18 2005, 12:24 PM
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QUOTE(perplexism @ Dec 18 2005, 11:42 AM)
Er, well, you're implying that Rabbi Nyer is corrupt and is lying to the public about her faith for her own benefit, as Catholic priests once did? Look, I'm not saying that everything Rabbi Nyer said is universally correct; I'm saying that it's what Jews believe. And Jews do believe that G-d is caring. Heck, that's one of the core beliefs of Judaism.
*

A caring god is not necessarily incompatible with one who is vengeful and jealous. Cannot a god be caring towards those who believe in Him and His power, yet jealous and vengeful towards those who turn their back on Him?
 
Spirited Away
post Dec 18 2005, 09:55 PM
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QUOTE(Weird addiction @ Dec 18 2005, 9:18 AM)
That isn't my point. It was just a statement... mellow.gif
According to the bible, he "blasphemed" sp?.
.
*

I don't think blasphemous can be turned into a verb, but I get the idea.

All, or I should say most, non-Christians are blasphemous, so what's your point? huh.gif Or were you being sarcastic and I completely missed it? wacko.gif
 
*Weird addiction*
post Dec 19 2005, 07:17 AM
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QUOTE(Spirited Away @ Dec 19 2005, 4:55 AM)
I don't think blasphemous can be turned into a verb, but I get the idea.

All, or I should say most, non-Christians are blasphemous, so what's your point?  huh.gif Or were you being sarcastic and I completely missed it?  wacko.gif
*

...i see, so how do you put it in past tense? Anyways...that's what i'm saying. If God does exist, him and all non-christians (including me) are going to hell...if you still don't understand, please don't try...j'en ai marre d'expliquer... rolleyes.gif
 
*disco infiltrator*
post Dec 19 2005, 01:25 PM
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Committed blasphemy, I suppose.
 
*mipadi*
post Dec 19 2005, 01:29 PM
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QUOTE(Weird addiction @ Dec 19 2005, 7:17 AM)
...i see, so how do you put it in past tense?
*

"Blaspheme" is the verb form of blasphemy; the past tense is, of course, "blasphemed".
 
sadolakced acid
post Dec 19 2005, 03:29 PM
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yes, i did blashpheme.

and i'll raise you one.

if my perception of what a christian god is is correct, and this god actually exists, i'd rather burn in eternity than spend the briefest time with him.
 
Spirited Away
post Dec 19 2005, 07:34 PM
Post #624


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QUOTE(Weird addiction @ Dec 19 2005, 7:17 AM)
...i see, so how do you put it in past tense? Anyways...that's what i'm saying. If God does exist, him and all non-christians (including me) are going to hell...if you still don't understand, please don't try...j'en ai marre d'expliquer... rolleyes.gif
*

c'est tout que j'ai eu besoin de savoir, no need for unpleasantries.
 
*Weird addiction*
post Dec 20 2005, 06:34 AM
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QUOTE(mipadi @ Dec 19 2005, 8:29 PM)
"Blaspheme" is the verb form of blasphemy; the past tense is, of course, "blasphemed".
*

I was right then.

QUOTE
c'est tout que j'ai eu besoin de savoir, no need for unpleasantries.

...umm Ok?
 
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