Creation or Evolution?, Which do you believe in? Options

[*mipadi*]

Where exactly did Rome come into the conversation?

[Mulder]

Where exactly did Rome come into the conversation?

i confuzzled.

[*mipadi*]

 
i confuzzled.   

Oh, I see. It's in reference to a grossly erroneous timeline that was posted.

[Mulder]

Oh, I see. It's in reference to a grossly erroneous timeline that was posted.

ah. sorry.

and i used confuzzled..because i havent gotten to say it in years. it felt like the right time.

so, the discussion now is over how jesus fits into the roman empire/greek empire timeline? wth does that have to do with evolution or creation.

[*disco infiltrator*]

No. There's no discussion. John simply corrected the kid. It's over. Moving on.

[EddieV]

In order for one to evolve, one must be created. Although I believe that we weren't created as humans, we evolved from something else.

[sadolakced acid]

creationism asserts that all species on the earth were created exactly as they are now in a single day. (except for humans, those are on a different day)

[NoSex]

In order for one to evolve, one must be created. Although I believe that we weren't created as humans, we evolved from something else.

Created by natural process, sure. A "creation" does not require a sentient being wielding magic powers and jealous attitudes.

[EddieV]

Created by natural process, sure. A "creation" does not require a sentient being wielding magic powers and jealous attitudes.

I never said that, we don't know how we were created from, but in order for one to exist one must be created, but the question is...

How were we created?

[EndlessSite]

Creation.

To believe that we evolved from monkeys is an insult to the human race.

Even if so, where did the monkeys come from?

[Mulder]

Creation.

To believe that we evolved from monkeys is an insult to the human race.

Even if so, where did the monkeys come from?

the monkeys evolved too.

i guess monkeys over millions of years evolved from the first mammals.

all mammals did.

its been a while since i had biology.


but i have a really hard time believing that god created the world in 6 days. the whole adam and eve concept..

it just seems silly to me. and i was raised on that concept.

[sadolakced acid]

Creation.

To believe that we evolved from monkeys is an insult to the human race.

Even if so, where did the monkeys come from?

to believe we were created by a greater being is an insult to the human race. and the greater being. i mean, who would be as stupid to create humans?



1- we did not evolve from monkeys.
2- monkeys came from ancient mammals, which evolved into monkeys.
3- evolution does not attempt to explain how life was formed, only how life changes.

the conflict between creationism and evolution comes not from how life was started, but rather from the assertion by creationism that all species in the world were created as-is, and evolution's proof that species change over time, and if a popuation is sepearted somehow, evolve into different species.

[*disco infiltrator*]

GEH READ THE THREAD PEOPLE THIS IS PATHETIC

We did NOT evolve FROM monkeys. No theory, no books, no scientists, no credible sources will say that. That is not what the theory of evolution states.

We evolved ALONGSIDE monkeys from a COMMON ANCESTOR.

http://www.mnh.si.edu/anthro/humanorigins/ha/a_tree.html
The first group of data on an early human:

Inhabiting eastern Africa between four and three million years ago, Australopithecus afarensis was a long-lived species that may have given rise to the several lineages of early human that appeared in both eastern and southern Africa between two and three million years ago. For its antiquity, A. afarensis is one of the better known species of early human, with specimens collected from over 300 individuals. It is a species that exhibits many cranial features which are reminiscent of our ape ancestry, such as a forward protruding (prognathic) face, a "U-shaped" palate (with the cheek teeth parallel in rows to each other similar to an ape) and not the parabolic shape of a modern human, and a small neurocranium (brain case) that averages only 430cc in size (not significantly larger than a modern chimpanzee).

The specimens recovered have given representative examples of almost all of the bones of the A. afarensis skeleton. From this, it is clear that there are many significant difference between A. afarensis and its ape predecessors, one of which is crucial to later human evolution, bipedality.

The position of A. afarensis in the phylogeny of early humans is under debate. Many feel that it is ancestral to the east African "robust" early humans, and possibly to all robust forms. Additionally, A. afarensis is proposed as the ancestor to later Homo. Yet, research now suggests that A. africanus might be ancestral to later Homo.

Wow, does that look a little bit like a chimpanzee to you?
.....
Do you think that's a coincidence?

There's no way someone can deny that this happened when all the evidence is sitting right there in front of their faces. I really don't understand. How can you not believe something you're looking straight at? How could it not exist? It's right there.

[EndlessSite]

lol.

We didn't do anything. Maybe you evolved alongside monkeys, but this girl here didn't. I don't believe in that.

Proof? Tsk. If I handed you a bunch of sh!t and said it was from an alien, would you believe me, because I said it was proof?

And still no one answered my question. If you believe in evolution, then where did the monkeys come from? Did Darwin tell you that?

[NoSex]

I never said that, we don't know how we were created from, but in order for one to exist one must be created, but the question is...

How were we created?

Prove it. How certain can you be that the universe needed to be created?

If you assert that in order for one to exist, one must be created, you are throwing yourself into an infinite regression of creations.

Who created us? The creater.
Who created the creator? The creator of the creator.
Who created the creator of the creator? The creator of the creator of the creator.
Ad infinitum.

Talk to nearly any theoretical physicist, and they will tell you about Space-Time Continuum. Talk to nealy any metapsysicist, they may tell you that existence is a base primacy which is the motor at which the law of causality operates. Think about it.

To believe that we evolved from monkeys is an insult to the human race.

1. We did not evolve from modern apes and or monkeys.
2. These modern apes share a common ancestor with us. We are cousins.
3. Whether it is "insulting" or not has no weight on the truth value of the proposition. You are being emotional and fighting an argument from ridicule. The truth is the truth, whether it is "insulting" or not.

Even though, what do you think is more insulting; That we evolved gradually from lesser life-forms or that we were created instantly as we are today from dirt?

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

If you believe in evolution, then where did the monkeys come from?

I really don't know what you are trying to get at. They evolved too?

[sadolakced acid]

lol.

We didn't do anything. Maybe you evolved alongside monkeys, but this girl here didn't. I don't believe in that.

Proof? Tsk. If I handed you a bunch of sh!t and said it was from an alien, would you believe me, because I said it was proof?

And still no one answered my question. If you believe in evolution, then where did the monkeys come from? Did Darwin tell you that?

it is obvious you are not reading the thread.

evolution doesn't deal with who actually created life. it doesn't care. it cares about how life changes- something creationism cannot deal with.


and i do not care if you didn't evolve alongside monkeys, becuase then you obviously are not human.

as far as proof of evolution- seperate studies have been done with bacteria, fruit flys, and mice following as many as 120 generations, prooving speciation by natural selection, the basis of evolution. This has also been observed in nature.

in fact there is more proof that evolution is correct than for momentum.

[*disco infiltrator*]

lol.

We didn't do anything. Maybe you evolved alongside monkeys, but this girl here didn't. I don't believe in that.

Proof? Tsk. If I handed you a bunch of sh!t and said it was from an alien, would you believe me, because I said it was proof?

And still no one answered my question. If you believe in evolution, then where did the monkeys come from? Did Darwin tell you that?

Monkeys came from the same place every single other living thing came from. Did you pay attention in Science class?

Showing me something isn't evidence; watching something in action is. Multiple instances of visuals and proof is evidence.

Both evolution and natural selection have been observed and recorded. People have watched it happen. How can you possibly say it didn't happen? If ANYTHING, intelligent design would be a nice explanation.

Evolution happened. You, nor anyone else, is going to disprove it - it happened. You cannot change history.

Where do you think all of these skeletons came from if humans were simply *poof* created, as they are today? What are these other species that don't exist today?

[EddieV]

Prove it. How certain can you be that the universe needed to be created?

I didn't say that the universe was created, that's one of those questions that will never be answered. I do however believe in the Big Bang Theory. I also believe that life was created. How? I don't know. Although I would say that life was created by recombining structures of matter.

[*mipadi*]

Prove it. How certain can you be that the universe needed to be created?

If you assert that in order for one to exist, one must be created, you are throwing yourself into an infinite regression of creations.

Who created us? The creater.
Who created the creator? The creator of the creator.
Who created the creator of the creator? The creator of the creator of the creator.
Ad infinitum.

Talk to nearly any theoretical physicist, and they will tell you about Space-Time Continuum. Talk to nealy any metapsysicist, they may tell you that existence is a base primacy which is the motor at which the law of causality operates. Think about it.

I'm not questioning the statements here, but merely asking for a clarification: If something exists, how can it never have been created? And how precisely does theories of a space-time continuum play into all this?

[sadolakced acid]

fundamental law of physics:

matter can neither be created nor destroyed.

[NoSex]

I'm not questioning the statements here, but merely asking for a clarification: If something exists, how can it never have been created? And how precisely does theories of a space-time continuum play into all this?

You asked, "If something exists, how can it never have been created?" The problem with this question is that you are assuming that a prerequisite to existence is creation. Which, fails miserably as a premise. If existence is the totality of all existent things, how can it be created, given that only existent things have the possibility to create. Given this, something has to exist before a creation. You can not have creation without existence.

Creation requires the assistance of time. Because, if something is to be created, it's creator or cause must exist temporally prior to said creation. Quite simply, causes are always temporally prior to their effects. This requires the existence of time, as well as an existent cause which has the ability to effect itself or another existent material.

Spicetime requires the unity of space and time. Can we have one without the other? No. So, given that without time, we have no space, no matter, and that with time we do have space, and matter, and motion, it would be safe to say that at no time has there been nothing. And, at all time has there been something.

To assume at any point in time that there has been a period of nothingness would be to deny our entire reality of existence. So, I believe that at all time there has been something.

Creationists love the saying, "Something can not come from nothing." In physics, this isn't exactly accurate. It would be more accurate to say, "Nothing can come from something." The first law of thermodynamics is the law of conservation. In laymen terms, "Energy nor Matter can be created or destroyed." In our universe, Energy is a constant. All we can get from something, is something. Nothing other than that something [changed] will come forth from something.

In the end, the debate falls to what is more reasonable a "beginning"; A god, or a natural universe.

Occam's Razor would dictate that the best explanation carries the least amount of assumptions. In effect, the natural universe follows. I mean, God creating the universe out of no raw materials is like building a lego castle without legos. It's impossible.

[*Weird addiction*]

to believe we were created by a greater being is an insult to the human race.   and the greater being.  i mean, who would be as stupid to create humans?

You know, if god does really exist...be sure you'll be going to hell.

[*disco infiltrator*]

I think both Justin and I know that, pending Hell exists in the first place, we'll be leaving on a jetplane right on down there.

I don't know him, but I'm content with that.

[*mipadi*]

You know, if god does really exist...be sure you'll be going to hell. 

And so what's your point--believe in God, just to be on the safe side?

[Spirited Away]

You know, if god does really exist...be sure you'll be going to hell. 

So you're saying God is vengeful and... mean?

< confused.