Creation or Evolution?, Which do you believe in? Options

[sadolakced acid]

ahhhhh. if you still think humans evolved from chimps pllease DON'T post in this thread.

or maybe you could read some of my posts...

humans evolved from a the ancient apes... not chimps.

the ancient ape line split, one becoming the homonid line and one becoming the great ape line.

this is true. there is fossil record and embryology to back it up.

now please don't say humans evolved from chimps.

[picaso_smile]

Think about this... Who created the universe? Surely something so devine and expansive was created by a higher power! What makes a heart beat? What really causes it to pump blood? What gives us life?

Science can't answer this...

You agree with evolution? I say you're scared of the truth. Scared of judgement. Scared of being wrong. Scared you've been wasting time. Scared you'll pay in the end.

If you believe both: Somewhere in the bible it says something to the effect of each day is "like a thousand years" to God. So possibly him creating man kind is this period of "evolution"? My thoughts so take it or leave it...

Also-- wouldn't you rather live a good Christian life even if there is no God in the end?? You would at least have peace knowing you were kind, loved, and helped many people?
Or would you rather reject God and be damned to hell for all eternity??

[sadolakced acid]

Think about this... Who created the universe? Surely something so devine and expansive was created by a higher power! What makes a heart beat? What really causes it to pump blood? What gives us life?

Science can't answer this...

You agree with evolution? I say you're scared of the truth. Scared of judgement. Scared of being wrong. Scared you've been wasting time. Scared you'll pay in the end.

let's go over this slowly, as you will surely want a thourogh response.

1. Think about this... Who created the universe?
science doensn't say. big bang, but caused by who? no one knows.

2. Surely something so devine and expansive was created by a higher power!
and this is... according to what? the bible? surely something as divine as spelling could be created by... your god? the universe is mostly empty space. what was created? can you tell me? this is an opinion anyways.

3. What makes a heart beat?
well, you'll say something later like 'i wasn't being serious' but you seem to think science is stupid so i'll explain it.
the heart is made out of cardiac muscle. this is striated muscle, but the striations are in different directions. what distinguishes heart muscle is the intercalated disks between the muscle cells, which allows the heart muscles to contract as one unit. now you might know what muscle is, or you might not. so i'll explain. it's made up of protiens, myosin and actin. the myosin has heads that attach to the actin and jerk back when a calcium ion is released, which removed the block that kept the heads from attaching in the first place. the heads work like hands pulling a rope, thus contracting. now, going to specifics about the heart:
the heart is controled like any other muscle, with nerves. the nerves start at the pacemaker, which starts the electrical signals. when the nerves get to muscles, a neurotransmitter is released and it causes calcium ions to be released in the cells and the depolarization of the membrane. this causes the heart to contract.


4. What really causes it to pump blood?
what does... let's see... calcium ions. the pacemaker. see #3

5. What gives us life?
life comes from other life, which comes from chemicals. what gives us life is our genetic code, which allows for the creation of something alive.

5.1 Science can't answer this...
sure science can... it just did. not the 'who created the universe one' but no one can. no, not even the bible, because the bible was written by people interperating 'god's ' words. not god himself, and not even jesus.

6. You agree with evolution?
of course i do. it's proven. but that's my opinion, and you probably won't belive the proof. even though it's more proven than magma in the earth.

7. I say you're scared of the truth.
that's your opinion again... but let me tell you. i'm not afraid of the truth. i search for the truth. and i find it.

8. Scared of judgement.
scared of judgement? why would i be scared of judgement? i fear no such thing... again, an opinion. but i will still refute it. judgement by whom? god? St. Peter? judgement on if i belive in god?

9. Scared you've been wasting time.
yet again, an opinion. when are you going to debate? well, anyways, this 'time wasting' called science has already saved your life. and it enables you to type on the computer of yours.

10. Scared you'll pay in the end.
pay in the end? for not beliving? but wait... if i don't belive, i wouldn't be scared. if i did belive, then i would have nothing to be afraid of... why are you a christian? some people are christians because they're afraid of what if the christians are right and that if you don't belive in god you burn? yet again, this is an opinion. Look closer, deeper. you who pays in the end? everone, because everone dies. and by the way, the way christianity works, if when i die i decied i belive in jesus and god, i get to be in heaven anyways, even if i was a mass murderer. i'd get to walk with the saints.


And, seeing as you've edited your post, there's more to say.

If you believe both: Somewhere in the bible it says something to the effect of each day is "like a thousand years" to God. So possibly him creating man kind is this period of "evolution"? My thoughts so take it or leave it...

Also-- wouldn't you rather live a good Christian life even if there is no God in the end?? You would at least have peace knowing you were kind, loved, and helped many people?
Or would you rather reject God and be damned to hell for all eternity??

11. If you believe both: Somewhere in the bible it says something to the effect of each day is "like a thousand years" to God. So possibly him creating man kind is this period of "evolution"? My thoughts so take it or leave it..
your thoughts, i'll leave it. but this is debate, at least try to debate it.

12. Also-- wouldn't you rather live a good Christian life even if there is no God in the end??
no, not really. i can live a good life without beliving in god, thank you. and, what's a good christian life? the bible says jesus will not return untill every able ear has heard what he has to offer. so spreading chrisianity is selfish... you just want jesus to take you to heaven. are you proud to be a christian? that's one deadly sin...

13. You would at least have peace knowing you were kind, loved, and helped many people?
a question of a fact? well, let's say it's a fact so it sounds like a debate...
you can have this without being christian too.

14. Or would you rather reject God and be damned to hell for all eternity??
so i should help people for selfish reasons, so i won't be "damned to hell for all eternity??" ? since this is definatly a question, i'll answer this; yes.
because if i don't belive in god, then i won't be damned, according to my beliefs. and if i do belive, i would have been, but i won't anymore because i belive.

This post has been edited by sadolakced acid: Dec 9 2004, 09:04 PM

[waccoon]

Let me say something unrelated to any of the above posts.
There is no substantial evidence support Creation.
There is a scrap of evidence supporting Evolution.
It's your decision. Nobody will be able to prove it.

[pandamonium]

Let me say something unrelated to any of the above posts.
There is no substantial evidence support Creation.
There is a scrap of evidence supporting Evolution.
It's your decision. Nobody will be able to prove it.

there is definately more than a "scrap" of evidence but my question is if we did evolve from a simpler form ..... where did that simpler form come from?

[Spirited Away]

Also-- wouldn't you rather live a good Christian life even if there is no God in the end?? You would at least have peace knowing you were kind, loved, and helped many people?
Or would you rather reject God and be damned to hell for all eternity??

Are you saying that those who are not Christians are not kind, loved, and helps many people? I guess more than half of the population of the world, myself included, are evil, devil incarnates.

Kryo if you're reading this, it's this kind of muddled, offensive, ignorant thinking that has people pissed off and badmouth your religion and Christianity. Even I am having a hard time from refraining myself.

Picaso, I welcome you to read the previous archived threads titled "God" and "God 2". You'll find the answer to your questions there and I'll tell you now that the majority will be "I don't give a damn", in so many words.

[ComradeRed]

In then beginning, there was nothing to begin with, so there was no beginning.


After the non-existant beginning began, nothing had yet began to begin to be.


But before anything could begin to begin to be, something had to begin to begin to be.


So by and by, beginning to be had not yet began to be, so then beginning began to be before the beginning.


But this was only the beginning because the beginning was only beginning to begin to be.


Thus the beginning began to begin to be, and it began before the beginning of the end of the beginning.


So after the beginning before the end began, time and space began to begin to be.


But before this could begin, there had to be the beginning of the big bang.


Thusly the big bang blew and the true beginning began before the beginning to come after this beginning.


Once the big bang blew, the beginning of matter and energy began to begin to be.


But behold! The beginning was only beginning to begin to be because this beginning began before the beginning of the end of the beginning began to be.


And the beginning always begins to be before the beginning of the end begins to be because.... well, because nothing in particular.


Then the new beginning began to be but only before the old beginning began to become dead.


But the new beginning began after the beginning of the end of this beginning.


But before the beginning could begin to end, the beginning of life had to begin to begin to be.


But this did not begin to begin to be until near the beginning of the end.


And these beginnings began before the big bang blew which was before the beginning of the end.


Being before this was the beginning of big bubbles of matter called galaxies bouncing beautifully.


But this was only the beginning because this was the beginning of the beginning before last.


But the being of big bouncing bubbles brought the beginning of the end of the beginning of the big bang.


But life had not yet began to begin to be. Thus the beginning began.


But then, before the beginning of the end began, life began to begin to be, to be boring that is.


But now, the beginning of the end began to be able to begin to be but life didn't want that.


And all began to be good, but before this began the being of the beginning.


But this was only the beginning because the beginning began by being a big bore before the beginning of the end began to be.


Behold, the beginning of the beginning of the end began to begin to be before the big end!


Thusly and verily did the beginning of the end beginning to begin to be became the biggest beginning before the end.


Now the beginning began to begin to end at the ending of the beginning before the big end after the beginning of the beginning.

[sadolakced acid]

Let me say something unrelated to any of the above posts.
There is no substantial evidence support Creation.
There is a scrap of evidence supporting Evolution.
It's your decision. Nobody will be able to prove it.

there is evidence for both.

creationism- the bible. sure, you can't take it work for work. it's not really a source. but it's good enough for most.

evolution;

has been observed happening in nature.
has been induced to happen in labratory expirements.

[Spirited Away]

^^ yea, as crazy as it sounds, I think both sides are "proven". It just depends on which side a person wants to believe more.

[xsilent_kidx]

evolution,think about this..we used to be water dwellers because are blood has the same salt in it as it did millions of years ago..and we take features of other animals.

[picaso_smile]

evolution,think about this..we used to be water dwellers because are blood has the same salt in it as it did millions of years ago..and we take features of other animals.

Wait... huh? Please explain more. I'm not getting what you mean about the salty blood thing.

[sadolakced acid]

i think what xsilent_kidx is trying to say is that our blood is a bit salty, a remenat of our water dwelling days.

although i think it's probably because salt is required for reactions and to maintain a concentration gradient.

however, you can look at embryology:

human embryos devolp with a tail and gills, which disapear later.

[stryker76]

National Geographic just sent out a new issue supporting Evolution and some of the new research supporting it.....

Very interesting

[picaso_smile]

Hummm... This is all very interesting... I belive mostly in creationism, however I think that evolution fits in some places. I don't think it's all black and white.

example:
--God did flood the world and start over a time or two... maybe each time he recreated man-kind, he improved a bit (explaining the fossils indicated we evolved from apes)
-- Maybe after living with so much water on the planet for a long period of time humans adapted, growing gills or tails?? (explaing human embryos developing with gills/tails)

[picaso_smile]

3.  What makes a heart beat?
well, you'll say something later like 'i wasn't being serious'  but you seem to think science is stupid so i'll explain it. 
the heart is made out of cardiac muscle.  this is striated muscle, but the striations are in different directions.  what distinguishes heart muscle is the intercalated disks between the muscle cells, which allows the heart muscles to contract as one unit.  now you might know what muscle is, or you might not.  so i'll explain.  it's made up of protiens, myosin and actin.  the myosin has heads that attach to the actin and jerk back when a calcium ion is released, which removed the block that kept the heads from attaching in the first place.  the heads work like hands pulling a rope, thus contracting.  now, going to specifics about the heart: 
the heart is controled like any other muscle, with nerves.  the nerves start at the pacemaker, which starts the electrical signals.  when the nerves get to muscles, a neurotransmitter is released and it causes calcium ions to be released in the cells and the depolarization of the membrane. this causes the heart to contract. 

5. What gives us life?
life comes from other life, which comes from chemicals. what gives us life is our genetic code, which allows for the creation of something alive.

{{{Please forgive me for double posting, as I did not see the specifics of this post until I after I added my last post.}}}



Yes. So once again you explained the science behind everything. (Hooray for you)
However, you still have not explained what causes us to live. ****I was being totally serious. ****I don't think science is stupid. I think you are. Memorizing facts doesn't give you intelligence. It may give you some wisome but you also have to consider the quality of infomation you're momorizing.
And how have you explained nothing? Well all you explained is how the heart works. I'm aware of everything you said, yes I've taken health and science. So, I obviously know all of this. It seems you bring everything back to these neurotransmitters. So I'll be more specific in my questioning. WHAT CAUSES THE NEUROTRANSMITTER TO MOVE. What tells it to act? How does it know to?

You still didn't answer what causes us to live. Hummm... life comes from other life? And where did that life come from? Our genetic code only tells us HOW we will ive... will we live with a disability? Will we live with green eyes? Etc.

So what if you can bring the reason of life of every living thing back to the science of some small particle. What causes that particle to take action??


My point was 'better safe then sorry". Sure athiests live good lives.... but what happens if they find out they were wrong? If a christian dies and nothing happens it won't matter cause they won't be alive to regret it.

[pandamonium]

My point was 'better safe then sorry". Sure athiests live good lives.... but what happens if they find out they were wrong? If a christian dies and nothing happens it won't matter cause they won't be alive to regret it.

That is one of my thoughts lol you kind of nailed that but i support you in that... how do we know whats going to happen in the after life. lol you took the words right out of my mouth. its kind of scary but we christians have to have faith.... probably there are different kinds of after lives out there ... it just depends on what you are believing in.

[Spirited Away]

My point was 'better safe then sorry". Sure athiests live good lives.... but what happens if they find out they were wrong? If a christian dies and nothing happens it won't matter cause they won't be alive to regret it.

It's simple, good people do good, bad people do bad. Supposedly, all good comes from God. Good people who are non-Christians still do good, meaning they do good without acknowledging God, but they still are good.

If good people really does get screwed over because they're not Christian, then Hell is FULL of good people.

If that's the case, then I rather be in Hell with good people who lived their life being true to their ideals and beliefs then to be in Heaven.

I suppose you want a definition of what is good and what is bad. To me, the answer to both is simple 'common sense' (not the book!) and morality.

And then, there's Hitler. I guess it depends on point of view whether or not he was bad... but here is what he has to say:

"Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."
— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

So, I guess Hitler went to Heaven.

[sadolakced acid]

of course hitler went to heaven. he was a good christian, a beliver.

example:
--God did flood the world and start over a time or two... maybe each time he recreated man-kind, he improved a bit (explaining the fossils indicated we evolved from apes)
-- Maybe after living with so much water on the planet for a long period of time humans adapted, growing gills or tails?? (explaing human embryos developing with gills/tails)

there is not enough water in the world to flood it entirely. even if all the ice in the world, and all the water in the air, and all the underground water were put into the oceans.

Yes. So once again you explained the science behind everything. (Hooray for you)
However, you still have not explained what causes us to live. ****I was being totally serious. ****I don't think science is stupid. I think you are. Memorizing facts doesn't give you intelligence. It may give you some wisome but you also have to consider the quality of infomation you're momorizing.
And how have you explained nothing? Well all you explained is how the heart works. I'm aware of everything you said, yes I've taken health and science. So, I obviously know all of this. It seems you bring everything back to these neurotransmitters. So I'll be more specific in my questioning. WHAT CAUSES THE NEUROTRANSMITTER TO MOVE. What tells it to act? How does it know to?

You still didn't answer what causes us to live. Hummm... life comes from other life? And where did that life come from? Our genetic code only tells us HOW we will ive... will we live with a disability? Will we live with green eyes? Etc.

So what if you can bring the reason of life of every living thing back to the science of some small particle. What causes that particle to take action??


My point was 'better safe then sorry". Sure athiests live good lives.... but what happens if they find out they were wrong? If a christian dies and nothing happens it won't matter cause they won't be alive to regret it.

1. However, you still have not explained what causes us to live. ****I was being totally serious. ****I don't think science is stupid. I think you are. Memorizing facts doesn't give you intelligence

have i not made it clear? once upon a time, by chance, a molecule formed. this was RNA. it was self replicating. it made more of itself. it was not alive. it was like a computer virus, it because widespread because it made more.

this RNA then spawned bacteria. simply by chance, but the bacteria made more of itself than the simple RNA did, so that because a lot, not because of divine will, but because it made more of itself.

this in turn gave rise to DNA, etc.

and what causes us to live? what causes us to have personalities? to think?

it's the way the brain cells connect, and which ions they store.



2. WHAT CAUSES THE NEUROTRANSMITTER TO MOVE.

do you want to know? i can explain it, of course. but i suppose you know it already.

or maybe you don't

what causes the neurotransmitter to move is the depolarization of the membrane of the nerve cell. this is caused by other neurotransmitters that were released from the same thing. and on and on. the first one started by building up it's concentration gradient and shooting off.


3. You still didn't answer what causes us to live. Hummm... life comes from other life? And where did that life come from? Our genetic code only tells us HOW we will ive... will we live with a disability? Will we live with green eyes? Etc.

i'm pretty sure i did answer this. our genetic code is self replicating. it makes more of itself. there are other genetic codes out there, but it's not self replicating. it doesn't become dominant because it doesn't make more. there is only one.

this is what causes us to live.


4. So what if you can bring the reason of life of every living thing back to the science of some small particle. What causes that particle to take action??

the simple fact that that particle attacts certain elements that form more of itself. other particles were around, the just never made more of themselves.

5. My point was 'better safe then sorry". Sure athiests live good lives.... but what happens if they find out they were wrong? If a christian dies and nothing happens it won't matter cause they won't be alive to regret it.

don't you love how religon needs a certain... advertisment to get people to join? that it's only out of fear of what might happen that some people convert?

christains are good. only the ones that are good people tho.

if a christian dies and he is wrong.. nothing bad happens. if he is right, nothing bad happens.

if an athiest dies and he is wrong... he burns for eternity. if he is right... nothing bad happens.

which one is more loving, and extends thier goodwill to everyone, not only those who belive in thier god?

[Oh4SuChSwEeTnEsS]

Did you know that they have scientificaly proved that people came from one man and one woman? evolution makes no sense to me...how can u get something outta nothing? it had to get there somehow...

and btw....atheists are basically saying that there is nothing to live for other than themselves. so why were they put here on earth? and if there is always the chance that they are wrong and there is a God. nothing bad will happen to them if they believe that..cuz they say they are going nowhere anyways! may as well make the safer chance and believe in God! (thats not the only reason to believe that though, just proving a point)
~Andrea~

[sadolakced acid]

Did you know that they have scientificaly proved that people came from one man and one woman? evolution makes no sense to me...how can u get something outta nothing? it had to get there somehow...

one woman. not one man. they proved it for one woman. and in addition, said that she was not the first, it was just that all other familys failed to produce a female generation.

and something out of nothing? i suggest you look into the miller urey expirement. placing inorganic substancse in a gas flask and zapping it, they created amino acids (- makes protiens, which in turn can create other stuff)

and btw....atheists are basically saying that there is nothing to live for other than themselves. so why were they put here on earth? and if there is always the chance that they are wrong and there is a God. nothing bad will happen to them if they believe that..cuz they say they are going nowhere anyways! may as well make the safer chance and believe in God! (thats not the only reason to believe that though, just proving a point)

what happens if christains are right? all the good nonbelivers go to hell, and the belivers go to heaven to... bask in the greatness of god?

let me ask you... what are the reasons for beliving in god? and then, ask yourself. what are the reasons apple gives for buying an ipod? or that brinks gives for buying a security system? and now, which of those are similar?

[Oh4SuChSwEeTnEsS]

The big band theory: universe is a vast nothingness. particles of matter collide and bang we have life. if it is nothing, where did this matter come from? and how did LIVING creature form from it? Very soon, as in a matter of days, after Darwin released his theory, he took it back. Honestly, it makes more sense to believe that vcreation happened and at least someone made it all happen rather than everything just sorta happened in the right time and place. im not trying to argue here...just get my point across. and yes, i believe in God. we go to heaven to do what we were intented to do b4 adam and eve sinned. to worship God and live in his glory for eternity. how did the inorganic substances get there in the first place?

[Spirited Away]

and btw....atheists are basically saying that there is nothing to live for other than themselves. so why were they put here on earth? and if there is always the chance that they are wrong and there is a God. nothing bad will happen to them if they believe that..cuz they say they are going nowhere anyways! may as well make the safer chance and believe in God! (thats not the only reason to believe that though, just proving a point)
~Andrea~

By the way, Andrea, don't assume to think like Atheist, when you're not. Atheists and Agnostics are free thinkers, thus, they think as they like and no one Atheist and Agnostic think the same of everything.

Also, please refer to this thread to find out what some Atheists and Agnostics live for. We've answered to this silly assumptions many, many times before, so please don't assume that we do not have anything to live for. It's degrading.

One of such answer is "living is a purpose in itself...", which was said by me and I've also extended the answer in that thread. So please refer to that.

[Oh4SuChSwEeTnEsS]

I never claimed to know what atheists believe or think. my point is simply this. the main belief that the ideas are based on is that there is no god and we go no where after we die. wouldnt u rather be safe than sorry? Please dont think that i am saying that the only reason to be a christian is fire insurance. def not.

[Spirited Away]

I never claimed to know what atheists believe or think.

You said "they are basically saying" one thing, when.. they're not. Period.

my point is simply this. the main belief that the ideas are based on is that there is no god and we go no where after we die. wouldnt u rather be safe than sorry? Please dont think that i am saying that the only reason to be a christian is fire insurance. def not.

I have already answered to the "better be safe than sorry" line of argument:

It's simple, good people do good, bad people do bad. Supposedly, all good comes from God. Good people who are non-Christians still do good, meaning they do good without acknowledging God, but they still are good.

If good people really does get screwed over because they're not Christian, then Hell is FULL of good people.

If that's the case, then I rather be in Hell with good people who lived their life being true to their ideals and beliefs then to be in Heaven.
I suppose you want a definition of what is good and what is bad. To me, the answer to both is simple 'common sense' (not the book!) and morality.

And then, there's Hitler. I guess it depends on point of view whether or not he was bad... but here is what he has to say:

"Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."
— Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

So, I guess Hitler went to Heaven.

[Oh4SuChSwEeTnEsS]

God knows your motive and whats in your heart.if you have attended church all your life and basically lived a good life, but never accepted the truth, you were stubborn and lost your chance with God. its too late for you once you die. if you never were exposed to chrch, but had a basic understanding of god and believed in him, lived your life in the best way that you knew how, but never actually asked God into your life bc u never were told that, he can decide your motives. hes God. he understands your mentality. this is controversial with many ppl bc they like to be technical and draw a line in the sand. saved or not. God isnt really like that.