"under God", should it be taken out?? |
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 Jul 29 2006, 04:39 PM
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#151
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Senior Member  Group: Member Posts: 1,098 Joined: May 2005 Member No: 143,687  |
The thing about "under god" is that it doesnt say which god-Christianity's god, Muslim God, Orthodox god. Cuz apparently they are all different- hence all the wars in GODs name but anywhom I dont think it should be taken out just because its a tradition and if we are going to start taking out references of god then we should start looking at some laws and bills that are passed which have a lot of religion behind them
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Jul 29 2006, 04:41 PM
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#152
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 Krista. Group: Official Member Posts: 4,380 Joined: Apr 2006 Member No: 391,319 |
QUOTE(ichigofan @ Jul 29 2006, 4:39 PM)  The thing about "under god" is that it doesnt say which god-Christianity's god, Muslim God, Orthodox god. Cuz apparently they are all different- hence all the wars in GODs name but anywhom I dont think it should be taken out just because its a tradition and if we are going to start taking out references of god then we should start looking at some laws and bills that are passed which have a lot of religion behind them yes, that's true. but what about the atheists? |
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| *I Shot JFK* |
Jul 30 2006, 06:05 AM
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#153
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Millions of people will be upset, yes, but it wll not be n affront to their rights, whereas the current phrasing is and affront to the rights of those who are upset now. so one set of upset trumps the other.
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Jul 30 2006, 07:33 AM
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#154
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 in the reverb chamber. Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 4,022 Joined: Nov 2005 Member No: 300,308 |
The words should be taken out just for the simple reason that I am an American, but it does not represent me, it pushes me away. I would like to stand and say our pledge without being forced into silence because of my religious position. That is awful. We should be united and equally represented, that is what this country has always been about, not any god!
In the early 1700's, our national motto read "E pluribus unum." This meant, "From Many, Come One." This represented the unification of the colonies and of the people, despite differences. In 1956 our national motto was changed to "In God We Trust." This was in direct relation to the Red Scare and the atheism of communism. It was political propoganda. Everyone keeps trying to fight an odd kind of argument from tradition. Somehow, whatever came first must be best. Well, that's just nuts. It's fallacious in the first place, but the worst of it is... you got your traditions all messed up. We once were united, but not religous vigor divides us. I honestly believe, it is disrespectful, but above all else, it is arrogant and short-sighted, to support the words "Under God," in our national pledge. Let's unite everyone, we're America, not a f**king church. Seriously people. 
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Jul 30 2006, 10:20 AM
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#155
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 Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 2,881 Joined: Apr 2005 Member No: 132,134 |
Yes, "Under God" should be taken out from the pledge. For the simple reason that not everyone believes in God. I'm sure there's other words that can be used in the pledge that is suitable for everyone of all racial means. In school during times we say the pledge, not everyone says it, and I think its for that reason.
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Nov 29 2006, 04:24 PM
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#156
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 portami via Group: Member Posts: 467 Joined: Apr 2005 Member No: 132,187 |
QUOTE(waccoon @ Mar 25 2004, 8:18 PM) it was not added to show opposition to the soviet union and communism. those were eisenhower's exact words when he approved the chance to the pledge. Wanna know what else Eisenhower said? "From this day forward, the millions of our school children will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty." Don't you think the Pledge contradicts itself? "...one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." It's saying that everyone is free to believe and think what they want and that everyone is treated EQUALLY...yet earlier in the statement is a something that does NOT respect the beliefs of all of the American people. I know that it's optional to say "under God", but just the fact that it is OFFICIALLY part of the pledge by law what makes people angry. Besides, even if we DID take out "under God" or "In God We Trust" from our currency, it WOULD NOT be forcing atheism on believers. We're not saying that we want the pledge to be changed to "NOT under a God" or for the money to state "We DON'T Trust In a God". THAT would be atheism. But NOT SAYING ANYTHING is not suggesting anything - it would be completely neutral, and neutrality is the key to respecting the beliefs of individual Americans. And I'm sure you would drop out of the pledge, too, if it said, "one nation, under the god of BOOGABOOGABOOGA..." That's what it's like to atheists and other non-Judeo-Christian-believers. That's just a taste of the debate I'm doing in English class right now. |
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Nov 29 2006, 07:27 PM
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#157
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Newbie Group: Member Posts: 6 Joined: Nov 2006 Member No: 484,082 |
We have a separation of church and state in this country, so no, it doesn't belong in the pledge.
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Jan 2 2007, 04:45 PM
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#158
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 straight as a rainbow and twice as colorful Group: Member Posts: 523 Joined: Mar 2005 Member No: 112,415 |
It doesn't belong in the pledge because it doesn't represent everyone.
but I personally wouldn't say it even if they did take that line out. Until we truly have "liberty and justice for all" I won't say it. And since that will never happen, I'm never going to. |
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| *x1227x* |
Jan 2 2007, 10:12 PM
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#159
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i dont think that it fits in there since some people dont believe in god, and have other religious things they believe in, other than god.
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Jan 18 2007, 05:04 PM
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#160
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 728 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 495,803 |
No, I don't think it should be taken out! It's something that has been around FOREVER and for it to be removed from something just because someone disagrees is rediculous..it's like the whole thing with the manger..did anyone here an arugment on that one?
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Jan 19 2007, 08:14 PM
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#161
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 140 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 492,291 |
i respect the person who fought for "under god" to be taken out of the pledge just recently, however i feel it should not be taken out since it has been in our pledge for many years. if there was a debate on this when the pledge first surfaced than it would be logical for it to be taken out. but since it hasn't it will stay.
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| *IVIike* |
Jan 19 2007, 11:16 PM
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#162
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QUOTE(Podomaht @ Mar 25 2004, 8:42 PM) nope. you dont have to say the pledge. all you have to do is stand up. respect your country. right... enough said |
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Feb 4 2007, 06:09 PM
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#163
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 Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead. Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,682 Joined: Jun 2005 Member No: 156,187 |
QUOTE(Podomaht @ Mar 25 2004, 7:42 PM) nope. you dont have to say the pledge. all you have to do is stand up. respect your country. well said, and it might be the key point to why it might not be removed... although i said yes and I guess its been an issue for the many who aren't Christian ... for this country is a religion based country and it runs it system based on it as well... the United States has always been the one country (one of the few) to allow all races to enter its gates... and not ever one follows the same religion so i'm dying to see how this will turn out |
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| *I Shot JFK* |
Feb 4 2007, 06:28 PM
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#164
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^
It wasn't well said at all. Why hould one stand up to respect a country under a pledge which is blatantly hypocritical? How could one be proud of that? |
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Feb 4 2007, 07:21 PM
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#165
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Two can keep a secret if one of them is dead. Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 2,682 Joined: Jun 2005 Member No: 156,187 |
well there isn't much we can do here on CB
i don't love where the gov. has taken us, yet i can't find another more better place to live.... |
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Feb 4 2007, 09:21 PM
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#166
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 728 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 495,803 |
QUOTE(I Shot JFK @ Feb 4 2007, 3:28 PM) ^ It wasn't well said at all. Why hould one stand up to respect a country under a pledge which is blatantly hypocritical? How could one be proud of that? Why would it matter what other people stand up for. Isn't what counts is what YOU stand up for?
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Feb 5 2007, 02:18 AM
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#167
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 Jake - The Unholy Trinity / Premiscuous Poeteer. Group: Member Posts: 1,272 Joined: May 2006 Member No: 411,316 |
This country was founded on Biblical principles. I know the pledge wasn't created until the twentieth century, but still. It's just taking out apart of our countries heretige.
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| *mishyerr* |
Feb 5 2007, 05:17 PM
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#168
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This is a stupid argument. You don't have to say the pledge. Almost nobody in my first period class says it; they just stand and plop back down when it's finished.
Taking out "under God" would make no difference. I don't even believe in Christian principles, and I really don't care. |
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Feb 5 2007, 05:24 PM
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#169
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 Kimberly Group: Member Posts: 1,961 Joined: Apr 2005 Member No: 121,599 |
Well, considering our founding fathers believed in God, and our nation was formed on moral ethics, I think it should stay how it is. And plus, its part of our nations history.
Just look at what the pledge is all about. Our founding fathers fought and many have DIED fighting for our freedom... the least we could do is give them our respect. And I'm sure all of them wanted and fought for everything the pledge mentions, including a nation under God, so why remove it? Plus, a large majority of Americans have at least a belief in a God. You cant always please such a small minority. Not that I have anything wrong with people not believing in God. You dont have to say the "God" part of the pledge, or any of it for that matter. No one can force you to. |
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Feb 6 2007, 04:49 AM
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#170
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 728 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 495,803 |
I don't understand why it should matter anyway...why worry about something that you CAN'T change
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| *I Shot JFK* |
Feb 6 2007, 05:58 AM
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#171
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QUOTE(happykmd @ Feb 5 2007, 10:24 PM) Well, considering our founding fathers believed in God, and our nation was formed on moral ethics, I think it should stay how it is. And plus, its part of our nations history. Just look at what the pledge is all about. Our founding fathers fought and many have DIED fighting for our freedom... the least we could do is give them our respect. And I'm sure all of them wanted and fought for everything the pledge mentions, including a nation under God, so why remove it? Plus, a large majority of Americans have at least a belief in a God. You cant always please such a small minority. Not that I have anything wrong with people not believing in God. You dont have to say the "God" part of the pledge, or any of it for that matter. No one can force you to. Then clearly you understand nothing about the founding fathers, given that they specifically created a nation lead by a governement which is secular, and free from religion. QUOTE I don't understand why it should matter anyway...why worry about something that you CAN'T change That's a crappy attitude in a democracy, or any free society... |
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Feb 6 2007, 06:44 AM
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#172
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 728 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 495,803 |
QUOTE(I Shot JFK @ Feb 6 2007, 2:58 AM) Then clearly you understand nothing about the founding fathers, given that they specifically created a nation lead by a governement which is secular, and free from religion. That's a crappy attitude in a democracy, or any free society... Whatever you say! It's not an attitude but an opinion and I am free to voice it. |
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Feb 6 2007, 06:18 PM
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#173
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in the reverb chamber. Group: Staff Alumni Posts: 4,022 Joined: Nov 2005 Member No: 300,308 |
QUOTE(Heath21 @ Jan 18 2007, 4:04 PM) No, I don't think it should be taken out! It's something that has been around FOREVER and for it to be removed from something just because someone disagrees is rediculous..it's like the whole thing with the manger..did anyone here an arugment on that one? Forever? Sure, if forever is since 1954. Removing something because someone disagrees? Well, we should always start at disagreement. That's just a good strategy. QUOTE(blaqheartedstar @ Feb 4 2007, 5:09 PM) well said, and it might be the key point to why it might not be removed... although i said yes and I guess its been an issue for the many who aren't Christian ... for this country is a religion based country and it runs it system based on it as well... the United States has always been the one country (one of the few) to allow all races to enter its gates... and not ever one follows the same religion so i'm dying to see how this will turn out We are not a "religion based country." We also do not run our system based on "it." Uhmm, we haven't always allowed all "races" to enter our gates. There have been numerous occasions in American history where we, as a country, forbade all sorts of immigration, including bans on racial and ethnic groups. The pledge is supposed to represent everyone: way to fail. QUOTE(JakeKKing @ Feb 5 2007, 1:18 AM) This country was founded on Biblical principles. I know the pledge wasn't created until the twentieth century, but still. It's just taking out apart of our countries heretige. Not founded on biblical principles. Not even close. It would be eliminating a bastardization of our "heritage." QUOTE(happykmd @ Feb 5 2007, 4:24 PM) Well, considering our founding fathers believed in God, and our nation was formed on moral ethics, I think it should stay how it is. And plus, its part of our nations history. Just look at what the pledge is all about. Our founding fathers fought and many have DIED fighting for our freedom... the least we could do is give them our respect. And I'm sure all of them wanted and fought for everything the pledge mentions, including a nation under God, so why remove it? Plus, a large majority of Americans have at least a belief in a God. You cant always please such a small minority. Not that I have anything wrong with people not believing in God. You dont have to say the "God" part of the pledge, or any of it for that matter. No one can force you to. Not all of our founding fathers believed in "God." Many of our most important, influential, and predominant, founding fathers actually despised Christianity. Although deism was common (look no further than our first few presidents), Jesus played a very minimal role among our most important founding fathers. Many have died. Most had died before 1954. You know what happened in 1954? Figure it out, shit head. The pledge is supposed to represent Americans, not just Americans who believe in God. QUOTE(Heath21 @ Feb 6 2007, 5:44 AM) Whatever you say! It's not an attitude but an opinion and I am free to voice it. Free to voice it all you want. Sure. That doesn't mean it's a good opinion. It sucks. I don't want to have to deal with you morons anymore than I have to. I already made a few posts concerning many of the issues brought up here. Learn something and click the link. http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...t&p=1772248 |
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Feb 7 2007, 02:01 AM
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#174
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Senior Member Group: Member Posts: 728 Joined: Jan 2007 Member No: 495,803 |
QUOTE(Acid Bath Slayer @ Feb 6 2007, 3:18 PM) The pledge is supposed to represent Americans, not just Americans who believe in God. Free to voice it all you want. Sure. That doesn't mean it's a good opinion. It sucks. I don't want to have to deal with you morons anymore than I have to. I already made a few posts concerning many of the issues brought up here. Learn something and click the link. http://www.createblog.com/forums/index.php...t&p=1772248 Same goes for you, doesn't mean your opinion is a good one either. Secondly, if we are such morons, then why do you come here? You are not forced to talk to anyone on here or join the forum debates 
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| *I Shot JFK* |
Feb 7 2007, 06:59 AM
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#175
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^ Well, his is vastly superior, but we'll let that slide.
Nate, as much as i sympathize, please don't call people morons... |
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