Prayer In School, are you against or for prayer in school Options

[*I Viddy Horrorshow*]

^ well, yes, but a moment of silence and a declared moment of prayer are far from the same thing.

[NoSex]

The moment of silence still pisses me off.

[*I Viddy Horrorshow*]

^ Personally, any excuse to put my head down and switch off for a minute is just dandy in my book.

[Stuckie]

^ When America first started out, black people were bought and sold like cattle.

Cute argument, but not well thought through.

Thats a lovely bit of info, but what does it have to do with the topic?

As I said before, public schools were run by the church. The government stepped in and took control of education, which goes against separation of church and state. People believe that the original intention of separation of church and state was to keep the church out of state affairs. This couldn't further from the truth. The intent of separation of church and state was to keep the state out of church affairs. So for the Supreme Court to say that prayer in school is unconstitutional is unconstitutional.

This essay here talks more about it.

[sweetangel2128]

A public school can't oversee something like that. Even if students had the option not to pray and not to participate, a public school shouldn't have the option to say a prayer each morning over the intercom: a teacher shouldn't have the option to speak a prayer over his or her class. It's unconstitutional and imposing either way. My tax dollars are not going to schools so they can proselytize. They're going to schools so they promote education.

Well, I don't believe in that necessarily but I think they should devote one room to like a prayer room for those that want to pray. Get what I mean?

[*I Viddy Horrorshow*]

Thats a lovely bit of info, but what does it have to do with the topic?

As I said before, public schools were run by the church. The government stepped in and took control of education, which goes against separation of church and state. People believe that the original intention of separation of church and state was to keep the church out of state affairs. This couldn't further from the truth. The intent of separation of church and state was to keep the state out of church affairs. So for the Supreme Court to say that prayer in school is unconstitutional is unconstitutional.

This essay here talks more about it.

You said that such and such was how it was when America started out, as if that is an argument in favour of something. I was just pointing out through an example that the past isn't particularly a model of how the present should be.

[Kontroll]

First of all, why was prayer in public schools to begin with? You might not have believed in it, but the Bible is a good moral foundation.

True our country was founded upon separation of church and state, but if so, how did the Bible find it's way into the schools? That's really what I want to know.

I'm a Christian, but I live in a country where every one is equal. If we allowed Christian prayer back into public schools, we'd have to allow all prayer in school. True?

I'm for prayer in public schools, but sadly we live in a nation where sensitivity runs our government.

You said that such and such was how it was when America started out, as if that is an argument in favour of something. I was just pointing out through an example that the past isn't particularly a model of how the present should be.

But you have to think that everything runs in cycles. Eventually there will be a major Christian influence in our nation again, as it has in other countries for hundreds of years.

[*I Viddy Horrorshow*]

^ How is a government which takes sensitivity into account a bad thing?

And also, there already is a major Christian influence in the US. I thas never gone away. The point isn't what influences have favour at any given time, it is what the Constitution permits.

[sweetangel2128]

First of all, why was prayer in public schools to begin with? You might not have believed in it, but the Bible is a good moral foundation.

True our country was founded upon separation of church and state, but if so, how did the Bible find it's way into the schools? That's really what I want to know.

I'm a Christian, but I live in a country where every one is equal. If we allowed Christian prayer back into public schools, we'd have to allow all prayer in school. True?

I'm for prayer in public schools, but sadly we live in a nation where sensitivity runs our government.
But you have to think that everything runs in cycles. Eventually there will be a major Christian influence in our nation again, as it has in other countries for hundreds of years.

Agrreed. Prayer should be in schools but if they are going to do a prayer over intercom, I disagree with that part because it might go against another person's beliefs...but I think it would be cool to have a little prayer room for those that want to participate. And just so everyone else knows you don't need to be a Christian to pray. My mom prays all the time and is not a practicing Christian, she just believes in God. I am sure if you were hanging off a cliff about to plunge to your death you'd be saying a prayer to God.

[Kontroll]

^ How is a government which takes sensitivity into account a bad thing?

And also, there already is a major Christian influence in the US. I thas never gone away. The point isn't what influences have favour at any given time, it is what the Constitution permits.

But what you don't realize, or maybe you do, is that there is something called judicial interpretation. We live in a society now that allows for loose interpretation of the constitution.
Certain issues that aren't clearly stated in the Constitution can't be illegal.

But...

I believe in the first amendment.
Remember, that amendment contains the "Establishment Clause" which prohibits the government from"establishing" religion. Simply put, secular institutions like the public schools should NOT be a forum for religious ritual or indoctrination.

[*I Viddy Horrorshow*]

Yea, I know about JI.

And actually, they can be illegal, just not unconstitutional.

And as for your last point, does that mean you support school prayer, or not?

[sweetangel2128]

Yea, I know about JI.

And actually, they can be illegal, just not unconstitutional.

And as for your last point, does that mean you support school prayer, or not?

He just said he was for prayer in public schools, these were his words - "I'm for prayer in public schools". Read his posts.

[*I Viddy Horrorshow*]

Yes, i know that, which is why i asked specifically about his last point, which seems to be contradicting this. Duh.

[Kontroll]

Yea, I know about JI.

And actually, they can be illegal, just not unconstitutional.

And as for your last point, does that mean you support school prayer, or not?

I support it on a personal level. If it was in public schools, I'd have no problem with it. But it is unconstitutional, so the government can't interfere.

[*I Viddy Horrorshow*]

^ Yea, that's what I thought you were getting at. I'm actually glad there are people who can say sensible things like that, rather than 'I like it, therefore it must happen!' Kudos.

[sweetangel2128]

Yes, i know that, which is why i asked specifically about his last point, which seems to be contradicting this. Duh.

I really don't see how you think that is contradicting. I understood it clearly.

[Kontroll]

Okay, girls...Let's not fight here. Let's act like proper ladies.

VOTE BUSH! PRAYER IN SCHOOLS! YEAH!

[*I Viddy Horrorshow*]

I really don't see how you think that is contradicting. I understood it clearly.

'Simply put, secular institutions like the public schools should NOT be a forum for religious ritual or indoctrination. '

And yet, he said he supports School Prayer.

You really, REALLY need to work on comprehension. Saying something is contradictory isn't the same as not understanding it. honestly. i spend more time in this forum explaning simple concpts to you than straightforward debating.

[sweetangel2128]

'Simply put, secular institutions like the public schools should NOT be a forum for religious ritual or indoctrination. '

And yet, he said he supports School Prayer.

You really, REALLY need to work on comprehension. Saying something is contradictory isn't the same as not understanding it. honestly. i spend more time in this forum explaning simple concpts to you than straightforward debating.

Haha work on my comprehension? I don't think I need to, your just bringing things up to start a fight. I am not going to break because I know it's against the rules When I said I understood I was saying I understood what the person said and I don't see it contradicting.

[font=Arial][font=Arial][font=Arial]

Okay, girls...Let's not fight here. Let's act like proper ladies.

VOTE BUSH! PRAYER IN SCHOOLS! YEAH!

I'm actually surprised Bush hasn't made prayers in schools. Isn't he a Christian?

[Kontroll]

Haha work on my comprehension? I don't think I need to, your just bringing things up to start a fight. I am not going to break because I know it's against the rules When I said I understood I was saying I understood what the person said and I don't see it contradicting.

[font=Arial][font=Arial][font=Arial]

I'm actually surprised Bush hasn't made prayers in schools. Isn't he a Christian?

Well, Bush is only the president and we should know by now that Congress makes the laws. On a federal level that is.

I really think it should be up to the school district. The federal government doesn't need more responsibility.

[tooeffingcrazy]

Against.

Leave the praying for the church. Not everyone is religious.

[sweetangel2128]

Well, Bush is only the president and we should know by now that Congress makes the laws. On a federal level that is.

I really think it should be up to the school district. The federal government doesn't need more responsibility.

Yeah I suppose.

Against.

Leave the praying for the church. Not everyone is religious.

I don't see myself as being religious. I follow God not religion.

[tooeffingcrazy]

I don't see myself as being religious. I follow God not religion.

That doesn't even make sense.


re·li·gious (rĭ-lĭj'əs) Pronunciation Key
adj.
Having or showing belief in and reverence for God or a deity.


You follow God, that's a form of religion. I'm not sure what you catagorize yourself as, but i'm sure as hell you're not atheist.

[sweetangel2128]

That doesn't even make sense.
re·li·gious (rĭ-lĭj'əs) Pronunciation Key
adj.
Having or showing belief in and reverence for God or a deity.
You follow God, that's a form of religion. I'm not sure what you catagorize yourself as, but i'm sure as hell you're not atheist.

If you want to label me, I'm Christian.

Following God and having a religion are totally two different things. Religions have rules, I just go by what the Bible tells me, I only go by God's Word.

Ps: I am not 3 years old, I am very aware of what the definiton of religion is.

[kipani1984]

I voted I don't care, because I could really give a rats ass if somebody wants to bow their head and pray in school. It's not like they're makin me listen to it or do it. However, overly religious people are retarded, make no sense, and entirely too hypocritical, so I can see why it was banned.