killing animals for art Options

[Spirited Away]

What you also need to think is-

Will the world ever have the standard of no wars.

Most of that shit is going to happen one way or another.

Sort of useless arguing about it.

We can't not mourn at all.

What you need to think is, wars are between man and man, not man and beast. Do we wage wars with cats and dogs? No. So, it IS useless arguing with that approach.

I mean, come on.  So what if we are killing damn animals for art.  That is who ever's doings personal way to show themselves, whether you think sick or not.

Exactly. I only think that it's sick and it's immoral. What's it to you? They're still living their disgusting lives disguising as "artists" even if I think that they're psychopaths. They're not going to stop just because I think it's sick. It's not like I have the power to ban them or anything, so what's it to you?

Hell, we go over seas, and start bombing the hell out of civilians because some damned man wants to stop trading oil with us, be we are supposed to be 'liberating' them.

Your point is complete moot because it's completely irrelevant because as I have pointed out before in this thread that we have power over animals and animals do not have power over us. You're saying that animals are inferior yet you are placing them on the same level as civilians? I don't get your logic.

Ehh.  You really have to sit down and think 'When the hell is the world going to live in peace.'

You really need to sit down and think "Cats are not going to kill you for art, so you shouldn't do that to them". Ever heard of "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?

It is a damn endless waltz, the three never ending steps of War, Peace, and Evolution.

And once more, we're not at wars with animals. Do you even know the definition of war? How can we have open conflict with animals when the only one exerting violence is HUMANS.

If you call that a war, then that's kinda sad there.

Oh.. and we should go with the flow.  Wait, we already are!  Bombing each other, we will destroy the world in no time 

What's "in no time" to you? Bombing each other? Once again, does this "bombing each other" have anything to do with animals killing humans for art or vice versa? No. So please try to stay on topic.

People die, Animals die, Everything dies sometime. Why the f**k should anyone care?

I saved the silliest comment for last. If we didn't care about human death, then there shouldn't really be a need for government.

[sadolakced acid]

'

We aren't close to 8 billion people.

We might reach 9 billion, in the predicted.. what, 300 years, I think it was..

We aren't at 8 billion, I know that for sure.

how do you know for sure?

it's over 8 billion.

[Kriegsgefangene]

Government wasn't my fault.

People feel more secure with a government. But, it isn't always true that we are.

If a person can bring them selves to kill another human, wouldn't you think the mental capacity could bring him to kill something else?

If you think about it, once a person kills a person, someone on the same level (which we seem to be on top) Why would it matter what is below us?

If someone kills another person, we could go killing animals for all that we want, just as we kill other people.

All in all, I have never head of killing animals for art, before.

How was this started?

And we seem to have wars against beasts as well.

Hmm.. I think we have hunting season for a reason...

As for the artists.. I don't know what is running through their head. And if they were killing animals for the sake of 'Art', wouldn't they have been arrested, and so on already? Killing animals for art also sounds like something those cult people, 'goths', do..

I place animals on a really close platform to humans, because they have the ability to kill, as well. Did you know more people die from being attack by Hippos than alligators.. well.. I think it was that...

As for the 'Do unto others as you would have done unto you', you got me.

We kill animals and forrests and so on in war. What is the difference? You think war only kills humans?

Sorry about getting off topic for some. It seems to lead me onto things.

[Spirited Away]

[quote=Kriegsgefangene,Dec 11 2004, 8:07 PM] Government wasn't my fault. [/quote]
Wrong. Government is everyone's fault. If you want to debate about that, create another thread and I will explain to you. Better yet, read up on government to find out why that is. I reccommend Thomas Paine and Ben Franklin.


[quote]People feel more secure with a government.  But, it isn't always true that we are.[/quote]

Who's fault is it that we are insecure? The government? Hah! People tend to displace not only their anger but also their insecurities! Try "thinking" that it's the fault of HUMANS that they are insecure. After all, aren't humans the ones who create government? Aren't humans the ones who run the government? The government is corrupted because its officials are corrupted. The government is flawed because those who runs it is flawed.

[quote]If a person can bring them selves to kill another human, wouldn't you think the mental capacity could bring him to kill something else?[/quote]

Who kills another human? You? Me? Who? Soldiers kill because they have a purpose: kill or be killed. People send soldiers out for a purpose that usually involves the lives of MILLIONS. What is the purpose for killing an animal for art? A fleeting moment of pleasure. They are NOT the same.

[quote]If you think about it, once a person kills a person, someone on the same level (which we seem to be on top) Why would it matter what is below us?[/quote]

Once again, you're not getting the point at all, which disappoints me greatly.

We have power over animals they do not have power over us yet we feel pain the same way. We can carve them up and use them as eye candy for pleasure, they can't. They feel that pain, we don't.

That's as simple as I can put it.

[quote]If someone kills another person, we could go killing animals for all that we want, just as we kill other people.[/quote]

You make no sense what so ever.

[quote]All in all, I have never head of killing animals for art, before.[/quote]

You live a sheltered life.

[quote]How was this started?[/quote]

Human abandonment of morality, compassion, and responsibility.

[quote]And we seem to have wars against beasts as well.[/quote]

You do not understand the meaning of war.

[quote]Hmm.. I think we have hunting season for a reason...[/quote]

War is hunting, but hunting is NOT war. Don't get them mixed up so easily.

[quote]As for the artists.. I don't know what is running through their head.  And if they were killing animals for the sake of 'Art', wouldn't they have been arrested, and so on already?  Killing animals for art also sounds like something those cult people, 'goths', do..[/quote]

Unfortunately, it does not seem to be illegal in that part of the world. However, I have said that there are laws set by the government and there are laws set by the human heart.

[quote]I place animals on a really close platform to humans, because they have the ability to kill, as well.  Did you know more people die from being attack by Hippos than alligators.. well.. I think it was that...[/quote]

How many cases? Now compare those meager examples of yours to how many we kill in pounds, on the streets, from hunting, from abuse, from making them into "art". I hope you get the idea now.

[quote]As for the 'Do unto others as you would have done unto you', you got me.[/quote]

And all I did was "think". Imagine that.

[quote]We kill animals and forrests and so on in war.  What is the difference?  You think war only kills humans?[/quote]

We do not kill animals in war, unless you mean human as animals. Name me a war between man and animal then, if you please.

[quote]Sorry about getting off topic for some.  It seems to lead me onto things. [/quote]

Understandable. However, as you argue, try less to say "if you would only think" or "if you think about this"... etc. If I'm not thinking, then I wouldn't be able to write as I do.

[Kriegsgefangene]

I know we are going to go back and forth on certain ideals.. but for this-

TRUCE! :P

I guess our logics would collide on this...

[Sumiaki]

I have a question... is a presentation of a roasted pig on a platter art? Because.. it is artistic the way chefs present food... It's just an innocent question. Don't get all sarcastic on me.

[aznxdreamer]

how do you people know that animals dont feel the same emotions as we do?! i mean..sure pigeons and fish dont have alot of brains, but that doesnt mean they cant feel physical pain! gosh i hate killing animals just for some fancy pansy decorations. theres stuff called fake fur that can be just as real as one that came off something that used to be alive. but nooo..people have to say, "oh, that rug once belonged to a wolf. haha, im rich" who cares?!! go out and buy yourself some fake fur! no one is gonna care!

[Spirited Away]

I have a question... is a presentation of a roasted pig on a platter art? Because.. it is artistic the way chefs present food... It's just an innocent question. Don't get all sarcastic on me.

People eat the pig afterwards right?

[sadolakced acid]

how do you people know that animals dont feel the same emotions as we do?! i mean..sure pigeons and fish dont have alot of brains, but that doesnt mean they cant feel physical pain! gosh i hate killing animals just for some fancy pansy decorations. theres stuff called fake fur that can be just as real as one that came off something that used to be alive. but nooo..people have to say, "oh, that rug once belonged to a wolf. haha, im rich" who cares?!! go out and buy yourself some fake fur! no one is gonna care!

how do you know that humans feel pain when killed? no one ever lives to tell...

[Spirited Away]

Gah, how about the pain of being killed?


Hey, is it just me or does everytime this page loads there's a MSN popup asking for login name and password? It's annoying.

[sadolakced acid]

i use mozilla so i don't get that...

oh sure, there's no doubt that animals and people can feel the pain of being killed.

so let's go to this:

letal injections-

used to execute death row people
used to 'put to sleep' pets that are extremely sick, or they don't have space for at the shelter.

what's the difference? is there one?

[Spirited Away]

Lucky. <edit> that thing is pissing me off.

Compare to how many animals we kill with lethal injections to how many people we kill with lethal injections.

The reason why we don't have space at the shelters is because people aren't responsible. It's so sad that animals must take the consequences for human mistakes.

[sadolakced acid]

yes, it is. but no kill shelters are among the least humane... there's only a certain number of animals you can care for and the rest have to starve and be crowded.

[Spirited Away]

It's not the fault of those shelters that animals must die. It is the fault of stupid people who buy pets and neglect them.

[sadolakced acid]

yes, it's the people's fault... but the very idea of pets is immoral, depending on where you draw the line.

how do you know the dog wants to be with you? how do you know the cat enjoys wearing a sweater?

[Spirited Away]

Whether or not a pet wants to be with its master should be obvious in most cases, and because they would die or suffer elsewhere, it is better to be with a master who cares than on the unforgiving streets.

Cats/Dogs will let their owners know whether or not they like the sweater. If they do not and the owner keeps it on, then the problem lies with the owner. If the cat/dog doesn't like the sweater, but the weather is freezing and the owner acts in the best interest of the animal, then the owner is acting out of compassion. After all, do not mothers forces their children to wear jackets in the cold? How would mothers know if their infants do not like the jackets? And even if infants do not like to be snuggled up, mothers know that it's best to keep them warm.

[sadolakced acid]

but are not these animals, and should not they be in the wild?

` peta's dream is to have al animals, even housepets, runing free in the wild.

[miss barnes]

i dont believe in doing it for stupid reasons, eating, to me is a good reason....

[Spirited Away]

` peta's dream is to have al animals, even housepets, runing free in the wild.

The only thing I like about PETA is the fact that they raise awareness. As for how they do things and their mission/ideals... that's a whole different story.

but are not these animals, and should not they be in the wild? 

We've long established a general difference between wild animals and domesticated animals. Wild animals would do fine in the wilds. Domesticated animals, however, wouldn't do as fine.

[sadolakced acid]

exactly. these animals which were killed for 'art' are domesticated. the animal will already be killed because they're in a shelter. why not make art of them?

[Spirited Away]

So because they are domesticated, it would be okay for them to be mutilated?

Domesticated or not, animals feel pain the same way. There isn't a difference as to how each species (domesticated/wild animals and humans) suffers. So why not make art of humans who are killed/murdered? I'm sure, as someone has pointed out, it has already been done. However, I see that as a morbid thing to do just as how I feel about killing animals for art.

Do humans who died by lethal injection get carved up and displayed as art? I should hope not.

[sadolakced acid]

they do.

a while back, an inmate on deathrow wanted to donate his body to science. it was deemed that he couldn't be denied this right. no scientific institute wanted people know them as 'the people with the murderer' finally one did take him, and guess what he was used as?

not quite. this was before MRIs, and no one knew exactly what the inside of the body looked like... so they froze him so he was a solid block of ice, and cut of one mm of him at a time, and took a picture. it was one of the first times people could see what lay along a certain plane in a body.

now, you can find pictures of him, carved up for all to see.

[Spirited Away]

Sure. And also medical students must practice on dead bodies, too.

However, science is different from art. We learn some helpful things to advance science from his body, did we not?

What does one learn from killing an animal then displaying it as art? <Edit> What does one learn from viewing a carcass on a vase?

[sadolakced acid]

i have no idea what one might learn from it, but i know what it might make one do

art is good for invoking emotion. this clearly has done so.

currently laws allow for this, there is no banning of this. this art could motivate people to be animal rights activists.

this, animals being used for art, is allowed because it must be. not because it is right, but because of free speech.

a law, used to prevent the display of dead animals as art, could be interperated as a law preventing the use of animals in dissection classes by a judge.

this law could also be interpreted so that a painting that shows immigrants trying to cross the border, and running from border patrol men who look like they might be running them down with cars.

this law could also be extended so that a political cartoon depicting the president in a bad light could be banned.

such a law, if it were to prevent the display of dead animals as art, could very easily evolve into a very bad law.

such is this possiblility that we must live with this 'art' so that we can enjoy real art.

[Spirited Away]

Such emotion is fleeting. Pleasure will pass as soon as the person finds the next interesting thing.

There is no need for animal activists if people were to respect animals. '

There is no need for laws against such "art", no need for such unnecesarry hurt, if it didn't exist in the first place.