Jesus, God's son. Options

[Spirited Away]

By the way that's an interesting quote by Paine..do you konw if he is Deist?

Yup, he's a Deist and I sort of look up to him as mentor... sounds kind of weird, but I've found that my philosophy corresponds to his and Ben Franklin's... They're my heroes. You'll find that I quote them quite frequently if the situation applies.

[ComradeRed]

Most of the Founders were Deist...

[CrimsonArchangel]

If He lacks control, does that not make Him not omnipotent?....

God doesn't lack control. He has all the control he wants. The thing is that he is also a loving God. He doesn't want to make us mindless robots that do exactly whatever he wants us to d, no if's but's or and's asked. If that was the case then he would be more like a dictator than a loving God. And it has been proved in human history that dictators are not a pretty thing.

Now here's the rub. I've been told in the previous God topic and by Sik that when I know of God but do not believe in Him, then that would be disobedience and unremorseful... which will condemn me to Hell.

Isn't knowing and believing pretty much the same? It is to me... so if you know there is something, you must believe it is there... eek... me confoosed, hehe.
And there is no hell. Its something in people's minds. What I believe in is that all those that will end up on the other side (the dark side) are those that actively and purposefully follow the Devil.

But because Christians must spread the word about God, I've been forced to know and therefore forced to go to Hell... isn't that how it works?

No one should force anyone to do anything. Sorry if this offends you (don't mean to in any way), but I think that you really do want to know about God. At least get all your questions answered. But let me tell you something. Not all your questions will be answered. There are things that are way beyond human knowledge (like "Where did God come from?" What is time? That sort of thing).

Fae, you won't go to hell because some christians have told you that because you don't go to church or are a "bible thumper" (like you say, ) you are going to spend eternity burning in the fires of hell with the devil. It just doesn't work that way. For all you know, they will end up in "hell" because they give a bad rep to christianity. (Personal opinion, please no one get offended by this. I tend to be sarcastic quite often).

[xnastyninjagrlx]

He lacks control because he chooses to, but then he condemns non-believers for something that He chose to do... meaning, He chose to remain a mystery to non-believers, but forsaken them when they die simply because of His own choosing... that's brutal.

You know..you actually got me thinking about this comment you had earlier. It makes a lot of sense that God condemns people for something he gives us free will to do. However; God is always holy and pure and people always take the blame on Him. He gives us free will because he wants us to choose to follow Him because we WANT to. He loves us so much that he wants all of us to be different and that is why he made each and every one of us in his own image. People today who don't know about the love of God can only blame us Christians. I have to admit Christians are sometimes the biggest hypocrite of all. We fear about sharing his love because of our pride, reputation, embarrasement or wutever our issue is. It isn't God's fault non-believers don't hear about his Word, but rather it's Christians who are not living their daily lives as God intended them to be. Sadly to say..it is true that most people will die without even hearing about God once, but that is our duty as Christians to fulfill...to "go out to all nations and spread the news" until God comes once again to earth.

[Spirited Away]

God doesn't lack control. He has all the control he wants. The thing is that he is also a loving God. He doesn't want to make us mindless robots that do exactly whatever he wants us to d, no if's but's or and's asked. If that was the case then he would be more like a dictator than a loving God. And it has been proved in human history that dictators are not a pretty thing. 

To Angel
You know what... I sort of forgot why I said that.....

Isn't knowing and believing pretty much the same?  It is to me... so if you know there is something, you must believe it is there... eek... me confoosed, hehe.
And there is no hell. Its something in people's minds. What I believe in is that all those that will end up on the other side (the dark side) are those that actively and purposefully follow the Devil.

When I say "believe" I rather think of the word as belief as in believing in a faith, so to speak. I would have to accept it as a truth to be able to believe in it. If I know that it's a truth, then I will believe, but if I know that there are uncertainties in it's 'truth' then I cannot believe.... Does that make any sense? Well, I think knowing and believing do not tend to yield the same results.

No one should force anyone to do anything.    Sorry if this offends you (don't mean to in any way), but I think that you really do want to know about God. At least get all your questions answered. But let me tell you something. Not all your questions will be answered. There are things that are way beyond human knowledge (like "Where did God come from?" What is time? That sort of thing).

I think everyone questions God at one time or another after hearing of Him. It's in our curious nature to want to know how we came to being and what purposes we have while living. Even all the greatest philosophers or thinkers, scientists, and mathematicians must but curious about God at some time in their lives... Essentially, we're all curious. Because our curiosity go unsated, due to a lack of answers, that there are Deists, Agnostics, Scientologists, Atheists... etc.

Oh, I do not doubt that there are Christians who would go to Hell... But the fact that while living, they give non-Christians a hard time and that's what getting to me and many people who have been responding negatively in all topics about religion...

To xnastyninjagrlx
I think I sort of responded to your comment to me while answering to Angel... but there is a book, called "When Bad Christians Happen to Good People" by Dave Burchett, that basically delve into what you're saying.

[xnastyninjagrlx]

Oh, I do not doubt that there are Christians who would go to Hell... But the fact that while living, they give non-Christians a hard time and that's what getting to me and many people who have been responding negatively in all topics about religion...

Yah I'm sorry to say that there are Christians who are just like "listen to me or else" and I know that can give a lot of pressure and anger for non-believers. I don't believe as Christians we should be giving non-believers a hard time, and I am very sorry you had to encounter some. There is nothing more to say, but that Christians has a reputation to live up to too..like being kind, caring, forgiving..etc..and we don't live up to that MOST of the time cuz we are humans, but I'm not trying to make an excuse about our attitude and behavior. I just really hope that your curiosity does not end because you meet some Christians who are like that. I hope you continue to seek the answers you are looking for because I believe curiosity is the first step to knowledge and I know God is working through all of us in this forum.

[IIO__oII]

^are we talking about... Jesus? -_-?
haha if you guys are going to talk about GOD, then post in the GOD section.

haha. anyways...
Jesus is either... a liar, lunitic, or Lord.
choose your pick.
personally, i think he's Lord. =]

[sikdragon]

Jesus is God, so talking about God here is the right way to go.

[Spirited Away]

If Jesus is God, then why must there be two of the same topic?

[Mireh]

If Jesus is God, then why must there be two of the same topic?

Because Jesus is not god. Towards most people, Jesus is but God's offspring. The chosen one.

[Spirited Away]

Then how come Sik said Jesus is God?

I'm very, very, very confused........ and almost frustrated.

[Mireh]

Then how come Sik said Jesus is God?

I'm very, very, very confused........ and almost frustrated.

Jesus is not god.

Jesus is the Right hand of god.

[Spirited Away]

..... that's not what some other Christians are saying. You know what, forget I asked anything; it's too confusing .

[Mireh]

..... that's not what some other Christians are saying. You know what, forget I asked anything; it's too confusing .

eh. I don't know.

Thats what my church believes in.

[xnastyninjagrlx]

..... that's not what some other Christians are saying. You know what, forget I asked anything; it's too confusing .

YAh the trinity thing CAN be quite confusing cuz technically when Jesus was on earth he WAS the offspring of God cuz many verses like "For he so loved the world, that he gave his ONLY SON, for whomever shall believe in him will have everlasting life." AT the same time Jesus is SON of GOd and he is also GOd because he rose from the dead. What Mireh said was kinda true too about the "right hand of GOD" cuz God created Jesus in Mary's womb..and therefore Jesus is part of GOD...I know it's confusing..but that's why the trinity is all connected.

[Mini]

I don't think talking about God with Christians would make me believe in Him, after all I already do believe that a Creator exists. Now, my only qualm is the Christians' way of explaining God...

The Bible is written by men who claimed to have heard God's word and I refuse to believe in something written for the purpose of BELIEF. Why? Belief is very personal, not something to be publicized and force others to agree.

Fae, you're just like me! Anyways, I question God's followers and the Bible in which men wrote it.

[xnastyninjagrlx]

Fae, you're just like me! Anyways, I question God's followers and the Bible in which men wrote it.

Yah as I was telling FAE, we are the ones to be questioned..and not GOD..The bible was written by MEn..but it came from the WORD of GOD.

[Mini]

Yah as I was telling FAE, we are the ones to be questioned..and not GOD..The bible was written by MEn..but it came from the WORD of GOD.

But it isn't the exact words of God, so how do you know parts of it aren't His words? If God doesn't control man, how do we know the Bible is one hundred percent true?

[CrimsonArchangel]

Then how come Sik said Jesus is God?

Someone put it quite nicely before.

Think of God and Jesus as water. Ice, water and vapor are all water but there in different states (solid, gas and liquid). Think of God as the gas. He's there but you can't see him. Think of Jesus as the solid because he is the one that came down to earth and took a physicial form.

*Hope that helps*.

[raw_material]

But it isn't the exact words of God, so how do you know parts of it aren't His words? If God doesn't control man, how do we know the Bible is one hundred percent true?

god doesnt control men...we are the stupid ones that make dumb mistakes!
the bible is 100 percent true..if u read it( i dont kno if u do) then u would realize that half of the things that have been written in the bible have already happend or will happen...
in most bibles when the letters are red its bcuz it is god speaking( like u kno him)
the rest where by men who where inspired by god...and choose 2 follow god and trust on him..not bcuz they where force but bcuz they had the free will 2 go with gods path...

[sikdragon]

Jesus is God, but a different aspect of him. Let's say we look at your face. Your right side is significantly different than the other due to one thing. It is backwards. Just like each side of your face can have its own blemishes or you skin is dry there. It is the same face but a different part of it. The cells have their own pattern and act a different way.

JESUS IS GOD, the trinity is real. If you actually read the bible instead of searching for words you would see how it implies it throughout the whole new testament. and at one point i believe Jesus comes right out and says something to that extent.

[sikdragon]

I know somewhere someone tried to tell me the bible contradicted itself by taking things out of context. The bible wasnt written over night it was over hundreds of years and the governments and the cultures changed. Read it and dont just take excerpts, the new testaments just reaffirms and expands upon everything the old testaments said, and it was written by outcasts in a completely different language as the torah.

[Spirited Away]

This is even funnier...

When you were a child and read the Bible for the first time, did you understand exactly what it was saying, or must someone interpret it for you? Did YOU not look for answers from people who are more knowledgeable about the Bible? Or did you suddenly understand everything and put it all together yourself?

If that is the case, then why do we need Churches and Clergy and Sunday School teachers when everyone already automatically understand the Bible after reading it?

Boy, going to Church must be a waste of time for you.

And to Angel:

[ComradeRed]

I know somewhere someone tried to tell me the bible contradicted itself by taking things out of context. The bible wasnt written over night it was over hundreds of years and the governments and the cultures changed. Read it and dont just take excerpts, the new testaments just reaffirms and expands upon everything the old testaments said, and it was written by outcasts in a completely different language as the torah.

So you are really using YOUR interpretation of the Bible instead of actually reading the letter of the Bible ... because society and government changes?

When did God give you the authority to interpret his word? It seems that if God is all-powerful, he would write what he meant and vice versa. In Timothy, it says that you should take God's word at face value, and not try to add words or your own interpretation to them. It is rather presumptous of you to think that you can know what God's intentions are ... and isn't that a deadly sin?

[IIO__oII]

sikdragon-PLEASE DONT DOUBLE POST. USE THE EDIT BUTTON. thank you. :]

hm i wouldnt compare Jesus and God with your face... cause there are some people with 2 completely different sides... and Jesus and God arent comepletely different.
i guess CrimsonArchangel's example of water is a good way of seeing who Jesus and God is. THey are the same, but diffent in differnt ways...

god doesnt control men...we are the stupid ones that make dumb mistakes!
the bible is 100 percent true..if u read it( i dont kno if u do) then u would realize that half of the things that have been written in the bible have already happend or will happen...
in most bibles when the letters are red its bcuz it is god speaking( like u kno him)
the rest where by men who where inspired by god...and choose 2 follow god and trust on him..not bcuz they where force but bcuz they had the free will 2 go with gods path...

actually- the red lettering is where Jesus speaks. it's only in the new testament. hehe