Jesus, God's son. Options

[raw_material]

Well, I've stated many times in this forum before that I do not like the Bible. I believe the Bible and Church are middlemen. If the Christian God exists, there wouldn't be a need for the Church, nor the Bible to prove His existence. Why? Because He is Almighty...

And that's what I don't understand about the Christians point of view. Doesn't being Almighty means having control?


That's partly what a Deist believes.

being all mighty means he created the heavens and the earth...but hes a loving god...hes not gonna sapp us or throw thunders at us cuz we are sinners...we are not perfect....but even do we are not perfect he still loves us...the church is just a place where we the body of christ meets up 2 worship god and thank him for the blessings and things he has given us...we dont deserve nothing in this life...yet he loves us so much that he gives it 2 us... just like a hand...it needs its bones and muscle 2move withouth the bones the hand cant more.....liek the body of christ all the churches form the body of christ 2 serve him...even if we are baptist protestant or w/e...if we believe jesus is our savior...we all form the body of christ....3 is better than 1....imagine all these churches praying 4 the world

[sikdragon]

the bible doesnt contradict itself.

[Spirited Away]

Can u plz explain wut seems brutal and the contradicting parts?

And I don't think the Bible is only for the purpose of Belief. Yah you have to believe everything the Bible says as a Christian. But the Bible to us is a "guide to life" It is God's "little notes" he left for us on how to live our lives. Just like the Muslims have the Koran? ( I think..) But yah it's not juss a couple of men who wrote it from hearing God..disciples such as Mark, Matthew, Luke, John, Peter..actually DID see God as the scriptures mentions.

But then again..I know you probably think this is what I BELIEVE and it's just an Opinion..but I'm juss trying to help 

I know you're trying to help, but there have been many people who tried to do the same thing as well... and they just couldn't answer all of my questions... have you read the "god" II topic? I lasted for more than 70 pages in this debate. Why? Because I just don't get it.

A small part that seem brutal and contradicting is the belief of free will. We are given hope that the Gift of free will means to be able to think for ourselves. Yet, there is a limit put on free will where there are only two choices, namely Heaven and Hell. Because of these two choices, you cannot define free will as the freedom to choose without restraint, but you must define it within the limits of Heaven and Hell.

Why did God choose to have only a number of men write down His words? Why wasn't His words shared with everyone? He is Almighty, therefore it would be not be much of a problem at all for Him to let everyone know about Him.

If Mark, Matthew, Luke, and John... can see God, then why can't I see God? Why can't my Christian friends see God?

[xnastyninjagrlx]

Well, I've stated many times in this forum before that I do not like the Bible. I believe the Bible and Church are middlemen. If the Christian God exists, there wouldn't be a need for the Church, nor the Bible to prove His existence. Why? Because He is Almighty...

And that's what I don't understand about the Christians point of view. Doesn't being Almighty means having control?


That's partly what a Deist believes.

You know I understand your point of view. If God is Almighty why doesn't he just *poof* come down and declare he is Lord. I think God is Almighty but not in the sense that he has control (which is does if you mean like he can make fire fall down from the skies) but he is not control has in power-hungry. The Bible as I said before is a doctrine of his life on earth and how we should live our lives as humans.
And you are right about not having to prove his existence, cuz he doesn't. He wants you to believe because you WANT to believe. Christians simply help plant the seed.

[sikdragon]

READ AND FIND OUT!!!!! quit relying on mere mortals to explain it to you.

[raw_material]

back the only pple that saw jesus was when he was around for 32 years....after he ressurected 2 heaven no1 saw him.....just like god use 2 talk 2 pple thru his voice and the light....now a days things are diff...god talks 2 us thru his word the bible...and thru teachings are church...and we talk back 2 him thru prayer

joshua chapter 1 verse 8: do not let this book of the law depart from your mouth;meditate on it day and night, so that you may be carefull to do everything written in it..then you will be prosperous and succesfull

[sikdragon]

that is so true.

[raw_material]

You know I understand your point of view. If God is Almighty why doesn't he just *poof* come down and declare he is Lord. I think God is Almighty but not in the sense that he has control (which is does if you mean like he can make fire fall down from the skies) but he is not control has in power-hungry. The Bible as I said before is a doctrine of his life on earth and how we should live our lives as humans.
And you are right about not having to prove his existence, cuz he doesn't. He wants you to believe because you WANT to believe. Christians simply help plant the seed.

oh GOD is coming back...its just not time yet....no one knows when the right time is....we jsut have 2 wait till some events occurr in the bible...for example the mark of the beast....god will come back and take all those believers with him....hes not gonna come out *poof* ok lets go guys w/e nope...its called B.I.B.L.E Basic Instructions Before leaving Earth....im sure reading it wont kill some1

[Spirited Away]

READ AND FIND OUT!!!!! quit relying on mere mortals to explain it to you.

Hmm, I have a cousin who's a nun, I think I've heard enough Bible talk to last me a while... and actually, I think these mere mortals are doing a pretty good job of explaining.. I rather hear the answer from a real person, then read a book that I think is fiction.

You know I understand your point of view. If God is Almighty why doesn't he just *poof* come down and declare he is Lord. I think God is Almighty but not in the sense that he has control (which is does if you mean like he can make fire fall down from the skies) but he is not control has in power-hungry. The Bible as I said before is a doctrine of his life on earth and how we should live our lives as humans.
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If He lacks control, does that not make Him not omnipotent?....

And you are right about not having to prove his existence, cuz he doesn't. He wants you to believe because you WANT to believe. Christians simply help plant the seed.

Now here's the rub. I've been told in the previous God topic and by Sik that when I know of God but do not believe in Him, then that would be disobedience and unremorseful... which will condemn me to Hell.

But if Christians were to remain silent about the existence of God, then I would remain ignorant of His existence, and I will be just another person who's trying to live her life the best she could. But because Christians must spread the word about God, I've been forced to know and therefore forced to go to Hell... isn't that how it works?

its called B.I.B.L.E Basic Instructions Before leaving Earth

That's actually kind of cute.

[raw_material]

Hmm, I have a cousin who's a nun, I think I've heard enough Bible talk to last me a while...



If He lacks control, does that not make Him not omnipotent?....



Now here's the rub. I've been told in the previous God topic and by Sik that when I know of God but do not believe in Him, then that would be disobedience and unremorseful... which will condemn me to Hell.

But if Christians were to remain silent about the existence of God, then I would remain ignorant of His existence, and I will be just another person who's trying to live her life the best she could. But because Christians must spread the word about God, I've been forced to know and therefore forced to go to Hell... isn't that how it works?


That's actually kind of cute.

That's actually kind of cute.
i dont kno if u said that sarcasticly or u thought it was real cute 4 real but w/e lol

[sikdragon]

he lacks control because he chooses to. and its not bible talk read it, it is really an interesting book. did you know jonah was so reluctant to preach in ninevah that he fled on boat. then there was a storm and he was thrown off the boat because he was believed to have caused the wrath of God to befall them. He was then swallowed by a whale and lived there for a few days. it's awesome.

[Spirited Away]

i dont kno if u said that sarcasticly or u thought it was real cute 4 real but w/e lol

No, no, I was being serious.

he lacks control because he chooses to. and its not bible talk read it, it is really an interesting book. did you know jonah was so reluctant to preach in ninevah that he fled on boat. then there was a storm and he was thrown off the boat because he was believed to have caused the wrath of God to befall them. He was then swallowed by a whale and lived there for a few days. it's awesome.

My friends who feared for my eternal soul actually gave me some stories to read. Plus, I work at the YMCA and attend a couple Bible study sessions with a bunch of kids... So, yea, I know some stories and what they have to say... I know, they are kind of awesome to read.

He lacks control because he chooses to, but then he condemns non-believers for something that He chose to do... meaning, He chose to remain a mystery to non-believers, but forsaken them when they die simply because of His own choosing... that's brutal.

[raw_material]

romans chapter 1 verse21-23
ever since the creation of the world his eternal power and divine nature,..21.for though they knew god they did not honor him as a god or give thanks to him but they became futile in their thinking and there senseless minds where darken. 22. claiming to be wise they became fools 23..and they exchaged the glory of the immortal god for images resembling a mortal human being or birds or four footed animals and reptiles

[Spirited Away]

Well, I don't claim to be wise, nor do I claim any immortal gods but one Creator... I don't know how that would apply to me, other agnostics, and atheists who just want to live life instead of worrying over what happens after death.

[raw_material]

Well, I don't claim to be wise, nor do I claim any immortal gods but one Creator... I don't know how that would apply to me, other agnostics, and atheists who just want to live life instead of worrying over what happens after death.

nope i wasnt applying it 2 u..i just wanted 2 post 4 every1...i didnt quote u so it wasnt 2 u.. like i said god says the gospell will b heared by every1 atleast once....if they choose not 2 accept....dont say god doesnt reach 2 no1...w/e happens god still loves u

[Spirited Away]

I don't think I'm speaking for myself in that comment, because I know for a fact that many agnostics and atheists feel the same way.

[raw_material]

I don't think I'm speaking for myself in that comment, because I know for a fact that many agnostics and atheists feel the same way.

alrighty then!!

[Spirited Away]

alrighty then!!

I don't mean to oppose anything you've said, but religion talk just make me feel... wary.

[raw_material]

I don't mean to oppose anything you've said, but religion talk just make me feel... wary.

thanks 4 tha flower lol

yea religion is just a category name...that makes this holet thing more complicated and stuff...it gets ummm frustrating lol but w/e im just trying 2 make my points from my point of view !

[xnastyninjagrlx]

If He lacks control, does that not make Him not omnipotent?....

sorrie..i don't think i was very clear on that..he is of course Almighty and



Now here's the rub. I've been told in the previous God topic and by Sik that when I know of God but do not believe in Him, then that would be disobedience and unremorseful... which will condemn me to Hell.


But if Christians were to remain silent about the existence of God, then I would remain ignorant of His existence, and I will be just another person who's trying to live her life the best she could. But because Christians must spread the word about God, I've been forced to know and therefore forced to go to Hell... isn't that how it works?

sorrie..i don't think i was very clear on that..he is of course Almighty and omnipotent, but having the Bible and churches does not prove his is not. Churches is just a place for God's people..to come and worship and fellowship with our Lord.




Yah because knowing is not enuff..most ppl know about God but have not really have a relationship with him.


Well, I'm not trying to force anyone to know. IT's your choice if you wanna hear it or not. But I can see that your consideration is Heaven and Hell. I think someone ppl think that believing in God is just a "safe fire hydrgon"...like ppl want to believe in Him because believing him Him will get them to Heaven. First we need to believe that He is Our Savior, the one who sacraficed himself. Knowing this, should motivate our love for Him because He loved us first. We should accept that we are sinful and that we need him for salvation..then in turn we try to live a righteous life and hopefully be able to enter the gates of heaven.

*sorry if i confused u*

[Spirited Away]

sorrie..i don't think i was very clear on that..he is of course Almighty and omnipotent, but having the Bible and churches does not prove his is not. Churches is just a place for God's people..to come and worship and fellowship with our Lord.

I didn't say that having the Bible and Church would disprove God, but I did say that the two makes His power questionable... as in, why have the Bible at all if He exists in all of us? Wouldn't He lead us to right and wrong? The Bible is what you make of it because there can be many interpretations of it.

The Church is just worst in my eyes... nowdays we can safely say that churces are for the congregation of God's followers, but the Church has done too many misdeeds in the past to be overlooked.

Well, I'm not trying to force anyone to know. IT's your choice if you wanna hear it or not. But I can see that your consideration is Heaven and Hell. I think someone ppl think that believing in God is just a "safe fire hydrgon"...like ppl want to believe in Him because believing him Him will get them to Heaven. First we need to believe that He is Our Savior, the one who sacraficed himself. Knowing this, should motivate our love for Him because He loved us first. We should accept that we are sinful and that we need him for salvation..then in turn we try to live a righteous life and hopefully be able to enter the gates of heaven.

Hmm, I'm not saying you specifically... I'm generalizing that because Christians spread the word of God, you guys have put us non-Christians and non-believers in quite a predicament: to believe and go to Heaven, or disbelieve and go to Hell. Before this, we just wanted to live a normal life with our conscience guiding our morals.

[xnastyninjagrlx]

Hmm, I'm not saying you specifically... I'm generalizing that because Christians spread the word of God, you guys have put us non-Christians and non-believers in quite a predicament: to believe and go to Heaven, or disbelieve and go to Hell. Before this, we just wanted to live a normal life with our conscience guiding our morals.

Yah I can see that you want to live a normal life by what you believe. But God does not think it's good enough. "A man who lives life with what he knows is foolish, but a man who hungers for knowledge is wise." [not exactly quoted] He wants to be part of your life because He loves you more than you can imagine. In the scriptures it said "he is standing at the door to your heart knocking..all you need to do it open it and let him in." He just wants to be part of your lives. He does not wish for you to live your life without a purpose and thinking that THAT's how good life is gonna get. He has so much to offer you and would not want you to go to Hell just because you dont' believe in Him.

[xnastyninjagrlx]

By the way..how do you quote more than one thing? I'm still new to this..thanks

[Spirited Away]

Yah I can see that you want to live a normal life by what you believe. But God does not think it's good enough. "A man who lives life with what he knows is foolish, but a man who hungers for knowledge is wise." [not exactly quoted] He wants to be part of your life because He loves you more than you can imagine. In the scriptures it said "he is standing at the door to your heart knocking..all you need to do it open it and let him in." He just wants to be part of your lives. He does not wish for you to live your life without a purpose and thinking that THAT's how good life is gonna get. He has so much to offer you and would not want you to go to Hell just because you dont' believe in Him.

I hunger for knowledge to improve my life, not knowledge to complicate it further. Religion complicates life because without it, there wouldn't be a need for worship or too many questions unanswered about the rightness/wrongness of it.

Believing that He exist is one thing, but worshiping the belief that He exists is another.

"Every person, of whatever religious denomination he may be, is a DEIST in the first article of his Creed. Deism, from the Latin word Deus, God, is the belief of a God, and this belief is the first article of every man's creed.
It is on this article, universally consented to by all mankind, that the Deist builds his church, and here he rests. Whenever we step aside from this article, by mixing it with articles of human invention, we wander into a labyrinth of uncertainty and fable, and become exposed to every kind of imposition by pretenders to revelation." -- Thomas Paine

Edit>>> to quote more than one person/thing, just copy and paste what they've said and then click "quote" button (under your font/size/color menus)

[xnastyninjagrlx]

I hunger for knowledge to improve my life, not knowledge to complicate it further. Religion complicates life because without it, there wouldn't be a need for worship or too many questions unanswered about the rightness/wrongness of it.

Believing that He exist is one thing, but worshiping the belief that He exists is another.

"Every person, of whatever religious denomination he may be, is a DEIST in the first article of his Creed. Deism, from the Latin word Deus, God, is the belief of a God, and this belief is the first article of every man's creed.
It is on this article, universally consented to by all mankind, that the Deist builds his church, and here he rests. Whenever we step aside from this article, by mixing it with articles of human invention, we wander into a labyrinth of uncertainty and fable, and become exposed to every kind of imposition by pretenders to revelation." -- Thomas Paine

Edit>>> to quote more than one person/thing, just copy and paste what they've said and then click "quote" button (under your font/size/color menus)

Yah, it's really hard to prove if any religion is right or wrong. Everyone can go on and go about the topic of religion because everyone has their own opinioins. To me, religion (at least Christianity) doesn't seem to complicate my life in a bad way. Worship is just the way how we express our love and joy for being saved from sins. You worship cuz u are motivated to worship you think someone is worthy of worshipping. Actually I think worship is just a great way to connect with God and our fellow brothers and sisters cuz we are all singing together, honoring one God.

Also, Christians worship today for one main reason: he resurrected. So worshipping is kinda the belief that he exist. People back then worship because there is something joyous to worship about. Today we worship that our Lord has resurrected from the dead and has conquered Satan. If Jesus never died for our sins and resurrected..we would not have salvation and a relationship with him. His death bridge our gap together.

By the way that's an interesting quote by Paine..do you konw if he is Deist?