illegal immigrants, should something be done? Options

[NinjaxMageLayout...]

Ok i see.Maybe i am unclear but i rest my case.But you have to agree with me at some point,i mean im not saying legals are lazy.BUT most of them complain that illegals take jobs away from them when they could just like go and get hired for the job than just sit back you know?I rest my case.Wow now this made me want to join the debate team when i go to high school >.<.

But yeah sorry i didnt quite notice you were using it as your defense against my statement.I just thought you were rambling on about your familys hard work.

[Spirited Away]

Ok i see.Maybe i am unclear but i rest my case.But you have to agree with me at some point,i mean im not saying legals are lazy.BUT most of them complain that illegals take jobs away from them when they could just like go and get hired for the job than just sit back you know?I rest my case.Wow now this made me want to join the debate team when i go to high school >.<.

But yeah sorry i didnt quite notice you were using it as your defense against my statement.I just thought you were rambling on about your familys hard work.

The only reason why I was upset was because I thought you were seriously thinking that legal immigrants are lazy and don't work as hard as illegal immigrants. I've actually heard that line of argument of the radio and I was pissed that I couldn't have called in and say something like I did with you because they were "out of time".

Anyway, if that wasn't your intention, sorry for all the "f**k you's".

and usually, that's thier only crime.

personally, i like the current status quo.

Well, yea Mr. Acid, but that's also the irony of it all. Haha.

As for the status quo... I guess.

[NinjaxMageLayout...]

^___^ yeah it wasnt my intention.You should go out for the debate team too Spiritual,It will be funny if one day i had to debate against you in schools.Haha it would be a non stop battle.

[Spirited Away]

Er, haha...

That would be interesting... in so many ways.



*uncomfortable silence ensues because Fae realizes she probably got that response because she was acting so immature, and trying to justify it with he-started-it doesn't help... at all*

[demolished]

What's the difference? A piece of paper.

We should abolish welfare. That way, only hard working immigrants that help the economy will enter the country. All the parasites will have no reason to enter our country. Best solution there.

Not uh. My family of seven really needs the welfare. Yes, my mom is completely an illiterate due to poverty from certain part of China. therefore, she stays at home to watch the family. My dad was the only one who worked for the family. Do you think he had enough paid as a foreigner who doesn’t speak English very well? My parents are really hard workers and supporters. My parents made a wise choice to find a house with a big yard to plant vegetables raise chickens, and little fruits.

what indirect infomation are reveals about my background?

[NinjaxMageLayout...]

Er, haha...

That would be interesting... in so many ways.
*uncomfortable silence ensues because Fae realizes she probably got that response because she was acting so immature, and trying to justify it with he-started-it doesn't help... at all*

Yeah ^___^ -sweat drop-

QUOTE(ComradeRed @ Jun 23 2004, 8:52 AM)

What's the difference? A piece of paper.

We should abolish welfare. That way, only hard working immigrants that help the economy will enter the country. All the parasites will have no reason to enter our country. Best solution there.

I dont think they should remove welfare because some people need it because some jobs require education to be hired and some may not have went to school or have any educational experience at all and also like Spiritual Winged Aura said,some may not speak english well either.

[The Nocturnal Ph...]

Someone beat me to this topic... BAH!
I had to write some paper on this issue for government class. I'll post it here. I hope it doesn't offend anyone or anything like that. I've covered most of what was talked about in this topic... The teacher assigned us sides, & i recieved the side that is against H.R. 4437.

Allan Santos
Participation In Government - Green
April 30th, 2006
Immigration Paper - 1st Draft
Title: A New Form Of Racism

People immigrate for many reasons. Economic reasons, political

reasons, and personal reasons. The countries that these people migrate to

now have more responsibility, since they must care for the welfare and being

of their natives, as well as the immigrants. However, What happens if these

immigrants migrate, and they get no welfare in the country they immigrate

to? And the country treats them as a threat? The country proposes a law that

is supposed to be made to "protect the welfare of natives" by exposing this

threat of immigrants/possible terrorists. The example I am trying to give is

H.R. 4437, "The Border Protection, Antiterrorism, and Illegal Immigration"

Act posed in 2006. This act proposes that a 700-mile fence around the border

of United States-Mexico, requires the federal government to take custody of

illegal aliens detained by local authorities, makes employers verify whether

their employee is an illegal alien or not, eliminates the "immigrant lottery"

and more. In other words, controls and destroys the lives of all immigrants in

the United States. This is mainly a law to prohibit the lives of mexican

immigrants. Especially since the Canadian border isn't being focused on.

There are many ways to mend this act of mainly racial influences, fix it so

that both sides are somewhat satisfied.



There are three ways to get a green card in the United States. A green

card is an identification document that allows the immigrant to become a

permanent citizen of the United States with some of the rights citizens

enjoy, like not being deported. The three ways to obtain a green card are

marriage to a U.S. citizen, getting sponsored by an employee, or winning the

diversity visa lottery (or the Immigrant Lottery). They aren't the simplest of

ways, since they all have their flaws. Marriage to a U.S. citizen must be

"true" and there are specified specialists that check up on the couple that is

married, to make sure that it isn't just a free ride for the immigrant. Nice,

right? There are three ways to get an employer to sponsor you. The Labor

Certification Application, The Immigrant Petition, and the Adjustment of

Status. Winning the diversity visa loterry is definitely the easiest way to get a

green card, but it all relies on chance & luck. 50,000 green cards are given to

random immigrants chosen by a computer program. However, over 8,000,000

immigrants apply for those 50,000 spots. And if HR 4437 is passed, this

method will be passing along with it.



H.R. 4437 is a very one-sided law, with almost no way for the mexican

immigrants to be satisfied. Though it seems as though it may only affect

them, it affects almost everyone in the country. There are more than 11

million immigrants in the United States, many of them pay taxes, many of

them work, but they all live in the country. HR 4437 can be determined as an

undertone racial act, as it should be, but for some reason it is actually under

consideration. This act is made because "immigrants pose a threat" as if each

immigrant was a terrorist. When was the last time you saw on the news that

there was a mexican bomber/serial killer? This law will create a decline in

the economy of the U.S.



The economy of the United States relies greatly on immigrants,

believe it or not. Immigrants have to consume, just like you and I, no matter

what George W. Bush may say. By doing so, they have to spend money on

products, and they also pay taxes. After All, this country was built around

immigrants. Everyone is an immigrant, no matter what George W. Bush may

say. Only the native-americans are native americans. Immigrants helped build

the country. For example, many african-american slaves in the United States

built transportation and houses in earlier ages. The history of immigrants in

the United States goes way back, before it was even named the United

States.



In conclusion, this law is nothing but a favorable act for those that are

opposed to immigration. Common excuses for this law are Terrorism,

destruction of the American Economy, immigrants stealing jobs from native

citizens and increasing the consumption of resources. None of these are

proven. A law that would be good for both sides of this immigration debate

would be a law I call HR Shuttupracists, where the borders are closed, and

the immigrants in the country recieve their green cards over a period of

time. Then, after this, if other immigrants from other countries (specifically

canada and mexico) want to become citizens, they have to be analyzed and

processed while outside of the country. This should prevent the threat of

terrorism, right?

[lollypop036]

well heres what my mum thinks lolll http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Plw37PbxLBE
personally i think illegal immigrants have gone too far to be stopped, theres nothin much the government or whoever can do now...unless you just stop people comin into the country lol

[timeflies51]

What makes one person more special than another? What makes a person immigrating from Mexico different from someone immigrating from, say, Russia?

Every person who wants to live in America should have the equal obligation to go through the process legally. They'd be able to stop worrying about being caught anyways.

[kimmytree]

Gahhhh. I have no problem with people wanting to come to American legally. But seriously, anyone who is here illegally needs to be shipped home.

I live in central Florida, and its gotten pretty bad over the years. Especially in the area I live in, there are alot of Illegal immigrants from Mexico. They live in the worst conditions imaginable, and usually work at construction sites or with produce... all to send what they can back to Mexico. They arent contributing to society, like legal residents are. They arent paying any taxes. And they dont even have drivers licenses or car insurance. So guess what? If you get in a wreck with one, and its their fault, your screwed.

I feel like the government needs to crack down and catch the ones who are here illegally, and send them home. Then they can come back through and come in legally, like they should have done to begin with. Giving them amnesty would just be rewarding them, and would be like a slap in the face for people who actually came here legally.

[Laughsalot]

illegal immigrants, should somthing be done?

you mean the mexicans?

[Doona]

I dont mind. but I think they should have to pay tax like the rest of us in the us.

I dont mind. but I think they should have to pay tax like the rest of us in the us.

[twinkles6801]

I beleive this more than ever!
I live in a poverty neighborhood. Like right now, i am connected to a wireless internet connection and i dont even know how its connected, but its the only way i can go online. I cant afford anything because the money is all going to people from overseas, and when they come here, they are not having to pay taxes, and thats not fair!

[brandewijn]

They shouldn't do anything about it.

[beambitious]

I think they should do something serious about it-maybe start having more severe consequences like jail time and THEN send them back where they came from. They're taking jobs away from the legal immigrants, even though they sometimes are doing the jobs that no one else wants to do. When you think about the issue, it sounds simple. ILLEGAL immigrants- BREAKING THE LAW. My dad was an immigrant from Austrailia, and he did all of the paper work etc.. to become a LEGAL immigrant. Now why should people have the right to a loophole in the system?

[Mulder]

listen, you shouldn't make comments about if if you're not there.

only people living in texas or california really understand illegal immigration. 20 hispanic students at my school didn't show up to go to a protest parade, even though the principal had sent a letter saying that students at the parade could be suspended. I've had to leave rooms because illegal immigration debates start up.
But the societies are so mixed, that its very hard to draw the line. People are expanding this illegal immigration issue to go against immigration as a whole. Please understand that it is impossible to weed out every illegal immigrant. My piano teacher, who just had a performance, snuck in texas at 15. One of my friends' mother is an illegal immigrant. Where do you draw the line?

[beambitious]

listen, you shouldn't make comments about if if you're not there.

only people living in texas or california really understand illegal immigration. 20 hispanic students at my school didn't show up to go to a protest parade, even though the principal had sent a letter saying that students at the parade could be suspended. I've had to leave rooms because illegal immigration debates start up.
But the societies are so mixed, that its very hard to draw the line. People are expanding this illegal immigration issue to go against immigration as a whole. Please understand that it is impossible to weed out every illegal immigrant. My piano teacher, who just had a performance, snuck in texas at 15. One of my friends' mother is an illegal immigrant. Where do you draw the line?

I understand your point of view - but why don't they want to become legal immigrants? Like your piano teacher, does she have that hanging over her head? They could have more and better opportunities to perhaps get better jobs or further their studies if they want.

[*a painefull euphoria*]

I understand your point of view - but why don't they want to become legal immigrants? Like your piano teacher, does she have that hanging over her head? They could have more and better opportunities to perhaps get better jobs or further their studies if they want.

the reason they dont bother trying to aply for citizenship legaly is beacuse a good majority of them are extreamly desprate to leave to contry that they dont have the time to wait the log process.

you have to learn the us constitution,and then take the written exam.then theres the one where you have to recite pledge in english and then there is a waiting process. and then if you fail the written exam you have to wait a 6 month waiting period to try again.its all very time consuming. i mean would you like to go through all that especialy if you have childeren at home to feed?

and yes i do know what im talking about as both a us immigrant an ex-patriot.[i moved out of the us into the UK for school]

and also as proud latino i do not condone illegal immigration. so before anyone bashes me i dont support it i just am clairifying the procedure to apply for citizenship

[kimmytree]

listen, you shouldn't make comments about if if you're not there.

only people living in texas or california really understand illegal immigration. 20 hispanic students at my school didn't show up to go to a protest parade, even though the principal had sent a letter saying that students at the parade could be suspended. I've had to leave rooms because illegal immigration debates start up.
But the societies are so mixed, that its very hard to draw the line. People are expanding this illegal immigration issue to go against immigration as a whole. Please understand that it is impossible to weed out every illegal immigrant. My piano teacher, who just had a performance, snuck in texas at 15. One of my friends' mother is an illegal immigrant. Where do you draw the line?

California and Texas arent the only states that are bad - Florida is pretty bad too. Its gotten to the point where me and my family cant even shop at our local Walmart. Whenever I have been in there, the store is always packed... and at least 80% of the people that are shopping are hispanics. The legal ones dont bother me at all... but around here, a majority of them are illegal. In my part of the state, there are alot of produce fields, mostly strawberries and oranges... so alot of them are here doing that. But over the past few years, they're slowly starting to take jobs away from LEGAL Americans... stuff like industrial packing, roofing, construction, ect, because they'll take less pay, something that a legal American cant live on.



Plus, there are areas all over the country with alot of them. Do you know anything about why your mother's friend or your piano teacher came here illegally? Just curious.

the reason they dont bother trying to aply for citizenship legaly is beacuse a good majority of them are extreamly desprate to leave to contry that they dont have the time to wait the log process.

you have to learn the us constitution,and then take the written exam.then theres the one where you have to recite pledge in english and then there is a waiting process. and then if you fail the written exam you have to wait a 6 month waiting period to try again.its all very time consuming. i mean would you like to go through all that especialy if you have childeren at home to feed?

and yes i do know what im talking about as both a us immigrant an ex-patriot.[i moved out of the us into the UK for school]

and also as proud latino i do not condone illegal immigration. so before anyone bashes me i dont support it i just am clairifying the procedure to apply for citizenship

How do they not have time? As far as the ones from Mexico - you cant tell me they CANT get a job at home. I'm sorry, but they're coming here illegally, they're freeloading off us, and our dollar. I respect legal ones just like I would any other person born here, no matter what their nationality. It just pisses me off that they're stealing my parents hard earned money, and everyone elses. Their kids get thrown in our public schools, half the time not knowing ANY English... which usually ends up just being day care. They have no medical insurance, so they end up going to the emergency room just over a runny nose... which results in higher costs for everyone. They drive without licenses and car insurance... so your pretty much screwed in the state of Florida if you get in a wreck with one.

[clarity]

4) thank you to whoever made the english comment...we shouldnt HAVE to adopt a second and third language just because you're too freakin lazy to learn the NATIVE LANGUAGE OF THE NATION

It's not they're "too freakin lazy" it's because its difficult.
Why don't you try and go to a country where you don't know the language and don't tell me your "too freakin lazy" to do it, cause you know its difficult.
And don't give me "but thats never gonna happen."
I mean seriously, I bet you took/take a language at school and I bet when you first started to learn it was difficult. Even if you learned it as you grew up, think about it if you hadn't a clue what anything meant you know it would be difficult.

anyways...

I don't have any problems with Illegal Immigrants. Actually, to tell you the truth, I myself have a couple of friends who are Illegal but I'm not about to rat them out. Most Illegal Immigrants are "Illegal" because they probably needed to leave their native country because of danger, the government system, or the biggest one.. they come for freedom. I've noticed most American's [I'm not American, I was adopted] don't believe the famous saying "America is Free". Freedom isn't just being able to do what ever you f**king want and not getting in trouble. Comparison, in America we can write about who ever and whatever we want to in the press. Freedom of the press. In some country's you could be killed for writing something without permission. In America we get to be a part of any religion we want to be and f**k guess what? We can even create our own religion if we want to. In some country's you cant, and in some country's if you don't fallow a certain religion you could be killed. Yeah, America has laws but that's for our own safety of the people. But any who back to my point, some Illegal Immigrants have to escape their crucial country's just to get that freedom that they don't have.

Another opinion, I don't care if they take jobs from "legal" residents, because shit everyone deserves a chance to live a better life.

That's all I have to say, you can effing disagree if you want I'm just putting my own damn opinion out.

[*a painefull euphoria*]

How do they not have time? As far as the ones from Mexico - you cant tell me they CANT get a job at home. I'm sorry, but they're coming here illegally, they're freeloading off us, and our dollar. I respect legal ones just like I would any other person born here, no matter what their nationality. It just pisses me off that they're stealing my parents hard earned money, and everyone elses. Their kids get thrown in our public schools, half the time not knowing ANY English... which usually ends up just being day care. They have no medical insurance, so they end up going to the emergency room just over a runny nose... which results in higher costs for everyone. They drive without licenses and car insurance... so your pretty much screwed in the state of Florida if you get in a wreck with one.

my father is in mexico as a expatriot
and he cant get a job there
and hes legal there and he was born there .
there system of hiring is different than us apparently
and even when i went to try and work in culinary arts i couldent get a job and i have a C.E.C degree. and thats one of there biggest trades there is tourism&hospitality.
So no offence but unless youve been there you cant actualy say that.

[kimmytree]

my father is in mexico as a expatriot
and he cant get a job there
and hes legal there and he was born there .
there system of hiring is different than us apparently
and even when i went to try and work in culinary arts i couldent get a job and i have a C.E.C degree. and thats one of there biggest trades there is tourism&hospitality.
So no offence but unless youve been there you cant actualy say that.

Sorry if I offended you in any way - I apologize. But like I said before, legal ones are just as much Americans as anyone who was born here. I was reffering to illegal ones.

[*a painefull euphoria*]

that fine im just saying that in times of great desperation.people will do almost about anything.the problem is that too many people are making irrational decisions and its causing a issue in america

[viugiufgjhfhjfhg...]

Something I'd like to see more often in Immigration debates is an analysis on the role the companies that hire Illegal Immigrants play in this problem. This seems to be often ignored, however, a stronger legal pressure on such companies forcing them to hire Americans/legal immigrants would certainly halt some the influx of illegal workers; as well as it would raise the quality of the so called "low-end" jobs.

Another possibility entirely compatible with the one mentioned above could be modifying the current working VISA program. Maybe making working VISAs a bit more available and extending their length to a limited number of years could help reducing the number of illegal aliens that go abroad to find a better paid job but that plan on coming back to their country.

The best way to face the immigration problem seems to work on a solution for each variable of the problem rather than pushing for a universal panacea.

[iROCKYOURSOCKS]

How do they not have time? As far as the ones from Mexico - you cant tell me they CANT get a job at home. I'm sorry, but they're coming here illegally, they're freeloading off us, and our dollar. I respect legal ones just like I would any other person born here, no matter what their nationality. It just pisses me off that they're stealing my parents hard earned money, and everyone elses. Their kids get thrown in our public schools, half the time not knowing ANY English... which usually ends up just being day care. They have no medical insurance, so they end up going to the emergency room just over a runny nose... which results in higher costs for everyone. They drive without licenses and car insurance... so your pretty much screwed in the state of Florida if you get in a wreck with one.

. hmm funny thing that people are so upset about having their "jobs" being taken away. I dont see anyone running out to the vegetable and fruit fields picking stuff as their life depended on it and asking for even lower amounts of money just to take the jobs away from immigrants. I only see asian and latino immigrants working their butts off to survive. the people who are "offended" are sitting on their bottoms holding picket signs against immigrants during a nice weather and when its to cold or to hot HEAVEN FORBID that they have to come out in such horrible weather so they just wait for another day to protest. well its kinda hard when most of the jobs require you to work in hot and cold condisions. I dont see why people are complaining i really dont see immigrants working in luxurious offices, they work where they are being payed less and work for more than 8 hours a day. Face the truth even if people were able to take the immigrants jobs away they still wont do it! i doubt they want to work in the kind of weather that the immigrants work.

Buddy you have no idea of what its like in Mexico, do you actually think that if their were jobs over there people would come here? where they are treated like shit? and have people bashing them for not speaking english? These people DIE coming here did you ever find that out? Do you think its easy crossing a desert for a long time with only one gallon of water and a couple pieces of bread and leaving their loved ones just to come here?

face it this is a every man or woman to themselves no matter what we are we want to survive and these people are desperate to do anything to get money, but not to buy the new "jordans" or "ipod" they want to buy FOOD, what we Americans take for granted when we throw away tons of food.

Im legal and im thankful to them that they are doing the jobs that i frankly dont want to do i prefer not to spend everyday working in hard weather conditions and getting some shitty amount of money. and they are not taking our dollar they are getting payed less than the minimum of what legal residents get. And most teenagers now drive without their license and insurance so we are pretty screwed no matter who drives.

i think you need to see a country with poverty to get an idea why these immigrants are so desperate to get a job here. Frankly i dont know how they are taking our money, im sitting here comfortable typing on my computer with my heater on and listening to my MP3.

just to make this clear not all legal immigrants are holding picket signs they are just as hard working as anyone.