god, part 2 Options

[sadolakced acid]

goodness, people. you'll never prove anything "universally true" because everyone's beliefs are so different. so just deal with it and get on with your lives. why must we continue arguing in this thread? clearly, it isn't getting anywhere because everyone is too stubborn to change his/her beliefs.

oh, because it's fun prove people are wrong. this thread is a very nice stressbuster.

[racoons > you]

^^

thats exactly what i thought.

if christians are so open to loving others, despite their beliefs, then shut up and let us get on with not believing, burning in hell etc

conversely, if you dont believe in god, why do you feel the need to belittle those who do. while its true that wars are fought in the name of religon, for many people it is life enriching, fulfilling, and helps them to bond with people.

just leave them alone, hold your head high, and know you know whats REALLY going on

no on eis going to be converted, or swayed by this thread, as hard facts cannot be presented. no one can categorically prove one way or the other whether or not god exists, so why bother? this debate is essentially pointlessm, as no real conclusion can be drawn

[sadolakced acid]

grrr... i want to have pie.

[racoons > you]

me too. lets go for pie?

[Spirited Away]

Can I have some?

8.Religion does not cause war, people cause war. it's the human condition.

And if it is the human condition to go to war for the sake of belief?

9.there are no degrees of good and evil. there is good and there is contaminated. one teaspoon of yeast causes the entire loaf to rise.

Yet there are still exceptions. One drop of oil will not mix with water and one rotten egg in a basket will not ruin all of them.

10.if you dont believe in God then how can you debate his existence?

Then if Christians do not believe that Atheists and Agnostics are right, then how can Christians debate the "wrongness" of their belief?

goodness, people. you'll never prove anything "universally true" because everyone's beliefs are so different.

So someone will argue against the existence of Nature?

so just deal with it and get on with your lives. why must we continue arguing in this thread? clearly, it isn't getting anywhere because everyone is too stubborn to change his/her beliefs.

I have to agree with Mr. Acid and MarchHare2UrAlice.

[sammi rules you]

i want pie!! apple pie with vanilla ice cream on top! pleeeease! let the young one come.

why is there a reason to debate anything? those who debate are stubborn in their beliefs and are not likely to change them, that's WHY they debate, to present their opinions and try to prove them.

and to sikdragon..how are nonbelievers not allowed to debate on his existence? if we didn't, there would be no debate. there would be no opposing sides. i don't understand how you could say that at all.

[*mzkandi*]

i believe in MY God...there is no one who can ever debate against me otherwise but it IS interesting to get other peoples view on the matter

[OriskybusinessO]

3.george carlin gave up before he tried.

what are you suggesting about my georgie...

[innovation]

grrr...  i want to have pie.

we had pie in math class on pi day.

and i agree with sammi.

[sammi rules you]

^ hah! pie on pi day! that's cute.

[dahalfkoreanstyl]

think of God's trinity like this (there is no good way to explain it, you just have to believe, but its the best example i know of)

God the father, son, and holy spirit

The Sun is like God, the heat from the sun is like the holy spirit, and the sun light is like Jesus

they're all the same but yet different

Jesus was 100% human but yet 100% God, trinity w/ a bellybutton

[racoons > you]

lol... well we all universally aknowledge the power of pie as a bonding agent. thats a start.

bet god likes pie

why is there a reason to debate anything? those who debate are stubborn in their beliefs and are not likely to change them, that's WHY they debate, to present their opinions and try to prove them.

this debate s exceptional, because there arent solid facts one way or the otehr about god. in anyother debate, such as, say abortion, the presentation of facts and figures could caue someone to see the othersides case, and therefore change how they feel on the matter.

[Spirited Away]

Actually, even though factual evidence makes things clearer, I'm not one to take only facts into consideration when I judge something. Logic can convince me as well.

In debates like these, the unfortunate thing is logic, senses, and even reality is obscured by belief, or rather, the perception that belief and faith make things 'true'.

[racoons > you]

but surely logic itself is based in fact...

um... he was 25 miles away at the time, so logcally, he cant have committed the crime

[Spirited Away]

Not necessarily. I did say "in debates like these", that should have narrowed down the kinds of debates I was referring to. When we argue about things that do not have proof, no facts, we must argue by logic. In this case, God's existence has no proof except for the perception that there are evidences of His existence.

Another example would be the existence of Heaven and Hell. Where are the facts that they exist? Perception, faith and belief can hardly be called facts.

[racoons > you]

thats my point. the arguments are based upon opinions and beliefs, not solid facts, therefore it wont be possible to really change what people believe on the matter

'gods real because i believe it'

'no he's not, because i dont believe it'

no one will change their stamces, which therefore makes me see this as pointless

[Spirited Away]

And my point was that it doesn't take facts to convince someone if the opposing side can present good logic. If one still isn't convinced though reasonable logic is presented, then one must present facts or more logic to convince otherwise.
I can just as easily argue that God exists without proof.

[racoons > you]

but whats the point in arguing without proof, no one will ever win. unless of course, you die, and im frankly not that curious

but, in a debate of this nature, which concerns peoples' inner most convictions, logicwont be enough. its much easier to convert someone to a religion than it is to drag them ou tof it

[Spirited Away]

I see it this way: if I have enough logic to convince another, yet the other still refuses to be persuaded and has no arguments to prove otherwise, then that person is just stubbornly holding on to something without logic.

Something without logic, without proof is... well, anyone with logic can fill in that pause.

[racoons > you]

yes, but im saying that no amount of logic would be enough to persuade someone to throw away something which is sucha fundamental part of who they are

[Spirited Away]

Unarguably true. But then again, what does that say about a person who holds on to something without proof, without logic?

[racoons > you]

it say that there own logic must have convinced them of the existence of god, or else they would not continue to believe

but surely you're holding on to your disbelief without proof, because as i see it, no amount of logic can be full proof without solid fact, which is, as previously said, unavailable on this topic

[Spirited Away]

it say that there own logic must have convinced them of the existence of god, or else they would not continue to believe

Their logic or perception did the convincing? Perceived logic can be deceptive.

but surely you're holding on to your disbelief without proof, because as i see it, no amount of logic can be full proof without solid fact, which is, as previously said, unavailable on this topic

I sway to the wind of logic, evidence is a plus. If something is argued without solid proof, but the logic of things make sense then I don't see why I can't believe it.

I do believe in God, or rather a Creator, and I did debate a while back about it... Don't quite remember on which page... but if a person can convince me that God doesn't exist with logic that can't be further argued or questioned, then I'll definately take into consideration that I'm wrong, do some soul searching and reassess myself. Just like I did with the debate of gay marriages. I threw away a part that was a fundamental part of who I am because of good logic.

[sammi rules you]

my beliefs are based on logic, and i'm atheist. i just think the whole idea of a God, or creationism, etc. is just ridiculous. i go read my science book, i SEE the cells forming and evolving into greater things under a microscope; it all makes sense. it's all right there, in front of me. if i test these things out, it works. i see the pictures of the skeletons from millions of years ago, and how much different they are from the modern human. they have evolved.

if the whole world knew absolutely nothing about religion, had no idea of creationism, and someone told me that there was this..spirit..that is in the sky, with angels, creating and controlling everything....i would laugh and think the person was completely out of their minds.

however, i understand that religion is a part of some peoples' lives, and motivates them to become better people. it's faith, and it's fine if others have it. it gives them something to fall back on, something with answers to unanswered questions. i won't think any less of the person, that is, unless they shove it in my face and tell me i'm wrong and bad for my beliefs but..there are some who don't, and that's fine.

[sammi rules you]

sorry for double posting, but i have to keep this alive..i'll delete this later.

did i kill it?