god, part 2 Options

[Spirited Away]

The whole purpose of christianity is to serve others. Jesus would wash his desciples feet before they ate. Now, you think. The SON OF GOD washing other peoples feet. I would think that is a little backwards. They should be washing HIS feet! But He didn't care about that, He wanted to help others. Of course missionaries are going to tell people about God. We are His desciples. We are supposed to go and tell people about the great and mighty things that He did. So what if we can help at the same time? What is wrong with that? I can't find anything. It's not like they go over there with the attitude, "if I tell these people about God, He will come sooner" No, they go over there doing what they are meant to do and helping the less fortunate.

That's just fine with me... but remember that Native Americans had their own beliefs, but Christian missionaries settled and destroyed their culture (missionaries first, military later). Sure, it was harmless because those people had good intentions, but there were some that WANTED to retain their beliefs.

Take me for example. I was seeing a guy who was Catholic and his mother disapproved our dating because I wasn't a Catholic like her family was. So, now I'm dating a Baptist who wants to be a Minister and he tells me stories about God that I don't want to hear about because I don't care, but he insists that I listen.

I mean, you talk to people about God even though they DO NOT want to. I don't force feed you my beliefs because it's DISCOURTEOUS and BARBARIC, but in history, Christianity is KNOWN for creating wars because people do not hold the same belief as they.

Would those missionaries help those who refuse to believe in God? Think about it before you say yes. Think about Gallileo, who was excommunicated because he wanted to give the world knowledge, think about martyrs who died because they wanted to believe in what they have lived for most of their lives. Thanks.

[danyo]

I have a few questions i'd like to ask you guys and girls.

how do you guys and girls feel when someone comes to you to talk to you about God?

Because I am so sad that today, whenever a christian goes to talk to non-believer about God, it's almost as if it's a bad thing to them, something that annoys them, and pisses them off because of how some christians represent the way of life of a christian and how they approach them.

The true motive for introducing God [i don't like to use the word "convert" because it sounds as if it's something you become and change into a whole new.. iono.. spiece or something because to me it's meeting two new people, one who is your father and the other is your new best friend who has gave up His life for you.] should not be for you own benefits like the one that has been mentioned, to make Jesus come back faster, but because you believe that everyone in this world is family and you want to see as many of your brothers and sisters up in heaven when you die to live. It's suppose to be as if you are trying to bring back lost brothers and/or sisters back home to our father up in heaven [example so please don't be offended by the word lost.. i dont mean it.. (:].

But there are lots of people who call themselves "christians" yet they aren't christians themselves. Some of them call themselves that because that's what most of the people around them are or.. their parents are and grew up hearing their parents calling themselves as christians so they say "oh then i guess i must be christian" but are clueless, or because they haven't found the base, the love, OR a person who became a "christian" going through one of the things i mentioned here, shoved it down their throats and forced them or brainwashed them or w/e. and they see people saying, "try to convert other people into becoming christians" and they try.. without the most important thing that is needed to make them understand what the way of life of a christian is which also IS the way of the life of a christian, the love and without it, i can almost say it is impossible for them to become a true christian meaning "With Christ".

Why do you think christians are taking the time to introduce God["convert"] to people? Why do you think they would use up their time to talk about those things to you? I mean.. they don't make any money or profit from it, right? nor do they recieve prizes.. or gifts.. or tickets of some sort.. or certificates.. or w/e. and of course it's not because they just want to make others believe the same as they do cuz everyone knows thats impossible, everyone is different.

"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much."
-Walter Lippmann


so i guess what i am trying to say is that.. they aren't trying to waste your precious time to bother you, or to annoy you, or to make your life miserable or whatever.. and at the same time i'm saying you need to listen to what they are saying when they talk.. all i ask of you is that you know the true meaning of why they do what they do and it is because they care about you.. not because they wanna try to make you to think the same way.. but because they want you to experience what they are going through because it's something that they, in their perspective, is something so good and great and they would love to share it with you. and i am also saying if they dont choose love, which is respecting and accepting you no matter what, over trying to make you believe in what they believe in, then they are either not christians or not one yet or they might be but not quite there yet to be trying to introduce God to people.

also to fae.. just because the people who killed in horrible ways, called themselves christians back then, doesnt mean christians now will and that also doesnt mean we wont.. so what i am saying is.. you can say that all you want to the person that killed or kill but please dont count us as a whole because right off the bat, nobody should kill anyone, and especially no christian should kill anyone because if they truly are a true christian, they wouldnt. Who they LIVE FOR told them not to.

and again if you feel as if you dont agree with anything i said here, feel free to disagree
and i say this and will continue to say this because sometimes people forget that and they believe in what they believe is right way and the only right way that they start offending others, and if i did or ever do, let me just apologize to you before hand or wait.. if i already did, thats after, yea ok neways.. where was i, oh because that is not my intention. (:

[Spirited Away]

how do you guys and girls feel when someone comes to you to talk to you about God?

How would you feel when someone approaches you with the intention to preach to you about Satan, Yaweh, or perhaps some Pagan gods and goddesses? To be polite, I would listen for the first few minutes and then excuse myself with a reason of needing to be elsewhere. Why? Because the fact that I have my own beliefs drives me to the point of insanity when someone blatantly tells me that I need to believe in something else or suffer the consequences. I believe in free will, and if God had meant that I believe in His gift of free will, then I will use it.

Because I am so sad that today, whenever a christian goes to talk to non-believer about God, it's almost as if it's a bad thing to them, something that annoys them, and pisses them off because of how some christians represent the way of life of a christian and how they approach them.

How would you like it if the same group of people who wanted to preach to you about Satan/Buddhism/what not, came back again the next day, and the next, and days after that to talk about the same thing? Personally, I hate repititions, and I dislike having to hear the same things repeatedely. Even though I sincerely hate people preaching to me, I still politely turn them away instead of cursing at their silliness. But why is it that some Christians just DO NOT/CAN NOT reciprocate my politeness and leave when I want them to?

I do not like people forcing anything on me as I am raised to believe in my own worth. I may be arrogant and sinful in a Christian's eyes but in my eyes, I am true to my self.

If it is not in Man to judge, then why do Christians deem it necessary to lable, categorize, and segregate from non-believers? Do you think yourselves too high and mighty to associate with non-believers? There are terms used to criticize and segregate Man from his peers such as "heretic", "heathen", "infidel"... etc. If there is goodness in Christianity, then why is there such negativity?

The true motive for introducing God [i don't like to use the word "convert" because it sounds as if it's something you become and change into a whole new.. iono.. spiece or something because to me it's meeting two new people, one who is your father and the other is your new best friend who has gave up His life for you.] should not be for you own benefits like the one that has been mentioned, to make Jesus come back faster, but because you believe that everyone in this world is family and you want to see as many of your brothers and sisters up in heaven when you die to live. It's suppose to be as if you are trying to bring back lost brothers and/or sisters back home to our father up in heaven [example so please don't be offended by the word lost.. i dont mean it.. (:].

I understand that good Christians do have good intentions, but ethical, and moral people have good intentions as well. We do not care to be in Heaven, because we believe that if such a place exists, then it would not turn away righteous people. There is no goodness in anything that punish good people or make virtuous people suffer.

But there are lots of people who call themselves "christians" yet they aren't christians themselves. Some of them call themselves that because that's what most of the people around them are or.. their parents are and grew up hearing their parents calling themselves as christians so they say "oh then i guess i must be christian" but are clueless, or because they haven't found the base, the love, OR a person who became a "christian" going through one of the things i mentioned here, shoved it down their throats and forced them or brainwashed them or w/e. and they see people saying, "try to convert other people into becoming christians" and they try.. without the most important thing that is needed to make them understand what the way of life of a christian is which also IS the way of the life of a christian, the love and without it, i can almost say it is impossible for them to become a true christian meaning "With Christ".

Someone told me that Christianity is more of a term that describes a relationship rather than religion/way of life. If it is meant to be a relationship, then why must anyone be forced into a relationship? Is it not weird to be forced into marriage? Is it not weird to accept someone other than your birth father as a father? It is to me. I've known one father for all my life, and even though we have our angry moments, I still prefer to love him more than any other father figures. Why? My father is there, physically, when I need a shoulder to cry on or he's there to reprimand me for doing wrong. But this so called "heavenly Father" is out of sight and nothing tangible. It's the belief that He is there that motivates Christians, but it's the physical attachment and care that I need from a parent, and not belief!

Why do you think christians are taking the time to introduce God["convert"] to people? Why do you think they would use up their time to talk about those things to you? I mean.. they don't make any money or profit from it, right? nor do they recieve prizes.. or gifts.. or tickets of some sort.. or certificates.. or w/e. and of course it's not because they just want to make others believe the same as they do cuz everyone knows thats impossible, everyone is different.

Do not be offended the following words as it is meant to make my point. Of course we've all heard of peer pressure and how it works.

A test: put one person (a child) in a large darken room with one hundred other people (adults). If one hundred adults claim that there is a monster in the room with them, then the child will make the assumption that there is a monster and will group together with the adults to feel safe and secure.

Now then, imagine that monster represents Hell, the adults to be Christians, and the child to be a non-believer who is lost in his/her own beliefs and needed something more secure. As you can see where I'm going with this, Hell isn't any place anyone wants to be in, but to prevent such a fate, the non-believer will "believe" for the sake of security. After all, if one hundred people believe in it, there must be something worth believing in.... eventhough that "something" may not exist.

However, that doesn't work with everyone. As a non-Christian (which is different than a non-believer), I do not agree with the concept of Heaven and Hell. One place is meant to be good, and the other is evil. If Heaven will not allow good people to enter its gates, then it is no better than a place of evil. After all, good is supposed to side with good, not turn it away.

"When all think alike, no one is thinking very much."
-Walter Lippmann

You're right. According to Joseph Brodsky, there is a sort of Evil in conformity. So why is it that most Christians want non-believers to conform to Christianity? Do Christians not think alike? Does that not mean that they don't think very much? That is what the quote is suggesting.

so i guess what i am trying to say is that.. they aren't trying to waste your precious time to bother you, or to annoy you, or to make your life miserable or whatever.. and at the same time i'm saying you need to listen to what they are saying when they talk.. all i ask of you is that you know the true meaning of why they do what they do and it is because they care about you.. not because they wanna try to make you to think the same way.. but because they want you to experience what they are going through because it's something that they, in their perspective, is something so good and great and they would love to share it with you. and i am also saying if they dont choose love, which is respecting and accepting you no matter what, over trying to make you believe in what they believe in, then they are either not christians or not one yet or they might be but not quite there yet to be trying to introduce God to people.

Why must we "need" to listen to things that we do not agree with? Since you have a freedom to preach, I have the freedom to turn away from your speech. God gave us free will, my free will demands that I don't have to listen. It's funny because I tried to explain my beliefs to the guy I'm seeing, who wants to be a Minister, and he always, somehow, turn our conversation into God business. That annoys the heck out of me. Christians can have their say, but give the stage for someone else will ya! Don't hog the microphone!

also to fae.. just because the people who killed in horrible ways, called themselves christians back then, doesnt mean christians now will and that also doesnt mean we wont.. so what i am saying is.. you can say that all you want to the person that killed or kill but please dont count us as a whole because right off the bat, nobody should kill anyone, and especially no christian should kill anyone because if they truly are a true christian, they wouldnt. Who they LIVE FOR told them not to.

I never said that all Christains kill. That would be very illogical, and I like to think of myself as a person possessing some logic. Notice that I've said that Christianity caused warfare, not all Christians caused warfare. I've also stated those events with some hint to the past and not the present.

This is what my Dad has to say about most religions: when someone is in the wrong, they blame it on someone else... You can sort of guess what my Dad means by saying that. If a Christian is bad, others blame it on the work of the Devil. If a Christian is doing something he/she shouldn't be, others blame the fact that he/she isn't a good Christian. Gallileo did something he thought that would benefit mankind, but Christians didn't agree with him and made him suffer. I guess you can blame that on the Devil, too.

and again if you feel as if you dont agree with anything i said here, feel free to disagree
and i say this and will continue to say this because sometimes people forget that and they believe in what they believe is right way and the only right way that they start offending others, and if i did or ever do, let me just apologize to you before hand or wait.. if i already did, thats after, yea ok neways.. where was i, oh because that is not my intention. (:

You can say whatever you want in this debate. It has already lasted for a good sum of pages and yet no conclusion is reached and I don't expect it to ever be resolved (until we die and find out the truth, though it may be too late for either side). Belief is a powerful thing and is almost limitless. I like things that stimulate possibilities and I do not care for things that surpress possibilities of the mind, therefore, I do not, cannot, agree with Christianity.

[*CrackedRearView*]

I'm in love with uninspiredfae...

[tessashley]

Danyo, you are awesome. I have been trying to explain all that you said, and I couldn't for the life of me find the words. Thanks!

I for one, don't push my religon on to people, I SHARE. Like danyo said, I want to share my happiness that I found with Christ. I'm not trying to convert anyone! I plant the seed, and God will water it when the time is right.

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[tessashley]

If it is not in Man to judge, then why do Christians deem it necessary to lable, categorize, and segregate from non-believers? Do you think yourselves too high and mighty to associate with non-believers? There are terms used to criticize and segregate Man from his peers such as "heretic", "heathen", "infidel"... etc. If there is goodness in Christianity, then why is there such negativity?

if you would read up, I have talked about this. The christians that put themselves above others, are in it for the title. Jesus loved everyone. We as christians are supposed to do His work, as He would do it, if He was still with us.

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[danyo]

Now then, imagine that monster represents Hell, the adults to be Christians, and the child to be a non-believer who is lost in his/her own beliefs and needed something more secure. As you can see where I'm going with this, Hell isn't any place anyone wants to be in, but to prevent such a fate, the non-believer will "believe" for the sake of security. After all, if one hundred people believe in it, there must be something worth believing in.... eventhough that "something" may not exist.

then the child is not a true believer if he/she built the base of his/her faith on fear of hell and even if he/she is, the relationship will never last through all the things he/she will go thru and maybe even the tests that God will give to the child to test how strong and what the reason of him/her for believing in HIM because unless the base of it says, "I AM A BELIEVER BECAUSE JESUS CHRIST WENT THROUGH ALL THAT SUFFERING TO DIE FOR ME SO THAT I CAN BE SAVED! THEREFORE I LOVE HIM WITH ALL MY HEART AND I AM WILLING TO DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING I CAN IN RETURN AND FOLLOW HIS WORDS" you don't have a relationship with Him. like you said, its a relationship and you can not have a true relationship that lasts with someone without love.
Let's say you are God. You sent your son to die to save everyone. You have two believer.
One[A] says, "no matter where i go after death, i will always love Jesus for what He did for me."
The other[b] says, "If I believe then i will be saved from hell, boy am i glad whoever this Jesus is died for me, now i can go on with my life"

which one would you feel more love from? A obviously right? so unless the relationship is built on love[not someone expecting somethin in return for believing, which is selfishness right there already], only then will the relationship work or last. Action speaks louder than words, and your heart speaks even louder than your actions. You build the relationship from inside out.

[ t o : t e s s a s h l e y ]
and thank you for that comment tessashley.
but that goes straight up to Him.
i've only been christian for about 5~6 months believe it or not.
my dad is an atheist, my mom isnt sure on what to believe but definitely against most christians but we have talks every now and then and she's starting to build up a relationship with Him.
and.. obviously my parents dont go to church.
neither do i, i've never attended a church on a sunday. why don't you go alone you ask? cuz im not even old enough to drive yet.
well i have wen i was 6 or something but i was always playing with my brother and hated church so that doesnt even count...
so where could all of this have come from?
can you even think of someone else besides Him. (:

[CrimsonArchangel]

I like things that stimulate possibilities and I do not care for things that surpress possibilities of the mind, therefore, I do not, cannot, agree with Christianity.

Fae... I''m a little confused here and I want to try to be clarified here before I make assumptions. Are you trying to say that Christianity supresses possibilities of the mind? How so?

To danyo, excellent words. Congrats on accepting Jesus.

[Spirited Away]

I for one, don't push my religon on to people, I SHARE. Like danyo said, I want to share my happiness that I found with Christ. I'm not trying to convert anyone! I plant the seed, and God will water it when the time is right. [/color][/font]

What if there are those who do not want your kind of happiness because they have already found their own?

if you would read up, I have talked about this. The christians that put themselves above others, are in it for the title. Jesus loved everyone. We as christians are supposed to do His work, as He would do it, if He was still with us.

I did read it, and my response was mostly targeted at self-righteous Christians, and not those who claim to be true Christians.

then the child is not a true believer if he/she built the base of his/her faith on fear of hell and even if he/she is, the relationship will never last through all the things he/she will go thru and maybe even the tests that God will give to the child to test how strong and what the reason of him/her for believing in HIM because unless the base of it says, "I AM A BELIEVER BECAUSE JESUS CHRIST WENT THROUGH ALL THAT SUFFERING TO DIE FOR ME SO THAT I CAN BE SAVED! THEREFORE I LOVE HIM WITH ALL MY HEART AND I AM WILLING TO DO ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING I CAN IN RETURN AND FOLLOW HIS WORDS" you don't have a relationship with Him. like you said, its a relationship and you can not have a true relationship that lasts with someone without love.
Let's say you are God. You sent your son to die to save everyone. You have two believer.
One[A] says, "no matter where i go after death, i will always love Jesus for what He did for me."
The other[b] says, "If I believe then i will be saved from hell, boy am i glad whoever this Jesus is died for me, now i can go on with my life"

which one would you feel more love from? A obviously right? so unless the relationship is built on love[not someone expecting somethin in return for believing, which is selfishness right there already], only then will the relationship work or last. Action speaks louder than words, and your heart speaks even louder than your actions. You build the relationship from inside out.

Actually, if let say that a man declares that he will die today so that you can be at peace for eternity in an afterlife similar to what Heaven offers, then would you, and million others think that he's a messenger from God? Or perhaps Jesus? Just a question.

But anyway, so you're saying that God will only saves those who love Him, right? Can I then assume that God will forsaken those who choose not to believe in Him, yet still live a life of morality? So is this, not then one of my previous points, then there is NO GOOD in a place where good people are turned away?

Fae... I''m a little confused here and I want to try to be clarified here before I make assumptions. Are you trying to say that Christianity supresses possibilities of the mind? How so? 

I sure did and I think I answered it in some previous posts... lets see... Oh, let me know if you need the sources for these:

Christians actually made it harder to discover new knowledge and persecuted the most intellectual beings in history (i.e Gallileo). They burned books, libraries containing Pagan teachings.

According to John Chrysostom, who belonged to the Holy Hierarch of Constantinople, "the slave should be resigned to his lot... in obeying his master he is obeying God."

Copernicus did not let HIS version of the heliocentric model (sun centered system) be known until he was old, out of FEAR that the Church will brand him a heretic. Thus, proving that knowledge is supressed by the Christian faith. Any well-learned individual would know of the obstacles Copernicus and Gallileo had to go through because of religion.

And St Augustine deemed that "since God has spoken to us it is no longer necessary for us to think."

Furthermore, God deems that He is the one true God, therefore everyone else's dieties are wrong.

If your teacher tells you that he's the only one's right and other teachers are wrong, would you believe him? I know I shouldn't compare the Almighty with a mortal, but it's true that God claims that He is right and all others are wrong, therefore, he doesn't support possibilities. Perhaps, God doesn't mean for it to be this way, but many Christians, throughout history, have made it so.

I really didn't want this to turn out as offensive as it sounds, but it is hard not to be offensive where religion is concerned.

I want to say that it's fine and dandy that Christians believe in one thing, but DO NOT assume that I, or many others, will eagerly conform to Christian beliefs; it would not be free will.

[danyo]

Actually, if let say that a man declares that he will die today so that you can be at peace for eternity in an afterlife similar to what Heaven offers, then would you, and million others think that he's a messenger from God? Or perhaps Jesus? Just a question.

hmm i'm not fully understanding the question but.. why would there be a need for another man to come and die for me so i can be at peace for eternity when Jesus already came and payed the price and did all that?
and.. how can he be a sacrifice? is he a sinless man? and what do u mean by similiar to what Heaven offers? are you saying he is offering a different place that is like heaven? who created that different heaven?

People believed in Jesus because the old testament talked about the messiah, the son of God, being born to save them. did the bible talk about another man coming down give me peace? i'm confused on what your question is.. maybe that's not what you're asking.. would you mind asking me that again in a different way please?

But anyway, so you're saying that God will only saves those who love Him, right? Can I then assume that God will forsaken those who choose not to believe in Him, yet still live a life of morality? So is this, not then one of my previous points, then there is NO GOOD in a place where good people are turned away?

The forsaking is done by people, by us. God isn't doing the forsaking if you're not believing in Him =/.. you're forsaking him and giving satan yourself to him so he can USE you without you even knowing you are being used. God is always waiting for that slight moment, chances to see if you'd open up and come back to HIM.
Also God sent HIS own beloved son, Christ Jesus, to save you and pay for the price of your sins and now its on you, it's on you to either take that and be saved or leave it there and not be saved. And the reason why good people are not allowed in heaven for not believing in God is because, we are born as sinners. think of it as a disease called "original sin". Original sin was brought down by adam and eve which makes you sin, and to enter the kingdom of Heaven, anyone who has that disease must be cured before entering the kingdom of Heaven and that can only be cured and cleaned only.. by the blood of Jesus, which is by believing in God, and accepting Jesus as your lord and savior.. ill end this post with a story that shows you an example of what Christ did for us, a lil tiny example because Christ did it for every single person on this planet, i hope you guys read the whole story. and what i said up here is a point of view of a christian so if i stated as a fact and you don't agree, again feel free too disagree (:

oh yes and a special thank you to
C r i m s o n A r c h a n g e l for that comment (:



DONUTS

There was a boy by the name of Steve who was attending school in Utah.
Brother Christianson taught at this particular school. He had an
open-door policy and would take in any student that had been thrown out
of another class as long as they would abide by his rules. Steve had
been kicked out of his sixth period and no other teacher wanted him, so
he went into Brother Christianson's class. Steve was told that he could
not be late, so he arrived just seconds before the bell rang and he
would sit in the very back of the room. He would also be the first to
leave after the class was over. One day, Brother Christianson asked
Steve to stay after class so he could talk with him. After class, Bro.
Christianson pulled Steve aside and said, "You think you're pretty
tough, don't you?"

Steve's answer was, "Yeah, I do."

Then Brother Christianson asked, "How many push-ups can you do?"

Steve said, "I do about 200 every night."

"200? That's pretty good, Steve," Brother Christianson said. "Do you think you could do 300?"

Steve replied, "I don't know... I've never done 300 at a time."

"Do you think you could?" Again asked Brother Christianson.

"Well, I can try," said Steve.

"Can you do 300 in sets of 10? I need you to do 300 in sets of ten for
this to work. Can you do it? I need you to tell me you can do it,"
Brother Christianson said.

Steve said, "Well... I think I can... yeah, I can do it."

Brother Christianson said, "Good! I need you to do this on Friday."

Friday came and Steve got to class early and sat in the front of the
room. When class started, Brother Christianson pulled out a big box of
donuts. Now these weren't the normal kinds of donuts, they were the
extra fancy BIG kind, with cream centers and frosting swirls. Everyone
was pretty excited-it was Friday, the last class of the day, and they
were going to get an early start on the weekend.

Bro. Christianson went to the first girl in the first row and asked,
"Cynthia, do you want a donut?"

Cynthia said, "Yes."

Bro. Christianson then turned to Steve and asked, "Steve, would you do
ten push-ups so that Cynthia can have a donut?"

Steve said, "Sure," and jumped down from his desk to do a quick ten..

Then Steve again sat in his desk. Bro. Christianson put a donut on
Cynthia's desk. Bro. Christianson then went to Joe, the next person, and
asked, "Joe do you want a donut?"

Joe said, "Yes."

Bro. Christianson asked, "Steve would you do ten push-ups so Joe can
have a donut?" Steve did ten push-ups, Joe got a donut. And so it went,
down the first aisle, Steve did ten pushups for every person before they
got their donut. And down the second aisle, till Bro. Christianson came
to Scott. Scott was captain of the football team and center of the
basketball team. He was very popular and never lacking for female
companionship. When Bro. Christianson asked, "Scott do you want a
donut?" Scott's reply was, "Well, can I do my own pushups?"

Bro. Christianson said, "No, Steve has to do them."

Then Scott said, "Well, I don't want one then."

Bro. Christianson then turned to Steve and asked "Steve, would you do
ten pushups so Scott can have a donut he doesn't want?"

Steve started to do ten pushups. Scott said, "HEY! I said I didn't want
one!"

Bro. Christianson said, "Look, this is my classroom, my class, my desks,
and my donuts. Just leave it on the desk if you don't want it." And he
put a donut on Scott's desk.

Now by this time, Steve had begun to slow down a little. He just stayed
on the floor between sets because it took too much effort to be getting
up and down. You could start to see a little perspiration coming out
around his brow. Bro. Christianson started down the third row. Now the
students were beginning to get a little angry.

Bro. Christianson asked Jenny, "Jenny, do you want a donut?"

Jenny said, "No."

Then Bro. Christianson asked Steve, "Steve, would you do ten pushups so
Jenny can have a donut that she doesn't want?" Steve did ten, Jenny got
a donut.

By now, the students were beginning to say "No" and there were all these
uneaten donuts on the desks. Steve was also having to really put forth a
lot of effort to get these pushups done for each donut. There began to
be a small pool of sweat on the floor beneath his face, his arms and
brow were beginning to get red because of the physical effort involved.
Bro. Christianson asked Robert to watch Steve to make sure he did ten
pushups in a set because he couldn't bear to watch all of Steve's work
for all of those uneaten donuts. So Robert began to watch Steve closely.
Bro. Christianson started down the fourth row.

During his class, however, some students had wandered in and sat along
the heaters along the sides of the room. When Bro. Christianson realized
this; he did a quick count and saw 34 students in the room. He started
to worry if Steve would be able to make it.

Bro. Christianson went on to the next person and the next and the next.
Near the end of that row, Steve was really having a rough time. He was
taking a lot more time to complete each set.

Steve asked Bro. Christianson, "Do I have to make my nose touch on each one?"

Bro. Christianson thought for a moment, "Well, they're your pushups..
You can do them any way that you want." And Bro. Christianson went on.

A few moments later, Jason came to the room and was about to come in
when all the students yelled, "NO! Don't come in! Stay out!"

Jason didn't know what was going on. Steve picked up his head and said,
"No, let him come."

Bro. Christianson said, "You realize that if Jason comes in you will
have to do ten pushups for him."

Steve said, "Yes, let him come in."

Bro. Christianson said, "Okay, I'll let you get Jason's out of the way
right now. Jason, do you want a donut?"

"Yes."

"Steve, will you do ten pushups so that Jason can have a donut?" Steve
did ten pushups very slowly and with great effort. Jason, bewildered,
was handed a donut and sat down.

Bro. Christianson finished the fourth row, then started on those seated
on the heaters. Steve's arms were now shaking with each pushup in a
struggle to lift himself against the force of gravity. Sweat was
dropping off of his face and, by this time, there was not a dry eye in
the room.

The very last two girls in the room were cheerleaders and very popular.
Bro. Christianson went to Linda, the second to last, and asked, "Linda,
do you want a doughnut? Linda said, very sadly, "No, thank you."

Bro. Christianson asked Steve, "Steve, would you do ten pushups so that
Linda can have a donut she doesn't want?"

Grunting from the effort, Steve did ten very slow pushups for Linda..

Then Bro. Christianson turned to the last girl, Susan. "Susan, do you
want a donut?" Susan, with tears flowing down her face, asked, "Bro.
Christianson, can I help him?"

Bro. Christianson, with tears of his own, said, "No, he has to do it
alone, Steve, would you do ten pushups so Susan can have a donut?"

As Steve very slowly finished his last pushup, with the understanding
that he had accomplished all that was required of him, having done 350
pushups, his arms buckled beneath him and he fell to the floor.


Brother Christianson turned to the room and said.

"And so it was, that our Savior, Jesus Christ, plead to the Father,
"Into thy hands I commend my spirit." With the understanding that He had
done everything that was required of Him, he collapsed on the cross and
died. And like some of those in this room, many of us leave the gift on
the desk, uneaten

[Spirited Away]

hmm i'm not fully understanding the question but.. why would there be a need for another man to come and die for me so i can be at peace for eternity when Jesus already came and payed the price and did all that?
and.. how can he be a sacrifice? is he a sinless man? and what do u mean by similiar to what Heaven offers? are you saying he is offering a different place that is like heaven? who created that different heaven?

Sure, how do you know what Heaven offers? Is it because it's said so in a the Bible?

Remember how Jesus came and died for our sins? Well, what if God sent Him again, except in the form of another man, to walk amongst us and to die once more. Would you accept this Man as your Savior as well? What I mean is, remember that Jesus wasn't accepted to be a messenger of God by those who condemed Him to death. So, if a man come to you and said that he is Jesus, would you believe Him? That's what I'm asking... I know it's kind of confusing.. but bare with me. It would be still God who send this man...

People believed in Jesus because the old testament talked about the messiah, the son of God, being born to save them. did the bible talk about another man coming down give me peace? i'm confused on what your question is.. maybe that's not what you're asking.. would you mind asking me that again in a different way please? 

Know that the Bible has been amended and many things were added and taken out. Why did God chose to send Jesus so long ago and not during the WWs when people everywhere needed a miracle? ?

The forsaking is done by people, by us. God isn't doing the forsaking if you're not believing in Him =/.. you're forsaking him and giving satan yourself to him so he can USE you without you even knowing you are being used. God is always waiting for that slight moment, chances to see if you'd open up and come back to HIM.

This is where I have to get exasperated with you. Listen to yourself. Do you think that people who do not worship God is Satanic? If there is so much "GOODNESS" in Christians, then why do Priests/Ministers/Fathers, sin as man do? Christians sin as much as a normal person, if not MORE than a person who is ethical and lead his/her life morally. Christians can fall as easily to the Devil as any other, so what makes Christians any better?

With the promise of Hell, it's easy for people to open up to God. I haven't done anything that my earthly parents can't forgive me for, and yet God find it necessary to punish me simply because I was born ignorant of Him. God will continue to disown me because of my sin of desire, a desire to live for free will, a desire to discover, the desire of knowledge.

Tell, me, what is the Devil like? How do people who have been swayed by the Devil act? Do they talk like me or commit worse things? And yet, because I refuse to believe in religion, I will be on the same level as spawns of Satan.

The justice of Man seems more logical and less evil than those of religion.

So are you saying that God will always be waiting? If He is indeed, someone who is forgiving and loving, meaning He can truly forgive anything, than I would believe in Him, because I will not be able to find any contradictions. However, the God that you, and several others have portrayed is TOO problematic.

Also God sent HIS own beloved son, Christ Jesus, to save you and pay for the price of your sins and now its on you, it's on you to either take that and be saved or leave it there and not be saved. And the reason why good people are not allowed in heaven for not believing in God is because, we are born as sinners.

I do not think ANYONE is born a sinner. Crikey, this upsets me more than anything. IF GOD 'PUTS' a child into the wombs of his/her mother (someone said that we all came from God), than that child has been touched by purity and would have been purify by GOD Himself. How would that child be a born sinner? If we all came from God, then we should be free of sins!!!! What contradiction is this!!!?!?!?

think of it as a disease called "original sin". Original sin was brought down by adam and eve which makes you sin, and to enter the kingdom of Heaven, anyone who has that disease must be cured before entering the kingdom of Heaven and that can only be cured and cleaned only.. by the blood of Jesus, which is by believing in God, and accepting Jesus as your lord and savior.. ill end this post with a story that shows you an example of what Christ did for us, a lil tiny example because Christ did it for every single person on this planet, i hope you guys read the whole story. and what i said up here is a point of view of a christian so if i stated as a fact and you don't agree, again feel free too disagree (:

Sorry, I will have to continue to disagree, unless someone can come up with a sounder logic.

DONUTS

That's was a nice story, accept for the fact that he did push ups for the ones that didn't even want the donuts.

What I mean is: if people wanted to do their own push ups, why didn't Bro. Christianson let them?

Anyway, I'll find a non-believer's story and post it up too, kay?

EDIT>>>>>Here you go

Thomas Paine isn't a non-believer, but I think my beliefs matches his the best. Anyway, have fun reading him as I had fun reading your story.
<<<<<EDIT

[danyo]

So, if a man come to you and said that he is Jesus, would you believe Him? That's what I'm asking... I know it's kind of confusing.. but bare with me. It would be still God who send this man...

there is actually no need for someone to come and for me again.. since it has already been payed, there is no point it in but if he came back.. i dont know but if He is Jesus then i prolly should know just by the way He talks to me or way He looks or whatever, and if i not, id ask him to tell me the whole bible from memory and stuff like that. what it was like for Him to die like that, ask Him to tell me exact details of what happened back then and then ask Him to tell me every single thing that has ever happened to ME. IF He is Jesus, He should know.

Know that the Bible has been amended and many things were added and taken out. Why did God chose to send Jesus so long ago and not during the WWs when people everywhere needed a miracle? ?

yes, and it also says that anyone who adds or takes out things will be judged. if i believe the wrong thing, He will probably, then, look at my heart. Why did God chose to send Jesus so long ago and not during the WWs? who knows, ask God.

This is where I have to get exasperated with you. Listen to yourself. Do you think that people who do not worship God is Satanic? If there is so much "GOODNESS" in Christians, then why do Priests/Ministers/Fathers, sin as man do? Christians sin as much as a normal person, if not MORE than a person who is ethical and lead his/her life morally. Christians can fall as easily to the Devil as any other, so what makes Christians any better?

did i say everyone who does not worship God is satanic? if i did, im sorry. i simply said that you are someone satan can use with you not having the intention to do so, and that is quite too difficult for me to explain throu words. I've followed satans plans before so i just know by heart what it is. No one ever said Christians are better, at least not the true christians. and Christians dont fall as easily to the devil because they believe in the devil right..? so obviously they watch out for the devil more than someone who doesnt believe in the devil. being a christian doesnt change us into a better person, although it can. anyone can become a better person.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not shouting "I am saved"
I'm whispering "I was lost"
That is why I chose this way.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
And need someone to be my guide.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak
And pray for strength to carry on.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed
And cannot ever pay the debt.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I'm not claiming to be perfect,
My flaws are all too visible,
But God believes I'm worth it.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I still feel the sting of pain
I have my share of heartaches
Which is why I speak His name.

When I say..."I am a Christian"
I do not wish to judge.
I have no authority.
I only know I'm loved.

With the promise of Hell, it's easy for people to open up to God. I haven't done anything that my earthly parents can't forgive me for, and yet God find it necessary to punish me simply because I was born ignorant of Him. God will continue to disown me because of my sin of desire, a desire to live for free will, a desire to discover, the desire of knowledge.

i thought i already pointed out to you that its not a punishment.

God made heaven and hell.
Heaven for us, hell for satan.
See, through God we are "saved" from satan and if we aren't saved, we are either followers of satan OR we are following satan's plans without even knowing it. So basically, you end up in hell.. not for punishment but because you did not take the sacrifice that Jesus has given you to pass. Jesus is like a ticket[through Jesus' blood we are cleansed, not meaning we are a better person but, He erases the wrong we do. Doesn't mean we do less wrong because that is still based on how you live with your freedom of choice that has been given.]. into Heaven and if you don't have it[don't take it, and love Jesus and God for that and live to for HIM], you can not enter because HE can not let any of the "unclean" inside Heaven.

Let's say you have mmm.. 5 sons.. and you just bought a new house to move into in a new neighborhood with your sons and this place is perfect.. everyone is happy.. its very peaceful.. nobody is sick so no sick can go in and nor is there any medicine there because there is no need. But two of your sons have... SARS. You have a cure for each of them and one took one and was cured but the other refuses to take it and says "you are not my mother". what would you do? unless he takes the cure, he won't be able to go with you guys to the new house in the new neighborhood because the other 4 child will get sars and die along with all the other neighbors. this is kind of life the situation God is in. Jesus is the medicine. it's you're decision to either take it or not.

Tell, me, what is the Devil like? How do people who have been swayed by the Devil act? Do they talk like me or commit worse things? And yet, because I refuse to believe in religion, I will be on the same level as spawns of Satan.

for christians, basically its anything that gets in the way of your relationship with HIM. and it is also said that "anything that you need for satisfaction besides from God, can and will be used from satan".

I do not think ANYONE is borned a sinner. Crikey, this upsets me more than anything. IF GOD 'PUTS' a child into the wombs of his/her mother (someone said that we all came from God), than that child has been touched by purity and would have been purify by GOD Himself. How would that child be a born sinner? If we all came from God, then we should be free of sins!!!! What contradiction is this!!!?!?!?

yes, it seems unfair.. its just like how someone who has a disease passes it on to his or her children. It is unfair but it is true. the original sin is basically a disease that was passed down from adam and eve.

if people wanted to do their own push ups, why didn't Bro. Christianson let them?

because it was to show what Jesus Christ did for them.
Jesus Christ was the only pure person who did not commit a single sin, which is why the teacher didn't let others do their own pushups. there was a different version which was said that he was a football player and the only person who got an A in the class and was the only one qualified to do the push ups, i guess that story would have been better but i was unable to find it.

[sadolakced acid]

about doughnuts.


i see, that steve has forced people to be given doughnuts although they do not want them. your allegory is quite correct.

these people choose not to eat doughnuts, and do not ask for them. yet still, they are forced to have that on thier desk.


if you choose to give me a doughnut i do not want, it is your right. it is also my right to chuck that doughnut right back at you.

[Spirited Away]

if you choose to give me a doughnut i do not want, it is your right.  it is also my right to chuck that doughnut right back at you. 

Ah, I can't really respond on a full scale right now because I have to cram for a Cal final... must think math..... MATH Did I ever mentioned that I suck at math?

Anyway, I just wanted to give a short reply and say that I think some Christians forces us to be satanic by definition, therefore, I guess I have to say that I'm anti-Christ, like you now Mr Acid, by Danyo's definition of a satanic deed: "for christians, basically its anything that gets in the way of your relationship with HIM". Since I try to tell the guy I'm seeing about my non-Christian beliefs ALL the time to get him off my back about praying to God, I think I'm getting in his way of his relationship with God .

No offense Danyo, but that definition sucks. I understand where you're coming from and all, saying that people who gets in Christians' relatioship with God is just too much. Whatever the case, this debate has turn to a point where I'm discouraged at a number of my fellow Man, and that doesn't happen normally because I'm a humanist. If it is the case that Christians feel non-believers sway them from God, then why do Christians insist on speaking to non-believers/non-Christians?

Oh well, I guess goodness is no longer based on a lack of evil and virtues, but goodness is now based on the perspective of people from different beliefs... How disappointing this world has become.


MmMMMMmmMM Donuts....

Will make more sense in a later reply... But I have to go to sleep tonight with disappointment in my fellow Man. That's not a cool feeling.

[IIO__oII]

DONUTS

There was a boy by the name of Steve who was attending school in Utah.
Brother Christianson taught at this particular school. He had an
open-door policy and would take in any student that had been thrown out
of another class as long as they would abide by his rules. Steve had
been kicked out of his sixth period and no other teacher wanted him, so
he went into Brother Christianson's class. Steve was told that he could
not be late, so he arrived just seconds before the bell rang and he
would sit in the very back of the room. He would also be the first to
leave after the class was over. One day, Brother Christianson asked
Steve to stay after class so he could talk with him. After class, Bro.
Christianson pulled Steve aside and said, "You think you're pretty
tough, don't you?"

Steve's answer was, "Yeah, I do."

Then Brother Christianson asked, "How many push-ups can you do?"

Steve said, "I do about 200 every night."

"200? That's pretty good, Steve," Brother Christianson said. "Do you think you could do 300?"

Steve replied, "I don't know... I've never done 300 at a time."

"Do you think you could?" Again asked Brother Christianson.

"Well, I can try," said Steve.

"Can you do 300 in sets of 10? I need you to do 300 in sets of ten for
this to work. Can you do it? I need you to tell me you can do it,"
Brother Christianson said.

Steve said, "Well... I think I can... yeah, I can do it."

Brother Christianson said, "Good! I need you to do this on Friday."

Friday came and Steve got to class early and sat in the front of the
room. When class started, Brother Christianson pulled out a big box of
donuts. Now these weren't the normal kinds of donuts, they were the
extra fancy BIG kind, with cream centers and frosting swirls. Everyone
was pretty excited-it was Friday, the last class of the day, and they
were going to get an early start on the weekend.

Bro. Christianson went to the first girl in the first row and asked,
"Cynthia, do you want a donut?"

Cynthia said, "Yes."

Bro. Christianson then turned to Steve and asked, "Steve, would you do
ten push-ups so that Cynthia can have a donut?"

Steve said, "Sure," and jumped down from his desk to do a quick ten..

Then Steve again sat in his desk. Bro. Christianson put a donut on
Cynthia's desk. Bro. Christianson then went to Joe, the next person, and
asked, "Joe do you want a donut?"

Joe said, "Yes."

Bro. Christianson asked, "Steve would you do ten push-ups so Joe can
have a donut?" Steve did ten push-ups, Joe got a donut. And so it went,
down the first aisle, Steve did ten pushups for every person before they
got their donut. And down the second aisle, till Bro. Christianson came
to Scott. Scott was captain of the football team and center of the
basketball team. He was very popular and never lacking for female
companionship. When Bro. Christianson asked, "Scott do you want a
donut?" Scott's reply was, "Well, can I do my own pushups?"

Bro. Christianson said, "No, Steve has to do them."

Then Scott said, "Well, I don't want one then."

Bro. Christianson then turned to Steve and asked "Steve, would you do
ten pushups so Scott can have a donut he doesn't want?"

Steve started to do ten pushups. Scott said, "HEY! I said I didn't want
one!"

Bro. Christianson said, "Look, this is my classroom, my class, my desks,
and my donuts. Just leave it on the desk if you don't want it." And he
put a donut on Scott's desk.

Now by this time, Steve had begun to slow down a little. He just stayed
on the floor between sets because it took too much effort to be getting
up and down. You could start to see a little perspiration coming out
around his brow. Bro. Christianson started down the third row. Now the
students were beginning to get a little angry.

Bro. Christianson asked Jenny, "Jenny, do you want a donut?"

Jenny said, "No."

Then Bro. Christianson asked Steve, "Steve, would you do ten pushups so
Jenny can have a donut that she doesn't want?" Steve did ten, Jenny got
a donut.

By now, the students were beginning to say "No" and there were all these
uneaten donuts on the desks. Steve was also having to really put forth a
lot of effort to get these pushups done for each donut. There began to
be a small pool of sweat on the floor beneath his face, his arms and
brow were beginning to get red because of the physical effort involved.
Bro. Christianson asked Robert to watch Steve to make sure he did ten
pushups in a set because he couldn't bear to watch all of Steve's work
for all of those uneaten donuts. So Robert began to watch Steve closely.
Bro. Christianson started down the fourth row.

During his class, however, some students had wandered in and sat along
the heaters along the sides of the room. When Bro. Christianson realized
this; he did a quick count and saw 34 students in the room. He started
to worry if Steve would be able to make it.

Bro. Christianson went on to the next person and the next and the next.
Near the end of that row, Steve was really having a rough time. He was
taking a lot more time to complete each set.

Steve asked Bro. Christianson, "Do I have to make my nose touch on each one?"

Bro. Christianson thought for a moment, "Well, they're your pushups..
You can do them any way that you want." And Bro. Christianson went on.

A few moments later, Jason came to the room and was about to come in
when all the students yelled, "NO! Don't come in! Stay out!"

Jason didn't know what was going on. Steve picked up his head and said,
"No, let him come."

Bro. Christianson said, "You realize that if Jason comes in you will
have to do ten pushups for him."

Steve said, "Yes, let him come in."

Bro. Christianson said, "Okay, I'll let you get Jason's out of the way
right now. Jason, do you want a donut?"

"Yes."

"Steve, will you do ten pushups so that Jason can have a donut?" Steve
did ten pushups very slowly and with great effort. Jason, bewildered,
was handed a donut and sat down.

Bro. Christianson finished the fourth row, then started on those seated
on the heaters. Steve's arms were now shaking with each pushup in a
struggle to lift himself against the force of gravity. Sweat was
dropping off of his face and, by this time, there was not a dry eye in
the room.

The very last two girls in the room were cheerleaders and very popular.
Bro. Christianson went to Linda, the second to last, and asked, "Linda,
do you want a doughnut? Linda said, very sadly, "No, thank you."

Bro. Christianson asked Steve, "Steve, would you do ten pushups so that
Linda can have a donut she doesn't want?"

Grunting from the effort, Steve did ten very slow pushups for Linda..

Then Bro. Christianson turned to the last girl, Susan. "Susan, do you
want a donut?" Susan, with tears flowing down her face, asked, "Bro.
Christianson, can I help him?"

Bro. Christianson, with tears of his own, said, "No, he has to do it
alone, Steve, would you do ten pushups so Susan can have a donut?"

As Steve very slowly finished his last pushup, with the understanding
that he had accomplished all that was required of him, having done 350
pushups, his arms buckled beneath him and he fell to the floor.


Brother Christianson turned to the room and said.

"And so it was, that our Savior, Jesus Christ, plead to the Father,
"Into thy hands I commend my spirit." With the understanding that He had
done everything that was required of Him, he collapsed on the cross and
died. And like some of those in this room, many of us leave the gift on
the desk, uneaten

awwww that is a cute story. thanks for sharing.

[CrimsonArchangel]

Anyway, I just wanted to give a short reply and say that I think some Christians forces us to be satanic by definition, therefore, I guess I have to say that I'm anti-Christ, like you now Mr Acid, by Danyo's definition of a satanic deed: "for christians, basically its anything that gets in the way of your relationship with HIM". Since I try to tell the guy I'm seeing about my non-Christian beliefs ALL the time to get him off my back about praying to God, I think I'm getting in his way of his relationship with God .

I honestly think Danyo's definition was a bit... far fetched (for lack of a better word)... sorry, man. Just had to say that.

Lets see if I make sense. To christians anything that gets in the way of their relationship with God is a bad thing. But that doesn't necesarily mean its a Satanic thing. That is way too generalized. Let me put you as an example Fae... (forgive me if it offends you! I truly don't mean to.) You say you have a big math test. Lets say you're a Christian and because you really have to pass this test to pass the class, you forget to say your daily evening prayers because you were studying. That studying got in the way of your relationship but it was definatelly not a satanic thing (sorry, that was kinda funny). God can forgive you for skipping prayer once because you wanted to pass that test. It can be made up.
I think what Danyo is trying to say is that anything Satanic is what gets in the way of your relationship with God and it causes harm to you and others, even if its in ways you can not tell.
As for your boyfriend (is he? sorry, lol), if he really is a true christian, and he really loves you, he would understand that you maybe just need time to get your thoughts together, or want to make a decision for yourself without anyone pushing you.

Aw man... I hope that made sense... going back to school is not an easy and relaxed thing, hehe. Especially when its a new school...

[Spirited Away]

Lets see if I make sense. To christians anything that gets in the way of their relationship with God is a bad thing. But that doesn't necesarily mean its a Satanic thing. That is way too generalized. Let me put you as an example Fae... (forgive me if it offends you! I truly don't mean to.) You say you have a big math test. Lets say you're a Christian and because you really have to pass this test to pass the class, you forget to say your daily evening prayers because you were studying. That studying got in the way of your relationship but it was definatelly not a satanic thing (sorry, that was kinda funny). God can forgive you for skipping prayer once because you wanted to pass that test. It can be made up.
I think what Danyo is trying to say is that anything Satanic is what gets in the way of your relationship with God and it causes harm to you and others, even if its in ways you can not tell.

I think, I'm a bit more enlightened, but a question: if anything that gets in the way of their relationship with God is a bad thing, then wouldn't my math test be a bad thing because it's preventing me from praying to God last night? (That is if I'm Chrstian).

As for your boyfriend (is he? sorry, lol), if he really is a true christian, and he really loves you, he would understand that you maybe just need time to get your thoughts together, or want to make a decision for yourself without anyone pushing you.

No, we're only trying things out and he doesn't love me, but it's not working because he's too adament on God and I'm too adament on avoiding the subject all together .

Aw man... I hope that made sense... going back to school is not an easy and relaxed thing, hehe. Especially when its a new school...  

Pshh, you know you make sense , but whether or not I agree is another story. Anyway, what grade are you in and did you just moved to a new neighborhood? Good luck!

[CrimsonArchangel]

if anything that gets in the way of their relationship with God is a bad thing, then wouldn't my math test be a bad thing because it's preventing me from praying to God last night?

See? I knew I got things confused a bit, lol. What I meant is anything that prevents Christians from connecting with God all together and if they forget to ask for forgiveness then it becomes a bad thing. God forgives anything. (I will still stress this point till forever).
The math test was something temporary and its not like if the math test was going to make you become a serial killer or something. Math gets you further in life (how, I don't know. This comes from another math hater, hehe) and God encourages people to get further in life and learn things. And like I said, you can always pray twice the next night, .

No, we're only trying things out and he doesn't love me, but it's not working because he's too adament on God and I'm too adament on avoiding the subject all together . 

That must be annoying... I sort of know where you're coming from. This really can't relate that much, but in a way it does. I *hate* wearing dresses. You really have no idea. But today my mom decides to take me shopping as a b-day present. Here I am all happy thinking that I'm gonna get pants and other nice stuff but no. My mom did not let me get out of the store until I bought a dress. People that are too adamant on pushing what they believe on to others annoys me *greatly*.

Anyway, what grade are you in and did you just moved to a new neighborhood? Good luck!

Thanks! And no, I didn't just move. I'm going onto med school and the school I was in only had pre-med. LOL. So I had to transfer to another one.

[Spirited Away]

See? I knew I got things confused a bit, lol. What I meant is anything that prevents Christians from connecting with God all together and if they forget to ask for forgiveness then it becomes a bad thing. God forgives anything. (I will still stress this point till forever).
The math test was something temporary and its not like if the math test was going to make you become a serial killer or something. Math gets you further in life (how, I don't know. This comes from another math hater, hehe) and God encourages people to get further in life and learn things. And like I said, you can always pray twice the next night, .

Ah, I see.

But I guess, all in all, the fact that I do not believe in Jesus is what categorize me as non-Christian and that's where John and I don't see eye to eye which is a great disappointment to me because I actually like his personality aside from his great love for Christ, which forces him to say things that I'm not exactly thrilled to hear about.

On another note, I would be laughed at by friends and family if I wear a dress without some great reason; I've been a tomboy for most my life...

Thanks! And no, I didn't just move. I'm going onto med school and the school I was in only had pre-med.  LOL. So I had to transfer to another one.

What was I blabbering about? I didn't know you were a med major though. Well, good luck either way.

[CrimsonArchangel]

But I guess, all in all, the fact that I do not believe in Jesus is what categorize me as non-Christian and that's where John and I don't see eye to eye which is a great disappointment to me because I actually like his personality aside from his great love for Christ, which forces him to say things that I'm not exactly thrilled to hear about.

Hmmm... I see. Well, I hope things work out some way or another to what ever's best for both of you.

On another note, I would be laughed at by friends and family if I wear a dress without some great reason; I've been a tomboy for most my life...

You and me both, hehe. I used to play with planes instead of dolls and played soccer with the boys. Still do, but hey. Something similar happened to me once. I showed up to church wearing a pink dress and I had to remind everyone to breathe. That's how shocked they were. The thing with me is that I like dark clothes. And then I showed up with a summery, flowery pink dress and there goes everyone almost having a heart attack. Thankfully, I'm back to my dark, tomboyish clothes.

What was I blabbering about? I didn't know you were a med major though. Well, good luck either way.

Thanks. And... don't worry. Not very many people think I'm a med major. I'm just turning 18... (no bragging intended. Honestly! )

So are you saying that God will always be waiting? If He is indeed, someone who is forgiving and loving, meaning He can truly forgive anything, than I would believe in Him, because I will not be able to find any contradictions. However, the God that you, and several others have portrayed is TOO problematic.

This was from a while back. Sorry.
And yes, God does wait. Like you've been saying, he gave you free will. He will wait until and *if* you decide to believe and love him. And yes, God is forgiving and loving. I think I've mentioned that before.

[princess2113]

I think, I'm a bit more enlightened, but a question: if anything that gets in the way of their relationship with God is a bad thing, then wouldn't my math test be a bad thing because it's preventing me from praying to God last night? (That is if I'm Chrstian).

no...i pray abt the math test...
and ur icon is cute

[sadolakced acid]

i am anti-christ. not anti-christian tho.

i am against the idea that christ is god. that is what makes me anti-christ

not because i am not christian.

satanic? no. there is no good definition of what is anti-christ or satanic. it's opinion.

as for me, i am anti-christ but not satanic.

[CrimsonArchangel]

i am against the idea that christ is god. that is what makes me anti-christ

Why?

[Spirited Away]

erg. baptized when  you were a baby doesn't mean anything. whoever told you that was wrong. and by children i meant elementary.

Woa, this was a response from a while back, but I hadn't seen it until now... so:


I have asked what denomination you belong to. Please answer. It's incredibly childish to assume that your beliefs are the only ones that matter... Do you know what those kind of people are called? Immature.

surely, the bible doesn't talk about santa claus nor easter bunnies so it's not Christians who commercialized those holidays. it's the companies that's sucking out money from people, not the Christians... so it's not our fault.

HAHAHAHAHAH, that's a good laugh. If you hadn't noticed from the "You can't have it both ways!" topic in this forum, it is said that Christians celebrate Christmas. I have also said that Christians advertised their Churches on TV and there is a Chanel that is dedicated to Christians. If those people who claim to be Christians, are NOT Christians to you, then what are they?

Be careful how you answer because you can offend other Christians.

oh and the "very reliable source"? please don't give me that crap. you don't know what reliable is cause you yourself are not a Chrisitan. as far as i'm concerned some BUM on the street can tell you that he/she's a Christian and tell you bunch of crap.

I may not be a Christian, but John (my source) is very much Christian and he wants to become a Minister. I work at the YMCA, and if you know your Christian organizations, then you'd know that the Y is a very Christian oriented community. And I have been arguing on this God topic since God (1) topic was open and I learned a thing or two from other Christians (who are more respectable than you). Pssshhhh, don't assume I'm clueless about Christianity, child, that's embarrassing.

[sadolakced acid]

may the anti-christ one day triump against opression.

and may the christians one day accept all who do not belive as they do.

as for me- i must leave, and on the day of the final battle, i will be with whom i belive in. and i will be where i want to.