the bible...fairytales? Options

[cori-catastrophe]

Wow. Just. Wow. No one here has actually read and understood.

i have. but i figured i'd just let you fight your own battle considering you're doing a very good job of it.
they read. they just hate it when they can't think of anything else to make themselve's sound smart and when they are proven wrong.

oh yes. because humans can for over 900 years.

humans can.....do what for over nine hundred years?

[kimmytree]

err... you're wrong. sorry. Most of the world's population is christian. Jesus-worshipping christians. If they didn't, they'd just be jews

Really? I guess I should have looked that up then.

How is everyone who believes in God but not Jesus Jewish? I didnt mean it like that. I meant belives in God, as in a theist. I've always thought Judaism was about alot more than just God.

[xoxo_proud]

humans can.....do what for over nine hundred years?

Live

Wow. Just. Wow. No one here has actually read and understood.

They understand what you're saying. They wouldn't be replying to your statements and opinions if they didn't comprehend what you were saying.

So... you're saying that anything sexist in the Old Testament isnt worth listing? If you're going to ignore it, then I wont waste my time. But it's obviously there.

So since he's not perfect, then he's flawed in one way or another...? Wouldnt he have known that we would screw things up then? After all, he's supposedly all knowing.

I'm not trying to go against him at all. I believe in God. How many times do I have to repeat that? Okay... let me get this straight. Since I dont believe the exact way you do, I'm being blasphemous towards God? Ahhhh hahah. I could just as easily say that you're being blasphemous.

Oh really? I dont really care what he's been telling you, but how does he tell you? In what means does he communicate?

So God let my grandmother SUFFER for two freaking years, just to test me? Even before she got sick, I was a Christian. And I was even a Christian for two years after she died. I didnt blame God then. So how was I holding a grudge, especially back then? How the hell do you suggest someone pray then?

Uhhh, I'm aware of that. NO ONE is perfect. That's why I used the quotations around "perfect". I was living the way a Christian should live. Just because I later lost my faith, doesnt mean that I didnt have it at one point.


Okay, so God knew we were going to sin in the first place, correct? Why the hell didnt he stop the serpent from tempting Adam and Eve? He easily could have. Or better yet, why the heck did he create the serpent?

Well, thanks for the lesson, but I was already aware of most of that. So in todays time, all those who dont believe in Jesus, are suposedly damned. So ninety something percent of the world is going to burn in a eternal hell? Thats sick if you actually believe that.

So God's lying when he says "For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened" (Matthew 7:8)??? He obviously is... considering he doesnt answer most prayers, even prayers made by his most faithful followers.

If what you say is correct, then Hazardous must be hearing things.

Dude, you aren't reading what I'm typing. I just said, like in my post earlier; that God gives us the freedom to sin or not. That's why he let everything happen.

Podomaht : What part, in kimmytree's post, are you referring to? It seems to me like kimmytree is reading what you're typing. I seriously hope no one in this debate replies to another post without fully reading it.

And Santa Claus, The Tooth Fairy, and The Flying Spaghetti Monster!

Praise FSM!

[kimmytree]

^ Thanks Caitlin.

i have. but i figured i'd just let you fight your own battle considering you're doing a very good job of it.
they read. they just hate it when they can't think of anything else to make themselve's sound smart and when they are proven wrong.

No, we are responding. You guys just keep repeating and arguing the same thing. I understand what the Bible says. All you've been doing is telling us what it says, and quoting verses. You started the whole thread, and wanted to debate how the Bible isnt just "fairytales", but you're not proving that the Bible is really the word of God. Instead of throwing out verses, you need to back yourself up with evidence.

When have we been proven wrong?

humans can.....do what for over nine hundred years?

I think she meant how according to the Bible, people supposedly lived to be hundreds of years old.

[xoxo_proud]

^ Welcome =]

i have. but i figured i'd just let you fight your own battle considering you're doing a very good job of it.
they read. they just hate it when they can't think of anything else to make themselve's sound smart and when they are proven wrong.

I don't know if either side has proven the other wrong...

[Mulder]

How is everyone who believes in God but not Jesus Jewish? I didnt mean it like that. I meant belives in God, as in a theist. I've always thought Judaism was about alot more than just God.

christianity (basically) = judiasm + jesus.
Jesus was a jew, remember?

and all that was meant by "900 years" is that God/Jesus (i don't know the story - I'm jewish!) found him deserving and granted him a longer life. not actually 900 years.

[kimmytree]

christianity (basically) = judiasm + jesus.
Jesus was a jew, remember?

I get that, but isnt there more to Judaism, besides God? Sorry, I'm confused. Jews believe in the Old Testament. But what about people who believe in God, but not the Old Testament? Someone like that can't be Jewish.

[Mulder]

But christians believe in the new testament and the old testament. You said that not that many people believed in Jesus.

So...

Judiasm = Old Testament + ONE god + other stuff that really doesn't matter in the great scheme of things (and to my point)

Christianity = Judiasm + New Testament + Jesus + other stuff that also doesn't matter

Your point was that not that many people believed in Jesus. So, if you remove Jesus from the equation, you also have to remove the New Testament, which gives you...

JEWS.

ok, now I'm just being silly. sorry.

[cori-catastrophe]

^ Thanks Caitlin.
[/size]
No, we are responding. You guys just keep repeating and arguing the same thing. I understand what the Bible says. All you've been doing is telling us what it says, and quoting verses. You started the whole thread, and wanted to debate how the Bible isnt just "fairytales", but you're not proving that the Bible is really the word of God. Instead of throwing out verses, you need to back yourself up with evidence.

When have we been proven wrong?

I think she meant how according to the Bible, people supposedly lived to be hundreds of years old.

[size=1]you asked for proof. i gave you evidence out of the bible, rather than just saying a statement like "Hello, evolution." like other people. i don't find that to be proof, nor a good way to back yourself up. i started the thread to debate and see other people's opinions on this. here. maybe this will help you understand the meaning of debate.

–noun 1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints: a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
3. deliberation; consideration.
4. Archaic. strife; contention.
–verb (used without object) 5. to engage in argument or discussion, as in a legislative or public assembly: When we left, the men were still debating.
6. to participate in a formal debate.
7. to deliberate; consider: I debated with myself whether to tell them the truth or not.
8. Obsolete. to fight; quarrel.
–verb (used with object) 9. to argue or discuss (a question, issue, or the like), as in a legislative or public assembly: They debated the matter of free will.
10. to dispute or disagree about: The homeowners debated the value of a road on the island.
11. to engage in formal argumentation or disputation with (another person, group, etc.): Jones will debate Smith. Harvard will debate Princeton.
12. to deliberate upon; consider: He debated his decision in the matter.
13. Archaic. to contend for or over.

[misoshiru]

So you find scientific proof of evolution completely false? Where's your evidence outside the bible. All I see is your quoting of Bible verses. But if I don't believe in the Bible, how are you supposed to prove it to me outside of using the bible?


My bad, I meant to type that "because humans can live for over 900 years".

[*onewaysalcha*]

Hume's Fork...

[Mulder]

Hume's Fork...

...explain?

[kimmytree]

you asked for proof. i gave you evidence out of the bible, rather than just saying a statement like "Hello, evolution." like other people. i don't find that to be proof, nor a good way to back yourself up. i started the thread to debate and see other people's opinions on this. here. maybe this will help you understand the meaning of debate.

Are you freaking kidding me? Throwing out Bible verses may prove what the Bible actually says, but it doesnt prove that it is actually the word of God. I meant proof as in proving that the stories (such as the flood, jesus, etc) really happened, and that the Bible is really as old as some people claim it is. I mean outside of what's actually in it, can you actually prove that it's actually the word of God, and prove that things really happened? You havent yet. That's what we've been trying to ask/tell you all along. You created the thread... backing up your faith with verses isnt proving anything. This isnt a evolution/athiest/agnostic/whatever religon thread, so there's no need to argue anything other than if the Bible is fairytales or not. Can we get back on topic? Please?

No need to inform me on how to debate, I think you are the one who is confused. I personally dont believe in Evolution, so stop categorizing me that way. I dont think we as humans will ever be able to fully comprehend how we were created. I believe God created everything, but definately not the way the Bible explains it. This isnt the appropriate place to debate Evolution anyways.

[xoxo_proud]

you asked for proof. i gave you evidence out of the bible, rather than just saying a statement like "Hello, evolution." like other people. i don't find that to be proof, nor a good way to back yourself up. i started the thread to debate and see other people's opinions on this. here. maybe this will help you understand the meaning of debate

But the Bible can't be used as evidence. No one has proven that the Bible is the word of God or that events in the Bible truely happened. Therfore, it isn't factual.

[*Podomaht*]

But the Bible can't be used as evidence. No one has proven that the Bible is the word of God or that events in the Bible truely happened. Therfore, it isn't factual.

Wow. Just. Wow. Ignorance.

[Ington]

so in the old testament, jews were automatically saved and promised eternal life? that doesn't make much sence. jesus was jewish though, correct?
so they didn't believe that he was the messiah so he didn't have the power to change the law?

there are no jews who believe in the new testament, even just believing them to be stories?
secular jews aren't included in the old testament? i didn't know that.

he is all through history, as well as all the historical figures that people believe in.

Just to say this, though its late, you don't say "I'm a Jew" and turn into a Jew. Judaism is the hardest religion to convert to, and the hardest to uphold. Its more worship and suffering than fun and games.

Also, since when did Jesus update the Bible? Jesus never wrote one thing down, his followers did, and decades after his death. He in NO WAY, SHAPE, or FORM rewrote the bible, and did not write any of the New Testament. He is one of the few religious leaders who has never left behind religious texts. Jesus was a Jew to his death. A Jew like every other, not an 'updated' one.

Wow. Just. Wow. Ignorance.

I think you're quite ignorant yourself. It is common sense to not use a disputed text to debate the validity of itself, and there's nothing ignorant about not trusting something as controversial as this. Non-religious documentation from Mesopotamia, Egypt, the Roman Empire, anything of the sort could act as evidence, however, you can't sway the mind of someone who doesn't believe in the Bible with biblical texts or events.

Its like saying, "My dog is black, but instead of showing you a picture of it, I'm going to show you a note from my friend (who you don't know) saying that my dog is, in fact, black. You can trust it."

[xoxo_proud]

Wow. Just. Wow. Ignorance.

What? How is that ignorance? No one has ever proven that the Bible is the word of God, correct? And I'm sorry. I didn't mean to imply that to every event in the Bible. I know that some events in the Bible really happened. That was my mistake.

But, still, how am I being ignorant?

[kimmytree]

^ What do you believe is accurate in the Bible then? o_O

[Ington]

Many events from the Bible are proven in outside sources. For example, Egyptian hieroglyphics verified that Jews were slaves in, and later left, Egypt.

Also, due to the fact that no one realized that Jesus never wrote any type of religious texts, all of your arguments involving Jesus 'updating the bible' are discredited, along with any other arguments you made about things you think you know. You're some kind of hypocrites.

[xoxo_proud]

I just meant that the Bible refers to some historical events that did happen.

Many events from the Bible are proven in outside sources. For example, Egyptian hieroglyphics verified that Jews were slaves in, and later left, Egypt.

Yes. Those events have evidence to back them up (other than the Bible). But other events that happen in the Bible, such as the Noah's Ark, do not.

[kimmytree]

Many events from the Bible are proven in outside sources. For example, Egyptian hieroglyphics verified that Jews were slaves in, and later left, Egypt.

But wouldnt most educated people at the time the Bible was written have known about the Jews being slaves?

Also, due to the fact that no one realized that Jesus never wrote any type of religious texts, all of your arguments involving Jesus 'updating the bible' are discredited, along with any other arguments you made about things you think you know. You're some kind of hypocrites.

Well obviously Jesus himself didnt write the New Testament... I said God's law changed by it being written. God supposedly influenced and "spoke" to the writers (hence the saying that the Bible's the word of God).

[xoxo_proud]

But wouldnt most educated people at the time the Bible was written have known about the Jews being slaves?

I don't understand what you're asking

[Ington]

I just meant that the Bible refers to some historical events that did happen.
Yes. Those events have evidence to back them up (other than the Bible). But other events that happen in the Bible, such as the Noah's Ark, do not.

Noah's Ark, along with its counterpart in The Epic of Gilgamesh, attempt to explain a natural phenomenon that was previously unheard of. This was, in fact, a horrific flood that devastated many areas.

But wouldnt most educated people at the time the Bible was written have known about the Jews being slaves?

Well obviously Jesus himself didnt write the New Testament... I said God's law changed by it being written. God supposedly influenced and "spoke" to the writers (hence the saying that the Bible's the word of God).

Firstly, they didn't have cars and TV's and newspapers. The educated people you speak of who knew the Jews were slaves were the ones who came into contact with them. Second, what would it matter whether or not they knew the Jews were slaves, it wasn't being hid or anything. The fact that there were people who knew just strengthens the validity of it.

Also, you said Jesus. By the Trinity, Jesus is not necessarily God, but God is Jesus. So if you say Jesus wrote the Bible, you are saying that Jesus the man wrote the Bible. If you say God wrote the Bible, it means that Jesus the man wrote it, or God the Spirit relayed it. Different things.

[kimmytree]

Noah's Ark, along with its counterpart in The Epic of Gilgamesh, attempt to explain a natural phenomenon that was previously unheard of. This was, in fact, a horrific flood that devastated many areas.

Firstly, they didn't have cars and TV's and newspapers. The educated people you speak of who knew the Jews were slaves were the ones who came into contact with them. Second, what would it matter whether or not they knew the Jews were slaves, it wasn't being hid or anything. The fact that there were people who knew just strengthens the validity of it.

Also, you said Jesus. By the Trinity, Jesus is not necessarily God, but God is Jesus. So if you say Jesus wrote the Bible, you are saying that Jesus the man wrote the Bible. If you say God wrote the Bible, it means that Jesus the man wrote it, or God the Spirit relayed it. Different things.

Maybe by word of mouth? In many cultures / civilizations, events were told almost like stories. Then the stories were passed down through generations. Hmm, I guess either one is possible.

I'm aware of that. I never said Jesus wrote the Bible. I've stated that the Bible is supposedly the word of God, but that's it.

[Ington]

My apologies, I just checked and saw you didn't use Jesus. I just assumed you did after reading hazardous' posts and after seeing you defend the fact that you didn't use 'Jesus' so enthusiastically. Hazardous, in any case, should not be allowed to debate.