Denominational Problems, How does yours stand up? Options

[Kontroll]

Not all protestants. I guess I am sorta considered a Protestant cause that is a form of Christianity but I am falling more in the catagory of Pentacostal.

Demonic influences. Holy spirit and tongues are both brought up in the Bible, so are you denying God's word about tongues? I think they are FAR from demonic. I have a Question, are you a Christian? If so, what Faith are you? Because I don't know one Christian that believes that tongues is demonic. Heres some verses from the Bible:

Acts 2:4 - All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them.

Acts 10:46 - For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

1 Corinthians 14:39 - Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

If the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues are demonic why would God say to speak in tongues and not deny it. Did you know that denying the holy ghost is blasphemy and is unforgivable by God?

I KNOW ITS LONG. BUT ITS INFORMATIVE.

NOTE: It's useful to know that the two main sects of Christianity are Catholic and Protestant. When I say Protestant I mean any denomination that falls under that category.

Now, onto the fun stuff.

I'm not saying in any way, shape or form that the Pentecostal denomination is incorrect. They believe that you must be saved by the grace of our Lord Jesus to enter into Heaven.

We both have that in common.

Now, what in my faith that is present in yours is the topic of charismatic beliefs. Such as what was discussed earlier.

http://www.bible-truth.org/tongues.htm
I will note what I am citing from outside sources.
- - -
For the many Charismatics, their prayer life is one of praying in ecstatic speech without their understanding. Prayer is thus reduced to an emotional experience instead of pouring out their hearts in thanksgiving and presenting their petitions and supplications to the Lord. Those "praying in tongues" do not even know what they are praying. The services of the tongues movement is completely opposite of what the Bible teaches concerning worshiping God. They come to "receive" a blessing from the service, instead of coming to lift up other believers and worship the Lord as the Bible teaches. The "worship" of these churches is little more than a form of entertainment with an emotional experience, not unlike what happens in a musical rock concert.

John 4:24 clearly states, those that worship the Lord must do so in "spirit and truth."

How Does the Modern Gift of Tongues Compare to the Examples in the Book of Acts?

1. Missing in the modern practice of tongues is the supernatural acts of God as the event being accompanied by the sound as of a mighty rushing wind which fills the whole house and the appearance of cloven tongues of fire.

2. The modern gift of tongues is used as a so called "prayer language." There is only one verse in the Bible that seems to associate tongues with prayer. In 1 Corinthians 14:14-15, Paul says, "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is the result then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding. I will sing with the spirit and will also sing with understanding. Otherwise, if you bless with the spirit how will he who occupies the place of the uninformed say, `Amen' at your giving of thanks, since he does not understand what you say? You indeed give thanks well, but the other is not edified. I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all, yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue."

Paul goes on to say, "Brethren, do not be children in understanding: however, in malice babes, but in understanding be mature." Clearly Paul is condemning the misuse of tongues among the Corinthians as a prayer language. His rebuke is plain and establishes clearly that the gift of biblical tongues was not a prayer language. I says he would rather speak five word with his understanding that ten thousand words in tongues. Could God be make it any clearer that tongues is not given as a prayer language.

Is tongues a valid prayer language? The answer is no. At Pentecost it was a sign to unbelieving Jews, in which they heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ. In Acts 2:11, it says that those present testified, ". . . we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God." (Acts 2:11) Paul in 1 Corinthians 14: 14, is correcting the error of using tongues as prayer language. He says, in verse 15, that he would pray and sing both with his understanding, because to do otherwise is unfruitful. Plainly Paul is condemning those that had perverted the gift of tongues by teaching it was a prayer language. Earlier in verse 2, he concluded that when men spoke in tongues no one understood but God. He points out the singing and praying in a language that no one else knows does not help that person by teaching those present the truth. This is always in view in the Biblical and correct use of tongues. Paul emphatically states that tongues is not for believers, but a sign for unbelievers who hear the Gospel truth in their own language. The whole thesis of Paul addressing "tongues" in 1 Corinthians is that no one should be speaking tongues in the presence of others hearers who could not understand what was being said. (1 Cor. 14:33-40)

Using tongues as prayer language clearly violates 1 Corinthians 14:22, and this condemns the modern tongues movement as false, because it teaches in error it is special prayer language.

I believe in a movement called Cessationism. "In Christian theology, cessationism is the view that the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as tongues, prophecy and healing, ceased being practiced early on in Church history.

Cessationists usually believe the miraculous gifts were given only for the foundation of the Church, during the time between the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, c. AD 33 (see Acts 2) and the fulfillment of God's purposes in history, usually identified as either the completion of the last book of the New Testament or the death of the last Apostle. Its counterpart is continuationism."

Words in quotes are from www.wikipedia.org

That's my two cents.

[sweetangel2128]

I KNOW ITS LONG. BUT ITS INFORMATIVE.

NOTE: It's useful to know that the two main sects of Christianity are Catholic and Protestant. When I say Protestant I mean any denomination that falls under that category.

Now, onto the fun stuff.

I'm not saying in any way, shape or form that the Pentecostal denomination is incorrect. They believe that you must be saved by the grace of our Lord Jesus to enter into Heaven.

We both have that in common.

Now, what in my faith that is present in yours is the topic of charismatic beliefs. Such as what was discussed earlier.
John 4:24 clearly states, those that worship the Lord must do so in "spirit and truth."
I believe in a movement called Cessationism. "In Christian theology, cessationism is the view that the charismatic gifts of the Holy Spirit, such as tongues, prophecy and healing, ceased being practiced early on in Church history.

Cessationists usually believe the miraculous gifts were given only for the foundation of the Church, during the time between the coming of the Holy Spirit on Pentecost, c. AD 33 (see Acts 2) and the fulfillment of God's purposes in history, usually identified as either the completion of the last book of the New Testament or the death of the last Apostle. Its counterpart is continuationism."

Words in quotes are from www.wikipedia.org

That's my two cents.

LOL what's this? Why a new topic?

[Kontroll]

Cause what we were talking about had nothing to do with Evolution.

[sweetangel2128]

Cause what we were talking about had nothing to do with Evolution.

Makes sense and good idea

[Kontroll]

Way to kill the debate.

Just messin'. But yeah, you should counter my point.

[*Uronacid*]

I'm a non-denominational Christian I read the bible and interpret it for myself... I think you are wrong. You're going to hell Jake. I pray for you every night...

[Kontroll]

I'm a non-denominational Christian I read the bible and interpret it for myself... I think you are wrong. You're going to hell Jake. I pray for you every night...

Non denominational members are just scared to stick up for a side, so they sit on the fence and wait to see who comes out the victor. Therefore, I am not going to Hell, but ipso facto you would be condemned to Hell.

[*Uronacid*]

Non denominational members are just scared to stick up for a side, so they sit on the fence and wait to see who comes out the victor. Therefore, I am not going to Hell, but ipso facto you would be condemned to Hell.

I don't think that any particular denomination is any more right or wrong than I am honestly... There are certain things that are essential in the Christian faith, and there are certain things that are subject to interpretation.

[Kontroll]

I don't think that any particular denomination is any more right or wrong than I am honestly... There are certain things that are essential in the Christian faith, and there are certain things that are subject to interpretation.

Great I think you just made it possible now to close this topic without any problems.

[sweetangel2128]

I'm a non-denominational Christian I read the bible and interpret it for myself.

The Bible is not to interpret for yourself but understand what God truly wants. I actually was amazed you were even Christian since you don't believe that Jesus is God. I am also from a non-denominational faith but will soon be attending a pentacostal church.

[Kontroll]

The Bible is not to interpret for yourself but understand what God truly wants. I actually was amazed you were even Christian since you don't believe that Jesus is God. I am also from a non-denominational faith but will soon be attending a pentacostal church.

Ugh. Yes the Bible is for us to interpret it for ourselves. Jesus told us not to listen to any other man without examining it for ourselves. So, he does want it to interpret how we feel it should be with the correct research and whatnot.

He does believe that Jesus is God, he's just saying that he doesn't believe that Jesus knows everything.

[sweetangel2128]

Ugh. Yes the Bible is for us to interpret it for ourselves. Jesus told us not to listen to any other man without examining it for ourselves. So, he does want it to interpret how we feel it should be with the correct research and whatnot.

He does believe that Jesus is God, he's just saying that he doesn't believe that Jesus knows everything.

No, cause he said Jesus isn't God. I read the very line unless he changed his mind. No, God wants us to read his Word and learn what he's trying to say not to put our own interpretation of what we "think" he means or change his words around. Yes, he does want us to examine it ourselves, but he's talking about interpretating it to his own meaning basically and that's something that God doesn't want. What he wants as I said before, is for us to understand what he means not interpret the way we want it to mean.

[Kontroll]

No, cause he said Jesus isn't God. I read the very line unless he changed his mind. No, God wants us to read his Word and learn what he's trying to say not to put our own interpretation of what we "think" he means or change his words around. Yes, he does want us to examine it ourselves, but he's talking about interpretating it to his own meaning basically and that's something that God doesn't want. What he wants as I said before, is for us to understand what he means not interpret the way we want it to mean.

I've got a question. Why do you think there are so many denominations? Because they all interpret it there own way. Are they wrong? No. As long as they believe in the key principles that God intended for us to follow. Yes, something you can't interpret. They are doctrine or dogma that we follow. Other things God tells us to interpret for ourselves. If we listen to a person and say 'Well, that sounds good, I'll believe in that.' That's following the faith blindly. God wants us to find out what He's telling us and examine it.

The reason we interpret it for ourselves is because no one is the same. If we had one denomination, a certain set of unchangeable principles, we all wouldn't be able to follow it.

God allows us to do this because we are all unique. What is good for one person is not necessarily so for another.

If you look at Martin Luther... He broke off from the Catholic church, and said that you can only be accepted into Heaven by faith in Jesus. So, was Martin Luther wrong for examining and interpreting the Bible as he saw fit? Not at all.

[sweetangel2128]

I've got a question. Why do you think there are so many denominations? Because they all interpret it there own way. Are they wrong? No. As long as they believe in the key principles that God intended for us to follow. Yes, something you can't interpret. They are doctrine or dogma that we follow. Other things God tells us to interpret for ourselves. If we listen to a person and say 'Well, that sounds good, I'll believe in that.' That's following the faith blindly. God wants us to find out what He's telling us and examine it.

The reason we interpret it for ourselves is because no one is the same. If we had one denomination, a certain set of unchangeable principles, we all wouldn't be able to follow it.

God allows us to do this because we are all unique. What is good for one person is not necessarily so for another.

If you look at Martin Luther... He broke off from the Catholic church, and said that you can only be accepted into Heaven by faith in Jesus. So, was Martin Luther wrong for examining and interpreting the Bible as he saw fit? Not at all.

True that makes sense, I am just saying you can't interpret the Bible to fit your likeness, meaning changing the true meaning around..ect...

As for different denominations, because all of them have different beliefs but all believe in the same God.

[Kontroll]

True that makes sense, I am just saying you can't interpret the Bible to fit your likeness, meaning changing the true meaning around..ect...

As for different denominations, because all of them have different beliefs but all believe in the same God.

Yes, you can interpret. That's the point of the Bible. Like I said...there are certain things you cannot change. But others, which is why there are denominations, you can. Such as baptism. There's two types of baptism... Immersion and sprinkling. Do you think that either is right or wrong? No. It's just how the person feels they should do it. You see what I'm getting at? But salvation is through Jesus Christ. It's all the same, with different outer changes.

[sweetangel2128]

Yes, you can interpret. That's the point of the Bible. Like I said...there are certain things you cannot change. But others, which is why there are denominations, you can. Such as baptism. There's two types of baptism... Immersion and sprinkling. Do you think that either is right or wrong? No. It's just how the person feels they should do it. You see what I'm getting at? But salvation is through Jesus Christ. It's all the same, with different outer changes.

I never said interpretation was wrong, I said interpretating it to your likeness is not right and not the word of God. Meaning you can't change things around the way you feel they should be said..ect...aka changing the word of God.

You can't change ANYTHING in the Bible, it's the word of God. The people that have changed things have changed them to there likess but just because they have made those changes doesn't make it right in the eyes of God.

As for baptism, sprinkling and immersion are no different because you are still being baptised so that change is okay but a lot of churches teach that baptism isn't mandatory to get to Heaven which is false teachings because in the Bible it says in order to see the Kingdom of God meaning Heaven you must be baptised of water and of the holy spirit. Or for example the Catholic beliefs...yes they believe in God but they believe that when you sin you pray to a preacher, they don't pray to Jesus which is who you are SUPPOSED to pray to you. I am not saying I'm against Catholics I have some friends who are Catholics but I think what they are doing is wrong in that aspect because it doesn't say in the Bible to not ask a preacher for forgiveness but God for forgiveness, another person can't forgive you of your sins, only God can do that.

Salvation is through Jesus Christ and Baptism...but I believe there are exceptions like a car crash or something like that.

[Kontroll]

I never said interpretation was wrong, I said interpretating it to your likeness is not right and not the word of God. Meaning you can't change things around the way you feel they should be said..ect...aka changing the word of God.

You can't change ANYTHING in the Bible, it's the word of God. The people that have changed things have changed them to there likess but just because they have made those changes doesn't make it right in the eyes of God.

As for baptism, sprinkling and immersion are no different because you are still being baptised so that change is okay but a lot of churches teach that baptism isn't mandatory to get to Heaven which is false teachings because in the Bible it says in order to see the Kingdom of God meaning Heaven you must be baptised of water and of the holy spirit. Or for example the Catholic beliefs...yes they believe in God but they believe that when you sin you pray to a preacher, they don't pray to Jesus which is who you are SUPPOSED to pray to you. I am not saying I'm against Catholics I have some friends who are Catholics but I think what they are doing is wrong in that aspect because it doesn't say in the Bible to not ask a preacher for forgiveness but God for forgiveness, another person can't forgive you of your sins, only God can do that.

Salvation is through Jesus Christ and Baptism...but I believe there are exceptions like a car crash or something like that.

Go read some books.

Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

It talks about being saved and baptized to enter into the kingdom of heaven. But, also at the end it says that 'who ever doesn't believe will be condemned. Allowing grace for those unbaptized.

Baptizm is a representation of washing away our sins. I believe that it does, but to find salvation from baptizm? No. I feel that it is a step in a Christian's life that he should partake of, but it's not necessary to become a Christian. You become a Christian when you are saved by the grace of Jesus through faith.

The catholics don't pray to a preacher. They confess their sins to them. The Bible tells us to do that. Confess our sins to each other.

Like I said. Go read a book.

[Simba]

The different Christian denominations are a perfect example of how people get so caught up in the small details of things and forget about the essential teachings.

You can't change ANYTHING in the Bible, it's the word of God.

Are you referring to Revelations where the author says that no one should add or subtract from anything? Or maybe something else? Sorry, it slips my mind right now.

[sweetangel2128]

Go read some books.

Mark 16:16, "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."

It talks about being saved and baptized to enter into the kingdom of heaven. But, also at the end it says that 'who ever doesn't believe will be condemned. Allowing grace for those unbaptized.

Baptizm is a representation of washing away our sins. I believe that it does, but to find salvation from baptizm? No. I feel that it is a step in a Christian's life that he should partake of, but it's not necessary to become a Christian. You become a Christian when you are saved by the grace of Jesus through faith.

The catholics don't pray to a preacher. They confess their sins to them. The Bible tells us to do that. Confess our sins to each other.

Like I said. Go read a book.

That's what I meant and it says to confess your sins to God not a preacher. Which is why I am not a Catholic, but I don't judge you if you are.

I have already read the Bible and I know what it says, I think I'll stick to that. As I said before, the Bible says that you must accept Jesus and also be baptised of water and of the spirit to see Heaven. Now, if your in a car crash where you were not able to get baptised but still accepted Jesus, I think there are exceptions. But, if you've had the option to be baptised and turned it down, that's another story. Yes, baptism is the washing of sins but it is also more than that.

The different Christian denominations are a perfect example of how people get so caught up in the small details of things and forget about the essential teachings.
Are you referring to Revelations where the author says that no one should add or subtract from anything? Or maybe something else? Sorry, it slips my mind right now.

No, I am not referring to that. I am referring to it in general. To read God's word and then change it to your liking is wrong and not of God, therefore not God's word. We need to go by what the Bible says because it's "God's" word and not our own.

[Kontroll]

That's what I meant and it says to confess your sins to God not a preacher. Which is why I am not a Catholic, but I don't judge you if you are.

I have already read the Bible and I know what it says, I think I'll stick to that. As I said before, the Bible says that you must accept Jesus and also be baptised of water and of the spirit to see Heaven. Now, if your in a car crash where you were not able to get baptised but still accepted Jesus, I think there are exceptions. But, if you've had the option to be baptised and turned it down, that's another story. Yes, baptism is the washing of sins but it is also more than that.
No, I am not referring to that. I am referring to it in general. To read God's word and then change it to your liking is wrong and not of God, therefore not God's word. We need to go by what the Bible says because it's "God's" word and not our own.

Well, then if you're in a car crash and God makes an exception, then those that aren't readily available to water such as those that live in the desert must be exempt too. There are no exceptions.

[sweetangel2128]

Well, then if you're in a car crash and God makes an exception, then those that aren't readily available to water such as those that live in the desert must be exempt too. There are no exceptions.

You can't really judge that, since you are not God..only God can judge that.

[*Uronacid*]

The Bible is not to interpret for yourself but understand what God truly wants. I actually was amazed you were even Christian since you don't believe that Jesus is God. I am also from a non-denominational faith but will soon be attending a pentacostal church.

Heath21, you have to understand that not everything is explained in the Bible. Different people interpret God differently. One interpretation is not any more right than another because no-one can truly know for a fact which one is correct (There are obviously exceptions... crazy people).

Denominations consist of people who agree on an interpretation of the Bible. Just because more people in a certain group interpret the Bible one way then another group interprets the bible in another way doesn't mean that the member s of the minority are wrong. Do you honestly think that I would try to interpret the Bible in a way I thought God didn't want me to interpret it? No, why would I do that? I believe that there are essentials to being a Christian, and some of those essentials include:

• Loving God
• Believing that his son bore the burden of our sins on the cross to give us the ability to enter into Heaven.

[*.fire*]

Okay I'm in a non-demoninational pentacostal Church(well I just came back from church an hour ago), If I interpreted your post correctly your saying that the Bible contradicts itself in the use of Tongues, tongues are not for the masses, It does not edify other of the Church, It edifies you, it strengthens you and strenthens the relationship between you and Jesus through the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:2
For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.
1 Corinthians 14:4
A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

The catholics don't pray to a preacher. They confess their sins to them. The Bible tells us to do that. Confess our sins to each other.

The Bible says that we can also confess our sins to God Himself.

Also with all this denomination talk has got me worried as

Luke11:17
Any Kingdom at was with itself is doomed. A divided home is alos doomed

I think People get Accepting and Agreeing confused, we dont have to agree with one another in little aspects but what we should do it accept one another.

yeah. hope that made sense.

To those in this thread

I actually have a newfound respect for you all, since all of you have the conviction to spread God's word despite others attesting to your beliefs and conflicts in the Christianity threads I read, I've been acutally struggling to be more outspoken about Christianity and defending the truth for a while.

[sweetangel2128]

Heath21, you have to understand that not everything is explained in the Bible. Different people interpret God differently. One interpretation is not any more right than another because no-one can truly know for a fact which one is correct (There are obviously exceptions... crazy people).

Denominations consist of people who agree on an interpretation of the Bible. Just because more people in a certain group interpret the Bible one way then another group interprets the bible in another way doesn't mean that the member s of the minority are wrong. Do you honestly think that I would try to interpret the Bible in a way I thought God didn't want me to interpret it? No, why would I do that? I believe that there are essentials to being a Christian, and some of those essentials include:

• Loving God
• Believing that his son bore the burden of our sins on the cross to give us the ability to enter into Heaven.

Well, that's what I'm trying to say, that we shouldn't interpret the way God didn't intend. But my Question is why would he want us to interpret our own way, meaning our own "meaning" rather then understand basically what he was trying to say?

Okay I'm in a non-demoninational pentacostal Church(well I just came back from church an hour ago), If I interpreted your post correctly your saying that the Bible contradicts itself in the use of Tongues, tongues are not for the masses, It does not edify other of the Church, It edifies you, it strengthens you and strenthens the relationship between you and Jesus through the Holy Spirit.
1 Corinthians 14:2
For if you have the ability to speak in tongues, you will be talking only to God, since people won’t be able to understand you. You will be speaking by the power of the Spirit, but it will all be mysterious.
1 Corinthians 14:4
A person who speaks in tongues is strengthened personally, but one who speaks a word of prophecy strengthens the entire church.

The Bible says that we can also confess our sins to God Himself.

Also with all this denomination talk has got me worried as

Luke11:17
Any Kingdom at was with itself is doomed. A divided home is alos doomed

I think People get Accepting and Agreeing confused, we dont have to agree with one another in little aspects but what we should do it accept one another.

yeah. hope that made sense.

To those in this thread

I actually have a newfound respect for you all, since all of you have the conviction to spread God's word despite others attesting to your beliefs and conflicts in the Christianity threads I read, I've been acutally struggling to be more outspoken about Christianity and defending the truth for a while.

VERY well put. I enjoyed reading what you had to say

[Simba]

Well, that's what I'm trying to say, that we shouldn't interpret the way God didn't intend. But my Question is why would he want us to interpret our own way, meaning our own "meaning" rather then understand basically what he was trying to say?

The possibility of misinterpretation is always there when there is no bona fide teacher and/or faith from the heart.

Simply reading the scripts and automatically understanding what God wanted you to know is as good as impossible. There will be the need for interpretation every time, and your interpretation may not always be the same as someone else's interpretation. I mean, if you look at some scriptures that include explanations in them (for example, Bhagavad Gita As It Is), a verse may only be about one sentence, but the explanations are usually much, much longer.