Supporting the Troops End the War Options

[Kontroll]

It baffles me when I see these bumper stickers that say 'Support the Troops End the War.' Is that really supporting the troops? Also, we are not in a war right now. We are in a conflict. Congress never declared war on Iraq, Afganistan, or any other countries since 9.11.

The mentality of the men and women in the service is so extreme, especially in the army and marines, that anyone whose never experienced it, really has no say that has any value. It's like a gym teacher trying to teach philosophy. You have to understand that most of the soldiers in Iraq or any other neighboring countries wanted to be there. That's why they signed up. They are taught to be prepared at all times to go to war. It's a soldiers profession to kill. It's their mission.

Saying that, if we don't support their mission, how can we support the people that are carrying it out? It doesn't make any sense. If you've got people back home saying that the war is stupid and wrong, then that is affecting the soldiers because now they have their leaders telling them what they need to do, and others telling them it's wrong. If anything, we should support the conflict.

That's the great thing about a voluntary military. No one forces you to join. And if some body does force you, then it's your fault that you went forth and gave the oath. They ask you right then and there if anyone is forcing you to join, speak now.

In conclusion, those opposed to the current conflict are only creating more damage to society and other societies. If we have any chance of getting out of the Middle East any faster the best thing to do is support our President and his choices. That's how our country made it through WWII. People decided to participate by building weapons and giving food to the troops. They donated money. Until Pearl Harbor we shouldn't have had any involvement, but the American citizens decided that it would be in the best interest to do something instead of talking about it negatively.

Please give me your comments.

[*Steven*]

Actually, war hasn't been declared since WWII.

[Kontroll]

Well, thank you for the clarity.

[*Steven*]

Just supporting your point.

I agree with you, but I don't think society (any time soon) will come to the realization that everyone opposing everything (as if it's the latest and greatest fad) only makes matters worse.

[*karmakiller*]

It reminds me of when I driving around with one my brother's friends, who's a former Marine, and was in Fallujah, and some guy in front of us had that "Freedom isn't Free" bumper sticker and he said "what has he paid?".

I do think that you can support the troops, but not support the "mission". They're two different things and you shouldn't let the line blur. Don't say that you are supporting the troops by not supporting what they're doing.

[Kontroll]

I do think that you can support the troops, but not support the "mission". They're two different things and you shouldn't let the line blur. Don't say that you are supporting the troops by not supporting what they're doing.

That's basically what I'm saying. Don't say that you're supporting the troops if you don't support the mission. It looks like that's what you just said.

[jammylise]

I kinda support your opinion on this.
But when you said it hasn't been declared
a war, doesn't mean it's not a war.
My brother showed me videos of not even half the stuff
he went through in Iraq for a year and a half.
Don't you think it is sort of a war, when people are
killing eachother every single day to keep the United States
safe?

[War: the waging of armed conflict against an enemy; ]

It is a war, it just hasn't been declared an offical one.

I support the troops who risk their lives

It's not ALL there pro choice to go
Some of them go into the military, because
it pays for some college, gives them a place to live.

My brothers friend went in, because he got kicked out of his house, didn't have money for college, and no place to stay.

i'm not saying the "war" is right, having all those troops killed,
but its life. It does suck, but if they do die, they died fighting for our country. They died with pride.

I respect what you wrote above, i'm just simply giving my comments.

[*Steven*]

That's basically what I'm saying. Don't say that you're supporting the troops if you don't support the mission. It looks like that's what you just said.

I didn't intend it to come out that way. I fully support the military and everything it's doing. I'm a bit of a pro-military nut, taken 4 years rotc, lots of family in military, etc etc. Even if I didn't support what's going on in Iraq, I still think it would be stupid to pull out because it would show the rest of the world that we can be pushed around and will eventually run away with our tails tucked.

[jesusisthebestth...]

war is defined as a conflict carried on by force of arms, as between nations or between parties within a nation; warfare, as by land, sea, or air.

therefore, one can support the troops and want to end the war. you can support the troops by stating that you want the war to end. there are several soldiers/troops who do not believe in the war. by speaking out against the war some are voicing the opinions many troops are afraid to voice.

if everyone held your point of view then there would be no point in living in america. two of the "best" things about this country are freedom of speech and freedom of press. both of which allow citizens and non citizens to voice their grievances against the president, as well as praise him and his efforts.

WWII is completely different from the war on iraq...you cannot compare the war on iraq with WWII because the world and its individual nation states were combatting completely different issues.

[*Steven*]

I don't care what the hell the definition as you say it is, it's a fact that war has not been declared by congress since world war 2.

[faydedprimadonna]

i definately don't agree with the "conflict", i don't think we should still be over there, but i have nothing but love and respect for our troops over there... my brother is a marine, one of my best friends just got back from camp taji a couple days ago... i think that you can disagree with the "conflict" but still support the troops... you don't have to be pro-war to show some brave people love and support!

[Amaranthus]

You could support the troops by caring for their general welfare and health. Not necessarily by wanting to send them home, or send more in. Correspondence is a form of support as well.

[*karmakiller*]

That's basically what I'm saying. Don't say that you're supporting the troops if you don't support the mission. It looks like that's what you just said.

Well, what I said is that you can support the troops if you don't support the mission.

[*Steven*]

i definately don't agree with the "conflict", i don't think we should still be over there, but i have nothing but love and respect for our troops over there... my brother is a marine, one of my best friends just got back from camp taji a couple days ago... i think that you can disagree with the "conflict" but still support the troops... you don't have to be pro-war to show some brave people love and support!

Well, what I said is that you can support the troops if you don't support the mission.

But then the troops get the sense that they're fighting for something that their country doesn't want, and if they get demoralized, that's the worst possible thing that can happen to them.

[faydedprimadonna]

But then the troops get the sense that they're fighting for something that their country doesn't want, and if they get demoralized, that's the worst possible thing that can happen to them.

at least from my experience with the soldiers that i know, they're there for one or both of 2 reasons... the paycheck and/or courage of conviction... if they're only there because it's a well paying job, then they don't really care why they're there or how the country feels about the conflict... if it's a courage of their convictions, then they shouldn't mind what people are saying about the conflict anyway because they believe in what it is that they're doing...

i believe that alot of the controversy about "support the troops, end the war" is based on america's reactions from vietnam... americans don't want to be somewhere we don't belong and get shat on for it and the troops don't want to come home to boos and protests... you DON'T have to agree with the country's decision to b involved in the middle east, but at least have the common courtesy to support the people that are keeping the draft from happening...

[*Steven*]

Draft won't happen. America is becoming too pussy-like. They would try some stupid shit like offering amnesty to illegals who joined the military.

You may know a few troops, but I hardly think that speaks for the armed forces. I've spent plenty of time on many bases, many filled with troops destined to Iraq. I spent four years in ROTC. I know a lot of people in the military. A lot of them go in because they're gung ho about joining the military, about fighting for the country. Yes, there are some who join for the paycheck, free college, bettering their lives, but a lot of people join because they want to fight for the country.

[faydedprimadonna]

i wasn't trying to sound like an expert on the subject, that was just the perspective i've gained from some of the people i know... i'm hoping that the draft won't ever happen again, but i can't trust that it won't if another republican gets his hands on the country

[*Steven*]

Lololololol. You're media brainwashed.

Actually I can't say that for certain, it just sounds that way, the way you pinned sole responsibility on the republicans. The Republicans are also causing global warming, and they create tsunami's so Bush can put our troops on asian soil. Anyways, sorry to come off as rude if I am, I don't mean it that way, it's just this is a subject that I stand very firm on.

[*superstitious*]

But then the troops get the sense that they're fighting for something that their country doesn't want, and if they get demoralized, that's the worst possible thing that can happen to them.

Understood. But just to play devil's advocate for sec here, if you are against the war, but do not wish to dampen the spirits of the troops, should you lie to keep their spirits up? Should you give false hope (if you truly believe that it is a lost cause?)

I understand the sentimentality of condemning the war, not the men fighting the war. I just don't know how one would find a balanced way of doing both.

[faydedprimadonna]

Lololololol. You're media brainwashed.

Actually I can't say that for certain, it just sounds that way, the way you pinned sole responsibility on the republicans. The Republicans are also causing global warming, and they create tsunami's so Bush can put our troops on asian soil. Anyways, sorry to come off as rude if I am, I don't mean it that way, it's just this is a subject that I stand very firm on.

i don't think you're rude at all... everyone has a right to their own opinion... i'm not trying to convert anyone... as to being media brainwashed, i may be... i don't blame republicans for everything but i do believe that a democrat would have ended this conflict already... it's probably due to the fact that i'm a hardcore masshole

Understood. But just to play devil's advocate for sec here, if you are against the war, but do not wish to dampen the spirits of the troops, should you lie to keep their spirits up? Should you give false hope (if you truly believe that it is a lost cause?)

that's the true dilemma i think... if the majority of america is against the conflict, then should the soldiers be lied to about it? i feel for the men and women over there, but the sooner this shit ends, the better...

[*Steven*]

Understood. But just to play devil's advocate for sec here, if you are against the war, but do not wish to dampen the spirits of the troops, should you lie to keep their spirits up? Should you give false hope (if you truly believe that it is a lost cause?)

I understand the sentimentality of condemning the war, not the men fighting the war. I just don't know how one would find a balanced way of doing both.

Hmmmm.
I don't think you should lie, because when the troops find out (and they will) they won't be very happy with that. It's situational, as to what to do. I think in the current situation, we need to get people back home to stop expressing all the negativities making the troops feel like they're fighting a war that they don't want to be in for a country that doesn't think they're supposed to be there in the first place.

I know times have changed, but 70 years back, if the country went to war, everyone pitched in, be it taking up jobs to help produce machinery, fighting on the front line, being a nurse, whatever. The country supported itself, and didn't have all the inner conflict that causes such wishy washy decisions and lack of confidence or unanimity.

It's late, and I'm rambling, so I'm not sure if what I just said made sense, or if I even completed the thought that I was thinking. If I didn't, oops :( I'll finish it tomorrow in between classes.

[faydedprimadonna]

I know times have changed, but 70 years back, if the country went to war, everyone pitched in, be it taking up jobs to help produce machinery, fighting on the front line, being a nurse, whatever. The country supported itself, and didn't have all the inner conflict that causes such wishy washy decisions and lack of confidence or unanimity.

ahhh... that was a simpler time... a time i wish could be resurrected! it's true that alot has changed... there's too much going on in america that's depressing me right now... i'm not even sure that what we have is worth fighting for...(STOP!! i am NOT a commie bastard... i love this country, i'm just disappointed in what it's become at the moment...) however!! the thing that IS worth fighting for is the country that we want it to become... we should be worrying about bettering our own country before trying to better the others!! AMERICA SHOULD NOT BE MOMMY TO THE REST OF THE WORLD!

[*karmakiller*]

I know times have changed, but 70 years back, if the country went to war, everyone pitched in, be it taking up jobs to help produce machinery, fighting on the front line, being a nurse, whatever. The country supported itself, and didn't have all the inner conflict that causes such wishy washy decisions and lack of confidence or unanimity.

Yes, but, back then we declared war

I suppose you could go deeper and see what everyone's idea of "supporting" the troops is. I don't think I've seen anyone actually supporting them, besides giving them moral support and sending them goods and such. I mean, hanging a flag in your front yard doesn't count as supporting the troops; that's just patriotism.

I deffinately wouldn't lie to them and act like I supported it. My brother's on his second tour and he knows that I'm not for the "conflict", but he also knows that I support and care about him. He has to do what he's told and I'm always here to try to keep his spirits as high as I can. That would fall under the moral support.

[Kontroll]

Alright, all I'm really getting is the same thing. Yes, you can support the troops by not supporting the mission. Why though? I gave a logical explination. It's time to hear the rebuttle.

Jammylise: Okay, Yes, according to your definition, we are in a war, but for the United States to enter into war, Congress needs to declare war on a country first. So, technically we are only in a conflict.

SoEffinMajor: Tell me logically how that stands up? Wanting the war to end, but supporting the troops? What does it do for the soldiers? How does it improve our country? Why should I care about what you're saying? < That's just a real question. Not being disrespectful.

[jammylise]

Alright, all I'm really getting is the same thing. Yes, you can support the troops by not supporting the mission. Why though? I gave a logical explination. It's time to hear the rebuttle.

Jammylise: Okay, Yes, according to your definition, we are in a war, but for the United States to enter into war, Congress needs to declare war on a country first. So, technically we are only in a conflict.

SoEffinMajor: Tell me logically how that stands up? Wanting the war to end, but supporting the troops? What does it do for the soldiers? How does it improve our country? Why should I care about what you're saying? < That's just a real question. Not being disrespectful.

I understand i'm just going by how my friends/ex boyfriend/ and family
feel as well as how i feel.

because my mom grew up in the army bases her father and rest of the guys in the family were in the military
my cousins are in the military, my sister grew up on the military base
my sisters husband is in the army
my brother is in the Marines

& so on and so on lol.

i'm just saying, try telling one of our troops in iraq suffering, without baths, good food, hardly any water, hard heat, rockets almost hitting or hitting them, bombs being blown up, hummvs blown up to pieces, loosing loved ones, carrying fallen troops that are dead hand and hand, blood in there face, with heart aches, that we are not in war.

:(

but i know its not correct that it's a war, but it is in some way, just not offical.