question for Protestants Options

[*kryogenix*]

To my understanding, the following are the major reasons why people are Protestant rather than Catholic

• Sola Scriptura
• Sola Fide
• The Pope
• Virgin Mary
• Confession

inform me if I am missing anything.

So my question to Protestants is: can you justify the deviations from Catholic teaching?

[richc]

I am a mere 14 year old, so I do not know much about the Catholic religion.

But for the "pope," I believe the Catholic religion says that everyone can only have a relationship with God through the church

meaning, the pope can stop someone from going to heaven. and the pope has power among the catholics.

in the bible, it says that everyone is a sinner; everyone is equal.

whether you have committed one sin or 1 billion sins, a sinner is a sinner.
meaning, no one is better than anyone else.

also, when Jesus died on the cross, the temple curtains that separated the clergy from the "holy room" which the priest was only suppose to have access to, was ripped open.
we believe that this meant that Jesus wanted a DIRECT relationship with all of us.

again, Im not the best person to rely for the absolute facts, but that is what i remember, jsut from my head.

[*kryogenix*]

I am a mere 14 year old, so I do not know much about the Catholic religion.

Heh, I'm 17, been Catholic all my life, and I'm still learning new things everyday! Just a reminder that this is a friendly discussion, there is no need to worry about any of that

But for the "pope," I believe the Catholic religion says that everyone can only have a relationship with God through the church

meaning, the pope can stop someone from going to heaven. and the pope has power among the catholics.

in the bible, it says that everyone is a sinner; everyone is equal.

whether you have committed one sin or 1 billion sins, a sinner is a sinner.
meaning, no one is better than anyone else.

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

-Matthew 16:18

What does that mean to you?

To me, it means the Pope is the successor to St. Peter. I would think that refusing to acknowledge this is the same as refusing to acknowledge St. Peter.

Your statement about the Pope having the power to prevent someone from reaching heaven is off as well. Only you have the power to prevent yourself from reaching heaven, as long as you are aware of your actions. We are the ones who choose to sin, not the Pope.

I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about the billions of sins, but I'll try to explain anyway. Yes, everyone sins. That's why we need to go to confession often. The Pope isn't above God's law just like the President isn't supposed to be above the law.

also, when Jesus died on the cross, the temple curtains that separated the clergy from the "holy room" which the priest was only suppose to have access to, was ripped open.
we believe that this meant that Jesus wanted a DIRECT relationship with all of us.

again, Im not the best person to rely for the absolute facts, but that is what i remember, jsut from my head.

The temple in the Holy of Holies was for the Jewish High priest. Jesus' death and the tearing of the cutain marked the end for levitical priesthood, not the Christian priesthood. The Crucifixion and death of Jesus marked the end for Judaism, since he had fulfilled the prophecy. It wouldn't make sense to end the Christian priesthood before Christianity got off its feet.

[*chaneun*]

I'm a Protestant, and when I was asking my mom about the difference between Catholics and Protestants, she told me that long ago, around when Martin Luther was alive, Catholics were kindof.. Paegans. According to what she said, Catholics were even selling tickets to heaven.
I dunno if that had to do anything with this topic, but also, don't Catholics pray to the Virgin Mary? I mean, Protestants don't do that, not that I know of any, but according to my mother, she said that Catholics pray to Mary because she gave birth to Jesus.

Anyway, I have a question. What is CCD like?

[*kryogenix*]

I'm a Protestant, and when I was asking my mom about the difference between Catholics and Protestants, she told me that long ago, around when Martin Luther was alive, Catholics were kindof.. Paegans. According to what she said, Catholics were even selling tickets to heaven.

Pagans? I'll need some clarification before I can explain that.

I don't know about tickets to heaven, but I know they were selling indulgences.

From Wikipedia:

In 1517, Pope Leo X offered indulgences for those who gave alms to rebuild St. Peter's Basilica in Rome, a situation that took on the appearance of "selling indulgences." The aggressive marketing practices of Johann Tetzel in promoting this cause provoked Martin Luther to write his 95 theses, protesting what he saw as the purchase and sale of salvation. According to tradition, he nailed these theses to a church door in Wittenberg, but this story is held to be apocryphal by some. From this controversy the Protestant Reformation was launched.

A plenary indulgences removes the temporal punishment associated with sin. But in order for it to go into effect, you have to confess your sin first. Also, if you're headed for purgatory, you've already been saved from Hell. It's not exactly a free pass to heaven.

I dunno if that had to do anything with this topic, but also, don't Catholics pray to the Virgin Mary? I mean, Protestants don't do that, not that I know of any, but according to my mother, she said that Catholics pray to Mary because she gave birth to Jesus.

It does have something to do with the topic, I listed the Virgin Mary as one of the points in my first post

We don't worship Mary. Mary is not God. We ask Mary to intercede on our behalf. If you ask a friend to pray for you, you aren't worshipping your friend, you're asking someone to talk to God on your behalf.

Anyway, I have a question. What is CCD like?

CCD is like any other educational institution. It depends on who's teaching. I've had some not so great teachers, and some really awesome teachers. You also get out of it what you put into it. If you don't do some reading on your own or ask questions, you'll probably end up not understanding all of it. The best part of my CCD experience was having someone who understood the Cathecism available to answer all of the questions I had.

[*kryogenix*]

Here's another one. What do Protestants believe concerning Real Presence?

[richc]

oh, the Virgin Mary.

Well. We Protestants....see Mary as a devoted Christian, but not one that should be praised.

If you were sick, (and as sinners, we all are), would you go to the doctor ro the doctor's mother?

[richc]

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, <a href="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0839/__PVP.HTM#$33G" target="_blank"></a>and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.

-Matthew 16:18



I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about the billions of sins, but I'll try to explain anyway. Yes, everyone sins. That's why we need to go to confession often. The Pope isn't above God's law just like the President isn't supposed to be above the law.

the first thing.

well, in the last chapter of Matthew, i think it talks about the Great Commission. Peter, i think, is used just as an example.
the main...rock that God builds his church on his Jesus, obviously. Peter was just a prophet, or an...evangelist in modern day terms.
basically, what im trying to say, i think, is that....there isnt a hierarchy for christianity on earth. basically, its God on top of the hierarchy, and EVERYONE on the bottom. including the pope.
...im not sure if i made sense or not...i might edit this later...but anyway

the 2nd thing

gah, ive got an entire book on it. but i cant fint it! darn. well...everyone sins. I...might sin less than ...say, a prosititute. 1 sin= sinner. 2000000000000000 sins= sinner.

a sinner is a sinner is a sinner. so, again, we are all created equal in the eyes of God. Why, all the sudden, does the pope have so much power?

"The temple in the Holy of Holies was for the Jewish High priest. Jesus' death and the tearing of the cutain marked the end for levitical priesthood, not the Christian priesthood. The Crucifixion and death of Jesus marked the end for Judaism, since he had fulfilled the prophecy. It wouldn't make sense to end the Christian priesthood before Christianity got off its feet."

well, im not saying the end to priesthood. im just saying..again...that everyone is equal. so...for example, no one should be able to excommunicate someone.

[*kryogenix*]

oh, the Virgin Mary.

Well. We Protestants....see Mary as a devoted Christian, but not one that should be praised.

If you were sick, (and as sinners, we all are), would you go to the doctor ro the doctor's mother?

Let me ask you this: If you were sick, would you rather pray on your own or have the mother of Jesus praying for you and with you?

well, in the last chapter of Matthew, i think it talks about the Great Commission. Peter, i think, is used just as an example.
the main...rock that God builds his church on his Jesus, obviously. Peter was just a prophet, or an...evangelist in modern day terms.

I read Matthew 28:16-20 and it doesn't say anything about Peter not being the foundation of the Church. It wouldn't make sense for Jesus to contradict what he said in Matthew 16:18.

basically, what im trying to say, i think, is that....there isnt a hierarchy for christianity on earth. basically, its God on top of the hierarchy, and EVERYONE on the bottom. including the pope.
...im not sure if i made sense or not...i might edit this later...but anyway

Matthew 18:15-18 demonstrates a hierarchy. Also, is there not a hierarchy in any religion? Who decides what is to be taught in your religion? Obviously, someone had the power to decide what should be taught.

gah, ive got an entire book on it. but i cant fint it! darn. well...everyone sins. I...might sin less than ...say, a prosititute. 1 sin= sinner. 2000000000000000 sins= sinner.

a sinner is a sinner is a sinner. so, again, we are all created equal in the eyes of God. Why, all the sudden, does the pope have so much power?

Do you believe there is a difference between venial and mortal sin?

The Pope has power because he is the successor to St. Peter. The Pope guides the Church.

well, im not saying the end to priesthood. im just saying..again...that everyone is equal. so...for example, no one should be able to excommunicate someone.

Well, first let's first get a good understanding of what excommunication is and why it is necessary. Excommunication is being cut off from sacramental Catholic life. A person who commits serious and grave sin can be excommunicated. This is not to say they are no longer Catholic. A person who has been excommunicated can rejoin the Church after doing penance and being absolved.

If you think about it, we excommunicate ourselves by commiting mortal sin. Mortal Sin cuts us off from God. But God is always ready to forgive, as long as we are willing to ask for forgiveness.

[hangfire]

I like being a Protestant. It's more liberal than Catholicism and our preachings evince practicality. I'm not against Catholics or anything.

[*kryogenix*]

I like being a Protestant. It's more liberal than Catholicism and our preachings evince practicality. I'm not against Catholics or anything.

Religion is not like joining a political party. You have the choice of living the way Jesus wants you to live, or you can live the way that's most convenient for you. Which would you rather do?

[colleen92]

i am a Catholic but i happen to know a lot about the history of our church. i know that there was much corruption in the Catholic church at the time of the Protestant Reformation. They sold indulgences which is what i think someone meant when they said "they sold tickets to heaven." Indulgences were what people paid for so that they didn't have to do pennence. Another thing was that the Popes chose their successors. They would choose their friends instead of someone that would actually make a good Pope.

meaning, the pope can stop someone from going to heaven. and the pope has power among the catholics.

Catholics do not believe that the Pope can stop someone from going to Heaven. And the Pope does not have "power" over the Catholics, he is in charge of the order of Catholocism. Meaning, he makes new rules for the Church (however they must be approved by the Cardinals) and appoints preists, bishops, ect.

[*kryogenix*]

i am a Catholic but i happen to know a lot about the history of our church. i know that there was much corruption in the Catholic church at the time of the Protestant Reformation. They sold indulgences which is what i think someone meant when they said "they sold tickets to heaven." Indulgences were what people paid for so that they didn't have to do pennence. Another thing was that the Popes chose their successors. They would choose their friends instead of someone that would actually make a good Pope.

I think the Protestant Reformation was a revolution more than it was a reformation. Luther did not bring the Church back to the way it was before there was corruption, he commited the grave sin of schism. The real reform was in the Council of Trent.

Also, indulgences DO NOT excuse you from saying penance! This is a misunderstanding. When granted an indulgences, the sacrament of reconciliation completes the indulgence. Receiving the indulgence on its own does not remove the temporal punishment for sin.

Catholics do not believe that the Pope can stop someone from going to Heaven. And the Pope does not have "power" over the Catholics, he is in charge of the order of Catholocism. Meaning, he makes new rules for the Church (however they must be approved by the Cardinals) and appoints preists, bishops, ect.

The last part is incorrect. The Pope is infallible when he makes statements ex cathedra on matters of faith and morals. I'm pretty sure they don't need to be approved by the people below the Pope.

[sweetangel2128]

To my understanding, the following are the major reasons why people are Protestant rather than Catholic

• Sola Scriptura
• Sola Fide
• The Pope
• Virgin Mary
• Confession

inform me if I am missing anything.

So my question to Protestants is: can you justify the deviations from Catholic teaching?

I disagree with all of that, Protestants don't do confessions and they dont' worship the Pope, most Christians are Protestants. I think your thinking of Catholic which is another form of Christianity.

[silly ol' man]

^ The bulleted religious features in his original post denote Catholic peculiarities, not Protestant ones.

[sweetangel2128]

^ The bulleted religious features in his original post denote Catholic peculiarities, not Protestant ones.

Oh okay, I get it now...sorry about that!

[*kryogenix*]

^ The bulleted religious features in his original post denote Catholic peculiarities, not Protestant ones.

Well not quite... the bulleted points are main topics that Catholics and protestants don't disagree on.

Actually, most Christians are Catholic if I'm not mistaken. Just not in the United States (though Roman Catholicism is the single largest Christian sect with Baptist in second place if I recall correctly).

[sweetangel2128]

Well not quite... the bulleted points are main topics that Catholics and protestants don't disagree on.

Actually, most Christians are Catholic if I'm not mistaken. Just not in the United States (though Roman Catholicism is the single largest Christian sect with Baptist in second place if I recall correctly).

From what I was told by another Christian, most Christians are more along the lines of Protestantism.

[*kryogenix*]

Well let's take a look at some data because I could be wrong

http://www.adherents.com/adh_branches.html#Christianity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_t...fication_Survey

Yep, I'm wrong thanks to my poor wording. Catholics are indeed the largest Christian group in the US and is the largest religious body in the entire world, but most Christians are not Catholic in the United States.

[sweetangel2128]

Well let's take a look at some data because I could be wrong

http://www.adherents.com/adh_branches.html#Christianity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_t...fication_Survey

Yep, I'm wrong thanks to my poor wording. Catholics are indeed the largest Christian group in the US and is the largest religious body in the entire world, but most Christians are not Catholic in the United States.

I would say that Catholics are a huge number, correct but I think the Protestant religion is very huge also..not sure which one is bigger...I'd have to really do research on it. I am just going off someone else's views.

[*kryogenix*]

In any case, the question I posed in the original post is still open for answering