The Trinity Options

[Kontroll]

All Christians agree on each of hte basic propositions that form the foundation for Trinitarianism, though Christians sometimes disagree on (1) how to explain the relationships between these basic statements and (2) what other biblical teachings might be added to the basic list to fill out the doctrine of the Trinity. This implies that all branches of the Church are unified in their basic confession of the Trinity so that whatever variations exist do not undermind the confession of trinitarian faith. It means that Christians are united in theirview of who God is. The Church is one. It also means that whoever does not afree with these basic biblical foundations for the trinitarian faith is, by definition, not a Christian.
---

Before starting these basic propositions, it is important to say a few words about the often-noted fact that the word Trinity is not found in the Bible. Christians ask or are askedwhy, if the word is not in the Bible, do they use it? The answer is simple and has nothing to do with some conspiracy to add something to the Bible that really is not there. The word Trinity is used for theological and practical convenience -- it is 'theologicalshorthand,' a single word that sums up a series of biblical teachings. Instead of repeating the whole series of every time we speak of God, we substitute a single word that summarizes the truth. What, then, are these basic biblical propositions? The basic truth, wich all Christians afree upon, can be expressed in five propositions.

1. There is one God.
2. The Father is God.
3. The Son is God.
4. The Spirit is God.
5. The Father, Son, and Spirit are distinguishable persons in relationship with one another. They are not merely different names for the one God.

Analogy: Crystals of salt that appear on the beach after the tide has receded may be the most apparent proof that the sea is saltwater, but every bucket of water drawn from the ocean testifies clearly to the fact.

REFERENCES:
- - -
1. There is one God. (Deut. 6:4; I Sam. 2:2; 2Kgs. 19:15; Is. 37:16; 44:8; Mk. 12:28-24; I Cor. 8:4-6; I Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19). That the Bible teaches this proposition is not disputed.

2. The Father is God. (Rom. 1:7; I Cor. 1:3; 8:6 15:24; 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 4:6; Phil. 4:20). Again, this proposition is seldom disputed.
3. The Son is God. Because this proposition is frequently denied, I give a fuller statement of evidence, but still only scratches the surface.
a. The Son is called God. ( Jn. 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:8).
b. The Son is given divine names. (Jn. 1:1, 18; Acts 5:31; I Cor. 2:8; Jas. 2:1; Rev. 1:8, 21:6; 22:13).
c. The Son has divine attributes.
i. Eternity. (Jn. 1:2; 8:58; 17:5; Rev. 1:8, 17; 22:13).
ii. Immutability. (Heb. 1:11, 12; 13:8).
iii. Omnipresence. (Jn. 3:13; Mt. 18:20; 28:20).
iv. Omniscience. (Mt. 11:27; Jn. 2:23-25; 21:17; Rev. 2:23).
v. Omnipotence. (Jn. 5:17; Heb. 1:3; Rev. 1:8; 11:17).
d. The Son does divine works.
i. Creation. (Jn. 1:3, 10; Col. 1:16-17)
ii. Salvation. (Acts 4:12; 2 Tim. 1:10; Heb. 5:9).
iii. Judgment. (Jn. 5:22; 2 Cor. 5:10; Mt. 25:31-32).
e. The Son is worshipped as God. (Jn. 5:22-23; 20:28; I Cor. 1:2; Phil. 2:9-10; Heb. 1:6).
4. The Spirit is God. Those whose accept the biblical evidence for the deity of the Son seldom have trouble understanding the evidence for the deity of the Spirit.
a. The Spirit is called God. (Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:17).
b. The Spirit is given divine names. (Mt. 12:28).
c. The Spirit has divine attributes. (I Cor. 2:13-14; Gal. 5:22; I Tim. 4:1; Heb. 3:7; 9:14; I Jn. 5:6-7).
d. The Spirit does divine works. (Jn. 6:33; 14:17, 26; 16:13; Acts 1:8; 2:17-18; 16:6; Rom. 8:26; 15:19; I Cor. 12:7-11).
e. The Spirit is worshipped as God. (Mt. 12:32).
5. The Father, Son and Spirit are distinguishable persons in relationship with one another. They are not merely different names for one God.
a. The Son prays to the Father. (Jn. 11:41-42; 17; Mt. 26:39 ff)
b. The Father speaks to the Son. (Jn. 12:27-28).
c. The Father, the Son, and the Spirit - all three - appear together, but are clearly distinct from one another. (Mt. 3:16-17).
d. The Father sends the Son and Spirit, and the Son sends the Spirit. (Jn. 3:17; 4:34; 5:30; 6:39; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7)
e. The Father and Son love one another. (Jn. 3:35; 5:20; 10:17; 14:31; 15:9-10; 17:24).

The Trinity and Logic
- - -
Though it is clearly the teaching of the Bible, cultic groups and atheists often complain that the Christian doctrine of the Trinity is a contradiction. How can there be one God and at the same time three who are called God? Christians seem to be saying that 1+1+1=1. This is simply bad arithmetic, we are told, not profound theology. The fact is, however, that the doctrine of the Trinity neither involves nor implies a contradiction. How, then, does a Christian explain that God is both one and three at the same time? The answer, in part, is that He is not one in precisely the same way that He is three. Trinitarianism would be a contradiction if it affirmed that God is one and three in precisely the same sense, but no one in the history of the Church has ever taught such a view. All the same, this is only a partial
answer.

There is a very great difference between something being a demonstrated contradiction and something being incomprehensible.

All words besides biblical references from Trinity & Reality An Introduction to the Christian Faith by Ralph A. Smith.

Yes, Heath21. This is this book that I want you to pick up.

Into the discussion I will go deeper into thought and show you what the Trinity is comprised of, and show the logic behind it.

[sweetangel2128]

All Christians agree on each of hte basic propositions that form the foundation for Trinitarianism, though Christians sometimes disagree on (1) how to explain the relationships between these basic statements and (2) what other biblical teachings might be added to the basic list to fill out the doctrine of the Trinity. This implies that all branches of the Church are unified in their basic confession of the Trinity so that whatever variations exist do not undermind the confession of trinitarian faith. It means that Christians are united in theirview of who God is. The Church is one. It also means that whoever does not afree with these basic biblical foundations for the trinitarian faith is, by definition, not a Christian.
---

Before starting these basic propositions, it is important to say a few words about the often-noted fact that the word Trinity is not found in the Bible. Christians ask or are askedwhy, if the word is not in the Bible, do they use it? The answer is simple and has nothing to do with some conspiracy to add something to the Bible that really is not there. The word Trinity is used for theological and practical convenience -- it is 'theologicalshorthand,' a single word that sums up a series of biblical teachings. Instead of repeating the whole series of every time we speak of God, we substitute a single word that summarizes the truth. What, then, are these basic biblical propositions? The basic truth, wich all Christians afree upon, can be expressed in five propositions.

1. There is one God.
2. The Father is God.
3. The Son is God.
4. The Spirit is God.
5. The Father, Son, and Spirit are distinguishable persons in relationship with one another. They are not merely different names for the one God.

Analogy: Crystals of salt that appear on the beach after the tide has receded may be the most apparent proof that the sea is saltwater, but every bucket of water drawn from the ocean testifies clearly to the fact.

REFERENCES:
- - -
1. There is one God. (Deut. 6:4; I Sam. 2:2; 2Kgs. 19:15; Is. 37:16; 44:8; Mk. 12:28-24; I Cor. 8:4-6; I Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19). That the Bible teaches this proposition is not disputed.

2. The Father is God. (Rom. 1:7; I Cor. 1:3; 8:6 15:24; 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 4:6; Phil. 4:20). Again, this proposition is seldom disputed.
3. The Son is God. Because this proposition is frequently denied, I give a fuller statement of evidence, but still only scratches the surface.
a. The Son is called God. ( Jn. 1:1; 20:28; Rom. 9:5; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:8).
b. The Son is given divine names. (Jn. 1:1, 18; Acts 5:31; I Cor. 2:8; Jas. 2:1; Rev. 1:8, 21:6; 22:13).
c. The Son has divine attributes.
i. Eternity. (Jn. 1:2; 8:58; 17:5; Rev. 1:8, 17; 22:13).
ii. Immutability. (Heb. 1:11, 12; 13:8).
iii. Omnipresence. (Jn. 3:13; Mt. 18:20; 28:20).
iv. Omniscience. (Mt. 11:27; Jn. 2:23-25; 21:17; Rev. 2:23).
v. Omnipotence. (Jn. 5:17; Heb. 1:3; Rev. 1:8; 11:17).
d. The Son does divine works.
i. Creation. (Jn. 1:3, 10; Col. 1:16-17)
ii. Salvation. (Acts 4:12; 2 Tim. 1:10; Heb. 5:9).
iii. Judgment. (Jn. 5:22; 2 Cor. 5:10; Mt. 25:31-32).
e. The Son is worshipped as God. (Jn. 5:22-23; 20:28; I Cor. 1:2; Phil. 2:9-10; Heb. 1:6).
4. The Spirit is God. Those whose accept the biblical evidence for the deity of the Son seldom have trouble understanding the evidence for the deity of the Spirit.
a. The Spirit is called God. (Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:17).
b. The Spirit is given divine names. (Mt. 12:28).
c. The Spirit has divine attributes. (I Cor. 2:13-14; Gal. 5:22; I Tim. 4:1; Heb. 3:7; 9:14; I Jn. 5:6-7).
d. The Spirit does divine works. (Jn. 6:33; 14:17, 26; 16:13; Acts 1:8; 2:17-18; 16:6; Rom. 8:26; 15:19; I Cor. 12:7-11).
e. The Spirit is worshipped as God. (Mt. 12:32).
5. The Father, Son and Spirit are distinguishable persons in relationship with one another. They are not merely different names for one God.
a. The Son prays to the Father. (Jn. 11:41-42; 17; Mt. 26:39 ff)
b. The Father speaks to the Son. (Jn. 12:27-28).
c. The Father, the Son, and the Spirit - all three - appear together, but are clearly distinct from one another. (Mt. 3:16-17).
d. The Father sends the Son and Spirit, and the Son sends the Spirit. (Jn. 3:17; 4:34; 5:30; 6:39; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7)
e. The Father and Son love one another. (Jn. 3:35; 5:20; 10:17; 14:31; 15:9-10; 17:24).

The Trinity and Logic
- - -
Though it is clearly the teaching of the Bible, cultic groups and atheists often complain that the Christian doctrine of the Trinity is a contradiction. How can there be one God and at the same time three who are called God? Christians seem to be saying that 1+1+1=1. This is simply bad arithmetic, we are told, not profound theology. The fact is, however, that the doctrine of the Trinity neither involves nor implies a contradiction. How, then, does a Christian explain that God is both one and three at the same time? The answer, in part, is that He is not one in precisely the same way that He is three. Trinitarianism would be a contradiction if it affirmed that God is one and three in precisely the same sense, but no one in the history of the Church has ever taught such a view. All the same, this is only a partial
answer.

There is a very great difference between something being a demonstrated contradiction and something being incomprehensible.

All words besides biblical references from Trinity & Reality An Introduction to the Christian Faith by Ralph A. Smith.

Yes, Heath21. This is this book that I want you to pick up.

Into the discussion I will go deeper into thought and show you what the Trinity is comprised of, and show the logic behind it.

Firstly, you didn't have to mention my name to the public.

I still don't believe in it, God is not 3 different persons

But I don't mind seeing others views on this.

[Kontroll]

Firstly, you didn't have to mention my name to the public.

I still don't believe in it, God is not 3 different persons

But I don't mind seeing others views on this.

You said you believe in God's word. Now I'm showing it to you, and you're openly denying it. Well, I guess there's no more as a Christian I can do for you.

[*.fire*]

I believe there are things beyond our knowledge that we cannot explain, only God can, but what I do know that God, Jesus and the Holy spirit are different and one in the same and in some weird way to know God you first must know Jesus, and to have a relationship we must have the Holy Spirit within us.

Eh, however relevant the above was to the topic.

[Kontroll]

I believe there are things beyond our knowledge that we cannot explain, only God can, but what I do know that God, Jesus and the Holy spirit are different and one in the same and in some weird way to know God you first must know Jesus, and to have a relationship we must have the Holy Spirit within us.

Eh, however relevant the above was to the topic.

Exactly. The Trinity is a mystery and incomprehensible.

[sweetangel2128]

You said you believe in God's word. Now I'm showing it to you, and you're openly denying it. Well, I guess there's no more as a Christian I can do for you.

Yes, I do believe in God's word but the Trinity is not in anyway God's word, it isn't even in the Bible, it is not biblical and it was man-made, not God-made which is why I do not believe in it. So, therefore, it is not God's word.

Jessica, wanted me to tell you this, she is sick and isn't able to come and post this so I am giving you her answer on the whole trinity thing:

"You are underestimating God by believing in the trinity because by believing in it you are saying that God can't be in two or three places at once, that because Jesus was on earth that he can't be God because God would have to be in heaven. You don't understand that we cannot even begin to think like God does, he is on higher thinking level and has powers we can't even begin to comprehend on earth, he is not of this world so we can't think of him as if he is an earthly being. You are saying he is not powerful enough to be on earth and in heaven at the same time. When Jesus prayed to the father, he was praying to the spirit of God which was in him, see Jesus was fully man and fully God, the flesh part of him was totally different then the spirit of him, which was the full God part of him. So his flesh flesh prayed to his spirit, and his flesh said "father why hast thou forsaken me" on the cross, that was his flesh crying out. That's why the bible tells us to fast and pray because fasting, going without food, weakens our flesh and strengthens our spirit, that's why Jesus fasted for 40 days in the desert, he was preparing himself for his death. People who believe in the trinity also believe in getting baptized in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost when the bible tells us after Jesus was ressurected and ascended up to heaven, to get baptized in the name of Jesus only, not in the name of the father son and holy ghost. Acts 2:38 and other scriptures tell us to do it in the name of Jesus, why? Because he is the Father, he is the son, and he is the holy ghost, he sums up all three. The trinitarians, lol, will argue with you about that because Jesus himself told us to get baptized in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost, but after his death and ressurection, we had to get baptized in the name of Jesus because Jesus wasn't going to tell us to get baptized in his name, he wanted us to belieive he was God so that we would eventually realize that we need to pray in his name, get baptized in his name and so on."

[*.fire*]

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart;do not depend on your own understanding.

Wait, this is relevant, let me think why I posted this

[Kontroll]

Yes, I do believe in God's word but the Trinity is not in anyway God's word, it isn't even in the Bible, it is not biblical and it was man-made, not God-made which is why I do not believe in it. So, therefore, it is not God's word.

Jessica, wanted me to tell you this, she is sick and isn't able to come and post this so I am giving you her answer on the whole trinity thing:

"You are underestimating God by believing in the trinity because by believing in it you are saying that God can't be in two or three places at once, that because Jesus was on earth that he can't be God because God would have to be in heaven. You don't understand that we cannot even begin to think like God does, he is on higher thinking level and has powers we can't even begin to comprehend on earth, he is not of this world so we can't think of him as if he is an earthly being. You are saying he is not powerful enough to be on earth and in heaven at the same time. When Jesus prayed to the father, he was praying to the spirit of God which was in him, see Jesus was fully man and fully God, the flesh part of him was totally different then the spirit of him, which was the full God part of him. So his flesh flesh prayed to his spirit, and his flesh said "father why hast thou forsaken me" on the cross, that was his flesh crying out. That's why the bible tells us to fast and pray because fasting, going without food, weakens our flesh and strengthens our spirit, that's why Jesus fasted for 40 days in the desert, he was preparing himself for his death. People who believe in the trinity also believe in getting baptized in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost when the bible tells us after Jesus was ressurected and ascended up to heaven, to get baptized in the name of Jesus only, not in the name of the father son and holy ghost. Acts 2:38 and other scriptures tell us to do it in the name of Jesus, why? Because he is the Father, he is the son, and he is the holy ghost, he sums up all three. The trinitarians, lol, will argue with you about that because Jesus himself told us to get baptized in the name of the father, son, and holy ghost, but after his death and ressurection, we had to get baptized in the name of Jesus because Jesus wasn't going to tell us to get baptized in his name, he wanted us to belieive he was God so that we would eventually realize that we need to pray in his name, get baptized in his name and so on."

It's just theological shorthand to describe God. That's all. I know it's man made. That's all I'm trying to say.

- - -

Personhood and Harmony
- - -
The implications of the doctrine of the Trinity are far-reaching and deep. How could it be otherwise? God is the infinite, incomprehensible, transcendent Lord. He is also the Father, who is always near us. When we consider the implications of trinitarianism, we are meditating on who He is and how He reveals Himself to us. Because of His majesty and greatness, we are too confronted with mystery -- but the mystery is neither dark nor foggy. It is the radiant luster of God's light that overwhelms us. The Christian God is a mystery to us but not to Himself. The Persons of the Trinity have an absolute knowledge of one another. In the mind of God, truth is an entirely rational and perfect system, for God cannot contradict Himself (2 Tim. 2:13; Tit. 1:2; Jas. 1:13, 17).

A Personal God and a Personal World
- - -
Of all the gods in all the religions of the world, only the triune God of the Bible is truly and wholly personal. This point is often not recognized, so we will dwell on it briefly. First, consider the non-Christian theism embraced by Jews, and Muslims, the belief in a single god who rules the world. By itself, theism will not suffice to give us a truly personal god, for a god who is utterly and simply one -- a mere monad -- fails to have the qualities we know to be essential to personality. Although an absolute monad, like the god of Islam, is the most exalted non-Christian idea of deity, a monad is a being who is eternally alone -- with one other to love, no other with whom to communicate, and no other with whom to have fellowship. In the case of such a solitary god, love, fellowship, and communication cannot be essential to his being. Indeed, they are no part of the monad at all. But without these qualities it is difficult to imagine that the deity so understood is in any meaningful sense personal. To conceive of a god who does not know love, a god who has never shared, a god for whom a relationship with another is eternally irrelevant, is to conceive of an abstraction, an idea or a thing more than a person.

If, to make his god more personal, a believer in such a deity suggested that his god loved the world after he created it, the result would be a god who changes in time and who needs the world in order to grow into his self realization as a god of love -- a god who becomes personal only with the help of the creation. Suppose one asserted that the monad loved the world from eternity? Then the personality of this deity and his attributes of love would still depend for their existence on the world he created. Creation would be a necessary act of self-becoming. For, unless this deity created the world, he could not realize the love that had been eternally hidden in him, waiting for its time to shine forth.

- - -

This says that God cannot be one being(monad) because that would make him inconsistent and non loving. The fact that God is so uniquely a triune God makes the Christian faith make sense. Without the Trinity we are just another theistic group out there, such as Judaism and Islam.

- - -

All the text that I write here is from the book previously mentioned. I suggest anyone who is interested in the Trinity should pick it up and read it. It's truly a great Christian book, and I hate Christian books...besides the Bible.

[sweetangel2128]

Proverbs 3:5
Trust in the Lord with all your heart;do not depend on your own understanding.

Wait, this is relevant, let me think why I posted this

Exactly. Therefore, study whats in the Bible, do not listen to what is man-made and what others preach. God made his Word pretty darn clear.

[Kontroll]

Exactly. Therefore, study whats in the Bible, do not listen to what is man-made and what others preach. God made his Word pretty darn clear.

That's not what its saying at all. It means don't listen to your own reasonings. Its saying that God is more powerful than you and has perfect knowledge and understanding. We don't.

Read something besides the Bible. Reason with it. If it makes sense and lines up with what the Bible says than it can't be bad.

As I was saying in my last post, God is love. To have love you need some one to love. If God was one being how could He love?

God says that he created man in his own image. Correct? So, if God truly was one being(monad) than we would be created with out love and have no personal attachment to anybody else.

If Muslims and Jews applied their notions of god consistently to their worldview, man's personality, too, would be found to lack ultimate meaning. Things that we rightly regard as essential to man's personhood -- that man speaks, laughs, and loves -- could only be accidental truths at best. Nothing in the deity would correspond to social relations. This raises a question: What would it mean to say that we are created in the image of the lonely monad? If man is thought to be like such a god, what impact would that have, for example, on our notion of the ideal life in this world? Should it be one that lacks these personal qualities or transcends them? What about the idea of heaven? Should man look forward to an eternity of silent self-contemplation?

Think about it. To have a Triune God only makes sense.

If we never listened to anything besides the Bible, how would we know what is what? You obviously learned at least some bits of math, English, history, science... To say that we should only trust God's word is a superficial truth. You can't grasp His word if you have no knowledge of outside influences. That's why alot of Christians need to go through some sort of struggle to understand God's word. They will read something and not understand it. You won't find it in any text books, or anything, but it's something that you need to experience. If God made everything black and white, don't you think that the church would have one set rule of doctrines? The Bible isn't always clear. That's one thing that you need to learn. What else that you need to learn is that you can't be blind in your faith.

[sweetangel2128]

That's not what its saying at all. It means don't listen to your own reasonings. Its saying that God is more powerful than you and has perfect knowledge and understanding. We don't.

Read something besides the Bible. Reason with it. If it makes sense and lines up with what the Bible says than it can't be bad.

It's very clear in what it says, trust the lord - meaning read his word, do not depend upon your own understanding of what you "think" he means, he is very clear in his Word.

Don't assume. I do read other books other then the Bible, Christian books and I love them. But I am going to go off of God's word and God's word only which is the Bible, if a certain thing is not in there, I will not believe in it.

[Kontroll]

It's very clear in what it says, trust the lord - meaning read his word, do not depend upon your own understanding of what you "think" he means, he is very clear in his Word.

Don't assume. I do read other books other then the Bible, Christian books and I love them. But I am going to go off of God's word and God's word only which is the Bible, if a certain thing is not in there, I will not believe in it.

I have a question for you:

The Bible makes it clear that you shall not have sex outside of marriage. What technicality it doesn't imply is that you don't only have to have sex with your spouse. So, knowing that, would you say that the Bible is always clear?

There's a certain code that runs throughout the Bible. It's called the Heptetic code. Starting at a certain point you could a certain number of letters or characters. After you reach that one, you count the same amount again. I think it's every 49 letters or something like that. There is no where in the Bible that mentions God's word having such a unique code to show that God truly did inspire the Bible.

How do you feel about that? Such uncertainties.

This same kind of biblical ignorance is all too present around the topic of homosexuality. Often people who love and trust God's Word have never given careful and prayerful attention to what the Bible does or doesn't say about homosexuality.

For example, many Christians don't know that:

* Jesus says nothing about same-sex behavior.
* The Jewish prophets are silent about homosexuality.
* Only six or seven of the Bible's one million verses refer to same-sex behavior in any way -- and none of these verses refer to homosexual orientation as it's understood today.

Most people who are certain they know what the Bible says about homosexuality don't know where the verses that reference same-sex behavior can be found. They haven't read them, let alone studied them carefully. They don't know the original meaning of the words in Hebrew or Greek. And they haven't tried to understand the historical context in which those words were written. Yet the assumption that the Bible condemns homosexuality is passed down from generation to generation with very little personal study or research. The consequences of this misinformation are disastrous, not only for God's gay and lesbian children, but for the entire church.

He's right.

[sweetangel2128]

I have a question for you:

The Bible makes it clear that you shall not have sex outside of marriage. What technicality it doesn't imply is that you don't only have to have sex with your spouse. So, knowing that, would you say that the Bible is always clear?

Yes that is in there and it is clear. It says not to fornicate which is sex before marriage but it also says not to committ adultry which is having sex with another man while being married or having sex with someone else's spouse.

Same sex behavior is mentioned in the Bible, heres the verse:

Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies
with a woman; that is detestable.

Romans 1:26,27
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.
Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations
with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.
Men committed indecent acts with other men,
and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

1Corinthians 6:9-10
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Ps: This is only three, there are more.

[Kontroll]

Yes that is in there and it is clear. It says not to fornicate which is sex before marriage but it also says not to committ adultry which is having sex with another man while being married or having sex with someone else's spouse.

Same sex behavior is mentioned in the Bible, heres the verse:

Leviticus 18:22
Do not lie with a man as one lies
with a woman; that is detestable.

Romans 1:26,27
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts.
Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.
In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations
with women and were inflamed with lust for one another.
Men committed indecent acts with other men,
and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

1Corinthians 6:9-10
9Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Ps: This is only three, there are more.

I was using it as an example.

[sweetangel2128]

I was using it as an example.

I am making a point, you say that Christians don't understand that Jesus never mentions homosexuality in the Bible when he does, I doubt that was just an example by this line here:

"For example, many Christians don't know that:

* Jesus says nothing about same-sex behavior."

[Kontroll]

I am making a point, you say that Christians don't understand that Jesus never mentions homosexuality in the Bible when he does, I doubt that was just an example by this line here:

"For example, many Christians don't know that:

* Jesus says nothing about same-sex behavior."

He doesn't. God talks about homosexuality. Not Jesus.

[sweetangel2128]

He doesn't. God talks about homosexuality. Not Jesus.

God is Jesus - read the Bible it clearly states it.

[Kontroll]

Jesus was a prophet. I gave you a thousand different references that says that Jesus is God's son and apart of the Trinity. It doesn't make sense that Jesus is 100% God. Why would Jesus pray to God in the garden of Gathseminae? However you spell it. Why would Jesus ask God, 'Why has Thou forsaken me?'

It only makes sense to say that Jesus is not 100% God. It's a Trinity. Do I really need to list those references again?

[sweetangel2128]

Jesus was a prophet. I gave you a thousand different references that says that Jesus is God's son and apart of the Trinity. It doesn't make sense that Jesus is 100% God. Why would Jesus pray to God in the garden of Gathseminae? However you spell it. Why would Jesus ask God, 'Why has Thou forsaken me?'

It only makes sense to say that Jesus is not 100% God. It's a Trinity. Do I really need to list those references again?

I also posted you a thing that Jessica said about that, about him praying in the Garden to God - her pastor explained why it is that way and he also explained why the trinity is wrong. Jesus was the messiah, he even claimed in the Bible as being the messiah. Like I said read the word of God, it tells you. I do not need your references to know what the Bible talks about. But thanks for offering

[Kontroll]

I also posted you a thing that Jessica said about that, about him praying in the Garden to God - her pastor explained why it is that way and he also explained why the trinity is wrong. Jesus was the messiah, he even claimed in the Bible as being the messiah. Like I said read the word of God, it tells you. I do not need your references to know what the Bible talks about. But thanks for offering

Oh, so the Bible is clear on all things except Jesus praying to God in the garden. Hmm. That's interesting how you contradict yourself.

[sweetangel2128]

Oh, so the Bible is clear on all things except Jesus praying to God in the garden. Hmm. That's interesting how you contradict yourself.

I never once contradicted myself. I think the whole praying to God thing makes total sense.

Ps: I have a Question for you. You claim that Jesus is not God, if that is so then what do you think this verse means:

John 1: 1-5.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.

So, in that verse it's pretty clear they are saying that God created everything and that he is the Word.

Now, look at this verse:

John 1: 10-14.
He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

This last verse shows us that Jesus was in fact God, hence the part of the verse that says - "The Word became flesh" meaning Jesus. This is why the Trinity is false because the Trinity teaches that Jesus is the son of God and is not in fact God but a prophet and that they are all different persons. They are all the same and no different from eachother. As I said, read the Bible, it clearly states that Jesus is God.

[Kontroll]

Ps: I have a Question for you. You claim that Jesus is not God, if that is so then what do you think this verse means:

I never said that Jesus wasn't God. What I am saying is that they are two distinguishable persons in the Trinity. Read this. This might clear things up.

- - -

First, we will take time to consider the truth that what God does in history reaveals who He is in eternity. In part, this isa simple deduction from the fact that God cannot change. He is self-consistent.

In the creation of the world and through His leading in history, God is manifesting Himself.

Second, we will look into the implications of an ancient theological word -- perichoresis in Greek, circumincessio in Latin -- that points to an important aspect of the Trinity. The theological terms are technical, but the truth expressed is straightforward: each of the Persons of the Trinity dwells in the others. This comes to expression most frequently in the Godpel of John, where our Lord repeatedly says that He is 'in the Father' and the Father is 'in' Him.

The incomprehensible depth and transparent clarity of GOd's self-revelation are united in the revelation that He has given to us in His Son.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth...
No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. (Jn. 1:14, 18)

Is there a biblical word that sums up God's self-revelation in history? No doubt there is more than one perspective from which to view the subject, but the most frequent employed biblical device for structuring history is the covenant. From the Garden of Eden to the end of the world, God establishes covenants that define His relationship with man, and He never relates to man apart from a covenant. This raises the question about God Himself: Do these covenants reveal God's nature? The answer to that question is given, in part, in the fact that the relationship between the Father and the Son embraces all the elements of the biblical idea of covenant and reveals most deeply its meaning.

The Elements of a Covenant
- - -
Though God reveals Himself in all of His works throughout history, it is appropriate to begin with His glorious manifestation of Himself in Christ, for only in the light of the knowledge of Christ can we grasp, for what it truly is, everything else God has done in history. Jesus is the center of our calendar because He is the center of all. In the Bible the centrality of Christ is seen in the fact that the entire Old Testament era is spent waiting for the coming of the Messiah, with the prophets declaring various aspects of His saving work and proclaiming the glories of His reign and the histories foreshadowing His person and work. From the fall of Adam onward, the whole of biblical revelation is focused on the seed of the woman (Gen. 3:15).

Hierarchy
- - -
When we consider the gospel accounts, especially the Gospel of John, another aspect of God's self-revelation through the incarnation of Christ becomes clear. One of the most frequently repeated themes in the Gospels is that the Father sent the Son into the world (Mt. 10:40; 15:24; Mk. 9:37; Lk. 4:43; 9:48; 10:16; Jn. 3:17; 4:34; 5:23, 24, 30, 36, 37; 6:29, 38, 39, 40; 7:16, 18; and others). This fact has a number of significant implications, but one of the most simple and obvious is that there is a hierarchy within the Trinity. The Father sends the Son. The Son submits to the Father's will. In the words of Jesus, "And He who sent Me is with Me. The Father has not left Me alone, for I always do those things that please Him" (Jn. 8:29). Of course, the very name Father and Son imply the hierarchical relationship, expressed so frequently in the Gospels as Jesus' obedience to the Father His seeking the Father's honor and glory. Though it is not emphasized, the same relationship can be seen between the Spirit and the Son, for the Son, together with the Father, sends the Spirit, and the Spirit glorifies the Son (Jn. 15:26; 16:7, 14).

Hierarchy in relationship means that the Father is greater than the Son in His office only, not in His being. The Father sends the Son, but the Son does not send the Father. The Father and the Son send the Spirit, but the Spirit does not send the Father and the Son. The official hierarchy of the Persons if their eternal relationship. It does not imply that the Son is less powerful or that He does not fully share the omniscience of the Father. On the contrary, the Son and the Holy Spirit possess all the attributes of GOd to the same infinite degree as the Father. The Persons of the Trinity are equal in their being but different in their personhood, existing in a hierarchy of Father, Son, and Spirit.

[sweetangel2128]

It's clear that you have stated that he isn't God, read what you have said....

He doesn't. God talks about homosexuality. Not Jesus.

If you don't say that Jesus isn't God, then what is this?

Jesus was a prophet. I gave you a thousand different references that says that Jesus is God's son and apart of the Trinity. It doesn't make sense that Jesus is 100% God.

????

[*Uronacid*]

Omg, Heath21.. I don't know what to tell you. The Trinity is a contradiction that no-one could ever possibly understand. Each member is individual and part of God at that same exact time. It's another contradiction in the Bible that clearly exists. You just have to have faith that God is powerful enough to make such a contradiction possible.

[sweetangel2128]

Omg.

That term is a sin against one of God's 10 commandments. Do NOT use the Lord's name in vain. Read the 10 commandments.