Createspam, Createblog has created a monster Options

[Tribal J_Rome]

This sound ridiculous, but separate the Lounge into two different forums. One for the "Anonymous Shoutouts" and others like it, and then one for the topics with serious discussion. Yeah, it's a bad idea, but really there's nothing else you can do.

It's a bad idea becuase it won't work.

[pshaa.shauna]

^Mmhmm

That's the point I was making, that's the only option really. And it's a bad option.

[push kicks]

DUH!

That's the point I wa smaking, that's the only option really. And it's a bad option.

why is it the only option?

[Tribal J_Rome]

Then why do it if it wont' work? How is THAT an option?

[pshaa.shauna]

...



I didn't mean for them to actually do it.

[*mipadi*]

I think we have capable and well-intentioned posters. But, I think we need alot more. Although there have been a great number of useful and worthy suggestions relating to the boards, I think our biggest issue is our members. Very few members seem interested in actually creating a strong and meaningful community here. "Drive-by-posting" isn't the worst thing that could happen, but when nearly all the board consists of it, everything becomes characterized by monotony.

That is the problem though: Most of the threads are "drive-by" threads. Look at the first page of any forum; very few of the threads feature actual discussion.

Look in Entertainment, for example. One of the active threads is "What's your favorite band?" or something like that. How much more general can one get? The thread is four pages long now. That's at least 76 posts, maybe as many as 100 replies. Do you think there is any discussion in that thread? Not likely. No one is going to read who 76-100 people like to listen to. No one cares about the majority of the members in that thread (no offense to anyone who posted, but it's the truth). It's not meaningful discussion.

Most of the threads on the first page of The Lounge exhibit the same behavior.

"Drive-by posting" isn't a bad thing if it happens in limited doses, no; but it's out of control on cB, and that is the problem. You're absolutely right when you say that few members seem interested in creating a strong and meaningful community, and that is exactly what I was getting at in the posts I cited back in the first post in this thread. The problem isn't just drive-by posting, but it's that everyone is so focused on that, that no one is interested in actually doing anything interesting. Perfect example: I tend to be verbose in my posting, and I've received a number of responses that say something along the lines of "Wow, I didn't read that whole thing, but…" And that's one post: Think about threads that stretch to two or three pages. No one is going to put effort into reading that, so long threads that require continuous involvement quickly die.

[NoSex]

b' date='Jun 20 2006, 11:26 PM' post='2103497']
But then again, it's only been around 2/3 days that spam has gone overboard ( with me at least ) and cB reacts like this.

I made this post in response to the entire atmosphere and condition of the community forums as of the past few months. This post, despite its topic title, is not just about spam nor was it made solely because of spam related concerns. I made this because I wanted everyone to have an open dialouge on the condition of these forums. I have enjoyed my time here, but have been disapointed recently by the declining quality of Creatblog. I want Createblog to be more welcoming, more enjoyable, more interesting, and more friendly and intimate than it has been.

[Tribal J_Rome]

...
I didn't mean for them to actually do it.

Thanks for wasting our time with that.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

spam is delicious.

the problem is, there aren't enough people to eat it, so it starts stinking.

seriously, without all the idiots on the boards, i would not enjoy it.

but you do have to have people to make snarky remarks in thier general direction.

seriously. spam is delicious.

expecially in debate. i mean, what fun is it when everone agrees? it's better when you have a worthy adversary, but that will almost always end in a stalemate. No, what's fun is when you're up against idiot spammers who stick around to make fools of themselves. Then you can beat them, and feel good about it.

there is , of course, a line between being snarky to spammers and just a plain ass. but hey, all the more fun.

Not this many. It's not right proportionately.


Also, all the new members I notice these days start acting just like them, because to fit in ther's nothing better to do.

[*RiC3xBoy*]

I want Createblog to be more welcoming, more enjoyable, more interesting, and more friendly and intimate than it has been.

Why of course. Back in 04, I remember cB being very welcoming. Everything was very layout heavy. People would make extremely beautiful vectors in which almost everyone seem to enjoy. As obvious as this sounds, I think cB is basically sucked out of fun and now people are getting bored. So people thus create spam in order to entertain themselves.

[NoSex]

"Drive-by posting" isn't a bad thing if it happens in limited doses, no; but it's out of control on cB, and that is the problem.

Absolutely.

So, I think our goal should seem obvious: Discourage meaningless impersonal "drive-by posting," while encouraging meaingful and personal posting.

The problem is exactly how we would do that.
However, I think a fantastic start would be dumping these "drive-by posting threads" into the sanbox and creating rules against highly general and impersonal threads in anywhere but the sandbox.

[*mipadi*]

There's also the point that cB might simply be too big to be a cohesive community. cB has almost 250,000 members, and over 2 million posts. It's hard to keep up with the personal lives of even a fraction of the members on the board on a regular basis. I have no statistics on how many members are active on at least a weekly basis, but even if it's only 0.25%, that's still over 600 active members, which is a lot. That's as large as my high school, and I certainly didn't build lasting bonds with everyone else in my high school.

There might come a point where, yes, a group of members with common interests and goals do have to break off and form their own community, be it another forum, an AIM chat, an IRC chat, or just a close email connection.

Absolutely.

So, I think our goal should seem obvious: Discourage meaningless impersonal "drive-by posting," while encouraging meaingful and personal posting.

The problem is exactly how we would do that.
However, I think a fantastic start would be dumping these "drive-by posting threads" into the sanbox and creating rules against highly general and impersonal threads in anywhere but the sandbox.

Fundamentally, I like that idea. I think it would do a lot to help build bonds. But I also don't like layering more and more rules onto the community. I don't like saying "This is what you can and can't post." I think the community needs to do the work. Don't like "drive-by" threads? Then don't post in them so much. Reward threads that add a personal element to cB by posting in them. Rules can only go so far in shaping a board's personality and culture.

[push kicks]

dude we got like 50 active members, don't worry

[*Statues/Shadows*]

I think I'll start going through old topics to see how things used to be, and what we used to talk about and whatnot. Tomorrow. Now I'm tired. But since we don't have a real idea of how to resolve things, we should at least view these good times to which we refer.

[Hiphop d[-_-]b]

I have just re-started 'Getting to know cB' from there, i think we can all make an effort to start bringing the community closer.

[*Libertie*]

The problem is exactly how we would do that.
However, I think a fantastic start would be dumping these "drive-by posting threads" into the sanbox and creating rules against highly general and impersonal threads in anywhere but the sandbox.

I agree with that.. Actually, I posted it but it's way back on page 2, I'm used to getting overlooked.. but anyway. I think the Lounge should be a place where we can have actual meaningful discussion. Back when we started the "leniency" thing, I thought that if anything, the Lounge should stay as is and the Sandbox needs to be the unmoderated forum. Eh. Anyway, we've pretty much given up on that since it clearly didn't work.

[*mipadi*]

I think I'll start going through old topics to see how things used to be, and what we used to talk about and whatnot. Tomorrow. Now I'm tired. But since we don't have a real idea of how to resolve things, we should at least view these good times to which we refer.

And feel free to bring back any gems you find, or at least use them as inspiration!

[NoSex]

There's also the point that cB might simply be too big to be a cohesive community. cB has almost 250,000 members, and over 2 million posts. It's hard to keep up with the personal lives of even a fraction of the members on the board on a regular basis. I have no statistics on how many members are active on at least a weekly basis, but even if it's only 0.25%, that's still over 600 active members, which is a lot. That's as large as my high school, and I certainly didn't build lasting bonds with everyone else in my high school.

Which is hilarious, because I keep thinking we need more active members.
I think this is because we have so many members that don't ever seem to stand-out or really post anything worthwhile (or anything at all). I'm familiar with a decent amount of members, but only because I see them post everywhere, not really because I have found what they have posted to be interesting (in most cases it's the exact opposite). And, these members seem to show up most in those pesky "drive-by threads."

I think we just need more capable, well-intentioned, and dedicated members. Sometimes it feels like trying to find a needle in a haystack around here.

[Spirited Away]

Absolutely.

So, I think our goal should seem obvious: Discourage meaningless impersonal "drive-by posting," while encouraging meaingful and personal posting.

The problem is exactly how we would do that.
However, I think a fantastic start would be dumping these "drive-by posting threads" into the sanbox and creating rules against highly general and impersonal threads in anywhere but the sandbox.

Discouraging "drive-by posting" means strict rules. While I have no problem with it, I am reminded by Jusun's thread about making the lounge an "anything-goes" zone.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Yeah, I remember a time, maybe a year to a year and a half ago, where everyone on the boards knew eachother and talked to eachother. The community was very tight-knit. And, people still followed rules. It was so much better then...

I think that the amount of active members we have now has made things difficult. When there is a large volume of people, there will inevitably be small "groups" because there's just no possible way that everyone can be friends with everyone.
graphics and html and so on and so forth. The focus is no longer on that. However, CB can still be fun.

Things I feel need to stop, very quickly:
- praising so called "bluntness"; it's not blunt, it's mean.
- spambombing; it's not funny, never has been.
- posting inside jokes from your own CB clique
- stop fighting for the sake of fighting, or entertainment

Things I feel need to happen:
- mods need to crack down on things that are happening so often and are against the rules; username sharing to avoid suspension and spamming are two of those. without cracking down, they'll just continue to happen because people can get away with it.
- more connection between mods & members; mods are sometimes alienated from members and members seem to have an extreme dislike for the mods they don't know and really like the ones they've talked to. i think we all just need to talk more, off the forums. i've been making an effort myself to go into chat more, but since i seem to be one of the most disliked mods for whatever reason, that hasn't changed much...

Yeah, that's all I can come up with right now...

[*mipadi*]

I think we just need more capable, well-intentioned, and dedicated members. Sometimes it feels like trying to find a needle in a haystack around here.

Precisely. I think partly the problem is the over-organization on cB. We have subforums for many, many topics, and I think some people start to post things just because we have a subforum for it, making it hard to find the meaningful threads. There are a lot out there, they're just scattered.

But aside from that, you're exactly right—well-intentioned threads are often drowned out by the habitual posting that happens.

Discouraging "drive-by posting" means strict rules. While I have no problem with it, I am reminded by Jusun's thread about making the lounge an "anything-goes" zone.

You posted my exact thoughts. I'm not in favor of layering more and more rules on cB; I think the community needs to take it upon themselves to reward "good" threads by posting in them and making them active—or making new good threads to replace the old. It shouldn't be a duty of the moderators to enforce good posting, and I also don't think we should sequester good posting into yet another forum.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

I don't think we need more active members, so much as different active members. New blood. Or old blood. Just some change to shift the balance a bit. When Kathleen and Ariel came back for a bit, I enjoyed that, because we made silly topics that served to entertain us, yet weren't exclusive or spam.

A while back in forum games we had "forum dare or dare" which was really fun till we got shut down for making too many stupid topics, but still some interesting stuff came out of it, like the topic I had Sammi make on how to choose a sexual harrassment victim. However, when I tried to bring back the topic, it didn't work, and I am 99.9% that or that sort of thing wouldn't work now, either, knowing people's enthusiasm and what sort of crap they find funny

Which reminds me, the owls in member photos have got to stop. That stopped being funny...well, it wasn't ever funny, but now it's just reallu played out.

[sadolakced acid]

the problem isn't the village idiot. it's we don't have a villiage to properly make fun of them.

[*Statues/Shadows*]

We did until people started caring about Jason. And Jay left a while ago. Yen made friends. Susan got run off. Let's see, who else...

[NoSex]

I think some people start to post things just because we have a subforum for it, making it hard to find the meaningful threads.

I definately agree. The kind of topics (most of which are "drive-by") we have in many of the subforums seem as if they would never have existed given that the subforum was not present. Plus, many of these threads really confuse me as to what everyone's intent is with their creation. It couldn't possibly be a genuine interest, given the nature and way people treat the threads.

But aside from that, you're exactly right—well-intentioned threads are often drowned out by the habitual posting that happens.

Agreed, and that is why I feel we need to start placing these general and impersonal "drive-by threads" inside of the sandbox. However that needs to be done, whether or not that means more rules, I think is becoming necessary. I don't think I could cringe at a rule that will, ultimately, benifit the community greatly without any kind of censorship or extreme control. I mean, the "drive-by threads" could live and breathe, but they would have to find living quarters inside the Sandbox, so that we can have room for more meaningful threads.

I don't think we need more active members, so much as different active members. New blood. Or old blood.

Agreed. We just need some new members who actually remain active and contribute to the community. In order for that to happen, we may need to fix our biggest problems first, so this place is that much more welcoming, entertaining, and interesting - for everyone (or at least, more people, different people. Can't make everyone happy).