Evangelism Options

[*mipadi*]

Are you willing to take Pascal's Wager?

The thing about faith, or belief in a God, is that it can't be forced with logic. Sure, it seems more logical to believe in God than not; but does God reward those who pretend to believe due to logic, those who just go through the motions of believing, or only those who truly believe? For some atheists and agnostics, it's not a matter of not wanting to believe—it's that such a belief makes no sense, and logically trying to get someone to believe isn't going to make him truly believe.

[sweetangel2128]

Are you kidding me? Choosing between actually using the paratute or not is COMPLETELY different. The pilot would be telling you that the plane was going to crash, and you'd be able too look out your window and see that you were going to crash, and you'd probably even feel it just by being in your seat. So obviously the plane is going to crash.

But with salvation, thats totally different. Just because a book written hundreds of years ago, and the new testament written hundreds of years after Jesus's death says something, doesnt mean its necessarily true. Its no different than your parents convincing you that Santa is real. You wake up Christmas morning and there's presents under the tree, and he ate the milk and cookies you left out for him, so he's obviously real, right?



Plus, if God is all knowing like the Bible says he is, then he knows everything thats going on now, and what will happen in the future, correct? Correct. Just like he knows what we're going to have for breakfast next week, who we're going to marry, ect. So if he knows all that, he'd have to know if someone is going die without trusting in him. So if God is really all knowing, and you have to be saved to go to heaven, then it sounds to me like salvation is pre-determined. If it wasnt, he'd throw out curve balls and make sure that no one passed away without knowing him (thats assuming he's the kind and loving God he claims to be). How pathetic is that? Thats why I dont believe it.

I totally agree 100%

Are you willing to take Pascal's Wager?
Make a new thread for each rule you disagree with.
If it is true that God exists and that the "rules" are to be followed, then you are in a bit of trouble.
Spiritual life or death?

Firstly, what is Pascal's Wager? I can't answer that since I have no clue what it is or who Pascal is for that matter...I've never heard of that term before.

Secondly. Why would I have to make a thread for each rule I disagree on? Clarify.

Thirdly, It's not gonna matter cause I'll be dead and we DO NOT know if God exists or his rules exist, whats the point of worrying about it and worshipping something JUST because you fear what will happen in the end. Heck, if God did exist I would hope I'd love him for what he did, not because I fear Hell.

Life after death isn't important...your dead, you don't feel anything so what does it matter?

[kimmytree]

^ EXACTLY. Its not like the streets are going to paved with gold and all that crap. Heaven/Hell is like a state of mind. Personally, I believe its going to be like being asleep - and like a never ending dream. If you've been a decent person, you're going to have happy dreams of your life... things you've done, places you've been, and of your family/friends. But if you've been a bad person, you're going to relive and dream about all the bad things you've done (which is a mental state of hell, I guess).

So I guess no actual heaven or hell, just a state of mind.

[sweetangel2128]

^ EXACTLY. Its not like the streets are going to paved with gold and all that crap. Heaven/Hell is like a state of mind. Personally, I believe its going to be like being asleep - and like a never ending dream. If you've been a decent person, you're going to have happy dreams of your life... things you've done, places you've been, and of your family/friends. But if you've been a bad person, you're going to relive and dream about all the bad things you've done (which is a mental state of hell, I guess).

So I guess no actual heaven or hell, just a state of mind.

That is a good point.

However, I don't quite believe in that...to be honest I don't know what to believe in which is why I chose to be Agnostic...I just believe what I believe and think what I think. I think theres a HUGE possibility of Heaven and Hell and God existing. I just don't believe what the Christians are teaching, such as God having all these rules. And for all we know there might not even be a God or even an afterlife...maybe just like you were putting it, it's a dream and were in a long deep sleep

[kimmytree]

But the thing is, the only thing that gives us the idea of a Hell is the Bible... without it, is there any reason to even begin to believe in one? I dont really see any reason to even consider there being one, or any remote place of extreme suffering. We're only human, right? I think we all pretty much go to the same place... but like I said before, the quality of our state of mind largely depends on how we've lived our lives here on earth.

But who knows, I'm sure whatever lies ahead of us will be just fine.

Oh, I hope you dont mind me asking, but what makes you think that there's a possibility of there not being a God or supreme figure? Just wondering... you dont have to answer.

[sweetangel2128]

But the thing is, the only thing that gives us the idea of a Hell is the Bible... without it, is there any reason to even begin to believe in one? I dont really see any reason to even consider there being one, or any remote place of extreme suffering. We're only human, right? I think we all pretty much go to the same place... but like I said before, the quality of our state of mind largely depends on how we've lived our lives here on earth.

But who knows, I'm sure whatever lies ahead of us will be just fine.

Oh, I hope you dont mind me asking, but what makes you think that there's a possibility of there not being a God or supreme figure? Just wondering... you dont have to answer.

First of all, I don't think the Bible is the cause of us assuming theres a Heaven or Hell, I was brought up to believe both existed but not from the Bible...the thing that makes me think God could exist is the way everything is, lets see the brain capacity, how smart people are, how perfectly the earth is formed. I read in an article that if we had been just a little bit closer to the sun..just a little that the earth would burn up...or if we had just a little bit less gravity or something like that that we wouldn't exist...I mean if you look at the nature you will find it hard to believe "something" up there doesn't exist.

Why do I believe theres a possiblity of God NOT existing..because I am an open minded person and I believe evolution could of happend while God could of also happend. It's just what I believe. It's weird cause I'll believe that Evolution could of happend but I look at all the beautiful nature and see the things the way they are and I wonder - "Maybe there is a God, theres gotta be". But the reason I chose to be Agnostic because I am unsure of his existance.

As for us all going to one place...maybe. But I also believe if Heaven does exist, then surely Hell must existance too and God definitly does exist if Heaven does. But, my other question that confuses the hell out of me, if God does exist, where'd he come from? Someone had to of created him and made him God? Where'd he come from? The Bible doesn't explain that, it just talks about why we should follow God and what happends if we don't.

[sdingfelder]

From Heath21:
This is a discussion about religion and religion is not based on life or death, not having a parachute is.

The two are exactly the same. We're all in a plane that is going to crash. Your life will, in fact, end one day. You have no idea when. You have no idea if you'll be sleeping in your seat or not.

Isn't it rather silly to consider somone on that plane saying, "Oh, no thank you. I don't need the parachute. I'll be able to survive the crash without it. Now, please stop bothering me. I'm really enjoying the in-flight movie."

In the same exact way, everyone reading this knows that their lives could end abruptly. Some may think it's a fear-tactic, but is it not true ?? Does anyone truly believe they're not going to taste of death some day ? It's going to happen -- without question. No one can guarantee they'll be here next year -- next month -- or, even, tomorrow. You can't even guarantee your next heartbeat or your next breath.

You're on a flight through this life. You get the opportunity to walk around the aisles, get a snack, even watch a movie now and then. But that plane's going down some day. You have to realize & consider that.

Are you so sure of yourself that you think you could survive that crash without taking the one way promised to save you from the fall to come ?

From happykmd:
Are you kidding me? Choosing between actually using the paratute or not is COMPLETELY different. The pilot would be telling you that the plane was going to crash, and you'd be able too look out your window and see that you were going to crash, and you'd probably even feel it just by being in your seat. So obviously the plane is going to crash.

...and is it a news flash to you that you, as well as everyone, will have their lives end one day ? It doesn't take a pilot or teacher or parent to tell you that you're going to die. You can look in the mirror (as opposed to the window) and see you're getting older. Do you not think that that's going to end some day, as well ?

From happykmd:
But with salvation, thats totally different. Just because a book written hundreds of years ago, and the new testament written hundreds of years after Jesus's death says something, doesnt mean its necessarily true. Its no different than your parents convincing you that Santa is real. You wake up Christmas morning and there's presents under the tree, and he ate the milk and cookies you left out for him, so he's obviously real, right?

Where'd you get your information re: the dates of the writings of the Old and New Covenants ? It's unfortunate that you're basing your comments on misinformation.

As for the whole Santa thing: I couldn't agree with you more. I didn't grow up with Santa. In fact, that was used as one of the reasons my father would imply that Christians were, in effect, pagans.

From happykmd:
Plus, if God is all knowing like the Bible says he is, then he knows everything thats going on now, and what will happen in the future, correct? Correct. Just like he knows what we're going to have for breakfast next week, who we're going to marry, ect. So if he knows all that, he'd have to know if someone is going die without trusting in him. So if God is really all knowing, and you have to be saved to go to heaven, then it sounds to me like salvation is pre-determined. If it wasnt, he'd throw out curve balls and make sure that no one passed away without knowing him (thats assuming he's the kind and loving God he claims to be). How pathetic is that? Thats why I dont believe it.

Wow. So you've jumped from not even believing the Bible is a document authored by God to the question of predestination !! Very impressive.

I would highly recommend that, instead of musing on whether or not God knows if you'll accept His Son, you simply get right with Him first. As we all have, you've broken His Commandments. At some point, you've lied, you've stolen, you've dishonored your parents. In fact, by the words you chose above, you've blasphemed Him by not giving Him the reverence He deserves. We're all guilty.

If that upsets you, then consider the person on trial for heinous crimes and as the bailiff is describing the charges against him, this person simply spouts out vile words. Out of pride, this person shows their disdain for the court procedures and he displays his lack of respect for the judge. How do you think the judge will look upon that ?

If you reject the conscience that He gave you as you recognize that you've broken His Laws, you're no different than that prideful, angry person in the example above. It is God's compassion that can allow you to leave the courtroom free. It is God's unending love that brought Him to the cross on which He died.

On the other hand, it is God's righteous judgment that will send those who shake their fist at His righteousness to a place worse than Hell. It's called the Lake of Fire. If you don't get right with the Lord, you might want to read up on your eternal destiny -- Revelation 20 & 21.

Please don't think that I enjoy saying that to you. It's the same destiny that I would have if it weren't for the Gift He's offered and that I accepted. It grieves me to think that anyone here might harden themselves so much that they reject Him.

From Heath21:
Heck, if God did exist I would hope I'd love him for what he did, not because I fear Hell.

I couldn't agree with you more.

You should "love Him for what He did". You should love Him with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. You should love Him for giving you the life that you currently enjoy. You should love Him for giving you the blessings each day that you take for granted. You should love Him for sending His Son to die on a cross for the sins you've committed against Him and the conscience that He gave you.

You should also fear Him for it is He who can judge you rightly. You should fear Him for it is He who can send you to the Lake of Fire for breaking His Commandments.

That all said in order to distinguish between a "tear-filled" convert and a "fear-filled" convert, respectively.

But after enough discussions with you, Heath21, I know you'll reject this.

From happykmd:
Its not like the streets are going to paved with gold and all that crap. Heaven/Hell is like a state of mind. Personally, I believe its going to be like being asleep - and like a never ending dream. If you've been a decent person, you're going to have happy dreams of your life... things you've done, places you've been, and of your family/friends. But if you've been a bad person, you're going to relive and dream about all the bad things you've done (which is a mental state of hell, I guess).

So I guess no actual heaven or hell, just a state of mind.

Yes, those are your personal beliefs. Nothing to substantiate your own imaginations. Nothing other than your own thoughts of how it could be.

It is interesting that your God-given conscience comes out in this that you've instituted your own sense of justice in your imaginary eternity. If you've been a "good person", then you'll have "happy dreams". If you've been a "bad person", you'll "relive and dream about all the bad things you've done". Even you believe in a form of judgment for those who've "done bad".

How does this form of righteousness get implemented or enforced ? Who's the judge of who's done "good" or "bad" ? Unless you're going to bow a knee to the One, True Judge, you'd have to say that it's for each person to determine -- it'd be along the lines of situational ethics. Each person's going to say that they're a good person, so everyone would have "good dreams".

The Bible teaches that none are good -- not you -- not me. We've all lied, stolen, blasphemed, looked with lust, etc. We're all guilty and, applying your logic, we deserve "bad dreams" for eternity after death. There'd be no way to get the "good dreams" that I'm sure you believe you'll be having.

Again, even your imaginary version of eternity has justice. Something determines "good" from "bad". Are you the judge of that ? If not, who is ?

[kimmytree]

Wow. So you've jumped from not even believing the Bible is a document authored by God to the question of predestination !! Very impressive.

NO, I was giving the assumption that IF it was true. Big difference.

I would highly recommend that, instead of musing on whether or not God knows if you'll accept His Son, you simply get right with Him first. As we all have, you've broken His Commandments. At some point, you've lied, you've stolen, you've dishonored your parents. In fact, by the words you chose above, you've blasphemed Him by not giving Him the reverence He deserves. We're all guilty.

Have you not gotten it through your head yet? I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I DO NOT BELIEVE THAT THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD. So I could care less if the Bible says I'm breaking one of His Commandments, because they arent really his commandments at all. Some average Joe like me and you wrote that, not God.

On the other hand, it is God's righteous judgment that will send those who shake their fist at His righteousness to a place worse than Hell. It's called the Lake of Fire. If you don't get right with the Lord, you might want to read up on your eternal destiny -- Revelation 20 & 21.

Like I said above. Its useless at this point to throw crap like that out.

It is interesting that your God-given conscience comes out in this that you've instituted your own sense of justice in your imaginary eternity. If you've been a "good person", then you'll have "happy dreams". If you've been a "bad person", you'll "relive and dream about all the bad things you've done". Even you believe in a form of judgment for those who've "done bad".

How does this form of righteousness get implemented or enforced ? Who's the judge of who's done "good" or "bad" ? Unless you're going to bow a knee to the One, True Judge, you'd have to say that it's for each person to determine -- it'd be along the lines of situational ethics. Each person's going to say that they're a good person, so everyone would have "good dreams".

The Bible teaches that none are good -- not you -- not me. We've all lied, stolen, blasphemed, looked with lust, etc. We're all guilty and, applying your logic, we deserve "bad dreams" for eternity after death. There'd be no way to get the "good dreams" that I'm sure you believe you'll be having.

Again, even your imaginary version of eternity has justice. Something determines "good" from "bad". Are you the judge of that ? If not, who is ?

God, genius. He is all powerful, and the only one who can judge us. There's no doubt in my mind that he exists, just not in the way the Bible potrays him (once again, not really the word of God).

No one can ever be sure what the afterlife is really like, I'm just assuming, the same thing your doing. What harm is there in that?

Okay, like you said, assuming we're all sinners, thats because Eve ate the fruit in the Garden of Eden and God punished mankind? Yeah right, give me a break. Thats just some silly fable. If i really did happen, Adam and Eve obviously did know right from wrong if they ate the fruit, something God told them not to do. But if they didnt know right from wrong, then how could God punish them for that then? And either way, how could God punish mankind like that for the Serpet (Satan) tempting them? Once again, isnt God all powerful? He must not be then if Satan had the power to do that.

[sweetangel2128]

The two are exactly the same. We're all in a plane that is going to crash. Your life will, in fact, end one day. You have no idea when. You have no idea if you'll be sleeping in your seat or not.

As we all have, you've broken His Commandments. At some point, you've lied, you've stolen, you've dishonored your parents.

If you don't get right with the Lord, you might want to read up on your eternal destiny -- Revelation 20 & 21.

You should "love Him for what He did".

You should also fear Him for it is He who can judge you rightly.

But after enough discussions with you, Heath21, I know you'll reject this.

The Bible teaches that none are good -- not you -- not me. We've all lied, stolen, blasphemed, looked with lust, etc.

How is Religion and Death the same thing or how is a Parachute and God the same thing? They are NOT the same. You are talking about 2 different things. One we do NOT need religion to survive or have a good life or to reassure us of anything.

At some point we've broken his commandments? Yeah if there real but we don't know that for sure and to tell someone who doesn't even believe in A God that would just laugh in your face because if they don't believe in God they obviously don't believe in the 10 commandments or the Bible either.

Now...why would someone who is happy believing in what they believe in get right with the Lord? You act like we've sinned a million times and were gonna go to this aweful place for being just who we are...that's bullcrap. Secondly, why would someone who doesn't believe in the Bible and what it says read that verse you gave us? Pointless.

And I will love him for what he did when I know 100% for sure he exists.

If God does exist, I do fear him because he is powerful and can change anything in the snap of his fingers but I also feel if he's all loving that I have nothing to worry about.

I'm rejecting this because it's a bunch of crap and because I have my own beliefs and I hate people who try to convert others which is what your doing.

I disagree with that if the Bible says that because not everyone has stolen...I have never stolen or murdered anyone in my whole entire life..I have lied though and I have looked at someone in lust...but I don't think any of those are bad, lying sometimes is for a good purpose, ever heard of a white lie? It's a little white lie, something that doesn't hurt another person. So for you to sit there and say that everyone steals, murders, blasphemies ect is bad..it's bullcrap. Not everyone does all that stuff or never has. And who cares if someone Blasephemies? I think people like you just need to let people be and let them believe in what they WANT to believe in.

It's funny how every Christian thinks there religion is the right way and the ONLY way yet theres all these other religions and beliefs and Christianity has so much contradicting and corruption in it it's not even funny.

Okay, like you said, assuming we're all sinners, thats because Eve ate the fruit in the Garden of Eden and God punished mankind? Yeah right, give me a break. Thats just some silly fable. If i really did happen, Adam and Eve obviously did know right from wrong if they ate the fruit, something God told them not to do. But if they didnt know right from wrong, then how could God punish them for that then? And either way, how could God punish mankind like that for the Serpet (Satan) tempting them? Once again, isnt God all powerful? He must not be then if Satan had the power to do that.

I agree it's all so a bunch of crap.

I've also thought this way why would Adam and Eve be the cause of us all to be sinners? That doesn't make any sense and why would an ALL LOVING GOD AND ALL KNOWING judge us for our whole lives or punish us just because of someone else's mistake, that's not fare as for all knowing...since he is SUPPOSEDLY all knowing wouldn't he know that this was going to happen. ???????

[kimmytree]

^ Thats right.

I cant wait to see how he'll respond next.

[sweetangel2128]

^ Thats right.

I cant wait to see how he'll respond next.

LMAO!! Yeah, even though he makes me angry and I hate people like that I actually look forward to this posts

[sdingfelder]

From happykmd:
No one can ever be sure what the afterlife is really like, I'm just assuming, the same thing your doing. What harm is there in that?

Not at all. I'm not assuming in any way.

You've chosen to reject the Bible based on what you think are problems / contradictions. You accepted thata data and were satisfied not to consider how those are false accusations to the Book He authored. So, you have nothing other than assumptions to base your beliefs on.

From happykmd:
If i really did happen, Adam and Eve obviously did know right from wrong if they ate the fruit, something God told them not to do. But if they didnt know right from wrong, then how could God punish them for that then? And either way, how could God punish mankind like that for the Serpet (Satan) tempting them? Once again, isnt God all powerful? He must not be then if Satan had the power to do that.

Follow-up from Heath21:
I've also thought this way why would Adam and Eve be the cause of us all to be sinners? That doesn't make any sense and why would an ALL LOVING GOD AND ALL KNOWING judge us for our whole lives or punish us just because of someone else's mistake, that's not fare as for all knowing...since he is SUPPOSEDLY all knowing wouldn't he know that this was going to happen. ???????

A loving parent must discipline their children in order to train them. How can disobedience be rewarded ?

God did tell Adam not to eat the fruit, but He didn't tell Eve. Eve was deceived, but Adam made the choice to disobey God and follow Eve. It was for Adam's disobedience that they were kicked out of the garden.

Everyone has to make a choice either to follow God or to follow Satan. Currently, as you choose to reject God, there's only one other that you're following. The Bible calls these people "children of wrath".

Heath21, nothing says that God is "all loving". I think we've discussed this before. God cannot love righteousness and love unrighteousness. He can only love one of these. He loves righteousness and, therefore, hates unrighteousness. If you don't have His righteousness, he hates you. That's how loving He is.

The Bible does say that He's all-knowing, though, so good job on recognizing that. He even knows the secrets that you haven't shared with anyone. Those things which you're too embarrassed to tell anyone -- He knows them and you'll have to answer to Him for it when you stand in front of Him.

Of course He knew all that would happen. He even knew that at the time of you writing your last post that you'd be thumbing you nose at Him by using words like "SUPPOSEDLY" in terms of His omniscience. In case you didn't recognize it, that's blasphemy.

From Heath21:
I disagree with that if the Bible says that because not everyone has stolen...I have never stolen or murdered anyone in my whole entire life..I have lied though and I have looked at someone in lust...but I don't think any of those are bad, lying sometimes is for a good purpose, ever heard of a white lie? It's a little white lie, something that doesn't hurt another person. So for you to sit there and say that everyone steals, murders, blasphemies ect is bad..it's bull----. Not everyone does all that stuff or never has.

Stealing (the 8th): This really depends on what you'd consider stealing. If you're thinking that not everyone has robbed a bank, you're right.

Consider the fact that stealing means taking something that doesn't belong to you. It has nothing to do with the value of that which was taken. It could be a pencil. It could be a piece of gum. Bottom line is that it wasn't yours.

Would I be any less of a thief if I took a dollar bill out of your wallet versus taking a 20 dollar bill ? Not at all. I would be a thief -- plain and simple.

Murder (the 6th): Consider your earlier post: "even though he makes me angry and I hate people like that". So, you're obviously implying me -- that's quite alright. I don't hate you back, though. I know you reject what Jesus said in that if you hate someone, you're guilty of murder.

Looking with lust (the 7th): Your honesty is commendable, but it doesn't take away the sentence of guilty.

Lying (the 9th): You might be getting discretion and deception confused. Discretion is telling someone that they look great in their new outfit. Deception is just that -- it's deceiving / bearing a false witness -- saying that you didn't do something that you know you did or that you did do something when you didn't. The term "white lie" is a word used to take away from the severity that you lied. Bottom line -- you lied and, therefore, you're a liar. It only takes one lie to make you a liar. Just like me.

Blasphemy (the 3rd): Have you never used the Lord's name instead of a 4-letter curse word ? Have ever said OMG as opposed to giving the God that gave you life the proper respect and adoration that He deserves ? That's blasphemy.

Idolatry (the 2nd): Realize that in coming up with your own god in your own head (and this applies not just to you, Heath21) you're also guilty of idolatry. You've formed a god of your own liking -- one that's accepting of that which you accept. In fact, your god is subservient to you since you dictate what he/she/it teaches.

From Heath21:
And who cares if someone Blasephemies? I think people like you just need to let people be and let them believe in what they WANT to believe in.

The God who gave you breath cares. And, since I'm supposed to love that which He love and hate that which He hates, I care.

Believe me, it'd be much easier for me not to care. Unfortunately, that's the problem with those who call themselves Christians but they aren't. As an actual Christian, I'm being obedient to Him in caring enough to have "people like you" hate me (as you said earlier).

I could much easier let others believe "what they WANT" and know that their promised destiny will be a place of eternal torment and anguish. Knowing that, how can I keep it to myself -- even with people like you, Heath21.

From Heath21:
It's funny how every Christian thinks there religion is the right way and the ONLY way yet theres all these other religions and beliefs and Christianity has so much contradicting and corruption in it it's not even funny.

It is funny how every true Christian believes the same way, isn't it ? It is funny how it's not something they originally would've thought of on their own.

I'd love to be able to honestly say that everyone's getting to Heaven. I'd absolutely love it. But the Bible says something completely different.

So, for all those true Christians who state what the Bible says to be true: that Jesus Himself said that He's the only way means that they're representing Him well.

Just because there are many religions doesn't mean anything. I hope you'd agree that they can't be all right. In the same regard, just because they're not all right doesn't mean that one isn't.

As for the your comment -- "Christianity has so much contradicting and corruption in it". You're talking about people and not the teachings of Christ. The people who call themselves Christians and are corrupt are not Christians.

[sweetangel2128]

God did tell Adam not to eat the fruit, but He didn't tell Eve. Eve was deceived, but Adam made the choice to disobey God and follow Eve. It was for Adam's disobedience that they were kicked out of the garden.

Heath21, nothing says that God is "all loving". I think we've discussed this before. God cannot love righteousness and love unrighteousness. He can only love one of these. He loves righteousness and, therefore, hates unrighteousness. If you don't have His righteousness, he hates you. That's how loving He is.

Correction. When you say fruit you gotta specify what you mean. In the Bible (and yes I still read it) it says that there were two trees in the garden of eden one was the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Adam was created first, hence the word - "man" in "woman". After Adam was created, God created Eve. Before he created Eve though he did create the Garden of Eden. God did warn Adam not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil but he could eat from the tree of life freely. If he ate from the other tree he would surely die. Read Genesis - "chapter 3" it states that the woman in fact was the cause of all sin not the man...she brought Adam the fruit from the tree of knowledge, he didn't know it was that fruit and that the Devil told Eve it was good and they would be more like God if they ate from the tree of knowledge. I was actually surprised you got that one wrong since you seem to be so into the Bible and God. Oh and just to let you know so I don't get you mixed up...God punished Eve for listening to the snake/serpent, the serpent was punished for tricking eve and adam was punished for believing the woman when God told him not to eat that fruit.

Second correction. God never said that he hated unrighteous people. God LOVES ALL. Have you heard of the woman in the well in the Bible? If not, it's about this woman who was a prostitute, she went against EVERYTHING God said yet he still loved her and never turned her away. I can't remember what verse it was in but I do know it's in there and it's also in the movie - "Passion of The Christ" which I do have. The only being that God doesn't love is Satan but he does love his people "us" no matter what we have done, no matter if we hate him or not...that's why they say he's very loving and all knowing.

And...I never denied God or Jesus, I just said I am unsure of his existance, I said theres a possibility of God existing but a possibility of evolution existing too. Denying Christ is when you know for a fact that God exists but deny his love. I haven't done that. I am NOT denying him...I don't deny he exists ect...

I'd love to be able to honestly say that everyone's getting to Heaven. I'd absolutely love it. But the Bible says something completely different.

The Bible doesn't state who goes to Hell or that if we don't follow him we go there. It says that our only way of knowing the Father - God is to get to him through Jesus, his son and savior. This says nothing about Hell. What do I get out of that verse? I believe what he's saying is that Jesus died on the cross so that we might know God's love for us and understand it...if we learn of Jesus we learn of God's love...but it doesn't mean or pertain to anything about Heaven in that line.

As for the your comment -- "Christianity has so much contradicting and corruption in it". You're talking about people and not the teachings of Christ. The people who call themselves Christians and are corrupt are not Christians.

I never said anything about the people, read my post again, I said theres a lot of corruption and contradictions in the religion of Christianity that doesnt mean I mean people so please don't put words in my mouth. You obviously haven't studied the Bible enough, it is full of contradictions.

[silly ol' man]

Funny, as an agnostic I've always thought the truculent people in this dichotomy were the Christians defending against the marauding unbelievers. In this instance, ScottD is quite dignified, and everyone going "LMAO I SO TOTALLiE AGREEZ0RZ" has proven me wrong once again.

/end random, proceed with the idiocy.

[sweetangel2128]

Everyone has to make a choice either to follow God or to follow Satan. Currently, as you choose to reject God, there's only one other that you're following. The Bible calls these people "children of wrath".

Murder (the 6th): Consider your earlier post: "even though he makes me angry and I hate people like that". So, you're obviously implying me -- that's quite alright. I don't hate you back, though. I know you reject what Jesus said in that if you hate someone, you're guilty of murder.

I could much easier let others believe "what they WANT" and know that their promised destiny will be a place of eternal torment and anguish. Knowing that, how can I keep it to myself -- even with people like you, Heath21.

First of all. Just because someone chooses not to believe in God or follow his rules doesn't imply he's with Satan. I believe Satan is evil and I hate him but just because I dropped my religion, the Christian religion and chose to be this person who chooses not to worry whether he exists or not doesn't imply I worship Satan..I do not worship Satan and I am NOT with him. I'm a good person in the fact that I try to do good in life and I try my hardest to stay away from things that I see as being bad things.

I don't care what the Bible says about murder...the Bible if it's true is EXTREMELY old and there definition and our definiton today about murder are TOTALLY different things. I do not find hating someone for what they do or even hating someone in general is murder...murder is when you take someone's life physically.

Just because someone chooses not to believe in what you believe in doesn't imply there going to a bad place...you ARE NOT the judge of that, God is and what do you mean by "people like you". ????

[sdingfelder]

From Heath21:
Correction. When you say fruit you gotta specify what you mean. In the Bible (and yes I still read it) it says that there were two trees in the garden of eden one was the tree of life and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Correction: There were many more trees in the garden than just 2. (Genesis 2:9; Genesis 2:16)

From Heath21:
Adam was created first, hence the word - "man" in "woman". After Adam was created, God created Eve. Before he created Eve though he did create the Garden of Eden.

Clarification: Even before He created Adam, He created the garden. (Genesis 2:15)

From Heath21:
God did warn Adam not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil but he could eat from the tree of life freely. If he ate from the other tree he would surely die.

Clarification: Adam could not only eat from the tree of life, but from every other tree that bear fruit other than the tree of the KOGAE (Genesis 2:16-17)

From Heath21:
Read Genesis - "chapter 3" it states that the woman in fact was the cause of all sin not the man...she brought Adam the fruit from the tree of knowledge, he didn't know it was that fruit and that the Devil told Eve it was good and they would be more like God if they ate from the tree of knowledge. I was actually surprised you got that one wrong since you seem to be so into the Bible and God. Oh and just to let you know so I don't get you mixed up...God punished Eve for listening to the snake/serpent, the serpent was punished for tricking eve and adam was punished for believing the woman when God told him not to eat that fruit.

What verse in Genesis 3 are you using to show that Eve was the cause of all sin and not Adam ? I'd love to see that in whatever version of the Bible you're using. You're assuming that because Eve was the first one to eat of THAT fruit, that she was held responsible. Your assumption is wrong. Consider the discipline that Eve's given (Genesis 3:16) versus that which Adam's given (Genesis 3:17-19). Also, notice that the Lord sends Adam out of the garden -- no mention of Eve (Genesis 3:23-24) -- even though, it's obvious she follow in-tow. Finally, look at Romans 5:12 -- "...by one man sin entered into the world...". Since you were so astute as to notice the difference in the spelling of "man" and "woman", please note that sin entered into the world by one man.

Yes, she did bring the fruit from the tree of the KOGAE, but what verse are you using to tell yourself that Adam didn't know that it was THAT fruit ?? Look at Genesis 3:11 -- who is the Lord speaking to ? He's speaking directly to Adam. He says to Adam, "Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat ?" Genesis 3:13 shows that the Lord asks Eve what she's done as you ask a child knowing what they've done.

Yes, God did punish Eve for being deceived, but look at Genesis 3:17. Adam is the one that is the Lord says specifically that He had commanded Adam. He never says that to Eve, does He ?

As for your surprise that I "got that one wrong": If you'd like to have a real Bible study on Genesis 3, I'd be more than happy to correct you on all your misunderstandings. Since I imagine that others reading this are most likely sick of Bible-talk, it might be best to have this Bible study via PM.

In terms of surprise, I'm actually taken aback that you'd even site Genesis 3 since you're living the life that Satan himself approached Eve with. Satan's first words in the Bible are "Yeah, hath God said ?" The prince of lies' first words were to question whether or not God really said something. Aren't you doing the same thing ? You don't believe His Word. You may still read it, but you've admitted before that you don't believe it and you "don't care what the Bible says" about murder, specificallly. But, honestly that applies to more than just the Bible's definition of murder, doesn't it. Your previous comments point immediately to you using your intellect to say things like "the Bible if it's true is EXTREMELY old and there definition and our definiton today about murder are TOTALLY different things."

Here's somthing I'd like for you to consider - seriously: You're previous post recognizes that Adam and Eve were punished. Further, recognize that nowhere does God state that He ever commanded Eve not to eat from the tree of the KOGAE. Knowing this, Eve was punished simply for being deceived into believing that God didn't really say what she had been told that He actually had said. Do you really think that He won't punish those who have heard that same question and been similarly deceived -- as you have ?

"Yeah, hath God said..."

From Heath21:
Second correction. God never said that he hated unrighteous people. God LOVES ALL. Have you heard of the woman in the well in the Bible? If not, it's about this woman who was a prostitute, she went against EVERYTHING God said yet he still loved her and never turned her away. I can't remember what verse it was in but I do know it's in there and it's also in the movie - "Passion of The Christ" which I do have. The only being that God doesn't love is Satan but he does love his people "us" no matter what we have done, no matter if we hate him or not...that's why they say he's very loving and all knowing.

...and what verse do you get "God LOVES ALL" from ? Please show me that verse. Seriously, you need to read Matthew 13:42, John 3:18, Colossians 1:21, Revelation 21:8.

Amazing.

The woman at the well ? She was humble enough to be honest that she'd broken the 7th Commandment.

The prostitute ? You mean the one where the Lord was merciful enough to say to the religious hypocrites "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." She, also, was humbled through the 7th Commandment. Where did you get the idea that "she went against EVERYTHING God said" ? Was she brought to Jesus because she was being accused of bearing false witness ? How about theft ? How about idolatry ? No, not at all. She was brought because she was caught in the act of adultery. The hypocrisy of the religious leaders was shown in the fact that they brought the woman, but where was the man ? She certainly couldn't have broken the 7th Commandment by herself -- there was no internet then.

Why aren't you similarly humbled ? You've said in previous posts that you practice premarital sex and you're not willing to turn from it.

How about the rich young ruler (Mark 10:17) ? How about the lawyer (Luke 10:25) ? The Law was used to confront their pride and they weren't humble enough to reject their sins. They turned away and did not follow the Lord.

How about you ?

As for God loving "his people 'us' no matter what we have done, no matter if we hate him or not..." If you're not a child of God, the Bible says you're a child of wrath (again, Ephesians 2:3). You're believing a lie if you think He loves people whether or not they love Him or hate Him. That's nowhere in the Bible. Nowhere.

As for "...that's why they say he's very loving and all knowing.": You're right. That's what "they" say. "They" don't use the Bible to see who and what God loves. "They" similarly don't use the Bible to see who and what God hates. "They" are wrong. Dead wrong.

From Heath21:
And...I never denied God or Jesus, I just said I am unsure of his existance, I said theres a possibility of God existing but a possibility of evolution existing too. Denying Christ is when you know for a fact that God exists but deny his love. I haven't done that. I am NOT denying him...I don't deny he exists ect...

So, you say you haven't denied Jesus. You're unsure. Your personal definition of denying Christ is sweet, but please recognize it's your own definition. Cults and false religions say that don't deny Christ, but they redefine Him. They don't use the Bible to recognize who He is and what He's done. You're doing the same exact thing. You're redefining who He is. You use the same name, but it's not the same Person. Don't deceive yourself. Just because you recognize that He lived doesn't mean you believe He is who He said He is nor that He did what He claimed He did. Please read Matthew 12:30.

From Heath21:
The Bible doesn't state who goes to Hell or that if we don't follow him we go there. It says that our only way of knowing the Father - God is to get to him through Jesus, his son and savior. This says nothing about Hell. What do I get out of that verse? I believe what he's saying is that Jesus died on the cross so that we might know God's love for us and understand it...if we learn of Jesus we learn of God's love...but it doesn't mean or pertain to anything about Heaven in that line.

Again, John 3:18. You should read it a few times.

I really should be thanking you, Heath21. I learn so much through my discussions with you. I do appreciate your time in responding and showing so much of the thoughts you have. I haven't been able to talk with anyone so much to get the picture that you've shown me. I've never been able to talk with someone who could read only parts of the Bible and claim to know the Bible's full teaching. I've never been able to talk with someone who could accept even less parts of the Bible and still claim to have not denied the Lord. Finally, I've never been able to talk with someon who had create their own personal religion based on the little they've read from the Bible and the-even-less-of what they've accepted from the Bible.

You say that "Jesus died on the cross so that we might know God's love for us and understand it". That's a pretty good summation of John 3:16. Problem is that you don't want to go two verses down and read John 3:18 to know that you're already condemned.

I'm pretty sure I've asked you something like this before: So, you believe He died on the cross so you could know God's love. Basically, then, you believe that God's love is so impotent that Jesus' death on the cross was an act that had no effect. He just died to show love. What ?? That's ridiculous !! He died to fulfill the need for blood to be shed for the remission of sins (Leviticus 17;11, John 1:29, John 1:36, Hebrews 9:22). Plain and simple.

From Heath21:
You obviously haven't studied the Bible enough, it is full of contradictions.

Clearly, my Biblical studies pale in comparison to yours. Clearly, since you've stated in the past that you live your life not as the Bible says, but as you see appropriate I need to re-evaluate my existence and consider that I may be living a more difficult life that God wants for me. Clearly, since your endless studies have gotten you to the point that you "don't care what the Bible says" about certain topics, I should assimilate your worldview and attend the "Heath21 Bible School".

As an aside, how come you never responded to my answering the "contradictions" you pointed out before ? I gave you the opposing view of those silly statements and you didn't address them in any way.

From Heath21:
First of all. Just because someone chooses not to believe in God or follow his rules doesn't imply he's with Satan. I believe Satan is evil and I hate him but just because I dropped my religion, the Christian religion and chose to be this person who chooses not to worry whether he exists or not doesn't imply I worship Satan..I do not worship Satan and I am NOT with him. I'm a good person in the fact that I try to do good in life and I try my hardest to stay away from things that I see as being bad things.

Again, read John 3:18. Read Ephesians 2:3. The Bible says that you are a child of wrath. I never said that you "worship Satan" -- you simply follow him.

As for being a good person: You must use that term loosely because you're basing it on self-righteousness and not God's righteousness. You admit that you try to do good. But you could always do better, couldn't you ? But you don't. You "try your hardest to stay away" from those things that YOU see as being bad, yet you don't stay away from those things that God sees as bad. Still, you could try harder couldn't you ? But you don't.

From Heath21:
I don't care what the Bible says about murder...the Bible if it's true is EXTREMELY old and there definition and our definiton today about murder are TOTALLY different things. I do not find hating someone for what they do or even hating someone in general is murder...murder is when you take someone's life physically.

Yet another "proof text" from your own fingertips and you "don't care what the Bible says". Again, please stop deceiving yourself. You clearly reject what the Bible says. Matthew 5:22 addresses your personal definition of murder.

From Heath21:
Just because someone chooses not to believe in what you believe in doesn't imply there going to a bad place...you ARE NOT the judge of that, God is and what do you mean by "people like you". ????

I've said it before: You're right. I'm not the judge. But I know of the judgment to come and you reject the message of your coming sentence of guilt.

As for what I mean by "people like you": You used the term first. Search for "I think people like you just need to let people be and let them believe in what they WANT to believe in." It's pretty clear based on the context of what I wrote to know what I meant by "people like you", Heath21. I was simply responding in kind.

[sweetangel2128]

First of all, sorry this kinda crappy job but the stupid thing wouldn't lay it out right so just take our time reading it =]

[quote name='ScottD' date='Feb 8 2007, 5:47 AM' post='2449074']
Correction: There were many more trees in the garden than just 2. (Genesis 2:9; Genesis 2:16)[/quote]

I never said there were no other trees, I only brought up the tree of life and the tree of knowledge because that is what were discussing right now.

Clarification: Even before He created Adam, He created the garden. (Genesis 2:15)[/quote]

Just because it says he was placed in the garden of eden doesn't imply he created the garden of eden before adam was created, nowhere in that verse does it state when the garden was created.

Clarification: Adam could not only eat from the tree of life, but from every other tree that bear fruit other than the tree of the KOGAE (Genesis 2:16-17)[/quote]

I know that but like I stated at the first quote, I was mentioning the 2 trees that are in question not everything else.

What verse in Genesis 3 are you using to show that Eve was the cause of all sin and not Adam ? [/quote]

If you would of read further you would of read my correction on that...the sin was created by all three - the snake, the woman and the man.

Yes, she did bring the fruit from the tree of the KOGAE, but what verse are you using to tell yourself that Adam didn't know that it was THAT fruit ?? [/quote]

I also corrected myself on that one too...he did know it was the fruit.

Yes, God did punish Eve for being deceived, but look at Genesis 3:17. Adam is the one that is the Lord says specifically that He had commanded Adam. He never says that to Eve, does He ? [/quote]

No that one was not in there but if you read past that it says that Eve is telling the snake that God said not to eat from that tree, what makes you think God didn't tell her after she was created? Just because it doesn't state it doesn't imply he didn't say anything to her.

As for your surprise that I "got that one wrong": If you'd like to have a real Bible study on Genesis 3, I'd be more than happy to correct you on all your misunderstandings. Since I imagine that others reading this are most likely sick of Bible-talk, it might be best to have this Bible study via PM. [/quote]

I am not interested because I don't do Bible Studies anymore and for your info this isn't a Bible study, I am not studying anything I am pointing out facts of the Bible that I have read and what misunderstandings? If anything I think your wrong and confused about what it says.

In terms of surprise, I'm actually taken aback that you'd even site Genesis 3 since you're living the life that Satan himself approached Eve with. [/quote]

You have no right to tell me I'm living any kind of life and secondly...I am not living a life with Satan but a life that consists of myself and I am happy the way I am =]

Here's somthing I'd like for you to consider - seriously: You're previous post recognizes that Adam and Eve were punished. Further, recognize that nowhere does God state that He ever commanded Eve not to eat from the tree of the KOGAE. [/quote]

True. But that doesn't mean he didn't warn her.

...and what verse do you get "God LOVES ALL" from ? [/quote]

I didn't find it in the Bible but from a man that has been studying the Bible for 40 years, a pastor. He said that God loves all no matter how much someone hates him except Satan of course. If you don't think so, look at Jesus, he loved all and when he was on the cross dying while they hurt him he told God to forgive them for they don't realize what there doing...but if you read in the chapter of John it also states that Jesus is God and God is Jesus, they are one. What do I get out of that? Well, that God loved everyone so much that he sent Jesus to earth to die for our sins.

The woman at the well ? [/quote]

I was told by another Christian woman that has been a Christian for a long time about the woman in the Well when I said she disobeyed everything god said...I meant all the sins she committed yet he still accepted her and never turned her away, he never hated her.

Why aren't you similarly humbled ? [/quote]

Because I believe there is a "possiblity" that the Bible is false and not true, but I do not know that for sure...I prefer to live my life for myself rather then a book.

As for God loving "his people 'us' no matter what we have done, no matter if we hate him or not..." If you're not a child of God, the Bible says you're a child of wrath. [/quote]

I don't care what it says, I am not following Satan.

As for "...that's why they say he's very loving and all knowing.": You're right. That's what "they" say. "They" don't use the Bible to see who and what God loves. "They" similarly don't use the Bible to see who and what God hates. "They" are wrong. Dead wrong. [/quote]

Inncorrect. The Bible does state this...for one like I stated before he sent Jesus to die on the cross to forgive us of our sins because he loved us that much because he realized we were sinful and secondly, he is all knowing, he knows when your awake, he knows when your asleep, he knows what your going to eat that day, what your thinking..ect...

So, you say you haven't denied Jesus. You're unsure. Your personal definition of denying Christ is sweet, but please recognize it's your own definition. Cults and false religions say that don't deny Christ, but they redefine Him. They don't use the Bible to recognize who He is and what He's done. You're doing the same exact thing. You're redefining who He is. You use the same name, but it's not the same Person. Don't deceive yourself. Just because you recognize that He lived doesn't mean you believe He is who He said He is nor that He did what He claimed He did. Please read Matthew 12:30. [/quote]

I am NOT denying him and I just choose not to believe and base my life on a book. That doesn't mean I deny him though. It just means I am unsure if the book is real.

I really should be thanking you, Heath21. I learn so much through my discussions with you. I do appreciate your time in responding and showing so much of the thoughts you have. I haven't been able to talk with anyone so much to get the picture that you've shown me. I've never been able to talk with someone who could read only parts of the Bible and claim to know the Bible's full teaching. I've never been able to talk with someone who could accept even less parts of the Bible and still claim to have not denied the Lord. Finally, I've never been able to talk with someon who had create their own personal religion based on the little they've read from the Bible and the-even-less-of what they've accepted from the Bible. [/quote]

I never claimed I knew the Bibles teachings and I've read more than little parts of it. I never said I accepted little parts of the Bible and just because your not a Christian doesn't mean you can't read it. And lastly, I have NOT created my own religion. I am merely choosing my own beliefs such as believing in myself and believing what I think God might be. Having your own beliefs and having an actual "religion" are two different things.

You say that "Jesus died on the cross so that we might know God's love for us and understand it". That's a pretty good summation of John 3:16. Problem is that you don't want to go two verses down and read John 3:18 to know that you're already condemned. [/quote]

How am I condemned? Explain that to me. Yes, I do believe that God sent Jesus to die on the cross so that we might know God's love...I never said that was his whole purpose of him dying on the cross...he did die for our sins which I get out of that is showing us his love for us because he loved us so much that he felt he needed to save the world of there sins...ect...

He died to fulfill the need for blood to be shed for the remission of sins (Leviticus 17;11, John 1:29, John 1:36, Hebrews 9:22). Plain and simple. [/quote]

Yes, I know that!

Clearly, my Biblical studies pale in comparison to yours. Clearly, since you've stated in the past that you live your life not as the Bible says, but as you see appropriate I need to re-evaluate my existence and consider that I may be living a more difficult life that God wants for me. Clearly, since your endless studies have gotten you to the point that you "don't care what the Bible says" about certain topics, I should assimilate your worldview and attend the "Heath21 Bible School". [/quote]

First of all, it's not my studies that got me to where I am. But my own beliefs. I tried my hardest to follow the Christian religion but can't because it's not who I am. What "Heath21 Bible School" are you talking about? Are you on something? Not trying to be rude but ummm...you should know by now I'm not a Christian which means I don't believe in Bible studies...so I do not support a Bible School...but your free to join - "Heath21 Live For Yourself Class" it's actually pretty fun you should try it sometime =] =]

As an aside, how come you never responded to my answering the "contradictions" you pointed out before ? [/quote]

Because I was sick at the time, had forgotten it later on and I felt it was pointless plus I had other stuff to do at the time.

I never said that you "worship Satan" -- you simply follow him. [/quote]

I DO NOT FOLLOW SATAN. How many times do I have to tell you this? You have no right or no place to tell me who I'm following when you do not know me. Get facts before you assume.

As for being a good person: You must use that term loosely because you're basing it on self-righteousness and not God's righteousness. You admit that you try to do good. But you could always do better, couldn't you ? But you don't. You "try your hardest to stay away" from those things that YOU see as being bad, yet you don't stay away from those things that God sees as bad. Still, you could try harder couldn't you ? But you don't. [/quote]

How would you know if I don't exceed or not..your not me. And yes I do live for my own ways of what I think is being good..like I said I'm not a Christian.

Again, please stop deceiving yourself. You clearly reject what the Bible says. [/quote]

I am not deceiving myself and you have no right to judge whether I am or I am not. Yes, I do reject what the Bible says, as I said before, I live for myself not a book and I do not know if it's real.

I've said it before: You're right. I'm not the judge. [/quote]

Then stop judging.

I do have one question though if the Bible is real then how come they've only found bits and pieces of scrolls and they have a whole book? Where'd they get there info? And what proof do you have that it is real? Besides your Faith????

[kimmytree]

^ Agreed. I wish I could reply to everything since my last post, but I've got tons of exams to study for ehhh... but one thing though :

As for God loving "his people 'us' no matter what we have done, no matter if we hate him or not..." If you're not a child of God, the Bible says you're a child of wrath (again, Ephesians 2:3). You're believing a lie if you think He loves people whether or not they love Him or hate Him. That's nowhere in the Bible. Nowhere.

So are non Christians children of wrath? Would that include Jews?
Wow, that has to be like the most twisted thing I've ever heard.

Okay, your totally taking the verse out of context and interpreting it to your own advantage. Here's EXACTLY was the verse says, according to the King James Version -

"Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others."

You know what that says to me? That we USED to be children of wrath. (IE, before Christ died for us). Try to defend yourself on that one.

Oh, and lets continue on and see what the Bible has to say after that verse.

2:4 - But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
(see, that contradicts what you said earlier - he does love us all)

2:5 - Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, by grace ye are saved.

I think that last verse says it all. Heck, go ahead and read the rest of the chapter. It says NOTHING about having to accept Jesus to go to Heaven... and mentions absolutely NOTHING about being damned if you dont.

Owned.

(Oh - Heath, is your real name Heather? lol)

[sweetangel2128]

happykmd - yeah my names heather =] your kimberley right?

Ok Scott. After I got off the computer this afternoon I decided to do some research in the Bible on certain topics you mentioned. Heres what I found and what I believe.

First, you stated that the Garden of Eden was in fact created first and that Adam was created after and you had given me a verse that really doesn't explain that. Heres the verse I found that does explain it -

Genesis 2:7-8
7: And the Lord God formed a man's body from the dust of the ground and breathed into it the breath of life. And the man became a living person.

8: then the Lord God planted a Garden in Eden, in the East, and there he placed the man he had created.

Both of those verses tell me that Adam was in fact created first and then the Garden of Eden and then Eve was created seeing that Adam was lonely.

Secondly, you stated that the Bible says that Adam was only banished from the Garden of Eden but it doesn't mention Eve at all being banished. Incorrect. Heres the verse:

Genesis 3:23

23: So the Lord God banished Adam and his wife from the Garden of Eden, and he sent Adam out to cultivate the ground from which he had been made.

Next, you had stated that God doesn't love everyone and only the righeous people and hated the unrighteous. Heres the verse that shows me that God loves everyone even the unrighteous.

John 3:16-17

16: For GOD so LOVED the WORLD that he gave his only son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.

17: God did not send his son into the world to condemn it but to save it.

In this verse I believe when they say the "world" that includes EVERYONE not a select few.

Last but surely not least you say that everyone who doesn't follow God will be punished eternally in Hell. This next verse shows that that doesn't happen.

John 3: 18.

18: There is no judgement awaiting those who trust him but those who do not trust him have already been judged for not BELIEVING in the only son of God.

Basically, what I get out of this is that there saying that there is judgement for those who don't believe, meaning when you die you will have a meeting with God, that's YOUR judgement day and it also states that you will be judged and punished if you DO NOT believe in God..it says nothing about not following his rules but just believing and lastly it also doesn't clarify what your punishment will be. It says nothing of Hell in that verse. And something I'd like to clarify is that I never said I didn't believe in God, I said I am unsure, there is a difference!

In case your wondering where I got this info and what Bible. It was the New Living Translation and it says on the front: "Holy Bible, Living Water for those who thirst". If you don't believe what I'm saying to be true and in the Bible look up the verses at - "www.biblegateway.com" it's rather accurate.

[kimmytree]

Ahhh lol i've been wondering that for awhile!
Yeah, my name's Kimberly.

Its hilarious how he's claiming you (or both of us for that matter) dont know our Bible.

But honestly, I'm starting to worry over why some 40 something year old man is on a site like this.

[sweetangel2128]

Ahhh lol i've been wondering that for awhile!
Yeah, my name's Kimberly.

Its hilarious how he's claiming you (or both of us for that matter) dont know our Bible.

But honestly, I'm starting to worry over why some 40 something year old man is on a site like this.

Are you serious he's really 40 something? I was thinking much younger then that. Anyways...yeah it is quite hilarious he claims we don't know the Bible when I've pointed at several things he was wrong on that he claimed he knew about i'll be back later to check for his answer though..lol.

[kimmytree]

^ Ahhh I think so! I know previously he's told someone that him and his wife were praying for them, ect ect. Maybe he really isnt? I just remember him saying something that gave me the impression that he was older.

I hope not though.

[sweetangel2128]

[size=1][size=1][size=1]

kimberley - well just because he's married doesn't mean he's older but who knows.

Scott - ...I also forgot to bring this up in my list of things I found in the Bible, this is more like a question for you but you said in your post that one man sinned and caused the sin of the world if that is so then why does it say that Adam and Eve both sinned? If it was just one man then why is Eve even mentioned in the Bible. I believe that the sin of the world was in fact caused by Adam AND Eve, not just one person.

You also said Eve didn't know of the fruit..later on it says that she told the snake that God told them not to eat from that tree or they'd die. So obviously she did know about it.

[kimmytree]

^ Thats true... :/
I just get the vibe that he's older though. lmao.

Well, to me the Bible seems a little sexist... you know, man being over the woman. Its been like that all over the world for hundreds/thousands of years, and is still that way in many cultures.

Just like with one of the verses you posted, it reffered to Eve as "his wife". Idk, It just seems like men were of more importance, so maye thats why they refer to man (like in mankind)?

[sweetangel2128]

^ Thats true... :/
I just get the vibe that he's older though. lmao.

Well, to me the Bible seems a little sexist... you know, man being over the woman. Its been like that all over the world for hundreds/thousands of years, and is still that way in many cultures.

Just like with one of the verses you posted, it reffered to Eve as "his wife". Idk, It just seems like men were of more importance, so maye thats why they refer to man (like in mankind)?

Yeah very true. I mean look at the term "God" they see him as being a Man and the fact he's all powerful. But what they don't understand is that God could VERY well be a woman or maybe he is of no gender...I believe that God is neither man nor woman. For all we know God could just be a beam of light...like people have told me God created Jesus which is him in the flesh because God himself is too bright for us to see him.

One other thing that doesn't make sense to me is when God told Adam and Eve not to eat from that tree because they'd die but the thing is they didn't die from eating from the tree, they were punished but not by death. Wouldn't God be lying? and isn't lying sinful?