the importance of truth Options

[ComradeRed]

Um...okay...O'Brian.

Anywho, numbers aren't the greatest example for truth. They are merely figures set into our brains which can ultimately be substituted for other figures. You will know that the Holocaust took place because people witnessed it. You will know truth because there is evidence; not simply because everyone thinks it is so. Look at Columbus...everyone believed him that the earth was flat, but he was later disproved.

During Columbus, not everyone htought the Earth was flat. He thought the Earth was round. I mean literally everyone.

If, tomorrow, all record of the Holocaust were destroyed, and everyone forgot about it, then no one could prove it existed. Thus, it would be accurate to say that the Holocaust never happened. Truth is collective perception.

[EmeraldKnight]

Truth is usually something set in stone, something that happened. "Tell the truth." Means to tell the facts correctly. I don't think truth is opinion. Truth is fact, and you can go either wrong or right.

Something that happened... but doesnt our knowledge of past events all rely on things others have recorded/left behind? I mean.. things could've happened in the past, but with no knowledge of it, we accept those to be false, and that is a mistake

If, tomorrow, all record of the Holocaust were destroyed, and everyone forgot about it, then no one could prove it existed. Thus, it would be accurate to say that the Holocaust never happened. Truth is collective perception.

What? I'm confused on your argument.. simply because no evidence exists doesnt mean that it never happened.. thats how science works.. we search for evidence to prove a theory true, just because we havent yet found the evidence doesnt mean that its false... i mean, taking Columbus as a reference.. in his time and before, everyone (excluding him) thought the earth was flat, but that doesnt mean its truth.. truth is undeniable fact.. if i say I'm talking right now, but since you cant hear me, you dont know if its true or not.. thats my whole point.. just because we dont have evidence doesnt mean that its still not true.. it just means that we havent yet found a way to prove it true or false

[ComradeRed]

Something that happened... but doesnt our knowledge of past events all rely on things others have recorded/left behind? I mean.. things could've happened in the past, but with no knowledge of it, we accept those to be false, and that is a mistake

What? I'm confused on your argument.. simply because no evidence exists doesnt mean that it never happened.. thats how science works.. we search for evidence to prove a theory true, just because we havent yet found the evidence doesnt mean that its false... i mean, taking Columbus as a reference.. in his time and before, everyone (excluding him) thought the earth was flat, but that doesnt mean its truth.. truth is undeniable fact.. if i say I'm talking right now, but since you cant hear me, you dont know if its true or not.. thats my whole point.. just because we dont have evidence doesnt mean that its still not true.. it just means that we havent yet found a way to prove it true or false

Truth is what you believe it to be. If you search for evidence to prove a theory, and never find anything, everyone will conclude that it's not true.

Might it be true? Yes. But if everyone thinks it's not true, then you can't prove it is.

[For those of you who haven't been abel to tell yet: I'm playing Devil's (or BB's) Advocate. Hence the references to "Winston" and "O'Brien" read 1984 it's worth it."

[EmeraldKnight]

Might it be true? Yes. But if everyone thinks it's not true, then you can't prove it is.

How can't you? Everyone in Columbus's time denied the fact that the Earth is round, Columbus proved them wrong.. thats how science advances.. new research and new evidence is constantly being discovered that proves true what ppl once thought wasnt true

Truth is what you believe it to be. If you search for evidence to prove a theory, and never find anything, everyone will conclude that it's not true

But if you find it later on? Like with the Coelocanth (however you spell it ); its a fish that everyone thought was extinct.. and ppl later found living specimens.. thus proving later on, that its true

[ComradeRed]

How can't you? Everyone in Columbus's time denied the fact that the Earth is round, Columbus proved them wrong.. thats how science advances.. new research and new evidence is constantly being discovered that proves true what ppl once thought wasnt true


But if you find it later on? Like with the Coelocanth (however you spell it ); its a fish that everyone thought was extinct.. and ppl later found living specimens.. thus proving later on, that its true

Yes you can prove something is true DOWN THE LINE. But AT THE MOMENT, that thing is true.

[EmeraldKnight]

Yes you can prove something is true DOWN THE LINE. But AT THE MOMENT, that thing is true. 

Its accepted to be true, that doesnt mean it actually is

Truth:

the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality

(from www.m-w.com)

Just because we dont know the facts for sure, doesnt mean that it isnt true

Just because we dont know that something happened in the past, we cant deny that it happened, we cant say that "Dinosaurs arent alive today" simply because we havent seen them.. the word "truth" is often mangled in society, like with the judicial system, the better argument is accepted to be "true" even though that may not have been how things realli have happened

[ComradeRed]

Its accepted to be true, that doesnt mean it actually is

Truth:
(from www.m-w.com)

Just because we dont know the facts for sure, doesnt mean that it isnt true

Just because we dont know that something happened in the past, we cant deny that it happened, we cant say that "Dinosaurs arent alive today" simply because we havent seen them.. the word "truth" is often mangled in society, like with the judicial system, the better argument is accepted to be "true" even though that may not have been how things realli have happened

But if everyone thinks something is true, then what does it matter if it actually is or not? If everyone in the world thinks they saw me fly, and I said I flew, what makes a difference if I did or not?

That's why so many people believe in ghosts and UFOs, Winston.

[EmeraldKnight]

But if everyone thinks something is true, then what does it matter if it actually is or not? If everyone in the world thinks they saw me fly, and I said I flew, what makes a difference if I did or not?

Hm.. so if I were to brainwash everyone into thinking that their sole purpose in life was to serve me, would it not be important that they realize the truth? I mean.. isnt that the entire point of science? to find the real truth? I mean.. just thinking about it now.. I guess since you're more of a debater, the illusion might be more important to you so you can manipulate ppl or something, lol but for science, isnt the actual truth and understanding the more important thing?

That's why so many people believe in ghosts and UFOs, Winston.

Oh and my name's Eric btw.. I dont know who Winston is

[ComradeRed]

Hm.. so if I were to brainwash everyone into thinking that their sole purpose in life was to serve me, would it not be important that they realize the truth? I mean.. isnt that the entire point of science? to find the real truth? I mean.. just thinking about it now.. I guess since you're more of a debater, the illusion might be more important to you so you can manipulate ppl or something, lol but for science, isnt the actual truth and understanding the more important thing?

Oh and my name's Eric btw.. I dont know who Winston is

Winston is a reference to 1984. I'm playing Devil's Advocate here.

In 1984, the Oppressive Dictatorship Government re-writes history -- like the Bush Administration is doing now (they are making Reagan out to be a Bushie, when in fact Reagan, while influenced by neo-Cons, was not a neo-con and used much more restrained foreign policy) -- and basically said that the Truth is what the Party wanted it to be. They deleted history basically by destroying the records and brainwashing people.

Winston is the main character in the novel.

[EmeraldKnight]

erm... I'm confused now.. what are you trying to say?

[ComradeRed]

erm... I'm confused now.. what are you trying to say?

Ok to be brutually honest, I agree with you, truth is truth regardless of what people say.

It's just that the title of this thread was so stupid, almost amusingly, that I had to roleplay, you know?

If you've ever read 1984, you'll know what I'm talking about. If not, you can read www.newspeakdictionary.com -- it's the next best thing.

[EmeraldKnight]

Ok to be brutually honest, I agree with you, truth is truth regardless of what people say.
It's just that the title of this thread was so stupid, almost amusingly, that I had to roleplay, you know?

lol well you did a very nice job of defending the other side (which is what i'm doing in other topics, just not as good of a job as you)

If you've ever read 1984, you'll know what I'm talking about. If not, you can read www.newspeakdictionary.com -- it's the next best thing.

I'll try the site.. my friend told me not to read 1984 cuz it sucked

[ComradeRed]

lol well you did a very nice job of defending the other side (which is what i'm doing in other topics, just not as good of a job as you)


I'll try the site.. my friend told me not to read 1984 cuz it sucked

haha I liked 1984. It depends on if you get it or not. A lot of people hate it. But a lot also like it.

[EmeraldKnight]

haha I liked 1984. It depends on if you get it or not. A lot of people hate it. But a lot also like it.

haha alright, i'll give it a shot.. i think we've basically exhausted this topic just about now though, wow.. that was a lot of intense debating are around.. addicting too

[angel-roh]

That's what I believe, Julia, but they're saying that it is whatever you choose to believe, which is part of it, yet itruth is still proven.

true i agree. i also read ur other post kathleen. hmm well heh this topic is not that important for me to discuss but i guess um... watever ppls want to believe in i guess they can jus believe it. there are some scientist, mathemetician, teachers, astronomers, etc... they might end up telling something...but sometimes for us, it will be very hard thing to believe like believing God.

[jue]

truth matters beacuse if there werent truth; then everyone would be living in a life of lies and such. They would be lied to by there loved ones and they would also be lying. Truth is what rings people closed together; without truth; everything woulkd be caotic.

[rOckThISshYt]

I think there is truth behind some things and you can't identify truth or falseness in some things. I usually like concrete evidence with things. Just because someone tells me that there's a god doesn't make it true. Just because it's writen down in some book doesn't make it true. I mean, I used to kneel at the edge of my bed every night with my mom a pray to god. I'm atheist now because I've been able to have an indipendant mind from my parents. They don't mind that I'm atheist because neither of them are very religious.

But it matters because everyone would be so ignorant without it. I mean, if no one cared about truth, where would we be medicly? There would be no tests on diseases and people would still be dying at the age of fourty from the common cold. I mean, truth matters because it advances people every day.

[XoJennaoX]

haha...i really forgot which philosopher said this but i love it and it will probably tick some people off but here is goes anyway.

Believing in something is the same as NOT believing in something
For this philosopher (sorry i really can't recall the name) an aethiest is just as blind as a religous person....neither has any more actual knowlege on the subject of "truth" than the other, a religous person has "faith" and an aethiest has "skepticism" and thats it!

The point IS you never know!
.... maybe believing in a God is better, even if He is false. Or maybe believing in nothing is better, even if that is false....

I agree with this thats why i don't label myself under either