education crisis, saw it on oprah Options

[*CrackedRearView*]

does the order of president really matter?
but then again its kinda sad to see that a girl from another country can answer that question, but kids that are from america can't. I think i also heard somewhere that like people who take the US citizen test thing, they know more about america's history then people who originate from here.

Thinking about this, maybe education does need some changes. 'Cause im noticing me, myself slacking off in school. From the previous years to now, my grades have gone down like heck. =T

The ability to rattle off the names of the first five presidents of the United States does not equate to intelligence, however, and it is certainly not indicative of any problem with American students. It's really all about the person you're quizzing. You have to realize that shows like Oprah display an immense amount of selection bias and that the experiments they conduct on that show are hardly viable indicators of anything.

1) Oprah is on TV because she gets enough ratings.

2) Oprah gets ratings because of edgy, grippy shows (much like the one aired about the state of the United States' education system).

3) Those specials are edgy and grippy because they display extreme amounts of inadequacy (often misleading amounts at that).

4) Without displaying the absolute extremes, Oprah doesn't get ratings and henceforth, doesn't have a show.

Again, I could name all 43 U.S. presidents and I'm not Asian, but it has a lot to do with the fact that I'm a political nut. Surveys like the one conducted on Oprah take ratings and money into account and not circumstance and truth.

[marzipan]

but then again its kinda sad to see that a girl from another country can answer that question, but kids that are from america can't. I think i also heard somewhere that like people who take the US citizen test thing, they know more about america's history then people who originate from here.

that's why i stated the president thing. guys, i wasn't saying it was a way to decide someone's intelligence. like i said, i just created this thread to discuss what your opinions are on education in the US, etc.

[*Indiscriminate Soul*]

Personal interests has a lot to do with knowing the first five presidents. I personally have no interest in U.S. history...so I don't know the first five presidents. Intelligence and the quality of education are hard to measure I think. Standardizing people is something I don't like.

[*mipadi*]

Having spent a couple years in college, I am inclined to agree that, for the most part, the public school system in the United States is not as good as it could be, for several reasons:

1. Standardized tests. Much of the educational resources go towards teaching students to do well on standardized tests. As a result, students' attentions are focused on rote memorization, not acquiring actual skills (e.g. problem-solving or truly understanding a concept). Standardized tests reward those who can spit back information in a standard way—not necessarily the same people who are "outside the box" thinkers, which is the type of thinking that thrives in the real world.
2. Exceptional students are not encouraged to learn. Emphasis is placed on catching failing students up to their peers, but in public high schools, exceptional students are not encouraged to be lifelong learners—once they get older, at least. For example, in my school, I was in the gifted program. From first to fifth grade, I had a special class every week for half a day. We learned lots of cool stuff I never learned in school: Fibonacci numbers, Pascal triangles, roots, Venn diagrams, the Dark Ages and the Renaissance, how to make movies, stuff about art and literature, and so forth. It was a lot of fun, and I was really encouraged to learn about things on my own. Every year each of us did a big research project that was actually fun because we got to do whatever we wanted. We also had an "Invention Convention" where we invented a new gadget, and a problem-solving night.
   
   Of course, that ended when I got to middle school. Suddenly, it seemed like no one cared if I learned. I wasn't really encouraged to excel. By high school, everything was so easy for me that I ended up never doing any work, which put me at a disadvantage in college. I blame a lot of it on the fact that the school didn't do a lot to encourage me to learn on my own, yet no one ever told me that I wasn't applying myself hard enough. I had a 4.0 GPA—how was I supposed to know I was being lazy? Plus I was a high school kid. I wanted to hang out with friends. And since I was doing well in school, how was I to know I was putting myself at a great disadvantage?
3. No Child Left Behind. This is sort of a combination of 1 and 2. No Child Left Behind focuses on poor students, while largely ignoring exceptional ones. It also places great stress on teachers to teach for tests, rather than to teach for life (and lifelong learning). It looks good in politics, but absolutely fails in the real world.

I went to a public high school, and graduated 7th in a class of 140. I go to a nice private school where a large percentage of students went to private schools or prep schools for high school. Honestly, I often feel like the "dumb kid" compared to them, and largely feel its because of the lackluster secondary education I received.

The US educational system is not terrible, not in the least, but there are a few key areas where it could stand to improve.

[x1049]

We watched that in my Sociology class. It thoroughly disturbs me that a girl from China can name off the first five American Presidents with minimal difficultly, and some students in the U.S. start off with Lincoln as their first guess.

>_<

[imnoxonesmemory]

i'm english. i've heard PUBLIC schools in the US are pretty bad. i saw someone said that "who cares they're history" or something, referring to the presidents. but some people would consider it very important to know the history of their country>!

[*disco infiltrator*]

I agree with Michael wholeheartedly. I had a gifted program for one year of elementary school, 5th grade, and we didn't really do anything and the only reason the program was in place was because my mom begged them. It was taken away after I went to middle school. I suffer now as a result of never having to try or do any work throughout all of elementary and middle school. I'm still not used to having to do homework. I used to be the "smart girl" in my grade - everyone would come to me for help, everyone would look up to me, all of my teachers loved me...now I'm ranked 34 out of my class of 135. I'm sure if I had been kept at MY pace of learning as a youngster, I would be much higher now.