Does bush suck? Options

[x rOck mai sOcks...]

i really dont appreciate it when ppl talk all this smack about the pres. i mean, i can understand that you dont agree with anything that he does, and that you may think hes not very intellegent, etc etc...but he is still our president. i mean cmon, have alittle respect, even though you may think he is one of the worst presidents in history or WHATEVER, he is still top authority and we have to respect that. bashing him and saying he sucks and all this nonsense doesnt help any, its just immature

honestly...you have to give him some credit guys..

[xTINAA]

He's slow, but he doesn't suck.
Let's see you handle something as big as 9/11 and pass with flying colors.

- Chinkieeyedpnoi

I know this is an old topic but I never come to the debates forum and so I never got a chance to respond. Anyways I agree with Jose. And also with what someone else said about how it's hard to control the economy and such.

[sadolakced acid]

oh, i don't blame him for 9/11.

i blame him for iraq.

which is entirely his fault.

[iwalkbackwards]

Yes. Yes he does. Watch Farenheit 9-11. Then you'll understand.

[Spirited Away]

Yes.  Yes he does.  Watch Farenheit 9-11.  Then you'll understand.

Read the rest of the thread, as well as the forum rules, maybe you'll understand then. Get out more. Watch the news or read the newspaper instead of just getting your "knowledge" from a biased "documentary".

[sammi rules you]

oh, i don't blame him for 9/11.

i blame him for iraq. 

which is entirely his fault.

*nods in agreement*

[*CrackedRearView*]

Yeah, I nod in agreement, too. I blame Bush for the thousands of jubilant people dancing in the streets of a former totalitarian hellhole at the gratitude of the United States.

I blame Bush for the thousands of people holding up their purple fingertips in triumph at their first opportunity to participate in a free election.

And I blame Bush for the thousands of 'satisfied customers' in that failure that is Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Do you even read U.S. News & World Report? There is a multidude of testimonials of citizens, you get that? Citizens in Iraq who worship the ground our soldiers walk on, and emulate the ideals of the United States with all of the forte in their worn-out being, and for all of that 'failure', I blame Bush.

The one thing I don't blame Bush for is the mass of whining, pampered 'citizens' on our side who have comfortable sheets and pillows to sleep on night in, and night out, have a table full of nutritious food to chow down on night in, and night out, have the luxury of constant electricity, clean water, and safety every day -- who still bitch, and moan about being 'oppressed in a country that peddles freedom as its #1 priority'.

That is the one thing I don't blame Bush for.

[sadolakced acid]

did i say i said iraq was bad?

i'm saying it was poorly executed.

just because we have the army doesn't mean we should be inefficient...

but yes, overthrowing a totalitarian leader who has not attacked anyone in 10+ years is bad.

there are lots of people under totalitarian rule in the world. so why iraq? why liberate them?

[fameONE]

To say Bush sucks and that any of our past presidents were drastically better would be totally naive. However, I do question many of his decisions as our country's commander and chief. For example, Iraq, in my opinion, was necessary to a certain extent. The way President Bush went about doing things, however, is slowly turning this into another Vietnam. But we as Americans cannot be so guileless to believe that choosing a president is not choosing the lesser of two evils.

[*CrackedRearView*]

did i say i said iraq was bad?

i'm saying it was poorly executed.

just because we have the army doesn't mean we should be inefficient...

but yes, overthrowing a totalitarian leader who has not attacked anyone in 10+ years is bad.

there are lots of people under totalitarian rule in the world.  so why iraq?  why liberate them?

Why not? You're disillusioned if you don't think we're giving aid elsewhere.

- Thousands strong in the Sudan.
- Thousands strong in Burma.

Missions in:

- Turkmenistan
- Sri Lanka
- Equitorial Guinea
- Zimbabwe

[sadolakced acid]

aye, and that nice dictatorship/comunist nation on out doorstep, cuba? when are we 'liberating' them?

and north korea, when are we "liberating" them?

and how bout the multitudes of dictatorships in the world?

theres no reason to 'liberate' iraq and not them... well, not a reason that wouldn't be like... they have oil... or something.

[to-devastate]

^ True. I always wondered why things happen when Bush is around. I don't like him but it does make you wonder if he's a good president or not. United States is a strong country; and to be able to hold up that title, we have ALOT to deal with. And that's why we need a good president. I'm not saying Bush is a bad president, but we could always use a better one.

[*CrackedRearView*]

Oh, now it always backs up to the oil.

HOW CORRUPT ARE WE?! OMGZ0R!!1

Not saying that's how you approached the argument, but I always hit this doozie of a challenge.

The United States isn't stupid -- we're using up everyone else's oil before we go into our own sources. What sources, you ask?

Prudhoe Bay, Gull Island, Alaska. There is enough oil under this rock in the ocean for Americans to live off of for 200 years.

Proof? The Energy Non-Crisis by Chaplain Lindsey Williams.

Read up.

[sadolakced acid]

`sigh... that's why i didn't count that as a real reason.

i could come up with tons of reasons like 'they have oil'- not true, but not exactly false either.

1. they have oil, NK doesn't.
2. they don't actually have nukes, we don't want to actually get nuked...
3. they tried to kill daddy bush.

and stuff like that.

total crap reasons to be going into iraq, right?

i accept the whole 'deposing a dictator' thing.

but for that to be the real reason, two things should have also happened.

1. that should have been the original reason, not that they had WMDs
2. all other dictators should be issued an ultimatum.

the lack of these two actions lead me to question the motives of attacking iraq.

bush's administration has done a good job of confusing everyone about the true reason for attacking iraq.

so what is the true reason. it can't really be oil or anything stupid like that, can it?

can it?

[Teesa]

oh, i don't blame him for 9/11.

i blame him for iraq. 

which is entirely his fault.

yes, when 9/11 happened, I was totally on Bush's side..along with the rest of the world..and then he decided to go to iraq for no reason when the center of terrorism was clearly in afghanistan. He is not my president.

[*CrackedRearView*]

Once again, you're disillusioned if you think Omar al-Bashir, Than Shwe, Saparmurat Niyazov, Robert Mugabe, Teodoro Obiang Nguema, and others haven't been issued military ultimatums.

[sadolakced acid]

oh but have we furfilled them yet?

i think not.

[sammi rules you]

fulfilled* is what i think you mean, sweetie. :P

[fameONE]

As a result of the insomnia I previously suffered (benefitted) from, I stayed up all night researching Bush's actions and inactions.

"Liberating" NK would do nothing but provoke war. We have the weapons and then some. 70 Billion spent since 2000 on guns alone, but would it really be wise to provoke an international incident with a country that has turned it's back on their own people just to keep up in the arms race? If NK imported as much food as they did arms, then we wouldn't be talking about fat Americans, we'd be talking about fat North Koreans. Plus, with them haply dealing and bartering with Iran, we must tread lightly.

As for Iraq, here's a scenario for you...
We have a president that is seemingly loved by the majority of the country. Little does the majority know, our president does some shady things behind the scenes (torture, slaughtering women and children, bukkake, etc). The few who know and live to protest it are the ones that would be for a drastic change. So Saddam and his sons send troops over to the US to transform us into a dictatorship much like theirs. They take over military bases and become our official police force. Meanwhile, Jed Bush is killed in a gunfight as well as his father and Dubya is taken to prison, and most likely, kicked around. Our country is in complete chaos, the soldiers are meant to do a job but being human, make mistakes. They sometimes kill the wrong guy or, even worse, the solider isn't a good human being and attacks American people at will. What are you going to do? Sit back and let it happen when you liked the way things were? Or are you going to get a crew together and strap up? I'm not saying its right that Nick Berg got beheaded or that American women were raped in Iraq because hearing that pained my heart. All I ask yous to do is to put it in perspective instead of bashing a side.

[*StanleyThePanda*]

CrackedRearView has taken the words out of my mouth
My opinion is the same.
I like bush.

and umm sadolakced acid are you Atheist? cause if so, then you are the complete opposite of me, I've noticed on every debate thread that I disagree with you...so if your atheist then you are totally opposite of me.

[sadolakced acid]

i subscribe to intellegent design.

and i do not like established religion.

does that count as atheist?

[fameONE]

Religion is always a subject that people can argue for millenias about.

"I love God, I just hate his fanclub."

[*CrackedRearView*]

Actually, the vast majority of the policies we've set out for other 'leaders' to follow have been strictly enforced.

i.e. -- The United States was the driving force in curtailing the escalating situations in the Sudan and Burma.

[sadolakced acid]

Religion is always a subject that people can argue for millenias about.

"I love God, I just hate his fanclub."

note that intellegent design doesn't say anything about belief in god. i don't belive in god. i hate him and his fanclub, to a certain point. i try to be civil about it...

Actually, the vast majority of the policies we've set out for other 'leaders' to follow have been strictly enforced.

i.e. -- The United States was the driving force in curtailing the escalating situations in the Sudan and Burma.

strictly enforced? a majority...

but you see. there are still dictators. and they have not followed our policies. North korea should, by this logic, be attacked and be occupied.

or are we just afraid because they actually do have weapons of mass destruction?

[xTINAA]

yes, when 9/11 happened, I was totally on Bush's side..along with the rest of the world..and then he decided to go to iraq for no reason when the center of terrorism was clearly in afghanistan. He is not my president.

If he is not your president then you have no reason to be in the United States. If you don't agree you can leave. Seriously, back up your statements before saying something like that. Have we not learned in history that this happened times before when the world is with them at one point and then is against them at another. For example when Franz Ferdinand was assasinated and the world was on the side of Austria until they did something. Which caused a world war. I'm not saying that it was good that this caused a world war but I'm just saying that things like this happen in history all the time and sure maybe Bush should learn from it but like Jose said once before in the beginning of the agrument, you try to deal with being a President when something like 9/11 happens to your country and you try to pass with flying colors. Also how do you know they had no real reasons or motives to go into Iraq? Are you involved in the government and do you recieve all the information? We don't receive all the information about everything therefore you can't just say there is no reason for going to Iraq when you really don't know. Anyways, I agree with everything CrackedRearView has said. And sadolakced acid when you say when are we going to liberate Cuba and North Korea (I think those were your examples?) well how do you know that this is not in mind? That possibly they are debating right now what they should do with Cuba and North Korea? Just because you might not hear about it and see what's going on, doesn't mean that something is not being planned for. I mean, I myself, have no reason to believe that they are planning something or not, but you can't totally disregard the fact that they could very well be doing something about both situations.