God Options

[likeachild]

I'm sorry?

I'm not familiar with biblical allusions, let alone analogies...

Isn't the shepard God? Isn't God everywhere? Shouldn't He see everything?

no

it's like a civil war...
and we are living in a part of the universe that is occupied by the rebel

We all know good and wrong right?
there is a basic 'standard' that we all agree upon..

for example
betraying your best friends would never be right, and everybody would agree with that

so you see, we know the law, but we don't obey it

you cant use duality
where there is a good or bad god
cuz then there must be one higher that keeps the two in check

so what is this?

again
it is a war...but not against independent powers
it is a rebellion and we are living in the part of the universe that is occupied by the rebel

[Spirited Away]

what i meant to say is you know how sheperds map out the sheeps plan...well if God is the sheperd...and your out of his eye. I mean that you are not following his individual plan for you that leads to happiness.

So God isn't almighty. He has limits?

[Yemmerz]

No, He doesnt but He doesnt want to force you to do everything He wants. He wants you to live your life your way but under his standards.

[btw, your very active in the forum arent you. hola, im yemi]

anyhoo..he has no standards.

[waccoon]

So God isn't almighty. He has limits?

god is said to be perfect, but he's not. being perfect means that you can do anything, and possess any skill. that means you can foresee the future. foreseeing the future means no free will, because the future cannot be changed. no free will means imperfection. oh no, loophole?

[*krnxswat*]

Isn't the shepard God? Isn't God everywhere? Shouldn't He see everything?

I myself aren't even sure what she's talking about.

[Yemmerz]

god is said to be perfect, but he's not. being perfect means that you can do anything, and possess any skill. that means you can foresee the future. foreseeing the future means no free will, because the future cannot be changed. no free will means imperfection. oh no, loophole?

what do you me that the future can't be changed? everyday we change the future by what we do. with or without God...

if you found the cure to cancer wouldnt that change the future?

sorry seon ho and others with the sheperd stuff...i confuze myself at times too.

[likeachild]

god is said to be perfect, but he's not. being perfect means that you can do anything, and possess any skill. that means you can foresee the future. foreseeing the future means no free will, because the future cannot be changed. no free will means imperfection. oh no, loophole?

Knowing what a child will do (choose to eat ice cream over spinach) does not mean that the child has no ability to make a choice.



God simply knows what you will choose out of your own freedom. Whatever you choose to do, he knows as which are going to choose to do. Whatever you choose is whatever you choose.



Whether or not the person likes the idea of God knowing all things, does not excuse him from the responsibility of his own actions.

so there

*ahem* thanks, everybody, for ignoring all my previous posts

[princess2113]

Jesus is the shepard.....He is everywhere....He sees everything

instead of thinking He favors those in Heaven think abt it this way....we follow Him and love Him. He gave a gift, Jesus....and theres more to that gift. once u open and accept, He gives u the second part:eternal life with ur Gift(Jesus)

Heaven=place with God
if u dont love Him....y do u wanna b with Him...its not all for the golden streets n crystal seas u know....we wanna b with our God...we love Him

[ComradeRed]

Knowing what a child will do (choose to eat ice cream over spinach) does not mean that the child has no ability to make a choice.



God simply knows what you will choose out of your own freedom. Whatever you choose to do, he knows as which are going to choose to do. Whatever you choose is whatever you choose.



Whether or not the person likes the idea of God knowing all things, does not excuse him from the responsibility of his own actions.

so there

*ahem* thanks, everybody, for ignoring all my previous posts

But if someone already KNOWS what you are going to choose ahead of time, that means that you can ONLY choose that. If you choose the other thing, then the predictor's prediction is wrong, thus proving God is not omniscient.

Omniscience means there is only one possible future. If there is only one possible future, there cannot logically be free will.

[IIO__oII]

No, I'm a dragon who consumes sheep of all flocks.

i consider u a wolf in sheeps clothing...

But if someone already KNOWS what you are going to choose ahead of time, that means that you can ONLY choose that. If you choose the other thing, then the predictor's prediction is wrong, thus proving God is not omniscient.

Omniscience means there is only one possible future. If there is only one possible future, there cannot logically be free will.

doesnt OMNISCIENCE mean the knowledge of awareness, understanding, and insight...... of the possession of universal or complete knowledge...?

[Spirited Away]

It's so hard to respond with cB being so slow.

Anyway, how are we out of His eyes if He is said to be everywhere? Omnipotent?

What of the people who believes in God and still suffer? There are many cases of this. I've seen devouts who serve God so faithfully even after tragedies and still suffer.

no

it's like a civil war...
and we are living in a part of the universe that is occupied by the rebel

We all know good and wrong right?
there is a basic 'standard' that we all agree upon..

for example
betraying your best friends would never be right, and everybody would agree with that

so you see, we know the law, but we don't obey it

you cant use duality
where there is a good or bad god
cuz then there must be one higher that keeps the two in check

so what is this?

again
it is a war...but not against independent powers
it is a rebellion and we are living in the part of the universe that is occupied by the rebel

No, there is an exception to every problem. There are cases where you might betray your bestfriend for his/her own good. Perhaps flirting with his/her jerk of a bf/gf so that he/she will see the light. EXCEPTIONS.

Rebellions are not necessarily a bad thing either. The sheep doesn't rebel because it's in its nature to do so, it wonders off because it's curious of the outside world. We're taught to be open minded, the sheep was just trying to be open minded. Is there a sin in that?

[btw, your very active in the forum arent you. hola, im yemi]

anyhoo..he has no standards.

First, yes, I suppose I am. [edit] I'm Fae (a girl). But I'm not as active as some of the people here.

God does have standards: the Ten Commandments.

[IIO__oII]

What of the people who believes in God and still suffer? There are many cases of this. I've seen devouts who serve God so faithfully even after tragedies and still suffer.

yes-- us christians KNOE we are to suffer. this whole world will go against wut we belive cause its contents are all wut satan wants everyone to do.. like popularity, drugs, drinking, judging, etc... =/
we KNOE its gonna be hard being a christian here on this earth.... =]

[Spirited Away]

yes-- us christians KNOE we are to suffer. this whole world will go against wut we belive cause its contents are all wut satan wants everyone to do.. like popularity, drugs, drinking, judging, etc... =/
we KNOE its gonna be hard being a christian here on this earth.... =]

Why do you people spell so weird...... it makes things twice as hard to read and to understand.

Uh, humanists know we are to suffer. No matter who you are, what you believe in, your skin color, your sexual preference, the way you walk/kiss, someone will dislike you for those reasons. It's an imperfect world. No duh.

I'm talking about your miracles. Where are they when the people who love God the most need them?

I myself aren't even sure what she's talking about. 

Oh, I thought that Shepard=God.

[IIO__oII]

Why do you people spell so weird...... it makes things twice as hard to read and to understand.

umm... cause maybe... TEENS spell like that..?

Uh, humanists know we are to suffer. No matter who you are, what you believe in, your skin color, your sexual preference, the way you walk/kiss, someone will dislike you for those reasons. It's an imperfect world. No duh.

I'm talking about your miracles. Where are they when the people who love God the most need them?

they're called TRIALS for us... U (you) KNOE (know)... when we go THRU (through) trials and make THRU (through) EM (them), then we get closer to the Lord.. maybe u guys dont get that cause U (you) RNT (aren't) chrisitans... =/
easier to read?

[Spirited Away]

umm... cause maybe... TEENS spell like that..? 

they're called TRIALS for us... U (you) KNOE (know)... when we go THRU (through) trials and make THRU (through) EM (them), then we get closer to the Lord.. maybe u guys dont get that cause U (you) RNT (aren't) chrisitans... =/
easier to read? 

I hope 'TEENS' don't spell like that when writing their term papers. But anyway, it is kind of hard to understand you (and others) when you write like that. Maybe I'm just slow. But let see how well you can read the following.

Ery1 go thru 'trials'. r u sying dat u hve 2 suffer mre than non-Christians?

Everyone goes through 'trials. Are you saying that you have to suffer more than non-Christians?

Aw, so us non-believers have a better life and we don't receives God's trials.

EDIT// so more than half of the world's population has it easy. Why are we complaining?

[IIO__oII]

I hope 'TEENS' don't spell like that when writing their term papers. But anyway, it is kind of hard to understand you (and others) when you write like that. Maybe I'm just slow. But let see how well you can read the following.

Ery1 go thru 'trials'. r u sying dat u hve 2 suffer mre than non-Christians?

Everyone goes through 'trials. Are you saying that you have to suffer more than non-Christians?

yea that was GOOD. try it sum more.. haha =]

Aw, so us non-believers have a better life and we don't receives God's trials.

EDIT// so more than half of the world's population has it easy. Why are we complaining?

dunno.. ppl are selfish.
dont u agree?

[Spirited Away]

yea that was GOOD. try it sum more.. haha =]



dunno.. ppl are selfish.
dont u agree?

It took me longer to write that crap than to write normally.

Anyway, why do you like to state the obvious so much?

People are selfish.

And do you still think that Christians suffer more than non-Christians?

[princess2113]

just b/c were Christians doesnt mean we arent gonna have bad times in our life. we all have good and bad, including Christians. the differance is when ur Christian u have God to help u through the times of suffering and pain....He test us...we know it....but He tells us to turn to Him and He will alwayz help us.

We all have miricles in our life. We ARE miricles. they mite not be a loaf of bread creating food for thousands. or a Burning Bush. but they r here....u have to watch closely=)

oh, and all of u that keep PMing me abt how im mean n seem angry with ppl....im not trying to be mean but when u r sarcastically making fun God, who saved my life and created it, dont expect me to be an angel and side with you. and im not angry, its debate get over it...i dunt care what u think....or that u r all buddying up...God is my Judger....ONLY His Judgement matters to me=)

In SOME ways we suffer more b/c we try to do everything to please God.....but i think our suffering is a LOT less in some ways b/c we know no matter what in Heaven we r gonna be ok....and we know God is on our side in every one of our battles in life

[IIO__oII]

It took me longer to write that crap than to write normally.

Anyway, why do you like to state the obvious so much?

People are selfish. 

And do you still think that Christians suffer more than non-Christians?

yes i DO think we suffer more, cause we're going against the things that this world wants to do... wut they want to belive... so its harder for us to go along our daily lives and try to live a christian life...

[Spirited Away]

just b/c were Christians doesnt mean we arent gonna have bad times in our life. we all have good and bad, including Christians. the differance is when ur Christian u have God to help u through the times of suffering and pain....He test us...we know it....but He tells us to turn to Him and He will alwayz help us.

I hope you meant to tell your friend that (iio__oii) because I wasn't the one who said anything about anyone suffering more. She brought it up, and I thought that was: first, unfair; second, a selfish assumption; third, a close-minded statement.

According to you, He tests everyone, NOT just Christians. And yet, we automatically fail His tests because we're non-believers even though we've pass whatever it is life throws at us.

We all have miricles in our life. We ARE miricles. they mite not be a loaf of bread creating food for thousands. or a Burning Bush. but they r here....u have to watch closely=)

That would have been beautiful if you had spelled miracles right. Anyway, then science is a miracle, too, is it not? A miracle because it saves people, just like God does.

oh, and all of u that keep PMing me abt how im mean n seem angry with ppl....im not trying to be mean but when u r sarcastically making fun of the God who saved my life, dont expect me to be an angel and side with you. and im not angry, its debate get over it...i dunt care what u think....or that u r all buddying up...God is my Judger....ONLY His Judgement matters to me=)

I haven't PMed you anything bad, so I'm guessing you're not talking about me. We're not 'buddying' up anymore than you and your friends are 'buddying' up. Don't accuse people of doing something you're guilty of yourself.

In SOME ways we suffer more b/c we try to do everything to please God.....but i think our suffering is a LOT less in some ways b/c we know no matter what in Heaven we r gonna be ok....and we know God is on our side in every one of our battles in life

Whatever. (EDIT) You just contradicted yourselves.

You have your Heavenly Father who looks after you, who loves you. What do we have but ourselves to depend on? But then again, I'm not complaining because it makes me that much more independent.

yes i DO think we suffer more, cause we're going against the things that this world wants to do... wut they want to belive... so its harder for us to go along our daily lives and try to live a christian life...

Like I said, you have a Father, and you complain that you suffer more? Puhleeeze.

[princess2113]

I hope you meant to tell your friend that (iio__oii) because I wasn't the one who said anything about anyone suffering more. She brought it up, and I thought that was: first, unfair; second, a selfish assumption; third, a close-minded statement.

According to you, He tests everyone, NOT just Christians. And yet, we automatically fail His tests because we're non-believers even though we've pass whatever it is life throws at us.



That would have been beautiful if you had spelled miracles right. Anyway, then science is a miracle, too, is it not? A miracle because it saves people, just like God does.




I haven't PMed you anything bad, so I'm guessing you're not talking about me. We're not 'buddying' up anymore than you and your friends are 'buddying' up. Don't accuse people of doing something you're guilty of yourself.




Whatever. (EDIT) You just contradicted yourselves.

You have your Heavenly Father who looks after you, who loves you. What do we have but ourselves to depend on? But then again, I'm not complaining because it makes me that much more independent.



You have your Heavenly Father who looks after you, who loves you. What do we have but ourselves to depend on? But then again, I'm not complaining because it makes me that much more independent.

I hope you meant to tell your friend that (iio__oii) because I wasn't the one who said anything about anyone suffering more. She brought it up, and I thought that was: first, unfair; second, a selfish assumption; third, a close-minded statement.

huh? i wasnt really talking to u im just saying in general

According to you, He tests everyone, NOT just Christians. And yet, we automatically fail His tests because we're non-believers even though we've pass whatever it is life throws at us.

no, im sure u pass many things He throws ur way.

That would have been beautiful if you had spelled miracles right. Anyway, then science is a miracle, too, is it not? A miracle because it saves people, just like God does.

yes, science is also a miracle....i cant spell=)

I haven't PMed you anything bad, so I'm guessing you're not talking about me. We're not 'buddying' up anymore than you and your friends are 'buddying' up. Don't accuse people of doing something you're guilty of yourself.

naw, i wasnt talking abt u....u can at least debate NICELY...and they told me that its not accusation....she actually said i talked to friends in cb n they dunt like u ((as if i care what ppl idunno in the first place think of me? they also think im the biggest spammer....n i dunt think i have ever spammed)) moving on...

Whatever. (EDIT) You just contradicted yourselves.

no we have differant opinions....n even what i said is partly what she said

You have your Heavenly Father who looks after you, who loves you. What do we have but ourselves to depend on? But then again, I'm not complaining because it makes me that much more independent.

no, it makes u feel more independent....He still is helping u....maybe not as much b/c u dunt want Him 2((making u more independent)) but not in ways such as being able to save urself, etc.

You have your Heavenly Father who looks after you, who loves you. What do we have but ourselves to depend on? But then again, I'm not complaining because it makes me that much more independent.

hey! im not complaining abt it

y do u want to go to Heaven? we want to go to be with God. u dunt love Him, so y do u want to be with Him forever. its not a place to go so that u dunt have to go to hell....its a place to have everlasting peace b/c u r with God...the alternative is hell....but u say u dunt even love Him or want to love Him...so y do u want to live for eternity with Him?

[Spirited Away]

huh? i wasnt really talking to u im just saying in general

Oh, okay, I was just asnwering to you and other people in general.

yes, science is also a miracle....i cant spell=)

With science being a miracle, then why are so many of you against what science says? (Refer to past posts about science).

naw, i wasnt talking abt u....u can at least debate NICELY...and they told me that its not accusation....she actually said i talked to friends in cb n they dunt like u ((as if i care what ppl idunno in the first place think of me? they also think im the biggest spammer....n i dunt think i have ever spammed)) moving on...

Oh. I'm not nice. I'm actually quite vicious when you press the right buttons. I guess no one offended me yet.

no we have differant opinions....n even what i said is partly what she said

What I meant by contradictions was that you said you have a Father who looks over you and loves you, and yet you say that you suffer? Do you not consider yourselves blessed to have Him watch over you? If you're blessed, then why would you suffer more than others? <-- It's a contradiction to say that you're loved and blessed, then turn around and say that you suffer.

no, it makes u feel more independent....He still is helping u....maybe not as much b/c u dunt want Him 2((making u more independent)) but not in ways such as being able to save urself, etc.

It does make me feel more independent, but not in the way that you may think. It's hard to explain how I feel about religion. But to sum it up, religion is like a rushing river: it flows one way and objects get caught up in its currents and there's no way to go against those currents. Well, I like to think of atheists and agnotics as those steady rocks that stays in one place and is unmoved. (Of course, even rocks must give way sometime)...

y do u want to go to Heaven? we want to go to be with God. u dunt love Him, so y do u want to be with Him forever. its not a place to go so that u dunt have to go to hell....its a place to have everlasting peace b/c u r with God...the alternative is hell....but u say u dunt even love Him or want to love Him...so y do u want to live for eternity with Him?

I don't love God because I don't know Him and I haven't recognized anything He has done for me. But Heaven sounds like a nice place to be , after all, it's more preferable then burning in the pits of Hell. Would God turn me away because I don't believe in Him? (Don't asnwer, I already know the answer )

[waccoon]

just b/c were Christians doesnt mean we arent gonna have bad times in our life. we all have good and bad, including Christians. the differance is when ur Christian u have God to help u through the times of suffering and pain....He test us...we know it....but He tells us to turn to Him and He will alwayz help us.

We all have miricles in our life. We ARE miricles. they mite not be a loaf of bread creating food for thousands. or a Burning Bush. but they r here....u have to watch closely=)

oh, and all of u that keep PMing me abt how im mean n seem angry with ppl....im not trying to be mean but when u r sarcastically making fun God, who saved my life and created it, dont expect me to be an angel and side with you. and im not angry, its debate get over it...i dunt care what u think....or that u r all buddying up...God is my Judger....ONLY His Judgement matters to me=)

In SOME ways we suffer more b/c we try to do everything to please God.....but i think our suffering is a LOT less in some ways b/c we know no matter what in Heaven we r gonna be ok....and we know God is on our side in every one of our battles in life

THIS IS EXACTLY WHY YOU SHOULD NOT POST ON THE DEBATE FORUMS.

you give EXAMPLES of god but you have nothing to BACK IT UP with.
it's all faith, faith, faith. if they guys who wrote the bible said you had to wear a moldy hot dog as a nose ring, you'd do it. why? because you believe in them.

[onenonly101]

What of the people who believes in God and still suffer? There are many cases of this. I've seen devouts who serve God so faithfully even after tragedies and still suffer.

God never said our live as believers would be easier, in fact he promised persecution from those who don't believe because we do believe. There is always the question of why does God let bad things happen to good people. You know i don't completely know but I do know that in life we have many trials and tribulations and God will always be there to help and that we go through these things to make us a stronger person. I know that if i hadn't gone through alot of things that I wouldn't be the perosn i am today, shoot I wouldn't even be alive. But i do know that when ever i need him, he will be there, sometimes God is silent but he is still there

[Spirited Away]

God never said our live as believers would be easier, in fact he promised persecution from those who don't believe because we do believe. There is always the question of why does God let bad things happen to good people. You know i don't completely know but I do know that in life we have many trials and tribulations and God will always be there to help and that we go through these things to make us a stronger person. I know that if i hadn't gone through alot of things that I wouldn't be  the perosn i am today, shoot I wouldn't even be alive. But i do know that when ever i need him, he will be there, sometimes God is silent but he is still there

You know, I've already commented on much of what you've said in my earlier posts.

And you guys are confusing me. One Christian says that "yes we do suffer more than non-believers" and another says "God never said our lives as believers would be easier". But either way, the latter makes more sense, because I believe that everyone suffers just the same, it's how you rise out of that suffering that really counts.

I never said anything about one group of people suffering more so than others. But like you, I also believe that without going through hard times on my own, I wouldn't be the person I am today.

Because God is silent, I question His existence; because I can't feel Him, I question His powers; because He let bad things happen to good people regardless of their circumstances, I doubt Him.

However, I do think that it takes a lot of courage to believe in something you can't see, and that's where much of my respect lies with Christians and people of strong religious beliefs.

But there are things that we just can't except, no matter what. For you, you may think that evolution is not at all credible, and for me, I think that the concept of Heaven and Hell and how we get there is overrated.