Abortion Options

[*mipadi*]

I'm doubtful there are a lot of scientists, or people in general, saying that abortion is a good thing and that fetuses want to be aborted. Most pro-choicers don't think abortion is good; they just think it is better than the alternative (that being a ban on abortion).

[sadolakced acid]

it doesn't matter.

it can't be proved either way.

[*disco infiltrator*]

If it doesn't matter, why are you bringing it up?
You have a large tendency to bring up things that have no relevance to anything.

[sadolakced acid]

i didn't bring it up.

if i recall correctly, someone said that the feotus's rights were violated because it didn't want to be aborted.

[*disco infiltrator*]

No, no one said that.
Kryo asked if allowing a mother to abort her baby was forcing her beliefs on the fetus.

Nothing about the fetus not wanting to be aborted. You can force your beliefs on someone whether you want them to or not.

So yes.
You brought it up.

[sadolakced acid]

and that was my reply as to whether a mother not aborting a baby would be forcing her beliefs on it.

[The_AZN_Godfathe...]

This topic had the most replies on the Debate page...

I just so happend to pass by this on my friend's xanga.

Month One

Mommy, I am only 8 inches long, but I have all my organs. I love the sound of your voice. Every time I hear it, I wave my arms and legs. The sound of your heart beat is my favorite lullaby.


Month Two

Mommy, today I learned how to suck my thumb. If you could see me, you could definitely tell that I am a baby. I'm not big enough to survive outside my home though. It is so nice and warm in here.


Month Three

You know what Mommy, I'm a girl !! I hope that makes you happy. I always want you to be happy. I don't like it when you cry. You sound so sad. It makes me sad too, and I cry with you even though you can't hear me.


Month Four

Mommy, my hair is starting to grow. It is very short and fine, but I will have a lot of it. I spend a lot of my time exercising. I can turn my head and curl my fingers and toes, and stretch my arms and legs. I am becoming quite good at it too.


Month Five

You went to the doctor today. Mommy, he lied to you. He said that I'm not a baby. I am a baby Mommy, your baby. I think and feel. Mommy, what's abortion?


Month Six

I can hear that doctor again. I don't like him. He seems cold and heartless. Something is intruding my home. The doctor called it a needle. Mommy what is it? It burns! Please make him stop! I can't get away from it! Mommy!! HELP me!! No . . .


Month Seven

Mommy, I am okay. I am in Jesus's arms. he is holding me. He told me about abortion. Why didn't you want me Mommy?


Every Abortion Is Just . . .

One more heart that was stopped. Two more eyes that will never
see. Two more hands that will never touch. Two more legs that will never run. One more mouth that will never speak.

I shall not reveal my opinion on abortion just yet.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Hm, that would work if abortions were legal after the third month.

But, oh! They aren't!

[The_AZN_Godfathe...]

Hm, that would work if abortions were legal after the third month.

But, oh! They aren't!

Oh.

Well I just found that somewhere.

[*mipadi*]

Hm, that would work if abortions were legal after the third month.

But, oh! They aren't!

Abortions are legal in the United States after the third month, although only about 12% of abortions occur after the third month. [1]

There was a partial-birth abortion ban passed in 2003, but it has never been enforced, and several judges have declared it unconsitutional.[2]

[richc]

ok

my friends and i have been talking about this

one of my friends said "what would the use of the child who was "an accident" be? you might as well get an abortion or it would just be another abandoned child."

well.

think of it this way. you didnt even give to the baby a CHANCE. no chance at all. you just looked at it, and sed, "i dont think ur gonna do well in this world, so im gonna kill u"

thats like your teacher saying, "well i was going to give u guys this test. but i dont think u guys are gonna do well, so im not gonna even give it to u. im just gonna skip it and give u a zero in advanced."

they deserve a chance.

did you know that there are alot of people who want to adopt children BUT THERE ARENT ENOUGH? thats really sad.

also, how many of you have actually SEEN AN ABORTION? I have, on video of course, but i encourage all of u to watch an abortion to see
WHAT REALLY GOES ON.

oh, you know Roe vs Wade? Roe, is now against abortion; shes happy she had her daughter.


ok. When you are 70 years old, what would you rather think?

"I gave that child a chance in this world."

"I killed that child."

[NoSex]

think of it this way. you didnt even give to the baby a CHANCE. no chance at all. you just looked at it, and sed, "i dont think ur gonna do well in this world, so im gonna kill u"

Everyone loves to widdle this down to cliche potentional and fictional realities. However, the reality of the matter is, a fetus doesn't know the difference. You destroy a fetus and it doesn't have that chance for life, it never lived life, so it never really lost anything. If we want to talk so seriously about the moral questions behind potentials, we should stop masturbating because every time we blow a load we're terminating millions upon millions of potential human beings. When a woman has her period, should we hold her to involuntary manslaughter?!

[*kryogenix*]

Everyone loves to widdle this down to cliche potentional and fictional realities. However, the reality of the matter is, a fetus doesn't know the difference. You destroy a fetus and it doesn't have that chance for life, it never lived life, so it never really lost anything. If we want to talk so seriously about the moral questions behind potentials, we should stop masturbating because every time we blow a load we're terminating millions upon millions of potential human beings. When a woman has her period, should we hold her to involuntary manslaughter?!

No. Think about how babies come about. Sexual intercourse produces babies. The union of the sperm and the egg is a special process. That is why life begins at conception.

[richc]

sperm is not life

life starts when the sperm meets the egg

[Mulder]

...no one ever said that sperm was life. some people believe that life exists right after conception

[NoSex]

No. Think about how babies come about. Sexual intercourse produces babies. The union of the sperm and the egg is a special process. That is why life begins at conception.

I was trying to draw from the absurdity of saying that we shouldn't abort babies because they should be given a chance to live or that they have the potential to be born. I wasn't trying to say that sperm is life, but it most definately has the potential to become life.

Also, why do we value life? What exactly makes life special?

And, what about a fetus reflects these valued realities, and special qualities?

Quite simply, why shouldn't we destroy a fetus? What exactly is so morally reprehensible about a mother terminating her fetus?

[SideStraddleHop]

Also, why do we value life? What exactly makes life special?
And, what about a fetus reflects these valued realities, and special qualities?
Quite simply, why shouldn't we destroy a fetus? What exactly is so morally reprehensible about a mother terminating her fetus?

Ironically, your dogmatic rejection of the gospel of Jesus Christ precludes you from accepting the correct answers to those questions. In addition, your references to utilitarianism are highly distasteful.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Hm, I don't know if I was mistaken, but I do believe that this thread is about abortion and not about religion.

Either way, there's a thing called separation between church and state, and since there will never be an established religion in this country, we should not hold our laws to a certain religious belief's values.

did you know that there are alot of people who want to adopt children BUT THERE ARENT ENOUGH? thats really sad.

Um, that's blatantly wrong. There's an overabundance of kids waiting to be adopted and not enough parents to take them in. Abortion would probably help that number go down so less children would end up living their lives without parents or jumping from foster home to foster home being beaten because they can't get any good parents.

[*mipadi*]

Ironically, your dogmatic rejection of the gospel of Jesus Christ precludes you from accepting the correct answers to those questions. In addition, your references to utilitarianism are highly distasteful.

You make such claims, yet you don't specify the reasons, or provide support for your argument. I'm not presumptuous enough to say you are wrong, but thus far, your argument lacks weight. Morals and ethics are a major part of any study of philosophy, and when broken down, it can be very hard to define right and wrong without recursively referring to their opposites. In fact, there's a topic about this that never even came anywhere close to resolving this issue.

[NoSex]

Ironically, your dogmatic rejection of the gospel of Jesus Christ precludes you from accepting the correct answers to those questions. In addition, your references to utilitarianism are highly distasteful.

1. My "rejection" of gospel has never been dogmatic in nature. What a bold claim. Mind supporing it?
2. What exactly would be the correct answers, and why do you believe that they are correct? Why should we believe that they are correct?
3. I have no idea where you got any hint of Utilitarianism from my post. I was simply asking questions so that I could get a more accurate picture of the moral grounds against abortion consist of.
4. I am not, in any way, a Utilitarianist.

I'm listening to pretty music. (Regina Spektor // Chemo Limo)
Check it out.

[*disco infiltrator*]

Regina Spektor is very pretty.

[sadolakced acid]

nerve cells do not become mylenated until the end of the last trimester, month 7-8.

unmylenated nerves are generally incapable of proper fuction, like being able to transmit pain or feeling.

when the feotus is being developed, it's like constructing a building. the tenant doesn't move in untill it's nearly finished.

but the tenant moves in gradually.

so what's a person? i could pull a frankenstein, sew together a bunch of organs and create a 'self sustaining' system that would be arguablly more alive than some people.

the feotus is certainly alive. but so is bacteria. when does a feotus become a person? it certainly isn't a person in the blastocyst stage. even after it develops a rudimentary heart, there isn't a functioning nervous system.

movements in the uterus, like kicks and sucking the thumb, are considered to be reflexive actions by the brain stem to develop the muscles.

and, for anyone wishing to use religion; please give me, chapter and verse, where the bible says that a just fertilized egg is a human and has a soul.

[*mipadi*]

I don't know if myelination should be used as a benchmark for "life". Some myelinization doesn't occur until the late teenage years, yet I, at least, wouldn't say it's okay to kill a twelve-year-old, simply because not all of his nerve cells are myelinated.

[sadolakced acid]

but when not enough nerve cells are mylenated to facilitate correct nerve function?

[*mipadi*]

A lot of myelination doesn't even occur until after birth.