ABORTION VERSION TWO Options

[sadolakced acid]

yea, someone head to the other one and close it.

i'm going to lay down a few ground rules here.

1- i don't care what your stance is, and no one else does either

2- use logic and facts to try to convince us to believe something. it's called a debate not a disorganized rumble.

3- be civil. a lot of you seem to have problems with this.

4- no links, unless neccisary. no quoting outside sources over a paragraph. USE YOUR OWN WORDS. if i don't care what you think about it, why would i care what someone else thinks? and really. stop using other people's arguements.

alright. and you know, keeping your posts short isn't a bad thing either.

so, the set up:

should abortion be made illegal in the united states

[forza]

Like I said in the other thread: this is a dead horse that needs respite -- badly.

But to answer the question posed: no, abortion should not be outlawed, for two reasons:

1) Realism: abortions are necessary at times. I don't like the idea of terminating a potential human being, but I don't like the idea of a baby having a baby even worse. How successful is a newborn with a 15 year old mother from the slums expected to be? If you can justify forcibly ruining several lives for the sake of your beliefs (of which almost 100% derive from your religion), I've lost faith in this society's capacity to use common sense.

2) Litigation's sake: we have to uphold the validity of Supreme Court decisions at all costs. Sure, we review/question them all the time, but rarely do we overturn them. To do this would be to undermine the very foundation upon which our justice system resides. We can't compromise the power of the Supreme Court without titanium proof of its necessity (which we don't have).

[AngelinaTaylor]

Uhh it's not closed...

[Simba]

At first, I thought abortion should be outlawed.

Though, now that I think about it, it makes more sense that it should be allowed.

Like, forza up there, I don't like the idea of ending a baby's life, but it may be better than letting it live a horrible life. Not to mention it could ruin the mother's life, when in school and the such.

And I guess it would help prevent the population from going up so fast.
People keep saying, "Quality of quantity."

[*ECD & C0*]

why do we need a new topic on this? the old one is fine in my opinion

Killing a baby is heartless. If you can't handle a baby, you should give it up for adoption, or not have sex! Otherwise, use protection, and be careful.
Getting raped is scary, yeah, but why should the baby suffer, too? Every life is important.

^--- that pretty much sums it up

[AngelinaTaylor]

^ Really, have you been raped, or do you know anyone who has been? Because I don't think you know how traumatic it is.

[*disco infiltrator*]

What's wrong with sticking with the other thread?

[sadolakced acid]

well, god v 1 was closed at 50, and for the past few pages of abortion v 1, there hasn't been much anything going on.

[smoke]

If you can justify forcibly ruining several lives for the sake of your beliefs (of which almost 100% derive from your religion), I've lost faith in this society's capacity to use common sense.

Ruining several lives? My sister got pregnant at 16 and was encouraged greatly by the hospital to have an abortion, but she chose not to. My nephew is now almost 4 and he is one of the biggest joys in all of our lives. I don't see how that ruins anything.

Also your statement about beliefs deriving from your religion is very ignorant. My beliefs do not come from my religion. I have created by opinion based on several factual articles and personal encounters having to do with abortion.

And by the way, I lost faith in this society's capacity to use common sense years ago.

^ Really, have you been raped, or do you know anyone who has been? Because I don't think you know how traumatic it is.

I know you weren't speaking to me, but I must reply, lol.

My girlfriend was raped at 14 years old before we dated. She said that if she had gotten pregnant, she would've kept the child because she believes it's not right for her or anyone to take the child's life even if she couldn't provide the child with everything it needs. It's always better to have hope that the child may overcome the outcome then to never give it a chance and always wonder what if.

If she had a child, I would've still dated her because it shows what a strong individual she is and she didn't take the easy way out.


This topic is getting old fast. There's nothing factual left. It's all just personal opinions on the subject. Same old stuff over and over again.

[forza]

Ruining several lives? My sister got pregnant at 16 and was encouraged greatly by the hospital to have an abortion, but she chose not to. My nephew is now almost 4 and he is one of the biggest joys in all of our lives. I don't see how that ruins anything.

And by the way, I lost faith in this society's capacity to use common sense years ago.
I know you weren't speaking to me, but I must reply, lol.

No worries, I appreciate your reply. But, my friend, in what percentage of the success spectrum do you think your sister's instance rests?

If I were to throw out a ballpark figure I'd say the bottom 5% -- if that.

[smoke]

^ It may actually surprise you. Hmm, maybe I can get some numbers and post them up. I'll go look :) I'm guessing this would be very difficult to record.

[forza]

^ Yeah, I can't imagine the people at the abortion clinics/hospitals do very extensive follow-ups...

[Melissawilson5]

Like i said in the other one I am against abortion !! It's wrong...I don't know how people can muder unborn children like it's sick minded...than there is always the people that are like Omg what if you got raped yer fair enough you would want to remove the baby cause like you would not want to give birth to a baby knowing you did not want it and did not plan for it to happen but appart from that....I think abortion is wrong cause like it's a mistake that the person made for not using protection and so they murder a child cause they did not wear protection like that is so stupid it should be illegal.

[forza]

Oh, so my snide ass remark in the other thread wasn't barrier enough. She comes into the other thread to say the same thing.

[AngelinaTaylor]

My girlfriend was raped at 14 years old before we dated. She said that if she had gotten pregnant, she would've kept the child because she believes it's not right for her or anyone to take the child's life even if she couldn't provide the child with everything it needs. It's always better to have hope that the child may overcome the outcome then to never give it a chance and always wonder what if.

If she had a child, I would've still dated her because it shows what a strong individual she is and she didn't take the easy way out.

Having a child at 14? That's a very bad idea in my opinion - she's still a child herself.

I'm not saying that abortion should be THE only way, but I'm saying that having abortion if the person has been raped is not wrong. Nor is it to have it if the person isn't ready for kids and is still in school. If someone got pregnat and didn't want a kid, but has graduated from school, then I think it would be better to give it up for adoption.

[*ECD & C0*]

Really, have you been raped, or do you know anyone who has been? Because I don't think you know how traumatic it is.

did i say it wasn't? yes its traumatic, but so is killing your child --- most women regret ever having an abortion and some even commit suicide. You will never forget that you did that if you have an abortion it doesn't just go away.

[sadolakced acid]

alright. i'll bite.

let's see an article, perhaps, just one is fine, that says "woman commits suicide because of abortion"

yea. something like that.

[smoke]

^ http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/dec/05120107.html
I couldn't find an article on a specific case. I'd imagine the news media wouldn't like to claim that a suicide was directly linked to suicide, but it's obviously evident that it has an effect.

Having a child at 14? That's a very bad idea in my opinion - she's still a child herself.

I'm not saying that abortion should be THE only way, but I'm saying that having abortion if the person has been raped is not wrong. Nor is it to have it if the person isn't ready for kids and is still in school. If someone got pregnat and didn't want a kid, but has graduated from school, then I think it would be better to give it up for adoption.

Killing an unborn child is a very bad idea, in my opinion.

I can definitely see where you're coming from, but like I said before, it's always better to have hope that the child may overcome the outcome then to just end any chance it has. Unfortunately, the majority of teens who have an abortion have it not because they're still in school but because they simply don't want the inconvenience of raising the child which is very selfish. If she took the risk of having sex, she should be responsible enough to raise the child. In a perfect world, your idea would hold true but we live in a far from perfect world. :\

[AngelinaTaylor]

Killing an unborn child is a very bad idea, in my opinion.

I can definitely see where you're coming from, but like I said before, it's always better to have hope that the child may overcome the outcome then to just end any chance it has. Unfortunately, the majority of teens who have an abortion have it not because they're still in school but because they simply don't want the inconvenience of raising the child which is very selfish. If she took the risk of having sex, she should be responsible enough to raise the child. In a perfect world, your idea would hold true but we live in a far from perfect world. :\

So you'd rather keep the child, even if you couldn't afford it? Even if you knew it would have a miserable life? A woman has the right to have power over her own body, don't you think? And if you do have a child, your education will be pretty much over. Because you'd have to quit school to take care of the baby. There are people who care about education. And let's face it, many people have sex before they're ready for a child. It's not a perfect world, as you said..

[sadolakced acid]

obvious to whom?

it must be scientifically proven.

people on antidepressants are more likely to commit suicide. does this mean antidepressants don't work?

unless a scientific study is done, you cannot draw these assumptions.

[Melissawilson5]

Oh, so my snide ass remark in the other thread wasn't barrier enough. She comes into the other thread to say the same thing.

Dude are you trying to annoy me ??

[sadolakced acid]

that much is obvious.

please, read the first post. if you intend to convince us to change our minds ( i'm pro- woman's rights, by the way), then by all means post. but if you simply wish to share a piece of your mind, well, we have enough of that.

[NoSex]

Killing an unborn child is a very bad idea, in my opinion.

Why, exactly, is it such a bad idea? What is it that gives an unborn child more value than the freedom a woman has over her body? What gives the government, or anyone for that matter, the right to force a woman to carry a child to term? Of what immediate value is the unborn child and why is it morally objectionable to abort it?

[smoke]

obvious to whom?

it must be scientifically proven.

people on antidepressants are more likely to commit suicide. does this mean antidepressants don't work?

unless a scientific study is done, you cannot draw these assumptions.

Did you even read the article? Please define what you think a scientific study is. That was a scientific study, not assumptions.

If people on antidepressants are more likely to commit suicide, there's obviously something wrong with the medication, wouldn't you say? And I don't understand where you're going with that statement anyway. It has nothing to do with anything I or that article have stated. Please explain.

So you'd rather keep the child, even if you couldn't afford it? Even if you knew it would have a miserable life? A woman has the right to have power over her own body, don't you think? And if you do have a child, your education will be pretty much over. Because you'd have to quit school to take care of the baby. There are people who care about education. And let's face it, many people have sex before they're ready for a child. It's not a perfect world, as you said..

I can't see into the future. How can I, or anyone know the child would have a miserable life? It's impossible. There are many many many people who have had single teenage mothers and have risen above and lead wonderful lives. Even a lot of athletes and celebrities. It gave them a reason to want to overcome and per sue their dreams. It's a natural human instinct to want to thrive and get better and better.

Yes, I do think woman has the right to have power over her own body. She has a choice of what she does with her body. She chose to use her body and have sex before she was able to support a child. Is that the child's fault? I don't think the mother has the right to deny a child of living because of her mistake. After all, the fetus is not her body. It's inside her, growing, but it's not her. And, actually, at my school this year 5 girls were pregnant (I know, everybody jokes that our school is a breeding ground) and they only left school for a few months to have the baby and recover. All 5 of them are returning to school next year. They just had to make up work in summer school and summer school's a push over. Their family looks after the baby when they are away. I don't see a problem with that. After all, they are a family. My brothers and sisters had to take care of me when I was young and my parents were at work. I don't get your idea that they have to quit school.

[sadolakced acid]

i read the article. it didn't name the studies, let alone cite them, so i can't even look into the 'scientific research' to see if it's legit.

the site that wrote the article, moreover, has close associations with pro-life organizations, and thus cannot be taken as an unbiased source.

as for the antidepressants; the answer is simple. people on antidepressants are people who are already at higher risk for suicide. why else would they be taking antidepressants?