The Bible?, historical acocunt or a political agenda Options

[sadolakced acid]

^ read the whole debate.

[*suddenly she*]

anyways:

tell me, in all honesty, if hitler truely believed in jesus christ as his lord and savior, and he truely repented for what he did, would he go to heaven or hell?

heaven.
i need to do more research on hitler.

[sammi rules you]

and i would go to hell, since i'm atheist?

well that's not very loving of God. i'm a perfectly good and moral person.

[*suddenly she*]

and i would go to hell, since i'm atheist?

well that's not very loving of God. i'm a perfectly good and moral person.

what are your standards for being a good and moral person?
what are God's standards for being a good and moral person?

[pink_p0lo]

^^ iagree with the above post...

and i would go to hell, since i'm atheist?

well that's not very loving of God. i'm a perfectly good and moral person.

um,ithought atheists didnt believe in god. you just said you were an atheist; thereforeyou dont believe there is a God. so how can you say,"well that's not very loving of God" when according to you, there is no God?

a big part of religion is faith. and for christians, part of the faith is believing that the bible is true, just as we believe in God even though we cant see him.

although, i have heard that they think they found noah's ark and that at the bottom of the red sea, where moses led the slaves to freedom, they have found bones and parts of chariots fromwhen the soldies chasing them were swept away.

[Spirited Away]

what are your standards for being a good and moral person?
what are God's standards for being a good and moral person?

What are God's standards of good and morality?

um,ithought atheists didnt believe in god.  you just said you were an atheist; thereforeyou dont believe there is a God. so how can you say,"well that's not very loving of God" when according to you, there is no God?

... you need to read into context. Actually, you just need to read the threads like I asked so many times before.

Anyway, she is saying that such a God, one who would turn away from an innocent simply because the person is not Christian, is not very loving.

a big part of religion is faith. and for christians, part of the faith is believing that the bible is true, just as we believe in God even though we cant see him.
although, i have heard that they think they found noah's ark and that at the bottom of the red sea, where moses led the slaves to freedom, they have found bones and parts of chariots fromwhen the soldies chasing them were swept away.

... how big was Noah's Ark?

[pink_p0lo]

big..but why would it matter anyway??

btw,yeah, i have been reading the threads...

and i would say why i thinkgod is loving but other people have already mentioned it in john 3:16,but then you would just tell me to read the thread..which i have...

[Spirited Away]

big..but why would it matter anyway??

btw,yeah, i have been reading the threads...

and i would say why i thinkgod is loving but other people have already mentioned it in john 3:16,but then you would just tell me to read the thread..which i have...

Actually if you have, you wouldn't be repeating things others have said before you because they have already been discussed. This is relevant to other posts you've made in debate as well.

And I did ask you to read Sammi's (touch my monkey) response in context, too.

How big is big, by the way?

[pink_p0lo]

big enough to hold two of every kind of animal.

i read the thread, and i didnt really see anything that was relevant to my post..

you askedme to read touch my monkey's post in context. but that was after my first post. and i said, and you quoted it, that other people had already discussed it in john 3:16

[*kryogenix*]

so, exactly what was taken out of the bible that you guys are complaining about?

[XoJennaoX]

although, i have heard that they think they found noah's ark and that at the bottom of the red sea, where moses led the slaves to freedom, they have found bones and parts of chariots from when the soldies chasing them were swept away.

I have also heard they found the first born son of King Rameses (according to the bible he was killed by God during the last of the ten plagues noted in Exodus). The autopsy report showed he was killed by a blow to the head, obviously from a weapon that was used by man. This is only what I've "heard". Even-so i doubt finding bones in the red sea proves anything in your case, since Egyptain hieroglyphics also claim the fact that there was indeed a battle during that period in time, but a little less "holy" than the bible claims it was.

[Spirited Away]

big enough to hold two of every kind of animal.

i read the thread, and i didnt really see anything that was relevant to my post..

you askedme to read touch my monkey's post in context. but that was after my first post. and i said, and you quoted it, that other people had already discussed it in john 3:16

Righttt. And how big is that? You said people found something tangible, right? Well, there should be an estimate of size or some kind of measurement, don't you think? So, I want to know how the finding compare with something that could hold "two of every animal".

This is what you said:

um,ithought atheists didnt believe in god. you just said you were an atheist; thereforeyou dont believe there is a God. so how can you say,"well that's not very loving of God" when according to you, there is no God?

And I asked you to read within the context of what she was saying because you would've understood what she meant, which is "that such a God, one who would turn away from an innocent simply because the person is not Christian, is not very loving." She is not saying whether or not there's a God, she's stating the hypothetical. Simple enough, I think.

[sadolakced acid]

although, i have heard that they think they found noah's ark and that at the bottom of the red sea, where moses led the slaves to freedom, they have found bones and parts of chariots fromwhen the soldies chasing them were swept away.

that's funny. because the original hebrew text says something that more accuratly translates as "the reed sea". and that there was such a sea, and it was really more of a marsh, and the tide would fill and drain it. and that historians are pretty sure this is what the original text said.


hmm. i wonder why they found bodies and chariots in the red sea. i mean, it's not like boats carrying chariots could have sunk there...

and you ask me to prove where the bible's been changed.... here a simple translation error that makes a 'miracle' into something bigger, what else is there? a 'translation error' that makes blacks the inferiors and destined slaves of the whites?

[lbjshaq2345]

dude




not even gonna go thare

[Spirited Away]

dude
not even gonna go thare

Dude...


Don't post if you're not "gonna go thare".

[fameONE]

dude
not even gonna go thare

I've ripped on you before, I don't see a reason to stop.

You're not intelligent enough to post in this subforum.

Oh, I went "thare."

so, exactly what was taken out of the bible that you guys are complaining about?

Good question. This thread is more or less an interpretation of intent. I don't think people truly understand Christianity and the one's that do, haven't been doing a good job of educating. And when valid points are brought up to sway the argument in favor of Christianity, it becomes preachy. So it becomes preachy and the atheists raise some hell because of all this heaven talk and the process keeps repeating itself.

[Spirited Away]

And when valid points are brought up to sway the argument in favor of Christianity, it becomes preachy. So it becomes preachy and the atheists raise some hell because of all this heaven talk and the process keeps repeating itself.

... I don't think we can ever agree on what would be considered a 'valid point'. The 'we' stand in for Atheists and non-Atheists as well.

[fameONE]

Ahh, good morning, Fae? How are you today?

... I don't think we can ever agree on what would be considered a 'valid point'. The 'we' stand in for Atheists and non-Atheists as well.

Sadly, you're right. Hopefully we can agree that being a good person is universal for everyone.

[Spirited Away]

Ahh, good morning, Fae? How are you today?

Good morning! I'll be working so I don't know how my day's going to be yet.

Sadly, you're right. Hopefully we can agree that being a good person is universal for everyone.

Unfortunately, we can't even agree on that. From what Ruth implied, there is a distinction between God's standard of 'good' and our standard of 'good'. So, how do we overcome that? What is God's standard of 'good'?

[sammi rules you]

big enough to hold two of every kind of animal.

OH REALLY?

well, if you had actually read the bible as you must claim to since you're such an awesome christian, you would know that noah was asked to take seven of every animal.

and i'm not making this up. in our evolution/creation debate in bio, we had several bibles. it says seven.

isn't part of god's morals to read the bible? looks like you're not so good and moral, either. so i really don't think you're in any place to tell me whether i'm good and moral.

[_suzie_]

''isn't part of god's morals to read the bible?''


um...no. how can that even BE a moral? God has never said anything about reading a bible...just to follow his laws and be loyal, love one another, etcetera.


''people have mutilated the meaning to fit their purpose, as others have stated in the thread. even in one church, a verse can be interpreted many different ways.''

nicely put,suddenly she. sikdragon put it nicely too, about the agenda's lying not within the bible but in the hands of politically driven men.
''The church is just a building'' - it is indeed. an institution.



someone asked for a passage where people were still punished ater repenting, theres thousands, but anyways...this is a fairly well known one, its wher King David had an affair with Bathsheeba, and murdered her husband when she became pregnant. (her husband was a Hittite fighting in the holy war, and all warriors in holy wars werent allowed to do anything 'unclean' like have sex during the war. so, david couldnt persuade him to stay home with his wife ie to frame him for the pregnancy, all that jazz)

heres the bible reference of the Jerusalem Bible, 2SAMUEL, 11. its titled , 'The second ammonite campaign. David's sin.'

anyways, so david murdered him.

Nathan the prophet comes along n shows david what he's done wrong etc, thru a parable.


nathan says ''Thus Yahweh speaks, 'i will stir up evil for you out of your own house..' ''
davids overwhelmed and falls to his knees in repentance, sayin
''i have sinned against yahweh''

thennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nathan says , ''Yahweh, for his part, forgives you for his sin; you are not to die. Yet by doing this, the child that is born to you is to die''
David's son raped one of his daughters, whose brother then murdered the rapist..sorry kinda confusing, but displays the crisis within davids family

thats one example. sorry if its a bit brief, but i had an exam on the same thing the other day, and my head is melted from it.

if u want more ill type it up

[fameONE]

Unfortunately, we can't even agree on that. From what Ruth implied, there is a distinction between God's standard of 'good' and our standard of 'good'. So, how do we overcome that? What is God's standard of 'good'?

Hmm, maybe I should walk around carrying an M60 demanding that people get along peacefully? Or maye I should throw away the idea of a governed set of rules and guidelines and be 'a good person' by example so people of any belief can say, "That kid Brandon is a good guy."

I'm feelin' the idea of the M60 but I'll settle for option #2.

[sadolakced acid]

nicely put,suddenly she.  sikdragon put it nicely too, about the agenda's lying not within the bible but in the hands of politically driven men.

yes, there is an agenda in the bible put in by politically driven men. it's tainted the bible so that it's word cannot be taken as the word of deciphels, or prophets, or whatever it's supposed to be.

[sikdragon]

I did read it and i had some very valid points.

[*suddenly she*]

ah... you guys. when we compare bibles, let's say which versions if you can remember, because some of this material's new to me and i might feel inclined to do some research.

*feels dorky*

i'll post more later, it's kinda late for me.