Homosexual, //what if...? Options

[DaTru KataLYST]

Kryo, if you twist his words like that, it would also mean you're suggesting that being born straight is a defect. Because you were "born" being straight, right? Hey, you were born with a perfectly normal brain. You were born with it! That's a defect. Born with a perfectly working foot? Defect. Arm? Defect. Tongue? Defect.

[rushx]

Looks like a pretty heated debate.. I can see the logic of both sides of the argument.

1) Deep down, I personally don't like it. Doesn't mean I can't accept it.

2) Respect? Of course.

3) Legalization of gay marriage? From a humanistic point of view, yes I agree it should be.

I guess the thing I don't like is that some like to use it as an excuse for special treatment, and I'm not saying the majority of gay people do.

Coming from a traditional Catholic family, I couldn't see myself turning/becoming/born gay. I guess it's because the "natural" way is to be heterosexual. Being gay doesn't help you survive. From a scientific point of view of natural selection, you basically live in order to pass on your own genes to the next generation. Those with the best adaptations will survive and reproduce. Therefore homosexually isn't logical from a scientific sense.

I guess humans are different with the power of cognition and "feelings." I guess those were the circumstances and conditions that I was born into. But I've learned through being a Catholic that you shouldn't hold things against people. In the end, a human being is a human being. Religion is suppose to fit the people with the times and conditions. And, whether most of us like it or not, times are changing. Maybe religion should too. That's why religion was created wasn't it? To fit the needs of the people it governs. It doesn't mean that the traditional values need to be shifted. It doesn't need to say that the majority of people during biblical times were homosexual. In fact.. I don't think it ever mentions homosexually specifically in the Bible.. But I couldn't be wrong, so if someone finds out, then let me know.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say in the end is that it's not my niche. There are things far worse about people that we accept (i.e. killing, abuse, etc). This is a small thing about people we can learn to accept. Homosexuality doesn't entail killing or anything else. It's just.. Their position they stand in. I don't like homosexuality as a way of living, but it doesn't have to mean I need that as an excuse to not like how they live their life and the person in general. As long as they respect those around them for their positions and not hold it against them, I'm okay. Life is good.

[*kryogenix*]

[quote=pandamonium,Nov 6 2004, 1:23 PM]




Where in the first statement do you see me saying being homosexual is a defect? i only said its normal i dont kno where you are coming up with these words... [/QUOTE]
You say you're born with it. It's detrimental. Hence it's a defect. You acknowledge this. Hence you pretty much say it's a defect. Common sense dude. [/QUOTE]
I didnt mean ,in anyway or anyhow, that being born homosexual is a defect. all i meant to say was being homosexual is normal just like being straight... you are born straight arent you? then what about the people born gay they have no choice.. they were born like that... the only reason why people think its bad cause of their religion .. if their religion states that its bad to be homosexual thats when its considered bad. like if you were a christian then probably most christians would think its bad.

And i really dont know how you got being born a homosexual is a defect out of my post.. [/quote]
Have you no common sense? Read my post again. Read it 10 times even. Try to make sense out of it.

Here, I'll save you the trouble of scrolling up.

[quote=kryogenix] You say you're born with it. It's detrimental. Hence it's a defect. You acknowledge this. Hence you pretty much say it's a defect. Common sense dude.[/quote]

read it again. slowly. several times. until you understand what i'm trying to say.


[quote=atpx]  Kryo, if you twist his words like that, it would also mean you're suggesting that being born straight is a defect. Because you were "born" being straight, right? Hey, you were born with a perfectly normal brain. You were born with it! That's a defect. Born with a perfectly working foot? Defect. Arm? Defect. Tongue? Defect.[/quote]

Look at my definition of defect again. DETRIMENTAL. How is a perfectly working arm/foot/brain/tongue detrimental? How is being straight detrimental.?

Jeez, you guys really should read my posts, you don't seem to understand them too well...

Anyway.

Rushx: I feel pretty much the same way. If they don't bother me, why should I hate them? But, many of these guys are hypocrites. They like expressing their gay pride. If I started a hetero pride parade, I would be called a bigot. They tell me to be open minded, but many people i've argued with call the bible "worthless" and "a bundle of lies."

[melface]

who are we to say what is "normal"... being heterosexual is "normal" now?

[*kryogenix*]

who are we to say what is "normal"... being heterosexual is "normal" now?

in the sense that it's not detrimental to the survivability of the human race, yes, it is normal.

[melface]

What about bisexuals?

[pandamonium]

What about bisexuals?

ahaha oooo she gotcha there buddy .. lol maybe using the word detrimental one more time will help. lol

[rushx]

ahaha oooo she gotcha there buddy .. lol maybe using the word detrimental one more time will help. lol

Okay.. What about bisexuals? They're not one or the other. They are the grey area. It's not heaven but it's not hell. It's purgatory. They're not completely aiding the human race so to speak but they're not hindering it either. They are officially the grey area. From an evolutionary point of view, undecidedly useless, so to speak.

Okay okay.. I think what Kryo is trying to point out is just because they're gay doesn't mean they need act high and mighty (does not apply to all homosexuals). They are the minority. They should be protected and given the same rights. Not projected above everyone else. For example, just because I'm smart doesn't mean that I need special treatment. In the end, I think he just wants them to be humble.

[*kryogenix*]

What about bisexuals?

That's a defect as well. It's an abnormality in sex drive. They're flip flopping between hetero and homosexual.

ahaha oooo she gotcha there buddy .. lol maybe using the word detrimental one more time will help. lol

HAHAHAH, no. Your point is? How does this help the debate? Just because you can't argue your side doesn't mean you can be a jerk.

Okay okay.. I think what Kryo is trying to point out is just because they're gay doesn't mean they need act high and mighty (does not apply to all homosexuals). They are the minority. They should be protected and given the same rights. Not projected above everyone else. For example, just because I'm smart doesn't mean that I need special treatment. In the end, I think he just wants them to be humble.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. They have some special double standard because they are the minority. Why should they be allowed to hold up traffic by marching in parades, when if I had a hetero pride parade, people would think I was bigoted?

[pandamonium]

HAHAHAH, no. Your point is? How does this help the debate? Just because you can't argue your side doesn't mean you can be a jerk.



Yes, that's exactly what I mean. They have some special double standard because they are the minority. Why should they be allowed to hold up traffic by marching in parades, when if I had a hetero pride parade, people would think I was bigoted?

lol.

2nd quote
i kno what your talking about..being straight and not having a hetero parade but i guess they just want to be heard... they want to be like everyone else and have the same rights. thats all. they dont mean to do anything wrong they are just fighting for what they believe in... just like what your doing right now.. saying what you believe in.. thats why we are in the debate forum.

[DaTru KataLYST]

Maybe when they're granted the rights a hetero person is granted, they'll stop parading for their right for human rights, eh?

[sadolakced acid]

well, kryo, there are people who get killed for being gay.

are there people who get killed for being straight?

there's a reason for the double standard.

[*kryogenix*]

well, kryo, there are people who get killed for being gay.

are there people who get killed for being straight?

there's a reason for the double standard.

they're inconveniencing the wrong people then. I don't kill gay people. But I suffer if they hold up traffic in New York. By law, they have equal rights, it's not the government's fault that people want to kill them.

  Maybe when they're granted the rights a hetero person is granted, they'll stop parading for their right for human rights, eh?

Which rights do you speak of?

[sadolakced acid]

if they apply for a parade licence, they cannot be denied it because they are gay.

if you were to deny them the parade licence, you must deny all parade licences.

which means no thanksgiving day parade. no fourth of july parade, no parades, not for anything.

[*kryogenix*]

if they apply for a parade licence, they cannot be denied it because they are gay.

if you were to deny them the parade licence, you must deny all parade licences.

which means no thanksgiving day parade. no fourth of july parade, no parades, not for anything.

when were they denied a licensce just because they were gay? i recall them marching without a licensce and getting arrested, but I don't remember them getting denied a licensce just because they were gay.

[DaTru KataLYST]

Human rights, kryo.

That all men are created equal.

[sadolakced acid]

exactly. they were arrested because they didn't have a licence. so would have anyone.

you complain, but they were arrested for it. what's to complain about?

[rushx]

Okay.. Everyone agrees that they should get equal rights even Kryo. I agree to that too. What the issue is about is marriage, not love. They have all the right in the world to love one another. That's a natural, human right and so that isn't the problem is it? The problem is the government recognizing the union of a homosexual marriage for the purpose of providing the benefits of being married.

So basically, there can be no law saying that they can't love one another or even be together.

I don't understand what demonstrations and parades have to do with this debate? I guess it just goes to say that if you go through the right channels, then there is no reason to be angry at them. I hold up a bank and rob it. So? I get arrested and they complain and suffer. That's just the way things are. You do something wrong, you get punished. I guess what everyone else is trying to say is that they are just fighting for what they believe in, which is perfectly. And I guess the point Kryo is trying to make that their cause shouldn't be at the expense of other people. Do it properly and no one has to complain about anything.

Religion has no place in a discussion like this that applies to a wide variety of people. Religion if only effective on an individual basis for the benefit of the person. Period. (General statement.)

[eli5e]

i truly believe that it is wrong... mostly because of my religious beliefs..

[sammi rules you]

they're inconveniencing the wrong people then. I don't kill gay people. But I suffer if they hold up traffic in New York. By law, they have equal rights, it's not the government's fault that people want to kill them.

they're just trying to get people to think about giving them the same treatment they would a straight person. they don't want to be discriminated against.

[sadolakced acid]

and why not civil unions?


civil unions, where they get all they benifits a married couple would get?
marriage would still be between a man and a woman

[sammi rules you]

and why not civil unions? 


civil unions, where they get all they benifits a married couple would get? 
marriage would still be between a man and a woman

they want to be able to be married. that's a right. if they're not allowed to get married, it is NOT the same rights as married couples. a benefit they would recieve is knowing that they can legally show their love for eachother with a marraige.

[melface]

  Maybe when they're granted the rights a hetero person is granted, they'll stop parading for their right for human rights, eh?


Which rights do you speak of?

equal rights other people who are straight have, maybe? you say which rights... which other rights do they not have?


I would join in a gay parade even if i weren't gay.... why? because i support them and also believe they should be treated as an equal.

[miss barnes]

I'm not totally against homosexual, but I'm not supportive either.



I think probably not. Everyone has their own choice and I respect them.



Erm... I think no (sorry)

i pretty much agree with that ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[melface]

Okay... All these people who are against gay marriages.. Let's just pretend that you were denied a right everyone else of a different group still maintained... Let's say... All people who have brown eyes may not eat in a public restaurant... And that included you... How would you feel about this? Or let's say all people with brown eyes are not allowed to buy a car.. or even get married.... !! [gasp]