should a christian be a republican? Options

[Retrogressive]

I guess since republicans do not believe in homosexual marriages and abortion most christians I know are republicans. But what about the seperation between church and state? I guess morals have a lot to do with who you will vote for, but shouldn't it be the right person for the job? A lot of christian republicans that I know don't believe in abortion and that is a big issue of why they voted for bush, but I haven't seen bush do anything about abortion. I don't know is it wrong to be a democrat christian? Isn't kerry a christian?

[sikdragon]

Kerry shouldnt be a christian... everythings he says, does, and votes for is completely working against himself. He likes to take the good things that work to his advantage from christianity and completely diregard the rest. Bush does the right thing rather than the popular thing. He has moral back bone and defends the defenseless. He has signed bills against partial birth abortion. Republicans are mostly conservative meaning that they stick to what they know works. They dont expiriment on us like lab rats. Our founding fathers were prudes and wanted to up hold what was in the Bible instead of blindly worshipping the state.

[strice]

i can hardly call fighting for independence prude. democracy was a complete experiment. two of the most important revolutionaries, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, were not christian. Jefferson was atheist and Franklin was deist. I think it's better that Kerry is willing to defy the bible. a president bound to a lousy book is doomed to failure. choppiest. paragraph. ever.

[*tweeak*]

yes, kerry is catholic, but hes basically been anathemated from the church for being a pro-abortion public figure. christian republicans are not violating the separation of church and state, but bringing morality to the goernment. supposedly. at least in the way of abortion.

[sammi rules you]

yes they're both christian. some people make me angry when they say they're voting for bush because he's a strong christian..your vote for president shouldn't depend on religion.

[expoised]

i know a whole lot of democratic christians. i'm a christian republican, but it's not because bush is a Christian, its because i agree with what he stands for. which are mainly based on the Christian belief.

but hey, if you're brought up as a Christian, what you think is right and wrong would be different from what non-christians think is right and wrong. so of course religion plays a part in who you vote for. it's not directly affecting the government, but it's affecting morals, and that's whats important.

there's no way you can TOTALLY seperate church and state, without affecting the person you are.

i dunno if that made sense. whatever.

[*Kathleen*]

I'm atheist and I would consider myself a Republican. They're all just stereotypes, although Republicans tend to follow more religious morals. As a conservative atheist, I see nothing wrong with that. Where else would we get our morals? And as someone mentioned before - there can be no definite separation between church and state. It's impossible. There are certain morals within our very society that are based upon Christian values and beliefs. Granted, you may not instantly think that, but because our country was raised on them, it's been pounded into our brains and yes, I lost my train of thought...once I find it, I'll finish this.

[ComradeRed]

It depends on what kind of Christian.

Orthodox Christians and Catholics traditionally favor democrats slightly.
Mainline protestants traditionally favor republicans slightly.
Evangelican protestants favor republicans BY A LOT.

Jews lean democratic.
Muslims lean republican.

Interestingly enough, Islam is the MOST Republican religion in America. Nearly 80% of Muslims voted for Bush in 2000. If you do not include African-Americans, then about 88% of Muslims voted for Bush in 2000.

Currently, Bush is polling at 5-10% among Muslims, and is actually in third place, behind both Kerry and Badnarik.

[Spirited Away]

i can hardly call fighting for independence prude. democracy was a complete experiment. two of the most important revolutionaries, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, were not christian. Jefferson was atheist and Franklin was deist.

My dear, I don't mean to be picky (and breaking that whole "ignore" each other thing), but where did you hear that Jefferson was Atheist? He was a free-thinker and more Agnostic than Atheist.

But I do concede to your point.

[*CrackedRearView*]

Kerry's a Catholic at home and non-religious at work.

[strice]

my history teacher said that. i may have heard wrong since i often fall asleep, but the point is that he wasn't christian, as you noted.

i'd like to add to comradereds post. this year kerry has been endorsed by the muslim association for bush's "neglect for muslim rights". the muslim association or whatever its exact name is endorsed bush the previous election. my source being NPR, again.

and cracked, isn't that a good thing?

[Spirited Away]

Hmm, I believe Jefferson refered to God too much in his writings to make him Atheist. But I will further my readings to make sure of this.

[sikdragon]

i can hardly call fighting for independence prude. democracy was a complete experiment. two of the most important revolutionaries, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, were not christian. Jefferson was atheist and Franklin was deist. I think it's better that Kerry is willing to defy the bible. a president bound to a lousy book is doomed to failure. choppiest. paragraph. ever.

Democracy may have been an expiriment, but it's foundations had already been tested for a thousand years. A lousy book??? The greatest presidents who did the most for our country were not bound to the book, but chose to follow it's lead. Bush is not bound to the Bible, but follows it's clearly outlined example of how to lead a good life and making the world a better place.

[Spirited Away]

Democracy may have been an expiriment, but it's foundations had already been tested for a thousand years. A lousy book??? The greatest presidents who did the most for our country were not bound to the book, but chose to follow it's lead. Bush is not bound to the Bible, but follows it's clearly outlined example of how to lead a good life and making the world a better place.

Choose to follow its lead? Meaning?

If you mean to follow what the Bible teaches about morality, then this is quite misleading. Deism existed BEFORE the coming of Christ and morality (and immorality) existed BEFORE the coming of all religions. To believe in God doesn't make one Christian and to believe in God AND follow one's sense of morals definately doesn't make one Christian. Like many of our Founding Fathers, their references to God doesn't make them Christian. And the Bible doesn't lead what already existed in human nature.

[DittotoAnne18]

not necessarily, but most christians are.

Im 110% democrat

[mzteriouzme007]

yes they're both christian. some people make me angry when they say they're voting for bush because he's a strong christian..your vote for president shouldn't depend on religion.

i thought that religion is like.. u're EVERYDAY life, and i guess voting is part of life, right? GO BUSH!

[mzteriouzme007]

i'm 200% republicc

[sammi rules you]

kerry is christian; that's why i get so pissed off when one of my friends, john, tells me he'd vote for bush mostly because he's a strong christian.

yes, there should be separation between church and state. laws for the country should not be made according to the leaders religion. if bush made a reason against gay marriages that wasn't religious, i might consider him.

till then, it's all kerry. *fistpump* personally, he's against these things, but he wouldn't make laws about them according to his religion.

[sikdragon]

Choose to follow its lead? Meaning?

If you mean to follow what the Bible teaches about morality, then this is quite misleading. Deism existed BEFORE the coming of Christ and morality (and immorality) existed BEFORE the coming of all religions. To believe in God doesn't make one Christian and to believe in God AND follow one's sense of morals definately doesn't make one Christian. Like many of our Founding Fathers, their references to God doesn't make them Christian. And the Bible doesn't lead what already existed in human nature.

The Bible existed before Christ was born. I wasnt talking about our founding fathers. I was talking about christian presidents. Human nature is rebellion. The fruit from the tree of knowledge gave us that nature. The bible leads us to what good can make up our nature.

[sikdragon]

kerry is christian; that's why i get so pissed off when one of my friends, john, tells me he'd vote for bush mostly because he's a strong christian.

yes, there should be separation between church and state. laws for the country should not be made according to the leaders religion. if bush made a reason against gay marriages that wasn't religious, i might consider him.

till then, it's all kerry. *fistpump* personally, he's against these things, but he wouldn't make laws about them according to his religion.

Religion is what made this country great. It's homosexuals and the like that are destroying it. Perversness should not be made legal just because you have beef with your creator. Got questions about what i just said PM, IM, or Email about it. This thread is dead to me.

[Spirited Away]

Human nature is rebellion.

Sure, along side with obedience, curiosity, the will to survive... etc. So, what's your point?

Rebellion can be said to be part of our survial instinct. We would not want to meekly obey someone who's hurting us, do we? That's suicidal.

The fruit from the tree of knowledge gave us that nature. The bible leads us to what good can make up our nature.

But obedience, curiosity, the will to survive and many other "natures" existed long before the Bible. Therefore, once again, the Bible doesn't lead what's already existed before it. It only serve to repeat what some people have forgotten/choose to forget.

It's human nature to use our logic to figure out when rebellion is good and when it is bad because it's not always just bad.

Or do you mean to tell me that our rebellious nature is all bad?

[ComradeRed]

The Bible existed before Christ was born. I wasnt talking about our founding fathers. I was talking about christian presidents. Human nature is rebellion. The fruit from the tree of knowledge gave us that nature. The bible leads us to what good can make up our nature.

Read some of the stuff the Founding Fathers actually wrote.

Jefferson and Ben Franklin were Deists ... they believed that God created the world, but DID NOT play an active part in it. They invoked God the same way a Roman poet might invoke the Muses ... not "God protect us and deliver us from evil", but "We are inspired by what God stands for".

James Madison specifically said that the Constitution DID NOT permit government to fund religious schools, and that the foundations of the country were primarily secular (although certainly, religion ought to impact public life).

[strice]

sikdragon, you make some very odd statements. first it's that democracy wasn't an experiment and that the founding fathers were hardcore christians, now it's that religion makes this country great. i believe that it is the lack of a centralised religion that makes this country what it is. back in europe, nothing was going as well as it could have been all because of bickering over religion and genocide and what not. jefferson and the rest realised this and ensured the separation of church and state. it is religious people who are holding back our society, trying to pull us into their old world ideals. homosexuals are really a driving force in pop culture, and it's really quite stupid to say they're ruining anything.

[sikdragon]

Sure, along side with obedience, curiosity, the will to survive... etc. So, what's your point?

Rebellion can be said to be part of our survial instinct. We would not want to meekly obey someone who's hurting us, do we? That's suicidal.

But obedience, curiosity, the will to survive and many other "natures" existed long before the Bible. Therefore, once again, the Bible doesn't lead what's already existed before it. It only serve to repeat what some people have forgotten/choose to forget.

It's human nature to use our logic to figure out when rebellion is good and when it is bad because it's not always just bad.

Or do you mean to tell me that our rebellious nature is all bad? 

oh im not merely stating rebellion in general. Im assuming that everyone sees God in existence inevitably. I'm writing of rebellion against God and the road less travelled. Ignorance of your creator gives a distorted view of where pain and suffering come from. Ignorance is a far dangerous weapon than any atom splitting.

Those natures have been in our ways of thinking long before the written bible, but God's word has always existed.

Read some of the stuff the Founding Fathers actually wrote.

Jefferson and Ben Franklin were Deists ... they believed that God created the world, but DID NOT play an active part in it. They invoked God the same way a Roman poet might invoke the Muses ... not "God protect us and deliver us from evil", but "We are inspired by what God stands for".

James Madison specifically said that the Constitution DID NOT permit government to fund religious schools, and that the foundations of the country were primarily secular (although certainly, religion ought to impact public life).

Do you even read what you quote?? ill give you the benefit of the doubt and just assume you misread it. I said "I wasn't talking about our founding fathers."

sikdragon, you make some very odd statements. first it's that democracy wasn't an experiment and that the founding fathers were hardcore christians, now it's that religion makes this country great. i believe that it is the lack of a centralised religion that makes this country what it is. back in europe, nothing was going as well as it could have been all because of bickering over religion and genocide and what not. jefferson and the rest realised this and ensured the separation of church and state. it is religious people who are holding back our society, trying to pull us into their old world ideals. homosexuals are really a driving force in pop culture, and it's really quite stupid to say they're ruining anything.

Oh ho ho isnt the kettle calling the pot black. There is nothing new to be discovered. Everything is in cycle. No utopia on this earth is possible. Think back to a time when people could leave their doors unlocked. People helped each other out and everyone knew everyone. In today's "SELF" improvement society morality, lawfulness, and even decency have all been taken back to their primal stages. Honor doesnt even exist. To be called civilized is almost impossible. The fault of humanity is that we need to be lead. Communism fails because absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is only true in men. The Bible describes a perfect community. Love, trust, and happiness replace greed, hate, and fear. Tell me how can loving your enemies be bad???
Without morality and law there cannot be order or peace. When laws begin to degrade to anarchy the one with the most power just creates more law of a more corrupt and biased nature. faggs, lesbians, thieves, liars, biggots, hatemongers, adulterers, terrorists, murderers, and the ignorant destroy everything our founding fathers believed in.

WE ARE GIVEN THREE GOD GIVEN RIGHTS: LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS.

Flip on the tv look outside, that is what happens when people have lost what their parents tried to tell them about happiness. Everyone is searching for it. Everyone is trying to fill that hole. What happiness is lost... or is it? Wait, when you're lost follow the trail of bread crumbs back through the history of your travels back to your roots. Follow the path back and retrace your steps until you've found what your looking for. If you blindly barge ahead without looking back, how will you know if you're going in circles?

Seperation of Church and state is a good thing and a bad thing. Like taking the rules off the classroom walls and expecting the kids to follow them. When religion is forced it becomes habitual and loses it's meaning. When you discover for yourself, you understand why they wanted you to follow them.

God loves you. God had to create us with freewill because he wants to love and be loved. Remember back in the day when you were fighting with your siblings and your mom or dad made your brother or sister apologize to you? It would've meant so much more if they apologized before hand and really cared if you forgave them. If you build a robot and program it to love you, it isn't the same as meeting someone who is just crazy about you or having kids who even though you have to discipline them grow up and thank-you for it. Having kids who don't stick you in a nursing home. A robot can't choose to love you. It is in it's programming. It thinks and feels what you tell it to.

With freewill when you choose not to love him, you are telling him not to invite you to stay with him.


Now back to the actual topic.
Back a long long time ago. There were small towns where everyone knew everyone. You couldn't be, let's say "different" and be open about it. You were accepted that way. Murderers and the like were stoned or lynched, depending on time period. So these different people moved to the cities which were all about change. Capitalism, making money, was just defining itself and republicans like lincoln supported it. These "different" people were becoming rich or atleast living better than their small town counter parts. Democrats supported the small towns and got support from the small towns. Then sometime along the line it switched. The conservatives became republican keeping the constitutions of the wiser generations. Democrats supported the perverseness which runs along side capitalism and freedom of the big cities. Not to say capitalism or freedom are perverse. This is where we find ourselves today. Liberal, socialists, and communists under the democratic flag are advocating change searching for the perfect society blinded by greed. Conservative republicans are running around trying to keep the good things of old. The good qualities like civilization and morality and keep them as well as the capitalism and freedom. The easiest road to morality is the road less taken, the narrow path of the Bible. The Bible is a compilation of a journey of a people who have been enlightened via divine intervention. People who have walked among the world's greatest man(God incarnate). People who have discovered life's most hidden obscure secrets. The most complex resolution...Simplicity.

Now a group of people who are trying to keep the good of our country and are Christian works smoothly. Why? They have a common enemy.

[Spirited Away]

oh im not merely stating rebellion in general. Im assuming that everyone sees God in existence inevitably. I'm writing  of rebellion against God and the road less travelled. Ignorance of your creator gives a distorted view of where pain and suffering come from. Ignorance is a far dangerous weapon than any atom splitting.

Those natures have been in our ways of thinking long before the written bible, but God's word has always existed.

Right...

The ancients were ignorant of God but their descendants survive to this day. Knowing God doesn't exists or being doubtful of His existence doesn't make a person ignorant because each person has his/her own truths. God gave us free will, so why wouldn't we be able to have our own truths? If having our own truths make us ignorant, than doesn't that means God's gift of free will make us ignorant?

I see pain and suffering the same way any normal/sane/healthy person would. I also see it as a trial of survival of the fittest, of nature. The only distortion I see is when someone tries to tell someone else that though they suffer now, they'll be rewarded in death if they believe in God. This will make that person lazy in the way that they won't want to try harder. Of course, this laziness is a sin, but what else do you expect? After all, it's in our nature to sin as you like to put it. Nevertheless, the person now holds a distorted view of religion, of life, of death.

The existence of God's words can be said to be a distorted state of mind. After all, what do you call someone who thinks there are voices speaking to them in their head? (I do apologize if I'm offending you.)

Oh ho ho isnt the kettle calling the pot black. There is nothing new to be discovered. Everything is in cycle. No utopia on this earth is possible. Think back to a time when people  could leave their doors unlocked. People helped each other out and everyone knew everyone.

When did that ever happened? People probably didn't lock their doors because they didn't invented the lock yet.

If you have a heart capable of basic emotions, i.e. loneliness/sympathy, you'd help your neighbor out, too, when you can. Everyone knew everyone because everyone has time to talk to each other and have collective tribal meetings. Nowdays, single moms/dads, married couples don't even see each other until the sun's down. We rarely have time for greetings.

In today's "SELF" improvement society morality, lawfulness, and even decency have all been taken back to their primal stages. Honor doesnt even exist. To be called civilized is almost impossible. The fault of humanity is that we need to be lead.

Those without honor, decency, morals... etc cannot be grouped with those that do. Having religion doesn't make a person honorable NOR humble, it makes him/her thirsts for a truth that is beyond reach in life. The MANY faults of humanity are simply flaws that make us the species that we are. Without them, we wouldn't be humans, we'd be gods.

Communism fails because absolute power corrupts absolutely. Which is only true in men. The Bible describes a perfect community. Love, trust, and happiness replace greed, hate, and fear. Tell me how can loving your enemies be bad???

If we're without greed, hate, and fear, we wouldn't be human. In fact, you're fond of saying there's only black and white. How about perfection and imperfection? We're imperfect, this makes us human. God is perfect, that makes Him almighty. If we were perfect, we'd rival God. Thus, love, honor, happiness go hand in hand with greed, hate, and fear to balance us out. You said that we would not know light if there was no darkness (hate, greed, etc), we wouldn't know God/perfection (light), if we were perfect ourselves.

Without morality and law there cannot be order or peace. When laws begin to degrade to anarchy the one with the most power just creates more law of a more corrupt and biased nature. faggs, lesbians, thieves, liars, biggots, hatemongers, adulterers, terrorists, murderers, and the ignorant destroy everything our founding fathers believed in.

Our Founding Fathers believed in free will. Though restricted, to protect the rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness FOR ALL, they still believed in free will. This means that with or without God watching over us, we still have free will. We follow laws and morality to ensure our own security and peace of mind.

Flip on the tv look outside, that is what happens when people have lost what their parents tried to tell them about happiness. Everyone is searching for it. Everyone is trying to fill that hole. What happiness is lost... or is it? Wait, when you're lost follow the trail of bread crumbs back through the history of your travels back to your roots. Follow the path back and retrace your steps until you've found what your looking for. If you blindly barge ahead without looking back, how will you know if you're going in circles?

Is that how YOU look for happiness and you're assuming that others do the same?

Well, that's not how happiness comes to be, in my opinion. People search for happiness all their life but it may never come to them. True that if you want happiness, you seek for happiness. However, sometimes you need to let life take charge instead of charging at it like a madman/woman. This of course, is up to your discretion.

Do you believe in predestination?

Seperation of Church and state is a good thing and a bad thing. Like taking the rules off the classroom walls and expecting the kids to follow them. When religion is forced it becomes habitual and loses it's meaning. When you discover for yourself, you understand why they wanted you to follow them.

Replace "morality" in for the word "religion".

God loves you. God had to create us with freewill because he wants to love and be loved. Remember back in the day when you were fighting with your siblings and your mom or dad made your brother or sister apologize to you? It would've meant so much more if they apologized before hand and really cared if you forgave them. If you build a robot and program it to love you, it isn't the same as meeting someone who is just crazy about you or having kids who even though you have to discipline them grow up and thank-you for it. Having kids who don't stick you in a nursing home. A robot can't choose to love you. It is in it's programming. It thinks and feels what you tell it to.

Eh, I've had several hand to hand combat with my brother and we ALWAYS make up after. We're what you'd considered heathens, but we're still very morally minded people because our parents taught us love of family. I don't need religion to tell me to love my family when I already do love them.

Morality existed before organized religion. Laws are first based on morality and then as we are more civilized and know more about morality, laws change to adjust. Organized religion came along and takes credit for what already existed before it.

The easiest road to morality is the road less taken, the narrow path of the Bible. The Bible is a compilation of a journey of a people who have been enlightened via divine intervention. People who have walked among the world's greatest man(God incarnate). People who have discovered life's most hidden obscure secrets. The most complex resolution...Simplicity.

"God incarnate", I'll call him Christ. The easiest road to morality is love.

Now a group of people who are trying to keep the good of our country and are Christian works smoothly. Why? They have a common enemy.

So, you seem to be suggesting the rest of us non-Christians to be to common enemy. Do you hear how hateful that sounds?