is there an heaven and a hell??, and which one are you going to? Options

[Spirited Away]

Good for you but please do not make the mistake of claiming no other person suffered as Jesus on the cross. Throughout history, Christians have persecuted PLENTY of people from different religious backgrounds perhaps in ways worse than how Jesus died (think witches and Jews)... of course I'm basing my this particular arguement on the movie "Passion of Christ".

Rabbi Ariel Bar Tzadok has this to say: "When I see the character of Jesus suffering, I think of the countless real Jews who have suffered just as Jesus is portrayed in the movie."

... my point? Jesus suffered, but so did many others, after all, we do not have a word called "martyrs" for no reason, so don't think that only Jesus suffered in the name of religion.

[sikdragon]

heaven and hell are less real to me then never never land. and if their were a heaven and hell, everyone would go to hell. theres no way you can't sin. no possible way.

That is why an innocent was crucified and took upon himself all of the sins of everyone to have taken a breath. To go to heaven you must wipe the slate clean by admitting you have sinned and being remorseful asking the creator to forgive your trespasses.

[sikdragon]

The difference is that Jesus was innocent and never deserved to suffer, by any standard. The passion of the Christ was just a movie. His suffering was much worse than that.

[xnastyninjagrlx]

Why do you focus on life, death and suffering? There are things in between, like I have said.

Sorry if i sounded like I was focusing more on death and suffering, but I was trying to say that it's good to have all those success (work, family, friends..etc.) I don't think that living life for these things are not right, I just believe that life is just a stepping stone for eternity. For me, I want to live life in the light of eternity, I want to know life after death and what reallly happens. The things in between as you mentioned ARE important aspects in my daily life, but I believe those are not the ONLY things. As Christians "it is better to die once and born again in heaven, than to die twice suffering in hell."

I've NEVER said that we are here to live and die, in fact, my purpose in life is simply to live.

I don't think it's wrong to simply live life, cuz life is beautiful and it is worth living for. That's why God put us here on earth, to enjoy what he has blessed us with and to develop faith and a relationship with Him. Heaven and hell are juss two choices in eternity, just like in life, you have choice to go to school because you want to get education, and education will get you a good job, and therefore be successful. In life, everything has a cycle, families live in generation after generation. You wouldn't make friends if you think you didnt need them later on in life. So there has got to be something else we are living for in life itself. (besides the good things in life.)

Also another thing, you mention being content on focusing on living, do you believe life ends completely after that, or do you think there is an afterlife, just not in heaven or hell. I'm just curious (this might start another topic..but sorry)

[xnastyninjagrlx]

How about the tribes that live in places like the Amazon and Indonesia and who may have absolutely no contact with the outside world. They never have heard of Christ or the Christian God for that matter. Do these people go to Hell?

God loves everyone and even those who don't know about Him. That is why we are called as his followers to "go out to the nations, and baptize everyone in the name of the Jesus Christ." Meaning, besides having a relationship with God, Christians are responsible to evangalize and share the gospel with those who don't know about his love. As I mentioned before in god part II God is not to blame for the death of those who don't know him, it is our job as Christians to bring the as many people as we can towards Jesus Christ here on earth.

[xpLiCitsmuRfette]

hell isn't for anybody who sins. its for the major sins, unsaved, and really ugly ppl lol jk

I guess im going to hell then

[lyin_in_wait]

well i believe in both but then again, everybody cant go to one or the other i mean, we still have ghosts and stuff, but i hope i have fun where every i go but then again all the stuff i do, im goin to hell

[raw_material]

well i believe in both but then again, everybody cant go to one or the other i mean, we still have ghosts and stuff, but i hope i have fun where every i go but then again all the stuff i do, im goin to hell

i can tell ur not even sure where ur going the day u die...u said "then again all the stuff i do,im going to hell" u dont go 2 heaven or hell depending on all the bad or goods stuff we do...if it was like that ..then dam we would all go 2 hell cuz theres noo perfect person in this world...thats why god offered us the gift of eternal life....if there is no hell...then where did god sent the devil after he kicked him out of heaven??

[Spirited Away]

The passion of the Christ was just a movie. His suffering was much worse than that.

Duke it out with Mel Gibson, he's the one who wrongly portrayed it... though, I've been told it was accurate except that he suffered longer than the movie (obviously).

Sorry if i sounded like I was focusing more on death and suffering, but I was trying to say that it's good to have all those success (work, family, friends..etc.) I don't think that living life for these things are not right, I just believe that life is just a stepping stone for eternity. For me, I want to live life in the light of eternity, I want to know life after death and what reallly happens. The things in between as you mentioned ARE important aspects in my daily life, but I believe those are not the ONLY things. As Christians "it is better to die once and born again in heaven, than to die twice suffering in hell."

The main distinction between us is NOT in our differing views on religion, but rather, it is in our expectations.

My expectations only go as far as this life, and in my humble opinion, to plan for anything beyond mortality is illogical. As for Christians who say that it is better to die once and go to Heaven... etc, it seems like their fear of Hell is the only motivation to believe. Perhaps there is also the love of God that drive them to believe, but I have the love of life, and that's enough.

I don't think it's wrong to simply live life, cuz life is beautiful and it is worth living for. That's why God put us here on earth, to enjoy what he has blessed us with and to develop faith and a relationship with Him. Heaven and hell are juss two choices in eternity, just like in life, you have choice to go to school because you want to get education, and education will get you a good job, and therefore be successful. In life, everything has a cycle, families live in generation after generation. You wouldn't make friends if you think you didnt need them later on in life. So there has got to be something else we are living for in life itself. (besides the good things in life.)

Once again, our expectations of what life is and isn't set the stage for this debate. I think what you're getting at (let me know if I'm wrong) is simply "life is short" and that life isn't Paradise, therefore there must be something more to offer than this.

I think life is short, too, so then I must live, to the best of my ability, so that I will never regret not living (not knowing what life has to offer).

Life, to me, isn't Paradise either, but it is close to it depending HOW you look at things. There are sufferings and there are plenty of Evil, but IF my life's purpose of contributing positively to society succeeds, then I will rid the world of ONE LESS Evil, and THAT is a "steping stone" to Paradise on Earth.

Also another thing, you mention being content on focusing on living, do you believe life ends completely after that, or do you think there is an afterlife, just not in heaven or hell. I'm just curious (this might start another topic..but sorry)

In my concept of life, I do not emphasize Death simply because I am open to all posibilities: reincarnation, Heaven and Hell, even nothingness, and others. Knowing that I will go to Hell for my disbelief, I choose to accept it as something inevitable, but I will not completely betray myself to religion.

[xnastyninjagrlx]

My expectations only go as far as this life, and in my humble opinion, to plan for anything beyond mortality is illogical. As for Christians who say that it is better to die once and go to Heaven... etc, it seems like their fear of Hell is the only motivation to believe. Perhaps there is also the love of God that drive them to believe, but I have the love of life, and that's enough.

I think your main focus is on life and living life itself, which is perfectly fine. For Christians, we HAVE to plan beyond mortality because one day our God promised us he will come down to earth again and save those who have been faithful to Him. So for us, it is not illogical to plan after life, that is why we look at life as a "dress rehersal" before heaven. Everything we do on earth dictates what is going to happen to us come judgement day. As for fear of Hell, that is honestly one reason to look at it cuz I know a lot of Christians believe because they want to "get out" of Hell. For me, it WAS a part of that, but I've come to accept God as my Savior and acknowledge his undying love for me and in turn I want to spend eternity with Him in Heaven because of what he did for me. I think the love of life is great because God give you life and surely it is something to praise and be joyous about, but I know He gave me this life and therefore my love/motivation is to met him in Heaven.

Once again, our expectations of what life is and isn't set the stage for this debate. I think what you're getting at (let me know if I'm wrong) is simply "life is short" and that life isn't Paradise, therefore there must be something more to offer than this.

I agree everyone's expecations are different. Life is short, no doubt, even God warned us to beware of the "evil days" to come. What I was getting at is that Heaven and Hell are what is offered after death. I think the main distinction is you live life on what you can achieve something positive here physically on earth, of course that is not wrong cuz that is how God wants us to live our life. But he also wants us to live what HE has to OFFER to us and the plans that he has. Some people may think what they are doing now is what God wants them to do, but God can change ur life in a split second and send you off to be a missionary, pastor..etc. So I think to ponder about life after death is perfectly healthy because then you will start living a life towards eternity rather than what is offered right now at this moment.

In my concept of life, I do not emphasize Death simply because I am open to all posibilities: reincarnation, Heaven and Hell, even nothingness, and others. Knowing that I will go to Hell for my disbelief, I choose to accept it as something inevitable, but I will not completely betray myself to religion.

ohh i see.., so if there is nothingness would there be a difference between life and death? Personally reincarnation doesn't do it for me cuz the whole idea of it is that we turn into something else completely different from what we were before. Humans are the most unique species on earth and to have the idea that we turn into something other than what we already is very odd.

[Spirited Away]

I think your main focus is on life and living life itself, which is perfectly fine. For Christians, we HAVE to plan beyond mortality because one day our God promised us he will come down to earth again and save those who have been faithful to Him. So for us, it is not illogical to plan after life, that is why we look at life as a "dress rehersal" before heaven. Everything we do on earth dictates what is going to happen to us come judgement day. As for fear of Hell, that is honestly one reason to look at it cuz I know a lot of Christians believe because they want to "get out" of Hell. For me, it WAS a part of that, but I've come to accept God as my Savior and acknowledge his undying love for me and in turn I want to spend eternity with Him in Heaven because of what he did for me. I think the love of life is great because God give you life and surely it is something to praise and be joyous about, but I know He gave me this life and therefore my love/motivation is to met him in Heaven.

Right, then that means all we have are expectations, not truths. Maybe one can say that expectations can come to be true, but then again, there are MANY expectations.

I agree everyone's expecations are different. Life is short, no doubt, even God warned us to beware of the "evil days" to come. What I was getting at is that Heaven and Hell are what is offered after death. I think the main distinction is you live life on what you can achieve something positive here physically on earth, of course that is not wrong cuz that is how God wants us to live our life. But he also wants us to live what HE has to OFFER to us and the plans that he has. Some people may think what they are doing now is what God wants them to do, but God can change ur life in a split second and send you off to be a missionary, pastor..etc. So I think to ponder about life after death is perfectly healthy because then you will start living a life towards eternity rather than what is offered right now at this moment.

Sure, to look at both Life and Death is perfectly normal, but to dwell on them is very much unhealthy... it becomes an obsession.

ohh i see.., so if there is nothingness would there be a difference between life and death? Personally reincarnation doesn't do it for me cuz the whole idea of it is that we turn into something else completely different from what we were before. Humans are the most unique species on earth and to have the idea that we turn into something other than what we already is very odd.

Erm, no . Nothingness in Death doesn't equate to nothingness in Life because even a person who's comatose (may experience nothingness, with the exception of dreams) is loved/cared for or at least his/her existence is acknowledged by someone and that's NOT nothingness.

Actually I do not think you have the whole idea on what reincarnation is... Reincarnation makes more sense to me than Heaven and Hell. While reincarnation punishes the ones who have done evil and rewards the good, the concept of Heaven and Hell rewards the bad with eternal bliss only if he/she 'believes'.

There is a cycle to almost everything (think planets revolving around the Sun and how plants can grow where a dead animal decayed...) and reincarnation is a cycle of life and death...

[xnastyninjagrlx]

Sure, to look at both Life and Death is perfectly normal, but to dwell on them is very much unhealthy... it becomes an obsession.

As a Christian, I think I have to dwell or at least ponder Death a little bit cuz I know there are two main questions God will ask me on judgement day. What did you do with my son Jesus Christ? and What did you do with what I gave you? I don't dwell on it EVERYDAY but I think about it constantly cuz I wanna be able to answer these questions without "messing up" if you will. So kinda like preparing for the unexpected.

Erm, no  . Nothingness in Death doesn't equate to nothingness in Life because even a person who's comatose (may experience nothingness, with the exception of dreams) is loved/cared for or at least his/her existence is acknowledged by someone and that's NOT nothingness.

oh I thought you meant nothingness is like after death that is the end of you, nothing more, I was purely thinking nothingness in death. But if there is nothingness in death I think that relates to life because what's the point of living if everyone is going to die anyways without anything in life affecting you after death. I mean of course there isn't nothingness in life, there is a whole lot of things that people can contribute to society and the example of the person who's comatose as you said.
Another thing, I was wondering, so does atheist believe in nothingness? I'm not saying your atheist..it juss crossed my mind now.

Actually I do not think you have the whole idea on what reincarnation is... Reincarnation makes more sense to me than Heaven and Hell. While reincarnation punishes the ones who have done evil and rewards the good, the concept of Heaven and Hell rewards the bad with eternal bliss only if he/she 'believes'.

I think in these forums many people say you gotta BELIEVE, just BELIEVE, and that's enough. In my opinion, I don't think that is enough. THink about it, even the Devil recoginzes and BELIEVES Jesus is God, so if you only BELIEVE and not live a life for Christ it's like knowing the answers on a test and still getting an "F" on it. It is easier to Believe in Jesus than to actually live a life for Him and like Him. Believing is definitely a major aspect, but God does not want to stop you there. He wants you to grow with him and have a good relationship with him throughout your life. Believing is the first step to salvation, but to apply the things in the Bible to your own lives is something totally different.
As for rewarding the bad, God just has an unconditional love for everyone, even the worst people you can think of. When I first came to believe, I thought rewarding the bad was kinda absurd too, but I realize God is a God of love, and he came down to Earth as a Savior to all, but mainly for those who were broken, suffering, in pain..etc. Not to say he is not there for the people who are doing fine, it is that he has a deeper compasion for those who are not loved by others. He loves them even more because he knows that they need Him. It's like if you went into a hospital with a sprain ankle, but someone comes in who has been shot and almost near death, the doctor is going to accompany him first. God is here to help those that need to be saved rather than those who already have salvation and know of his Word. (Although that doesn't mean he loves those good people any less.)

[Spirited Away]

As a Christian, I think I have to dwell or at least ponder Death a little bit cuz I know there are two main questions God will ask me on judgement day. What did you do with my son Jesus Christ? and What did you do with what I gave you? I don't dwell on it EVERYDAY but I think about it constantly cuz I wanna be able to answer these questions without "messing up" if you will. So kinda like preparing for the unexpected.

I believe I can answer those questions with confidence even without practicing. Because I am expecting the unexpected (other possibilities aside from Heaven and Hell), I feel like I'm prepared for ANYTHING instead of just one possibility.

oh I thought you meant nothingness is like after death that is the end of you, nothing more, I was purely thinking nothingness in death. But if there is nothingness in death I think that relates to life because what's the point of living if everyone is going to die anyways without anything in life affecting you after death. I mean of course there isn't nothingness in life, there is a whole lot of things that people can contribute to society and the example of the person who's comatose as you said.
Another thing, I was wondering, so does atheist believe in nothingness? I'm not saying your atheist..it juss crossed my mind now.

Ah, no, I DID meant nothingness in Death as you assumed... I thought I made it clear that nothingness in Death wouldn't faze me at all seeing how I already truly LIVED? What more can I ask for then to live a meaningful life? Heaven? Nah, seeing how that would actually mean constricting free will and what I'm set out to do.

What's the purpose of life if there is nothing in Death? I would like to think that everyone has something to live for (ie you for God, and I for my life's purpose), and if one has accomplished or tried his/her best to attain that something, he/she can be (should be) satisfied. To ask for more than satisfaction is greed, no matter how you look at it. Meaning, one's purpose(s) in life IS (one of) the meaning(s) of his/her life, in my opinion.

Most Atheists believe that nothing happens after Death as there are no such thing as the supernatural, and others simply believe that there is NO God. The answer depends on what kind of Atheist you speak with... I cannot answer for them as they have their own concepts of Life and Death, in fact, I speak for no one but myself.

I think in these forums many people say you gotta BELIEVE, just BELIEVE, and that's enough. In my opinion, I don't think that is enough. THink about it, even the Devil recoginzes and BELIEVES Jesus is God, so if you only BELIEVE and not live a life for Christ it's like knowing the answers on a test and still getting an "F" on it. It is easier to Believe in Jesus than to actually live a life for Him and like Him. Believing is definitely a major aspect, but God does not want to stop you there. He wants you to grow with him and have a good relationship with him throughout your life. Believing is the first step to salvation, but to apply the things in the Bible to your own lives is something totally different.

Erm, I do not believe in the Devil, therefore it's hard to imagine He would believe in God... But does evil believing really relevant? In Buddhism, evil beings also believe in reicarnation, and Atheists believe in nothingness... To say that even the Devil believes in God, is quite confounding seeing how evils in each religion can believe their own phenomenons.

Wouldn't you agree that ANY educational facility that would give a student an 'F', while he completed ALL answers correctly, is an UNJUST educational system? What kind of (T)eacher gives a student an F for correctly answering the test questions? An angry, unjust, uncaring, (T)eacher. PERIOD.

As for rewarding the bad, God just has an unconditional love for everyone, even the worst people you can think of. When I first came to believe, I thought rewarding the bad was kinda absurd too, but I realize God is a God of love, and he came down to Earth as a Savior to all, but mainly for those who were broken, suffering, in pain..etc. Not to say he is not there for the people who are doing fine, it is that he has a deeper compasion for those who are not loved by others. He loves them even more because he knows that they need Him. It's like if you went into a hospital with a sprain ankle, but someone comes in who has been shot and almost near death, the doctor is going to accompany him first. God is here to help those that need to be saved rather than those who already have salvation and know of his Word. (Although that doesn't mean he loves those good people any less.)

My point is, I do not like a God who rewards the bad while punishing the good and virtuous for simply not believing. According to such system, murders will enjoy eternal life, while charitable, good-hearted, and loving people will suffer Hell. Nothing could EVER make sense from that.

[Revolt]

If there is a God, then He knowingly created us with the capacity to sin, and as such cannot hold us responsible for something we were predestined to do, through His own creation.

If He is all knowing as all Christians say, then He already knows whether or not we will sin and He knows whether or not we will repent for those sins. With that in mind, then all people damned to hell never even had a fair chance, regardless of this "free will" we were supposedly endowed with.

If He is all knowing, free will is meaningless in his judgement.

That is why I believe religion was and always will be just a means to control the people, there is no heaven and there is no hell. I believe when you die that you simply cease to exist, and because your mind cannot perceive this, it does not matter.

It is my opinion that if there is a God, the people who are damned to hell were meant to go there and there's absolutely nothing you can do to prevent it.

There does not necessarily have to be a purpose to life.

[Spirited Away]

There does not necessarily have to be a purpose to life.

More power to you.

[sweetdreamsx3]

There is heaven and hell for those who believe in them.

Yeah, I agree. Those who believe would always believe in that no matter what anyone says. In my case though, I'm agnostic. (not sure if that's a noun or a verb or whatever) Oh welps. I don't have anything that I believe in that has to do with religion. Hehe..

[rozee]

lol! lemme clear this up! i'm a christian, and i learned that no matter if you are religious or not, there is a heaven and a hell. people who go to heaven are people who accepted Christ in their hearts. in other words, christians will go to heaven. those who have heard about God and Jesus but decide not to become christians will go to hell, even if you did a million good deeds. because accepting Jesus into your heart is the key to heaven.

[Spirited Away]

Psh, how come there's always someone who will say "I'll clear this up", and then nothing new is said, but just adds on to the controversy with something that's been debated again and again? I don't get it.

[DaNgErOusLy_In_L...]

Iz there a heaven or hell...? HmMm... actualli, ya kno, i'm Catholic, n i bun thru 7 yearz uv CCD[skool for church], n all we lurned bout wuz heaven, hell, God, devil, etc. so actualli i go believe therez a heaven n a hell .. n which one m i goin to?? o boi.. i cant answer that, cauz i do bad thyngz [i mean no1 iz perfect] n i do good thyngz... so thatz all up to God!!! [most uv us grlz do bad thyngz]

Ashlyn

>>cLiK DiS [XANGA]<<

[xnastyninjagrlx]

Ah, no, I DID meant nothingness in Death as you assumed... I thought I made it clear that nothingness in Death wouldn't faze me at all seeing how I already truly LIVED? What more can I ask for then to live a meaningful life? Heaven? Nah, seeing how that would actually mean constricting free will and what I'm set out to do.

I'm sorry in the midst of all this debate sometimes it's hard to keep up. Anyways, I think basically it all comes down to free will. I think you mean free will for you is living by what you believe it is right and being able to do whatever you want whennever you want. The difference is, as Christians it's all about focusing less on ourselves and more on other people and God. Yes, God gives us free will to choose to believe Him or not, but our free will isn't ours to begin with. Christians believe that "one hasn't lived, until one lives in the light of God." So I'm not saying turly living for youself is wrong, I just think maybe that is an issue of world today because people concentrate on "what are MY goals, ambition, future,..etc" The more and more one lives for Christ, the less important everything else around oneself seem to be. I know free will is a big controversy and it is a bigger issue these days since everyone is entitled to "equal rights," but I just think that freedom is a gift and to choose sin is to abuse the gift of freedom.

To ask for more than satisfaction is greed, no matter how you look at it. Meaning, one's purpose(s) in life IS (one of) the meaning(s) of his/her life, in my opinion.

Actually to ask for more in a sense of asking God for things that He thinks will be beneficial to your growth is not greed at all. God desires us to have a hunger for his Word and his knowledge of Him, Heaven, and Hell. There is always room for people to grow spiritually. So asking for like cars and money is probably not appropaite to your growth on earth because technically you won't own it forever. Things such as to help your friends grow closer to God, people in sickness, for the Church..those are prayers God loves to hear more. So to desire something of possession is probably greed, but to have a desire to be close to God and more like God is a blessing.

Erm, I do not believe in the Devil, therefore it's hard to imagine He would believe in God... But does evil believing really relevant? In Buddhism, evil beings also believe in reicarnation, and Atheists believe in nothingness... To say that even the Devil believes in God, is quite confounding seeing how evils in each religion can believe their own phenomenons.

Well I wasn't speaking of evils of ALL religions, I was speaking of Satan, Lucifer if you will, the devil of angel that God once created as one of his angels. It isnt hard to imagine the devil believing in God because if you believe there even is a God, there has to be some counter balance. Why do you think one of God's fallen angels became a devil? He thought he was more powerful than God and he wanted to abuse his freedom that God has given him. So of course the devil knows there is a God because he defied God in the first place. That is why I mention that people who just THINK they know God is not enough because even the Devil knows and has seen God.

Wouldn't you agree that ANY educational facility that would give a student an 'F', while he completed ALL answers correctly, is an UNJUST educational system? What kind of (T)eacher gives a student an F for correctly answering the test questions? An angry, unjust, uncaring, (T)eacher. PERIOD.

Sorry for the Bad analogy, but what I was getting at is the student's view on the test, not the educational system. Just as most Christians KNOW about God doesn't mean that they will get an "A" in life or go to heaven. So if the student knows the answers but does not use what he knows to apply it to the test, then it is a waste of time and makes no difference if he/she didn't study in the first place.

[Spirited Away]

I'm sorry in the midst of all this debate sometimes it's hard to keep up. Anyways, I think basically it all comes down to free will. I think you mean free will for you is living by what you believe it is right and being able to do whatever you want whennever you want. The difference is, as Christians it's all about focusing less on ourselves and more on other people and God. Yes, God gives us free will to choose to believe Him or not, but our free will isn't ours to begin with. Christians believe that "one hasn't lived, until one lives in the light of God." So I'm not saying turly living for youself is wrong, I just think maybe that is an issue of world today because people concentrate on "what are MY goals, ambition, future,..etc" The more and more one lives for Christ, the less important everything else around oneself seem to be. I know free will is a big controversy and it is a bigger issue these days since everyone is entitled to "equal rights," but I just think that freedom is a gift and to choose sin is to abuse the gift of freedom.

Ah, if focusing on oneself isn't bad, then why must one do anything differently? Living for my "goals/ambitions" shouldn't be a bother to anyone else unless I plan to murder or rape people...

Free will shouldn't be a controversy. If it is indeed what God gave us, then it is CLEAR that free will shouldn't be debated. We must all agree what the true definition of free will is, after all, if you look up the word "free" and "will" seperately you'd get something that is not bounded by any limiting factor. Equal rights should not and cannot be compared to free will. While equal rights still signifies freedom, there is the limiting fact of the LAW, while free will is supposed to be a God given right.

Choosing to live life for oneself isn't a sin as you have said, unless it is done immorally and we can all agree quite a few things that are moral/immoral without bringing religion into it. So once again I ask, why must we live any differently if focusing on our lives isn't a bad thing?

I focus on my life, but I also focus on what environmental factors and societal factors that will affect my life. Meaning, I do not condone illegal drug use/rape/murder because those immoral things affect my life directly and indirectly. Do you think that I'm only focusing on MY life only, or also those around me? It's NOT a selfish thing to do, it is a HUMAN thing to do.

Actually to ask for more in a sense of asking God for things that He thinks will be beneficial to your growth is not greed at all. God desires us to have a hunger for his Word and his knowledge of Him, Heaven, and Hell. There is always room for people to grow spiritually. So asking for like cars and money is probably not appropaite to your growth on earth because technically you won't own it forever. Things such as to help your friends grow closer to God, people in sickness, for the Church..those are prayers God loves to hear more. So to desire something of possession is probably greed, but to have a desire to be close to God and more like God is a blessing.

So what, does He thinks, will be beneficial to our growth exactly? How His words are interpreted is rather tricky, don't you think? I think that instead of building NEW Churches or buying new property for Churches... etc, collection money should go towards feeding the hungry, homeless, and orphans in the nation as well as around the world. Now, I'm quite aware that some Churches do this already, but not every Church... Do you think that God thinks building beautiful Churches and buying property is better than helping fellow man? I'm sure the hungry and needy pray just as much, perhaps more, to God than anyone if they happen to be in the Christian faith. I'd like to see God help them then then likes of me, who do not give a hoot about religion.

Well I wasn't speaking of evils of ALL religions, I was speaking of Satan, Lucifer if you will, the devil of angel that God once created as one of his angels. It isnt hard to imagine the devil believing in God because if you believe there even is a God, there has to be some counter balance. Why do you think one of God's fallen angels became a devil? He thought he was more powerful than God and he wanted to abuse his freedom that God has given him. So of course the devil knows there is a God because he defied God in the first place. That is why I mention that people who just THINK they know God is not enough because even the Devil knows and has seen God.

Not quite. I only believe in a Creator, Who happens to be NEUTRAL, thus good and evil co-exist. If the Creator is all virtuous and good, then He would NOT allow evil into existence.

So you mean to say that there bad Christians and there are good Christians when you say that there are those who claims to know God, but actually do not. But then what makes you a good Christian? What makes anyone a good Christian? What make Lutherans anymore correct about to worship than Baptists?

Sorry for the Bad analogy, but what I was getting at is the student's view on the test, not the educational system. Just as most Christians KNOW about God doesn't mean that they will get an "A" in life or go to heaven. So if the student knows the answers but does not use what he knows to apply it to the test, then it is a waste of time and makes no difference if he/she didn't study in the first place.

Trust me when I say that if the student "knows the answers" he/she will WANT to apply it to the test. I mean, who really wants an F on their tests? But the problem is that there seem to be MORE THAN ONE ANSWER to the question and people will disagree on what the correct answer is, which leads to confusion and discord... Confusion and discord is what religion brings.

[CrimsonArchangel]

My point is, I do not like a God who rewards the bad while punishing the good and virtuous for simply not believing. According to such system, murders will enjoy eternal life, while charitable, good-hearted, and loving people will suffer Hell. Nothing could EVER make sense from that.

hmmm... I sort of understand where you're coming from. Before hand, let me clarify that I in no way mean to offend anyone, so sorry if I do.

What I want to know is, how would someone expect to be rewarded by something or someone he/she does not believe in? I mean... yes, God rewards the bad, but that is because they believe in him and truly want to repent. How can something that is "not there" reward you?

Dunno if this will make sense, but here it goes. (Again, before hand, "you" is generalizing, I'm not targeting anyone in specific).
Lets say you have a job. You do everything well, you are loved by everyone and everyone loves you. You have a boss, but you do not believe he/she is there because you have never seen or heard him/her. If you don't even believe he/she exists, why would you expect a paycheck?
And lets say that there is someone who does everything wrong and is hated by everyone. Then, there is one day that that person realizes he/she has been doing wrong and believes that there is a boss they can go to to ask for a second chance. Yes, they have not seen or heard him/her either, but they have seen what the boss does. They go and ask for a second chance, truly believing that the boss will give them the chance. They believe the boss is there, so they recieve the second chance.

Hmmm.... that sort of made sense to me... hope it made sense to you guys out there.

[Spirited Away]

Why would God pick only specific people, believers over non-believers, to reward if He truly loves everyone then?

[eggnite]

heaven and hell are less real to me then never never land. and if their were a heaven and hell, everyone would go to hell. theres no way you can't sin. no possible way.

Your right. there is no way any of us cant sin. However, Jesus never sinned. he needed to live a sinnless life so that when he died on the cross for us we could be forgiven. If you confess to God that you are a sinner and want to be forgiven and truley believe in what your asking than you will be forgiven. Weve all sinned, but its those of us who have recieved God's forgiveness that have clean slates. I dont want to sound arrogant, but i believe i will go to heaven when i die. Not because i havent sinned. but because ive repented my sins and have been forgiven of them.

there are lots of places you can find out more. here is one site that i encourage you to read if you dont believe you will go to heaven.

[C.Lime.Jello.]

Lol.
Serizawa = Heaven
Makai = Hell
Where We Go = Reikai (Spirit Realm)

^_^u

Someone is going to ask where in the effing hell I came up with that....
But I won't tell them!!!