Proof, Please read the book first Options

[ppl_love_me]

You must look at, if not read, the book called "Evolution of the Creationist" to realy argue.

The man that wrote the book was an evolutionist, untill a scholar in the colledge he was teaching at asked him to look at the topic of creation. And the research he did (originaly to prove evolution) actually only gave more evedence of creation, and he found much more!

I think the school systems are actually affending religions. In the book He points out that being an evolutionist is haveing a religion, so they are teaching blasfamy. (can't spell sry)

Also, I think scientist can only prove god exsists or he doesn't. And alot of science is ageinst the laws of god and many other religions. like the genetic experimentation on making clones, it is like trying to be god, and prove that humans can function with out him.

If you dissagree with creation. then thorouly explain to me how the parent cell came to being? and How would an animal like the Incubator Bird (look it up ppl!) evolve? and tell me some documented FACTS that has been found.

just try...

[ComradeRed]

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=...solator+Bird%22

No standard web pages containing all your search terms were found.

Your search - "Insolator Bird" - did not match any documents.

Suggestions:

- Make sure all words are spelled correctly.
- Try different keywords.
- Try more general keywords.

Science CANNOT prove whether God exists or not. For science to be able to prove something requires that you set up an experiment. How do you set up an experiment to prove that God exists?

However, creationism is a moronic idea. If creationism existed, that means that humans would be perfect (created in God's image, and God, of course, is perfect). This is clearly not true -- humans possess many different things that we never use, such as an appendix, tailbone, etc, that are all vestigal carryover structures from previous evolution. Thus, if you are arguing for creation, you are acutally arguing that God is imperfect, which I think is heresy according to almost all Christian faiths.

[Devastation]

reading some excerpts of the book, and it seems some facts need to be reread, as well as the opinions and conclusions.

[ppl_love_me]

I'm sorry, I spelled the name wrong. It is an "incubator bird"

Now, no we can not experiment to prove gods existance. BUT, you can't prove Evolution either! It has NEVER been proved. Nor are we calling God imperfact, he made us in his "image" not clone gods, that would be a mess! Then we would rebel ageinst him and become our own gods. Also the Devil makes us imperfact to.

As for the book. The man, as I said, was a very strong evolutionist. If he convinced himself, then don't you think it would only take the greatest amount of facts and evidence. So you will need to read more then that. It even has evedence from history.

As for our apendix, does evolution tell you how we obtained it?

Also, what about the concept of the universe, how did non-living cells create a living cell? And if a giraffe came from horses, then it would not exsist, because of its complex blood system. If it you look up how a giraffe gets blood to its head. you'll see. IT WOULD DIE! dead things CAN'T Evolve!

[ComradeRed]

Of course you can't prove evolution, but you can prove it beyond reasoned doubt.

The appendix was previously used as water storage in primitive mammals, which lived far inland away from amphibian and reptile-dominated coastal climates. This is no longer a problem for us today.

Non-living cells can create living cells. They've made prokaryotic bacteria from base compounds in labs already.

I didn't really understand your last paragraph, but evolution works by certain mutations. We call those mutations cancer. MOST mutants die, but a very small amount do survive and thus trigger speciation.

Giraffes didn't come from horses, they both probably shared a common ancestor previously.

Regarding perfection, even if God made us in his image, why would he give us things like a tailbone or appendix that have absolutely no use? Or are you implying that the devil had a hand in making us? The devil is portrayed as having a horned tail, so I guess you could say that's where our tailbone comes from.

[Spirited Away]

Now, no we can not experiment to prove gods existance. BUT, you can't prove Evolution either! It has NEVER been proved. Nor are we calling God imperfact, he made us in his "image" not clone gods, that would be a mess! Then we would rebel ageinst him and become our own gods. Also the Devil makes us imperfact to.

So, what's your point? You seem to agree that Creation is as much 'proven' or 'unproven' as Evolution.

As for the book. The man, as I said, was a very strong evolutionist. If he convinced himself, then don't you think it would only take the greatest amount of facts and evidence. So you will need to read more then that. It even has evedence from history.

You're focusing on the fact that one Evolutionist convinced himself of Creation, well, you're only presenting one side of the argument, chum, because there are quite a few Christians who believe in Evolution...

Read here if you're able, and it might present to you the other story from a Christian's perspective (especially the very last paragraph).

As for our apendix, does evolution tell you how we obtained it?

Monsieur ComradeRed did a wonderful job on answering you, though, I think the answer itself would've been quite obvious if you've taken a course or two in Biology...

[raw_material]

proof!!
read the bible thats proof!
Genesis 1:21.....so GOD created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves,of every kind with which the water swarm, and every winged bird of every kind. and GOD saw that it was good...
22...God blessed them saying "be fruithfull and multiplyand fill the waters in the seas, and let brids multiply on the earth"

genesis 27:1....So God created humankind in his image...in the image of god he created them male and female he created them
plz no hating lol

[gerundio]

proof!!
read the bible thats proof!
Genesis 1:21.....so GOD created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves,of every kind with which the water swarm, and every winged bird of every kind. and GOD saw that it was good...
22...God blessed them saying "be fruithfull and multiplyand fill the waters in the seas, and let brids multiply on the earth"

genesis 27:1....So God created humankind in his image...in the image of god he created them male and female he created them
plz no hating lol

[raw_material]

ha!! i had a fealing that u where the one that was gonna answer back lol thank u 4 not hating lol

[Spirited Away]

proof!!
read the bible thats proof!
Genesis 1:21.....so GOD created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves,of every kind with which the water swarm, and every winged bird of every kind. and GOD saw that it was good...
22...God blessed them saying "be fruithfull and multiplyand fill the waters in the seas, and let brids multiply on the earth"

genesis 27:1....So God created humankind in his image...in the image of god he created them male and female he created them
plz no hating lol

Read some biology books... that's considered proof, too. Universal proof, actually.

[Devastation]

scientific reasoning seriously needs to be double checked in the "spirited ones"

[Spirited Away]

scientific reasoning seriously needs to be double checked in the "spirited ones"

Huh?

I would've responded with something more substantial if I had a clue about what you've just said.

[ppl_love_me]

The guy IS a christian. and yes I know there many Christian that belive in evolution. But think about this. If god created us to beleive in him with our faith. Then wouldn't he want to give us a challenge? Why would he simply hand us the information, then there would be no reason to live. we live to discover the faith inside us.

so your saying that humans came from bacteria, which has completely different function then we do. and that we all came from animals. If that is so, then wouldn't we have a bit more "animal instinct" I have not gone threw Biology yet. So I am unaware of what the Molocule to Man thing says, but if we came from primapes, then why are there still primapes?

I know that evolution says that our cultures are evolving too, but infact, they are devolving, I won't layout the full chart, but If we started out with simple languages, than how come we have languages that are mor advanced than most of todays?

I am not trying to argue, for you info, I simply want to know why many people belive in Evolution. including Christians.

[Spirited Away]

I am not trying to argue, for you info, I simply want to know why many people belive in Evolution. including Christians.

Firstly, you're in the wrong forum if you're not here to argue.

The guy IS a christian. and yes I know there many Christian that belive in evolution. But think about this. If god created us to beleive in him with our faith. Then wouldn't he want to give us a challenge? Why would he simply hand us the information, then there would be no reason to live. we live to discover the faith inside us.

Secondly, please refrain from making the comment that there is no reason to live without God, because that is plenty ingorance in one simple sentence. Before the rise of Christianity, people can still live and prosper in happiness.

Was he Christian before being an evolutionist? If so, then what was your point? That this man proved evolution wrong?

so your saying that humans came from bacteria, which has completely different function then we do. and that we all came from animals. If that is so, then wouldn't we have a bit more "animal instinct" I have not gone threw Biology yet. So I am unaware of what the Molocule to Man thing says, but if we came from primapes, then why are there still primapes?

Hmm, ComradeRed will have to answer this for you when he is around since I lack the ability to speak coherently when it comes down to science. If he will not, then I will endeavor to do the deed.

I know that evolution says that our cultures are evolving too, but infact, they are devolving, I won't layout the full chart, but If we started out with simple languages, than how come we have languages that are mor advanced than most of todays?

Please "layout the full chart" for me as I'm having problem understanding this idea.

[ppl_love_me]

Secondly, please refrain from making the comment that there is no reason to live without God, because that is plenty ingorance in one simple sentence. Before the rise of Christianity, people can still live and prosper in happiness.

I never said that! What I ment was there is no reason to live without a challenge. Its a theoretical thing, suppose you were a god, would you want people to worship you because you exist, or because you are great enuf for us them to just have the faith that you are there. Think about it, if the whole world was christianity then it would be too easy and we would be weak. Like a Freshman, the devil would comtrol us in a matter of seconds.

Scientists want to prove humanity can live and prosper w/o god.

Christianity didn't Come on till the "death of christ" Christianity CAME frome Jewish religion. And religion, and the thought of a higher power, has been around for as long as we have, not just christians but others too. To prove Christianity is correct is a whole nother ball game.

Firstly, you're in the wrong forum if you're not here to argue.

I meant I don't want to start a full out fight. I don't want to turn out enemys.

Was he Christian before being an evolutionist? If so, then what was your point? That this man proved evolution wrong? 

No

Please "layout the full chart" for me as I'm having problem understanding this idea.

Well, its like where man started out with simple grunts then formed words, on to fragments, and then to sentences.

[sikdragon]

cloning isnt like trying to be God, it is still just like everything else, taking what is already there and modifying it. Only God can make something from nothing.

[raw_material]

"If god created us to beleive in him with our faith. Then wouldn't he want to give us a challenge? Why would he simply hand us the information, then there would be no reason to live. we live to discover the faith inside us."

there is a challenge...thats 2 promote gods word and his love...u might not see it like that cuz u actually dont believe was god states in the bible...but we do bcuz we kno wat our purpose in this earth is...2 make non believers into believers...thats a freaking challenge bcuz alot go againts wat we say....but it might not be a challenge bcuz he hands us the information so easy bcuz he loves us...i guess you would have 2 be in our shoes...

[Spirited Away]

I never said that! What I ment was there is no reason to live without a challenge. Its a theoretical thing, suppose you were a god, would you want people to worship you because you exist, or because you are great enuf for us them to just have the faith that you are there. Think about it, if the whole world was christianity then it would be too easy and we would be weak. Like a Freshman, the devil would comtrol us in a matter of seconds.

Then explain this, please:

Then wouldn't he want to give us a challenge? Why would he simply hand us the information, then there would be no reason to live.

That alone is a comment worth fighting with if you were speaking to a Deist for they believe that to further complicate God's existence with the Bible is just none sense. There are plenty of challenges in life that have NOTHING to do with religion, or do you not have to face them? IF God is loving, would he care if we worhip Him? However, your version of God seems to like being worshipped... what do YOU think about someone who likes to be worshipped?

No, YOU think about this, if the whole world followed the Christian faith, then no one would have to go to Hell, according to you. Relating this all back to your original story, if someone were Christian, he/she wouldn't have to go to Hell. Therefore, it is safe to assume that God INTENDED for many of His creations to go to Hell because of this "challenge". If He loves ALL of us, then He would GIVE PROOF that cannot be doubted or questioned so that we can all believe and go to Heaven.

Why do you say that we would be weak if we were all Christians? Do you think that as a Christian, you are weak? I don't think so. When I was a Freshman, I was optimistic and had a lot more courage to tackle things than when I was a Junior... so I don't quite understand what you mean by "weak".

Scientists want to prove humanity can live and prosper w/o god.

And can't we? Of course the answer would be a obvious coming from a Christian, but according to Atheists, there is no God, and we're doing just fine.

Christianity didn't Come on till the "death of christ" Christianity CAME frome Jewish religion. And religion, and the thought of a higher power, has been around for as long as we have, not just christians but others too. To prove Christianity is correct is a whole nother ball game.

I do not recall saying anything remotely close to what you've responded with... All I said is that there were people who lived quite contently without religion, without knowing God, or without the Christian's God.

I meant I don't want to start a full out fight. I don't want to turn out enemys.

There will always someone in the world who do not like you for some reason: how you walk, what you believe in, how you talk, your political ideals... etc, so don't worry about it too much. If you do not want to argue about this whole thing, then why did you post? God's existence/ Jesus's trials/Christianity/Atheism/Religion/etc, will always be controversial, so always be prepared face the other perspective.

No

To which question?

Well, its like where man started out with simple grunts then formed words, on to fragments, and then to sentences.

And that's "devolving" HOW?

[ppl_love_me]

No, YOU think about this, if the whole world followed the Christian faith, then no one would have to go to Hell, according to you. Relating this all back to your original story, if someone were Christian, he/she wouldn't have to go to Hell. Therefore, it is safe to assume that God INTENDED for many of His creations to go to Hell because of this "challenge". If He loves ALL of us, then He would GIVE PROOF that cannot be doubted or questioned so that we can all believe and go to Heaven.

All will go to Heaven! Your sins have been forgiven! That was the whole reason for Jesus. John 3:16 "For god so loved the world that he gave his onlybeggotten son, so that whomever beliveth in him, shall have eternal life." After jesus all go to heaven, but don't have eternal life. God also has never flooded the earth after Noah.

atleast that is what i belive it means.

That alone is a comment worth fighting with if you were speaking to a Deist for they believe that to further complicate God's existence with the Bible is just none sense. There are plenty of challenges in life that have NOTHING to do with religion, or do you not have to face them? IF God is loving, would he care if we worhip Him? However, your version of God seems to like being worshipped... what do YOU think about someone who likes to be worshipped?

ok worship might have taken it a bit harshly, more like LOVED.

there is a challenge...thats 2 promote gods word and his love...u might not see it like that cuz u actually dont believe was god states in the bible...but we do bcuz we kno wat our purpose in this earth is...2 make non believers into believers...thats a freaking challenge bcuz alot go againts wat we say....but it might not be a challenge bcuz he hands us the information so easy bcuz he loves us...i guess you would have 2 be in our shoes... 

ok, r u saying I'm not christian or are you talking about "us" as in evolutionists.

[Spirited Away]

All will go to Heaven! Your sins have been forgiven! That was the whole reason for Jesus. John 3:16 "For god so loved the world that he gave his onlybeggotten son, so that whomever beliveth in him, shall have eternal life." After jesus all go to heaven, but don't have eternal life. God also has never flooded the earth after Noah.

atleast that is what i belive it means.

Ah, you mustn't forget to include the limiting factor in your sentence, so the sentence should read: "All will go to Heaven, if he/she believes in Jesus Christ as the Son of God who died on the cross for our sins".

Meaning, Heaven is granted to ONLY those who follow the faith, while the rest, no matter how good or virtuous, must go to Hell because of their disbelief.

ok worship might have taken it a bit harshly, more like LOVED.

Love isn't easily granted and, logically, one doesn't love something that he/she doesn't believe in. Surely, if God's existence and the trials of Jesus is proven without any doubt to be questioned, then everyone will love God. Because God is almighty, I don't think that's too much to ask for... which confuses the heck out of me.

ok, r u saying I'm not christian or are you talking about "us" as in evolutionists.

I think the comment was meant for me, but I will wait for him/her to confirm before replying.

[ReBeL_BlOoD]

As far as the bible goes, guess what the number one selling book, in any country, of all time is... Yup, the bible. (Its also the one book that is most often shoplifted, but thats irrelevant)

*God comes down to a scientist on the beach*
"God, your miracles are such miracles anymore"
"Why do you say that sir?"
"We have developed a formula to make a human out of dirt!"
"Really, go ahead"
*Scientist bends down to grab a handfull of dirt when God speaks*
"Oh no you dont. You have to use your OWN dirt!"

Think about it.....

[Spirited Away]

*God comes down to a scientist on the beach*
"God, your miracles are such miracles anymore"
"Why do you say that sir?"
"We have developed a formula to make a human out of dirt!"
"Really, go ahead"
*Scientist bends down to grab a handfull of dirt when God speaks*
"Oh no you dont. You have to use your OWN dirt!"

Think about it.....

Since when can we make humans out of dirt? I thought we can make humans from our OWN cells.

[raw_material]

"God also has never flooded the earth after Noah."
there was a reason why god flooded the earth back then if u would kno u wouldt ask that dumb question! im sure if he has 2 punish us 2day he wont flood the earth again.

"Since when can we make humans out of dirt? I thought we can make humans from our OWN cells. "
if your god im pretty sure u can make something out of nothing...thats wat we all are dirt bags...why we dont deserve everything god has given us in this world...we are just a bunch of sinners who could care less on wat god tells us...yet he loves us..

[Spirited Away]

"Since when can we make humans out of dirt?   I thought we can make humans from our OWN cells. "
if your god im pretty sure u can make something out of nothing...thats wat we all are dirt bags...why we dont deserve everything god has given us in this world...we are just a bunch of sinners who could care less on wat god tells us...yet he loves us..

What the heezee?? Since when do I have a "god"? I would like you to respect my belief, as well as others (even if I don't call Him "God", I refer to Him as the Creator), to capitalize deities from other religions. It's kind of rude not to... and that's the only reason why I capitalize "God" when I refer to the Christian God, to be respectful. And my perception of the Creator is NO WHERE NEAR how Christians perceive God.

If you want to believe that we're all dirtbags, that's fine with me, but I would like to faith in the human heart. Though we're "sinners", it is perfectly human to be imperfect as it is HUMAN to make mistakes and fall into temptation... but that's why we are here to help each other out...

It's not really nice to know that you think so lowly of humans ...

Me: Hey! Lets be friends!
You: We're all dirtbags, and undeserving of everything God has given us in this world
Me: >> >> >> >> >> If we're undeserving then lets all DIE.

[queen]

But think about this. If god created us to beleive in him with our faith. Then wouldn't he want to give us a challenge? Why would he simply hand us the information, then there would be no reason to live. we live to discover the faith inside us.

we live to discover the faith inside us?

...why don't we all just quit our jobs, drop out of school, and praise god night and day. throw away all our good clothing, 'cause there's no reason to get dressed up for parties or hangouts. destroy all our cars 'cause we don't need to go places. all we need to do all day is go to church and pray ;x