god, part 2 Options

[Mini]

That makes perfect sense. I do question that too, if the non-believers didn't believe in God, it was their own free-will, why would God condemn them forever in Hell if God gave us our gift of free-will, of being human?

[Spirited Away]

"The belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the deepest root of all evil that is in the world." - Max Born

[princess2113]

"The belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the deepest root of all evil that is in the world." - Max Born

oook...hum i would say that is wrong...the One is Peace

No Jesus, No Peace
Know Jesus, Know Peace

[gerundio]

If you've read previous posts, there were a couple who tried to forced it by threatening with Hell.

no such thing as hell... no need to worry. but u prob already kno that.

[Spirited Away]

oook...hum i would say that is wrong..

Of course you would say as much because you only believe in one truth... But according to the quote, such a thing is the root of all evil, and of course, what you've said spoke for itself.

no such thing as hell... no need to worry.  but u prob already kno that.

Knowing it doesn't exist and being scared of the concept are two different things, I fear. My classic example is likening Hell to monsters under the bed; children know there aren't monsters but they'd still get scared... *sigh*


And just a generic question here: has anyone read "The Anti-Christ" by world renowned philosopher, Friedrich Nietzche? Or better yet, has anyone (in both religious and non-religious world) ever heard of him?

[princess2113]

this is stupid to debate...debates are focused on one's opinion....it is very simple here...there is ONE FACT...you may choose to try to disprove the fact, and constently try to make it seem foolish, but in reality your fear of Truth does not change the Truth. you have free will to believe...the FACT will be shown on the day Jesus comes to this Earth...its your choice to believe, but just b/c you don't, doesn't make it any less real

[CrimsonArchangel]

And just a generic question here: has anyone read "The Anti-Christ" by world renowned philosopher, Friedrich Nietzche? Or better yet, has anyone (in both religious and non-religious world) ever heard of him?

I have heard of the guy, but I haven't read the book.
What's it about?

[Spirited Away]

this is stupid to debate...debates are focused on one's opinion....it is very simple here...there is ONE FACT...you may choose to try to disprove the fact, and constently try to make it seem foolish, but in reality your fear of Truth does not change the Truth. you have free will to believe...the FACT will be shown on the day Jesus comes to this Earth...its your choice to believe, but just b/c you don't, doesn't make it any less real

Surrrrrrrre, call it "fact", call it "divine truth", call it whatever you want, but different people will believe differently and you can never take that right away from any human being. Thus, I shall call it "opinion". Thank you very much.

What's foolish (and childish), is your insistence on non-believers' supposed foolishness while their beliefs have existed since the rise of Man, in my humble opinion. Christianity is a teenager religion compared to those that preceeds it.

What's even more foolish and childish, is to live with only one "truth" and hanging on to such belief for dear life. Oh, wait I forget, in the words of Nietzsche, "Christianity teaches people how to die, but not how to live", therefore, you might not even understand what I mean by "to live with only one 'truth'".

Ah, before anyone get upset at me, know that I'm only quoting from one of the greatest philosophers in history....

I have heard of the guy, but I haven't read the book.
What's it about?

It's about.... well, his life's philosophy about Christianity (which leads to morality). Now this book alone doesn't explain his great dislike for Christianity, but only to sum up his thoughts about it. I believe "Geneology of Morals" goes into more scholarly insight on why he feels that way. I haven't finished "The Anti-Christ" yet, because... it's kind of hard to understand such intellectual words, but I am trying. Though, I do not agree with many things he said because they seem almost too radical.




HOWEVER, to look at this whole debate from a Christian's point of view, I name to you another great writer by the name of Leo Tolstoy (author of "War and Peace")... and this is what a Christian happen to think about how Christianity should be practiced:

"Everybody thinks of changing humanity and nobody thinks of changing himself."
--Leo Tolstoy

Those who have been saying that others are "WRONG", "FOOLISH" are just so judgemental and do not even think about the most basic teaching of Christanity, and that is to NOT judge. Man, even I know that.

Okay, NOW flame me all you people want, I'm going to work.

[CrimsonArchangel]

there is ONE FACT...

*NOT* true. In any possible way.
Like Fae says, people have the right to believe what they choose to. And there are plenty of truths. Some make more sense than others, some sound more... logical, and some are just plain... weird, but there is not only one truth.

HOWEVER, to look at this whole debate from a Christian's point of view, I name to you another great writer by the name of Leo Tolstoy (author of "War and Peace")... and this is what a Christian happen to think about how Christianity should be practiced:

"Everybody thinks of changing humanity and nobody thinks of changing himself."
--Leo Tolstoy

That quote is *so* true. Could have not agreed more. That is a problem with many christians. "Oh, God is good, accept him or you will go to hell and burn for eternity". That's a lie and a very selfish statement.

People, change yourselves before you try to change the world. Its the easy way to go.

[Spirited Away]

That quote is *so* true. Could have not agreed more.   That is a problem with many christians. "Oh, God is good, accept him or you will go to hell and burn for eternity". That's a lie and a very selfish statement.

People, change yourselves before you try to change the world. Its the easy way to go.

And that's why he is one of a few Christians that I happen to respect.

[CrimsonArchangel]

Those who have been saying that others are "WRONG", "FOOLISH" are just so judgemental and do not even think about the most basic teaching of Christanity, and that is to NOT judge.  Man, even I know that.

Fae, we see eye to eye even when we don't, haha. (Did that make sense? )

Then there is someone else (won't say names, but maybe you guys will figure out who it is) that advocates the killing of Palestinians and then is one *sexist* person, yet that person claims to be christian. Talk about contradictions...

[IIO__oII]

right.. :]
do you know some churches split because of the stupidest reasons? like the color of the carpet...
why do they even separate the people if each of us is part of the "body of Christ?" *sigh*
people DO need to change. :[

[princess2113]

Surrrrrrrre, call it "fact", call it "divine truth", call it whatever you want, but different people will believe differently and you can never take that right away from any human being. Thus, I shall call it "opinion". Thank you very much.

What's foolish (and childish), is your insistence on non-believers' supposed foolishness while their beliefs have existed since the rise of Man, in my humble opinion. Christianity is a teenager religion compared to those that preceeds it.

What's even more foolish and childish, is to live with only one "truth" and hanging on to such belief for dear life. Oh, wait I forget, in the words of Nietzsche, "Christianity teaches people how to die, but not how to live", therefore, you might not even understand what I mean by "to live with only one 'truth'".

Ah, before anyone get upset at me, know that I'm only quoting from one of the greatest philosophers in history....


It's about.... well, his life's philosophy about Christianity (which leads to morality). Now this book alone doesn't explain his great dislike for Christianity, but only to sum up his thoughts about it. I believe "Geneology of Morals" goes into more scholarly insight on why he feels that way. I haven't finished "The Anti-Christ" yet, because... it's kind of hard to understand such intellectual words, but I am trying. Though, I do not agree with many things he said because they seem almost too radical.




HOWEVER, to look at this whole debate from a Christian's point of view, I name to you another great writer by the name of Leo Tolstoy (author of "War and Peace")... and this is what a Christian happen to think about how Christianity should be practiced:

"Everybody thinks of changing humanity and nobody thinks of changing himself."
--Leo Tolstoy

Those who have been saying that others are "WRONG", "FOOLISH" are just so judgemental and do not even think about the most basic teaching of Christanity, and that is to NOT judge. Man, even I know that.

Okay, NOW flame me all you people want, I'm going to work.

first of all...Christianity DOES teach how to live...HELLLLLOOOOO the Bible....DUHHHER

and as i said before....i dunt give a crap what u call it b/c the fact is what i say is right...yeah i know ur gonna say its wrong...we'll just have to wait and see...i know whats gonna happen and perhaps you should grip the Truth b/c u never know when Jesus is gonna come

[Spirited Away]

first of all...Christianity DOES teach how to live...HELLLLLOOOOO the Bible....DUHHHER

This is what I mean when I said that you probably don't even understand because of the level of intellect that is used, though I thought it was very apparrant. I guess, you just need some more English classes....

The Bible teaches you how to live so that you will DIE and be with God. What Nietzche means, most likely, is that the Bible readies one to live so that he can be in the presence of God when he dies... HOWEVER that is not the true meaning of life because to those who live for more than "being in God's presence", there are more to life than just reading from a book.

and as i said before....i dunt give a crap what u call it b/c the fact is what i say is right...yeah i know ur gonna say its wrong...we'll just have to wait and see...i know whats gonna happen and perhaps you should grip the Truth b/c u never know when Jesus is gonna come

And that's why I do not, cannot, respect you as a Christian because I don't think TRUE Christianity teaches you to be so hostile. But you're right, there's only one way to find out, and we'll just see... AHAHA that's just fine with me

That's why so many intellectuals choose Deism or Agnosticism, and even Atheism, over Christianity. They believe/disbelieve in the Creator, because they cannot stand the crap that some self-righteous Christians keep on spouting out. It's senseless.

Fae, we see eye to eye even when we don't, haha. (Did that make sense?  )

Yea, that made sense... hahahaha... kind of ironic even.

[raw_material]

This is what I mean when I said that you probably don't even understand because of the level of intellect that is used, though I thought it was very apparrant. I guess, you just need some more English classes....

The Bible teaches you how to live so that you will DIE and be with God. What Nietzche means, most likely, is that the Bible readies one to live so that he can be in the presence of God when he dies... HOWEVER that is not the true meaning of life because to those who live for more than "being in God's presence", there are more to life than just reading from a book.



And that's why I do not, cannot, respect you as a Christian because I don't think TRUE Christianity teaches you to be so hostile. But you're right, there's only one way to find out, and we'll just see... AHAHA that's just fine with me

That's why so many intellectuals choose Deism or Agnosticism, and even Atheism, over Christianity. They believe/disbelieve in the Creator, because they cannot stand the crap that some self-righteous Christians keep on spouting out. It's senseless.



Yea, that made sense... hahahaha... kind of ironic even.

"The Bible teaches you how to live so that you will DIE and be with God. What Nietzche means, most likely, is that the Bible readies one to live so that he can be in the presence of God when he dies... HOWEVER that is not the true meaning of life because to those who live for more than "being in God's presence", there are more to life than just reading from a book. "

i didnt kno all the bible did was teach you 2 live so that you will die and be with god...last time i checked the bible tells u more than that ....so wat is the true meaning of life? dont judge a book by its cover homie

[Spirited Away]

i didnt kno all the bible did was teach you 2 live so that you will die and be with god...last time i checked the bible tells u more than that  ....so wat is the true meaning of life? dont judge a book by its cover homie 

So then tell me, what is there more to it?

Lets see, the Ten Commandments tells you... what? Ten things NOT to do, WHY? Because they are sinful. Well, why do you not want to sin? Because God despises sins. Therefore, if you sin, you're not a very good Christian because God doesn't want you to sin... WHY doesn't God want you to sin? Because He wants you to be with Him when you die.... THEREFORE, the Bible teaches you HOW TO DIE.

You see where I'm going with this? But if you have any questions, go ahead and read Nietzsche, it's his idea after all.

Moi? Judge a book by its cover? Hardly.

[gerundio]

Lets see, the Ten Commandments tells you... what? Ten things NOT to do, WHY? Because they are sinful. Well, why do you not want to sin? Because God despises sins. Therefore, if you sin, you're not a very good Christian because God doesn't want you to sin... WHY doesn't God want you to sin? Because He wants you to be with Him when you die.... THEREFORE, the Bible teaches you HOW TO DIE.

i so far agreed with almost everything you have said, but i am sorry this is wrong. true christianity does not focus on the ten commandments. jesus once said that the thousands of jewish rules were ridiculous, you only need to know two commandments:

love God above all else and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

would any christian like to tell me i'm wrong because if am wrong in quoting the gospels please tell me.

focusing on how to die is a corruption of christianity. jesus was first a teacher, i don't care what anybody else says, and the things he taught (even if they were fabricated by later followers doesn't matter) are the true way to live life. if you don't want to believe in jesus' divinity (which i do) that's fine, i have no problems with you. but his teachings do agree with the teachings of many other religions.

but this is not the jesus thread so i won't say anything else.

[Spirited Away]

i so far agreed with almost everything you have said, but i am sorry this is wrong. true christianity does not focus on the ten commandments. jesus once said that the thousands of jewish rules were ridiculous, you only need to know two commandments:

love God above all else and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

would any christian like to tell me i'm wrong because if am wrong in quoting the gospels please tell me.

focusing on how to die is a corruption of christianity. jesus was first a teacher, i don't care what anybody else says, and the things he taught (even if they were fabricated by later followers doesn't matter) are the true way to live life. if you don't want to believe in jesus' divinity (which i do) that's fine, i have no problems with you. but his teachings do agree with the teachings of many other religions.

but this is not the jesus thread so i won't say anything else.

Of course, this is NOT a personal attack on God, because if you've been around this forum, you'd know that I believe in the Creator myself... just not in the popular Christian's version of how God loves. I say "popular" because different Christians believe slightly different versions... and popular refers to the majority. I don't come across a Christian like, lets say Angel, who would even recognize the existence of other religion everyday. It's very disconcerting...

But like I said, Nietzsche just points out something quite obvious, but I rather see it as "popular" Christianity interpreting the Bible as something that threatens non-believers....... etc.

[gerundio]

Of course, this is NOT a personal attack on God, because if you've been around this forum, you'd know that I believe in the Creator myself... just not in the popular Christian's version of how God loves. I say "popular" because different Christians believe slightly different versions... and popular refers to the majority. I don't come across a Christian like, lets say Angel, who would even recognize the existence of other religion everyday. It's very disconcerting...

But like I said, Nietzsche just points out something quite obvious, but I rather see it as "popular" Christianity interpreting the Bible as something that threatens non-believers....... etc.

true.

[princess2113]

This is what I mean when I said that you probably don't even understand because of the level of intellect that is used, though I thought it was very apparrant. I guess, you just need some more English classes....

The Bible teaches you how to live so that you will DIE and be with God. What Nietzche means, most likely, is that the Bible readies one to live so that he can be in the presence of God when he dies... HOWEVER that is not the true meaning of life because to those who live for more than "being in God's presence", there are more to life than just reading from a book.



And that's why I do not, cannot, respect you as a Christian because I don't think TRUE Christianity teaches you to be so hostile. But you're right, there's only one way to find out, and we'll just see... AHAHA that's just fine with me

That's why so many intellectuals choose Deism or Agnosticism, and even Atheism, over Christianity. They believe/disbelieve in the Creator, because they cannot stand the crap that some self-righteous Christians keep on spouting out. It's senseless.



Yea, that made sense... hahahaha... kind of ironic even.

ok call me hostile...call me all the names you want...i'll be entering Pearly Gates and Gold Streets... and no, the Bible doesn't just teach u how to die...it teaches how to help each other, use God's gifts that He has given you, etc...NONE of which you must do to go to Heaven...therefor, if you dont do them, u still go to Heaven...so it doesn't teach u HOW to be with God when u die...b/c if it was the Bible would be a lot shorter...it would say..."Belive Jesus is the Son of God, came from Heaven to Earth as a man to die for you b/c He loves you, love Him in return" ooo wow i wonder what the other thousands of pages say...and yes, being Christian is more than reading the Bible, its living it out...you don't have to read the Bible...back to a much earlier argument in here....

senseless? lmao ok we'll see what you think on Judgement Day...ur gonna feel pretty stupid...


btw, i don't need a vocabulary lesson i take college level English...if i dunno something i'll look it up...don't worry yourself abt teaching, you have too much to learn for yourself

[CrimsonArchangel]

Lets see, the Ten Commandments tells you... what? Ten things NOT to do, WHY? Because they are sinful. Well, why do you not want to sin? Because God despises sins. Therefore, if you sin, you're not a very good Christian because God doesn't want you to sin... WHY doesn't God want you to sin? Because He wants you to be with Him when you die.... THEREFORE, the Bible teaches you HOW TO DIE.

Well, yes, the Ten Commandments are things that Christians should not do because they are sinful, but there are some that appeal to every human's morals. I mean, christian or not, "Do not kill" should apply to everyone. Everyone should respect everyone else's right to life. Also "Do not covet", or "Do not commit adultery", those are things that even none christians can live with (I guess...) just for the sake of morals.

i'll be entering Pearly Gates and Gold Streets

Are you sure? That right there was a very selfish statement if you ask me....

[loopylandscapes4...]

that's like asking a cowboy's fan who's gunna win the superbowl. quoting the bible to defend god. don't make sense. convincing somone with what they believe is a lie already. good job.

ok so like whatever you guys say, people who believe in god really can't convince people who DON'T believe in god, take virgin mary I mean if your actually a virgin you could not have a baby but she does, so yea.. any ways whatever you guys say you can never convince someone like me, even my friends try, and when people say things like well when you die where are you going to go, and they're like well your going to the under world because to don't believe in god, well if you don't believe in god then you wouldn't believe in going to the underworld so yeah... and do you actually KNOW anyone who has like died and then was like alive again and told you that there WAS and underworld or heaven that they went to, I don't think so, but you people who believe in god you just keep on doing that cause people will believe what they like but "god bless america" yea they need to get rid of that..

yeah that's all I have to say for now

[loopylandscapes4...]

senseless? lmao ok we'll see what you think on Judgement Day...ur gonna feel pretty stupid...

ok so if you talking about judgement day well that could be a long ways from now and we'd be died now wouldnt' we, and what about the dinosaurs you really think they believed in god oh and by the way um.. they became extincted yea so like is going to something like explode so that would be like the end of earth so yeah your saying that god is the one you does that, well um.. for your information stars like exploding is a scientific fact, yea so it's going to happen

[IIO__oII]

ok so like whatever you guys say, people who believe in god really can't convince people who DON'T believe in god, take virgin mary I mean if your actually a virgin you could not have a baby but she does, so yea.. any ways whatever you guys say you can never convince someone like me, even my friends try, and when people say things like well when you die where are you going to go, and they're like well your going to the under world because to don't believe in god, well if you don't believe in god then you wouldn't believe in going to the underworld so yeah... and do you actually KNOW anyone who has like died and then was like alive again and told you that there WAS and underworld or heaven that they went to, I don't think so, but you people who believe in god you just keep on doing that cause people will believe what they like but "god bless america" yea they need to get rid of that..

yeah that's all I have to say for now

a lot of "like" in this post. if you took em out, MAYBE i'd understand what youre saying.

and.

people who believe in god really can't convince people who DON'T believe in god

well, i guess you cant really convince people who DO belive in God. [what we've been saying in here, right guys? ] this debate forum isnt a place where your life dramatically gets changed. just posting our opinions here, ok?

I don't think so, but you people who believe in god you just keep on doing that cause people will believe what they like but "god bless america" yea they need to get rid of that..

heyhey- what happened to the freedom of religion and speech here in america? i really dont cared what you belive. -_- say "i bless america" for all i care.

when people say things like well when you die where are you going to go, and they're like well your going to the under world because to don't believe in god, well if you don't believe in god then you wouldn't believe in going to the underworld

the underworld? what religion do your FRIENDS believe? haha

[princess2113]

Are you sure? That right there was a very selfish statement if you ask me....  

how is that selfish...it states quite clearly in the Bible that believers will enter Pearly Gates, Walk streets of gold, and there will be seas made of crystal

ok so if you talking about judgement day well that could be a long ways from now and we'd be died now wouldnt' we, and what about the dinosaurs you really think they believed in god oh and by the way um.. they became extincted yea so like is going to something like explode so that would be like the end of earth so yeah your saying that god is the one you does that, well um.. for your information stars like exploding is a scientific fact, yea so it's going to
happen

you didn't sound very smart....you, nor i, nor anyone but God knows when the end of time is....it could be it 5 sec, or 2 minutes, or billions of years from now...we never know...so we must alwayz be prepared