Is the Confederate Flag Racist? Options

[onenonly101]

Many people have different views on this. Some say no because the flag is their heritage and many say yes because of what it represents now i nthe present. So the question is If the Confederate Flag Racist.

This was started on another forum and this is what i had to say (keep in mind some people were replying back so, sorry if i repeated my self in any sentences, also it was also starting to talk about the war)

My opinion on the confederate flag is all over the place actually. i think that it the ways it is used can be racist. it started off as a symbol of pride and finished off as a symbol of haterd. many people have twisted the flag and its view to make it as a symbol of haterd not only against blacks, but jews, hispanics, catholics, and anyone who was not like them. Personally i do not think that there should have been a confederate flag in the first place because as the so called United States we shouldn't have ever divided ourselves.

Ok when i say it has turned out to now be a symbol of racism i mean that when the flag first came about it was all about southern pride and heritage and what not. but after the civil war when the KKK was created they used the flag as a symbol of haterd of minorities and when in the 50s when all the hate groups were becoming even more fired up against blacks they waved around that flag at all their meetings when they were saying i hate blacks, jews, and everybody who isn't me. some people now still see it as only a symbol of heritage, but you have to put yourself in a minorties body and see what we see when every time you see the flag it is always associated with somethingd bad as racism, what more can you think.

I don't think anyone said the war was just about slavery. It was about states rights and slavery because the question of states rights arose because of slavery. The thing is now the flag is associated with all the hate groups. They don't have the right to use it but it doesn't change the fact that they do use it. When everything is all done and said with all people will remember is that neo-nazi, kkk, and other hate groups used that flag.
I say i don't like to see the flag because all i see is hate.

I haven't been taught to only see hate. I actually used to believe that is wasn't racist, when everyone said it was. The thing is that when i started researching things like the Civil war and other things I realized the intentions of it weren't meant to be racist but it is now and there is nothing to change that.

Ya'll keep saying it wasn't over slavery. The reason the states succeeded to union wqas because of slavery. The issue of states right to govern and allow to have slaves is what caused the split. If there wasn't the issue of slavery i can bet there wouldn't have been a civil war.
How can a flag hold your heritage. There is no more Confederacy so you there shouldn't be the Confederate flag. How can you love a flag that represents separation?.
Like i said before you have to look from the other point of view. I've been on both sides and everytime i see that flag it is behind someone saying they agree with separation. take how you wanna, but in my eyes it is racist,

I never said the north was dead set against slavery or that northern states didn't have slaves so i don't know how that got into the agrument. Also they returned the slaves bcak because there was rewards, everybody is money hungry AND laws. Also those states that had slave in the north went with the succession with the south so then they were apart of the confederacy.
Poor people did have slaves. Most of the southerners yeah weren't rich enough to buy many slaves, but that doesn't mean that they didn't have slaves. Almost one-third of all Southern families owned slaves. In Mississippi and South Carolina it approached one half. Also the states who were near the north weren't considered nothern states they were ocnsidered borderline states. And they did not suceede to the Confederacy.
I shouldn't have said if i did, slavery was the only reason. The slavery issue however was the largest issue and the one of most concern. Other factors like politcally stemmed from slavery because before they made the 3/4 compromise, people in the North said if they are just property then they shouldn't be counted toward the voting rep in Congress, but the Southerns disagreed because the more people the more reps you could have. That was one of the issues that started the Civil War.The South also suceeded because they though Lincolin was going to free slaves even though he never advocated abolishing slavery.
But back to the flag

I meant to ask ya'll before what Confederate do you love or whatever. Because for example Georgia's flag up until 2001 was not the original Confederate flag it was a Confederate flag put up to protest the Supreme court's decision on Brown vs. Board of Education.
The flag is a representation of slavery because there wasn't a confederate flag until the succession. What i don't understand is how you say you have an alliegence to a flag of a nonexistent place. There is no more Union or Confederacy it is simply the United States of America. Yeah the Confederacy consisted of southern states but doesn't mean that it should represent the states or what not.

finished sorry it was alot

[EmeraldKnight]

The discrimination part is more of an opinion of mine.

Yes, exactly.. its your opinion.. I dont suppose you have evidence for it, do you?

But I think the flag now represents racism. When the flag first came about no it didn't like you said, but now it does also represent racism, because of what happened mostly in the 50s.

What happened in the 50s? I'm not up to date on US history I'm afraid.. that's next year

[ComradeRed]

Ok the dicussion kinda differ from racism into slavery what thunder said really has nothing to do with it being racist. Just because 15% didn't own slaves doesn't mean they weren't racist

Uh... try more like 95% didn't own slaves.

[EmeraldKnight]

Uh... try more like 95% didn't own slaves.

Ok, if you present a statistic, might you add where the statistic is found? (although 95% seems a lot more reasonable than 15%)

[ComradeRed]

Ok, if you present a statistic, might you add where the statistic is found? (although 95% seems a lot more reasonable than 15%)

My history book puts it at 5/6 -- that's about 83%. And even then, most of those people are people who own only one or two slaves, and work in the fields alongside their slaves. Only about 1,500 families in 1860 owned more than 200 slaves (a large plantation).

[EmeraldKnight]

My history book puts it at 5/6 -- that's about 83%. And even then, most of those people are people who own only one or two slaves, and work in the fields alongside their slaves. Only about 1,500 families in 1860 owned more than 200 slaves (a large plantation).

Exactly, I think that point has been said over and over again.. but no one seems to be seeing it...

[ComradeRed]

What point? I just brought up some stats.

[EmeraldKnight]

What point? I just brought up some stats. 

The point that the majority of Southerners didnt own slaves

[saintsaens]

That is a racist view in itself.

You are absolutely wrong. It must take someone who lives in the south to understand this. It doesn't represent the hatred that of course we allll have for black people, because you know, we're southern, so we must be a bunch of racists, right? (That was sarcasm)
No, it's about our heritage, it's about where we came from. If it's a symbol of hatred to you, then tough.

It's rediculous these days what people try to say is racist. It's freakin retarded and I, personally, am sick and tired of someone screaming "racist" over the stupidest crap.

And your reply was the stupidest shit too. That flag represents the old southern way of life, AKA, slavery.

[EmeraldKnight]

And your reply was the stupidest shit too. That flag represents the old southern way of life, AKA, slavery.

Please be nice, not like your reply was any better..

Southern way of life? What the hell are you talking about? Did you read the above statistics at all? THe vast majority of white southerners DID NOT own slaves, so how the hell is slavery the southern way of life?

[ComradeRed]

The Southern Way of Life is about a lot more than slavery. If you read the Confederate Constitution, I guarantee that you will find yourself saying, "Wow, except for the slavery part, this is so much better than our Constitution." Without fail, this happens.

[angel-roh]

wait so u guys are saying that if i put my korean flag next to my house...thats called racism?

[Spirited Away]

wait so u guys are saying that if i put my korean flag next to my house...thats called racism?

Erm, do Koreans have a history of racism like the US in its early years?

If not, then I don't think your example is very sound.

[EmeraldKnight]

wait so u guys are saying that if i put my korean flag next to my house...thats called racism?

It would depend.. it may be viewed that way by some, but for most people, probably not

[onenonly101]

wait so u guys are saying that if i put my korean flag next to my house...thats called racism?

no, because um Koreans weren't lynched and beaten and so on because they were Korean. And when someone hangs a confederate flag in there house yeah everyone does assume they are racist.

[ComradeRed]

no, because um Koreans weren't lynched and beaten and so on because they were Korean. And when someone hangs a confederate flag in there house yeah everyone does assume they are racist.

Really? I wouldn't assume they're racist.

Chinese people were lynched and beaten by the Japanese for a long while, so does that mean that by having a Japanese flag you support lynching Chinese people?

[onenonly101]

No because the Confederate flag is not the U.S. flag and in the South many blacks were lynched with the Confederate flag flying right by their body

[ComradeRed]

And many Chinese were killed with Japanese flags flying over their body... your point?

[onenonly101]

My point was that hanging the American flag on your house is much different than hanging a Confederate flag on your house. Because the Confederate flag represents racism to many.

[ComradeRed]

And the Japanese Flag might represent racism to many too...

Since when are people's free speech rights compromisable because some other people might be "offended".

I will proudly fly the Confederate Flag next Indepedence Day -- along with the Ross Flag -- to remind people how far we've gone from our original ideals as a nation.

The Confederate Constitution has six major changes from the US Constitution. One of them is slavery. The other five are all things that we should do TODAY -- things that are more in line with what Jefferson had in mind.

5/6 of the Confederate Flag represents freedom and liberty, and only 1/6 represents racism and slavery.

[Spirited Away]

5/6 of the Confederate Flag represents freedom and liberty, and only 1/6 represents racism and slavery.

That is the case for many people, however, to many others the opposite is true (5/6 racism, 1/6 freedom and liberty).

[ComradeRed]

The six major changes in the CSA Constitution are:

- Slavery
- Purposes of Congressional spending limited --> MUCH less corruption in the CSA Congress than the USA Congress
- Abolishing riders on bills --> We DESPERATELY need this
- Supermajority to approve spending --> We desperately need this too
- Line-item veto (I oppose this BTW)
- One-Term Limit for President

Five of the six changes have nothing to do with race... hence only 1/6 racism.

There are five slavery-related articles in the CSA Constitution. Of these, THREE DIRECTLY ATTACK THE INSTITUTION OF SLAVERY (by prohibiting the importation of new slaves, by restricting slavery in the territories, etc), one is neutral in content, and one protects the property rights of slaveholders.

In other words, even if the South DID win the Civil War, the institution of slavery itself was to meet a somewhat slower, but inevitable economic demise. At the same time, we would all enjoy liberties to a much greater extent than we do now.

If I had a time machine to go back to the Civil War, and knowing the unconstitutional future of America with a Union victory, I would unquestionably have supported the Confederacy. If the CSA Constitution were in force today, we would have a balanced budget, no horrendous abuse of civil liberties like patriot, no FDR-style mini-dictatorships, much lower taxes, less spending, and less war.

Now I know that was really controversial, but onenonlyone... I'm sure you support NOT being bigoted... so I think that to be fair, everyone should actually read the Confederate Constitution before passing judgment on what side was actually right in the Civil War. Remember that before Lincoln brought slavery to the forefront in 1863, the entire world looked at the North as a tyrannical power, and the South as an oppressed minority seeking only to be left alone.

[EmeraldKnight]

That is the case for many people, however, to many others the opposite is true (5/6 racism, 1/6 freedom and liberty).

Exactly..

*Sigh* I think this is a useless topic.. because there realli is no changing longstanding views.. no matter what the Confederate Flag may have been intended to represent, racist actions in the last century have forever marred it..

Minda, I value all your facts and stuff, but the truth is.. people dont care for obscurities like that, no matter if the Supreme Court rules it as not being racist, people are going to view it and possibly use it as such..

Racism is in the mind, not in some piece of cloth; the racist feelings are projected onto the flag..

Blah.. that somewhat made sense.. I think...

[Spirited Away]

Blah.. that somewhat made sense.. I think...

Very much so.

If some law declares that the Confederate flag does not represent racism, there will still be people who think that the law is biased and discriminatory.

ComradeRed, those are genuinely interesting facts. I learned a lot from them.

[onenonly101]

Since when are people's free speech rights compromisable because some other people might be "offended".

Since the FCC was made

[T00000]

if the person who displays the flag is doing it with racist intentions, it is racist. period. therefore the argument about what the south stood for our whatever does not matter much.