Desecrating the Flag Options

[*Kathleen*]

Hrm...I don't think there's been a topic on this, but...what do you think? Do you think it's okay? Or should it be illegal? I personally think it should be illegal. I mean, I know that this country is about free speech and whatnot, but by desecrating our flag, it's saying you don't accept our laws and whatnot; therefore, shouldn't that be illegal? Hmm what do you guys think?

[*Kathleen*]

n i think one is burn it

Yes, but that's why I used the certain word, "desecrate" instead of "burn".

[EmeraldKnight]

Oh umm...sure...check article five under section two.  Haha.

You're not serious about that, are you?

yeah thats what i was saying...what i learned in school..like 3rd grade...is if ur flag get swet (like rain) out or respect ur supposed to do certain things, n i think one is burn it

Hm.. for some reason, i never learned anything about that kind of stuff..

[ComradeRed]

Yes, but my point is...should you be able to use symbolic speech if you don't embrace it? These people that do it desecrate the flag simply because they don't like what it stands for. What it stands for is free speech itself...then are you still allowed to destroy it like that?

The flag doesn't stand for free speech. It stands for courage, valor, and one other thing.

Kathleen, Section 2 of the Constitution only had four articles... Nice try, though.

It's better for people to burn the flag and wrap themselves in the Constitution, than vice versa. Patriotism is not loyalty to your country no matter what... I don't think anyone can fault Thomas Jefferson's patriotism, but remember that he purposely subverted the laws of the United States through teh Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions, as well as burned the Federalist Papers... But in the end, it was recognized that the laws were unjust to begin with.

Burning the flag is basically saying "I disagree with something the United States did." You can say "There shouldn't be free speech" -- and you would still be exersizing your right to free speech.

Free speech is free (even political advertisment speech that costs $2 million for a 30 second spot) no matter what you believe -- it's not JUST the freedom to agree with the authorities on every issue.

[Spirited Away]

I agree that it should be illegal, but that doesn't mean that it will stop people from doing it.

When you bring that out to court, flag desecrater vs government, the flag desecreter will have a higher chance of winning the case. Why? Our justice system will favor those who cries out with the first amendment... not really... I mean to say that most likely the Supreme Court will exercise their right to "Checks and Balances".

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." The First Amendment is the opening declaration of this nation's precious Bill of Rights and secures our grandest liberties: the freedom of speech, religion and the press; the right to assemble and to petition the government. Of these liberties, freedom of speech is the greatest testament to our nation's triumph as a democracy: we may not like what you say, but we will defend to death your right to say it. As Captain Jean-Luc Picard, of Star Trek, said: "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all, irrevocably."

Then again, I've heard that the Supreme Court itself wanted to propose an admenment to illegalize physical desecration of the flag, but it didn't get Senate's approval.

No, I don't know what I'm talking about.

This post has been edited by uninspiredfae: Jul 3 2004, 10:42 PM

[ComradeRed]

The Supreme Court can't pass bills, dude... It could only rule on Congress's bills

[Spirited Away]

The Supreme Court can't pass bills, dude... It could only rule on Congress's bills

That's what I probably meant!

EDIT>> I will fix my post now.. please re-read.. thanks

[kyuubi319]

i dont think so. i mean, its symbolic, it kinda stands for our country [duh]. so what kinda loyalty lies with a person that desecrates a flag? actually.. that just sorta proves what 'wonderful' people they are. they might as well say: hey, i left my war ravaged country to come to a place where im free to do anything i want and im not prosecuting for speaking my mind. but since im such a butt-muncher, i think i'll show some gratitude by burning our country's flag!
...

[redsoxbaby87]

well...it cant really be illegal. but i think that it is wrong...

[ryfitaDF]

i saw a scolded, burnt miniature flag in a beer bottle once. it was the most beautiful thing i've ever seen.

anyways, YEA! if i wanna burn a flag i should be able to! what's the point of living in in the land of the free if you don't take advantage of your freedom?

[redsoxbaby87]

i saw a scolded, burnt miniature flag in a beer bottle once. it was the most beautiful thing i've ever seen.

anyways, YEA! if i wanna burn a flag i should be able to! what's the point of living in in the land of the free if you don't take advantage of your freedom?

EXACTLY!

[Spirited Away]

i saw a scolded, burnt miniature flag in a beer bottle once. it was the most beautiful thing i've ever seen.

anyways, YEA! if i wanna burn a flag i should be able to! what's the point of living in in the land of the free if you don't take advantage of your freedom?

What was your intention when you burn a flag?

I mean, you enjoy freedom so much and that flag is supposed to represent such freedom, then why would you want to burn something that's symbolic of what you enjoy?

[ryfitaDF]

i honor ideas, not symbols. ideas are sacred, symbols are optional.

also, when people burn the flag they don't see it as burning freedom. they see it as burning the government: lies, money, curruprion, etc. that's what it symbolises to them (and i somtimes)

i've never actually burnt a flag. the only time i would burn a flag would be if it were in spite of some redneck bigot theying to tell me i'm a disgrace to the country cause i do or don't do somthing.

[Spirited Away]

i honor ideas, not symbols. ideas are sacred, symbols are optional.

Then this depends on point of view.

Some symbols are sacred. Symbols stand for ideas/ideals when it is believed as such.

also, when people burn the flag they don't see it as burning freedom. they see it as burning the government: lies, money, curruprion, etc. that's what it symbolises to them (and i somtimes)

If they want to burn the government, metaphorically speaking, that must mean that they see a problem with it... Why don't they try to change it instead of burning something, that's obviously worth nothing to them?

I mean, why is it such an honor to have others salute the flag of the winning country after someone won first place of a sport in the Olympics? Are they saluting the government of that country? I should hope not.

I've never actually burnt a flag. the only time i would burn a flag would be if it were in spite of some redneck bigot theying to tell me i'm a disgrace to the country cause i do or don't do somthing.

Instead of burning the flag, which proves nothing but my rebelliousness, I would just burn that person's house down..... JOKE JOKE... but I would do something to prove them wrong instead of further prove them right by burning something symbolic of the country.

[ryfitaDF]

If they want to burn the government, metaphorically speaking, that must mean that they see a problem with it... Why don't they try to change it instead of burning something, that's obviously worth nothing to them?

I mean, why is it such an honor to have others salute the flag of the winning country after someone won first place of a sport in the Olympics? Are they saluting the government of that country? I should hope not.

have you known anarchists to make any sense ever? i know if you wanna change the government you have a better chance inside of it. like in SLC punk.

Instead of burning the flag, which proves nothing but my rebelliousness, I would just burn that person's house down..... JOKE JOKE... but I would do something to prove them wrong instead of further prove them right by burning something symbolic of the country.

i try to do that. i've never been really as childish as to, say, burn a flag or cross or bible over a simple disagreement. i do talk things out. the only tiem i would set fire to somthing would be if i were acting out of rage. that only happens after a while, though. alot of flag burners just do it automaticly.

[Spirited Away]

have you known anarchists to make any sense ever? i know if you wanna change the government you have a better chance inside of it. like in SLC punk.

That's why they're not in favor with people. If they would try to make sense of the situation, instead of making it worse, then they'd be more popular.

i try to do that. i've never been really as childish as to, say, burn a flag or cross or bible over a simple disagreement. i do talk things out. the only tiem i would set fire to somthing would be if i were acting out of rage. that only happens after a while, though. alot of flag burners just do it automaticly.

That's good for you!

I see why people would burn the flag though, perhaps it doesn't stand for freedom any more in their eyes. However, they should still respect others who do revere the flag; it's common sense.

[ryfitaDF]

I see why people would burn the flag though, perhaps it doesn't stand for freedom any more in their eyes. However, they should still respect others who do revere the flag; it's common sense.

but it's also human nature to strike back. if somone feels disrespected they're going to show disrespect to that person. ya know?

[Spirited Away]

but it's also human nature to strike back. if somone feels disrespected they're going to show disrespect to that person. ya know?

Sure, but they should find ways to show their disrespect for the government, not disrespect the symbol of freedom that others believe in.

[iheartsimba]

although i don't know what "descrating" means
i think it probably means to damage or something.

And I think that if it's like big huge flagpoles out in the street it should be illegal...but like it its your flag...you know i think we should have that freedom there

[aud_chua]

silly supreme court.. i think that they should have made it illegal.. even treason maybe! but then.. yea.. with the first amendment, it's protected.. oh well...
i just think it's crazy cuz if a person said that this is the land of the free with the amendments and all, and they start burning the flag of the US, doesn't that mean that they don't like the laws made? then that means they don't want the freedom.. iono if this makes sense but something along those lines.. hahah..! i really am bad at writing out my thoughts..
well. that's my 2 cents.. or maybe just a penny... lolz..!