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Desecrating the Flag
*Kathleen*
post Jul 2 2004, 01:25 PM
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Hrm...I don't think there's been a topic on this, but...what do you think? Do you think it's okay? Or should it be illegal? I personally think it should be illegal. I mean, I know that this country is about free speech and whatnot, but by desecrating our flag, it's saying you don't accept our laws and whatnot; therefore, shouldn't that be illegal? Hmm what do you guys think?
 
*kryogenix*
post Jul 2 2004, 02:16 PM
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gotta love vague references
 
ComradeRed
post Jul 2 2004, 03:01 PM
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Supreme Court already ruled that it is protected speech.

If I own something, I should be allowed to burn it... whatever it is.
 
*Kathleen*
post Jul 2 2004, 03:39 PM
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Bleh well, do you think it should be?
 
Justingamemaster
post Jul 2 2004, 03:41 PM
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QUOTE(kryogenix @ Jul 2 2004, 2:16 PM)


gotta love vague references

hey i watched that damned video! it rocks!


anyway desecrating the flag is like desecrating a piece of paper. itts just an image of our country, nothing more, nothing less to me! biggrin.gif
 
princess2113
post Jul 2 2004, 05:06 PM
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i dunno, i mean its just material...if the persons intentions are to represent the country with the flag, then yes i think it shuld be illegal...but we dunt really know what they are thinking...they culd do it out of anger for sumething completly differant...and i thought it was illegal to do certain things with the flag?
 
ComradeRed
post Jul 2 2004, 05:28 PM
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QUOTE(Kathleen @ Jul 2 2004, 3:39 PM)
Bleh well, do you think it should be?

Yes... If I own something, I have the inalienable declaratory right to burn it.
 
DisneyPrincessKa...
post Jul 2 2004, 05:30 PM
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It depends. Are you burning it because you hate this country or has it been ripped? When a flag is worn out, ripped, or in just bad condition there's a ceremonial way to burn it, which is the way you're supposed to get rid of the flag. That way is perfectly fine. But if you hate this country so much that you want to burn the symbol of freedom why are you still here?

I think it's wrong, but since when has making something illegal stopped people from doing it?
 
ComradeRed
post Jul 2 2004, 05:31 PM
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Because if you aren't free to dispose of your own property as you so choose, then you aren't very free and the symbol is meaningless, isn't it?

I'd rather people wrap themselves in the Constitution and burn the flag, than wrap themselves in the flag and burn the Constitution. Freedom > Symbolism.
 
princess2113
post Jul 2 2004, 06:11 PM
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QUOTE(ComradeRed @ Jul 2 2004, 5:28 PM)
Yes... If I own something, I have the inalienable declaratory right to burn it.

if the flag gets wet, arent u SUPPOSED to burn it out of respect?
 
JlIaTMK
post Jul 2 2004, 06:34 PM
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if i own it i can burn it.... whats up with this country.... u cant own anything.... u dont even own ur own house.... u have to pay bills for it....
 
ComradeRed
post Jul 2 2004, 11:26 PM
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... I own the laptop I am typing on. I have the right to throw it out the window.

If you finish the payments on your house, you own your house. Not everyone pays "bills" on their house. The bills they do pay are for things like electricity and water, not the house itself, which they do, in fact, own.
 
EmeraldKnight
post Jul 3 2004, 12:15 AM
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QUOTE
... I own the laptop I am typing on. I have the right to throw it out the window.

If you finish the payments on your house, you own your house. Not everyone pays "bills" on their house. The bills they do pay are for things like electricity and water, not the house itself, which they do, in fact, own.

But those are different.. the flag represents something.. and some people, though perhaps not you, view the flag as a representation of our country.. and by burning the flag, its as if you're burning the representation, our country..
 
*Kathleen*
post Jul 3 2004, 01:43 AM
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Heh I don't think many of you know what "desecrating means". It means this:
QUOTE
To violate the sacredness of; profane.

Got it? wink.gif
 
EmeraldKnight
post Jul 3 2004, 01:52 AM
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QUOTE
Heh I don't think many of you know what "desecrating means". It means this:

QUOTE 
To violate the sacredness of; profane.


Got it? 

Oh.. haha I just followed everyone else tongue.gif

Oh well, I'm on your side anyways laugh.gif
 
girlnpink_x
post Jul 3 2004, 01:54 AM
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i also think its wrong... but it is protected under the freedom of speech.. its like symbolic speech or w/e
 
*Kathleen*
post Jul 3 2004, 02:03 AM
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Yes, but my point is...should you be able to use symbolic speech if you don't embrace it? These people that do it desecrate the flag simply because they don't like what it stands for. What it stands for is free speech itself...then are you still allowed to destroy it like that?
 
EmeraldKnight
post Jul 3 2004, 02:12 AM
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QUOTE
Yes, but my point is...should you be able to use symbolic speech if you don't embrace it? These people that do it desecrate the flag simply because they don't like what it stands for. What it stands for is free speech itself...then are you still allowed to destroy it like that? 

Erm... I'm kinda lost.. free speech is onli part of what it stands for.. and well i do find it paradoxically ironic that the flag symbolizes freedom yet burning the flag would be exercising your right to freedom.. like Minda said, freedom to burn your own property.. wow this is a confusing topic pinch.gif
 
*Kathleen*
post Jul 3 2004, 02:15 AM
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Yes, but...if you don't believe in free speech, how can you exercise it?
 
girlnpink_x
post Jul 3 2004, 02:17 AM
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ooohhh good point.. hmm.. i dont know about that one =/
 
EmeraldKnight
post Jul 3 2004, 02:21 AM
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QUOTE
Yes, but...if you don't believe in free speech, how can you exercise it?

That's why its a paradox.. because the flag stands for more than 1 thing.. and it varies from person to person

The people that desecrate the flag do so because they dont like the other things it stands for.. but yet doing so, they not onli exercise their right to free speech, but but the flag also stands for free speech.. gah.. its all so confusing.. thanks Kathleen.. I'll be trying to figure that one out for a while...
 
*Kathleen*
post Jul 3 2004, 02:26 AM
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So you're saying that it depends on what you're burning the flag for? Either way, I don't think it's right. I love how patriotic some of you people are...
 
EmeraldKnight
post Jul 3 2004, 02:32 AM
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QUOTE
So you're saying that it depends on what you're burning the flag for? Either way, I don't think it's right.

What it comes down to is what you believe in.. what's "right" or "wrong" is entirely based on perspective.. for every person, the flag may stand for something different, one person may have no problem descrating something they dont believe in at all while another person would find that extremely offensive..

Just a question, does it legally say anywhere exactly what the flag stands for? If yes, then my whole argument dies.. (this is what you get for arguing something without much factual knowledge..) pinch.gif

QUOTE
I love how patriotic some of you people are...

I'm not saying I believe its right, I always end up arguing for the side I dont believe in, oddly enough laugh.gif
 
*Kathleen*
post Jul 3 2004, 03:18 AM
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QUOTE
What it comes down to is what you believe in.. what's "right" or "wrong" is entirely based on perspective.. for every person, the flag may stand for something different, one person may have no problem descrating something they dont believe in at all while another person would find that extremely offensive..

Meh, which is why I'm not going to get any supporters here in createblog. As I said, no one here seems too patriotic. _dry.gif I love the people that live in this country today. thumbsup.gif
QUOTE
Just a question, does it legally say anywhere exactly what the flag stands for? If yes, then my whole argument dies.. (this is what you get for arguing something without much factual knowledge..)

Oh umm...sure...check article five under section two. wink.gif Haha.
 
princess2113
post Jul 3 2004, 06:40 AM
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QUOTE(Kathleen @ Jul 3 2004, 2:26 AM)
So you're saying that it depends on what you're burning the flag for? Either way, I don't think it's right. I love how patriotic some of you people are...

yeah thats what i was saying...what i learned in school..like 3rd grade...is if ur flag get swet (like rain) out or respect ur supposed to do certain things, n i think one is burn it
 
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