Pledge of Allegiance, bye bye "Under God" Options

[ThunderEvermore]

but I'll be sticking with the old version because I choose to!

Technically the old version didnt have "under god" in it.

[F_L_I_P]

Iono its been there too long to take out. i mean im kinda used to it by now. and whenever i say the "pledge of allegiance" improbably gonna be blurting out "Under God"

[ur_my_sweety20]

im catholic..and proud of it...i think we should keep it how it is...its stood up for over 200 years so...keep it

[Spirited Away]

i think we should keep it how it is...its stood up for over 200 years so...keep it

I understand that you would want to keep it for religious sake, but to say "lets keep it" because it's been around for a long time is very problematic.

If tradition has it that a woman must eat dirt every time she leaves her home, and this tradition has been around for hundreds of years, would you really want to continue keeping it?

Or if slavery has been around since the dawn of man and it is a tradition, would you want to keep it?

But I do agree that there's really nothing wrong (unless one could convince me of otherwise) with keeping "under God" in the pledge.

[CrimsonArchangel]

im catholic..and proud of it...i think we should keep it how it is...its stood up for over 200 years so...keep it

The pledge of alliegance didn't always have " under God" in it. It was put like 20 or 30 years ago.

And I say keep it the way it is. People can choose to whether say the pledge or not. It's up to them. And this may sound wrong, and I'm sorry if it does, but the concerns of the few shouldn't affect the choices of others. Just because a couple of atheists don't like the phrase when most of the people are ok with it doesn't mean they have a right to try to change it.

[AZN_DRAGON]

it matters to ppl to take out under god bcuz theres ppl that dont worship him but it should jus stay...bcuz thats the original version they shuldnt take it out n give it credit to another person

[ThunderEvermore]

The bottom line is that everything the government does that involves religion must pass strict requirements. Quite franly I dont belive this does. It must be secular, and unless Im misinformed on the definition of secular I dont believe it is. Ask your Political Studies teachers.

[EmeraldKnight]

This is still around? wow..

The bottom line is that everything the government does that involves religion must pass strict requirements. Quite franly I dont belive this does. It must be secular, and unless Im misinformed on the definition of secular I dont believe it is. Ask your Political Studies teachers.

Strict requirements? And well, alright, by the separation of church and state, this does not belong.. but the thing is.. its been around for so long.. generation after generation.. I'm highly doubtful that parents.. citizens who've grown up with it.. would like to see it altered.. its fine the way it is.. because schools don't mandate that you recite it

[ThunderEvermore]

its been around for so long.. generation after generation.. I'm highly doubtful that parents.. citizens who've grown up with it.. would like to see it altered..

Generation after generation? Its been fifty years. Thats maybe two real generations if someone is born on that day.

Sure, people have grown up with it, but what about those who are inconvenienced by this? What of the people who dont say "Under God" and has it pointed out by their classmates, Christians and the like, and are made fun of, preached to, having their lives changed due to the simple fact that they dont believe in God, or believe in Allah, or follow Buddha, etc etc.

[ThunderEvermore]

Basically, its been changed once. And that time it was instilled for EVEN LONGER.

[ThunderEvermore]

I'm sorry, I do this way too fast.

Now, what of the writer of the pledge?

Francis Bellamy (1855 - 1931), a Baptist minister, wrote the original Pledge in August 1892. He was a Christian Socialist. In his Pledge, he is expressing the ideas of his first cousin, Edward Bellamy, author of the American socialist utopian novels, Looking Backward (1888) and Equality (1897).

His original Pledge read as follows: 'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and (to*) the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' He considered placing the word, 'equality,' in his Pledge, but knew that the state superintendents of education on his committee were against equality for women and African Americans. [ * 'to' added in October, 1892. ]

In 1923 and 1924 the National Flag Conference, under the 'leadership of the American Legion and the Daughters of the American Revolution, changed the Pledge's words, 'my Flag,' to 'the Flag of the United States of America.' Bellamy disliked this change, but his protest was ignored.
In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge. The Pledge was now both a patriotic oath and a public prayer. Bellamy's granddaughter said he also would have resented this second change. He had been pressured into leaving his church in 1891 because of his socialist sermons. In his retirement in Florida, he stopped attending church because he disliked the racial bigotry he found there.

The whole point of the pledge is to form a unity of those in this country. From different races, background, RELIGIONS, etc, they all fall under the term "American". The addition of "under God" just splits this unity in two. Whats the point of patriotism if it isnt going to apply to all?

HAHA. FOUND IT. Ahem...sorry. The Lemon Test. Those strict requirements I was talking about.

1) It must have a secular purpose.
2) Its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion.
3) It must not foster "an excessive government entanglement with religion."

You have to ask yourself if this passes the test.

[EmeraldKnight]

I'm sorry, I do this way too fast.

If you do it too fast, just go back and edit it.. please dont triple post..

1) It must have a secular purpose.
2) Its principal or primary effect must be one that neither advances nor inhibits religion.
3) It must not foster "an excessive government entanglement with religion."

Hm.. could you tell me where you found this?

And the flag does pass the so-called lemon test..

[muahmuah5]

hAvEnT pEoPlE fOrGoTtEn ThAt GoD cReAtEd ThE wOrLd?

they should stay with it

[Spirited Away]

hAvEnT pEoPlE fOrGoTtEn ThAt GoD cReAtEd ThE wOrLd?

they should stay with it

Um.. mAyBe ThErE ArE PeEpz WhO DoN't BeLiEvE iN GoD?

Let me share with you a little something: You're not the only person in existence in the good ole US of A.

There are different religions and beliefs OTHER THAN your own. It's not that people "forgot" that God created the world, but there are people DO NOT BELIEVE in God.

[ThunderEvermore]

If you do it too fast, just go back and edit it.. please dont triple post..

Sorry, Im not used to posting in forums where you can edit posts.

And I was speaking of "Under God" in the pledge, not the flag itself...

The Lemon Test

[xHalf nHalf]

it pisses me off because its not even the students that have a problem with it. this whole thing started because of atheist parents not wanting their children saying "under God". i mean, hello youre not in school anymore. their children have the right to believe and say whatever they want the majority of all students dont mind saying it or it being in the pledge. and most of the ones that dont want to say it dont even care cause theyre not forced to

[ThunderEvermore]

it pisses me off because its not even the students that have a problem with it. this whole thing started because of atheist parents not wanting their children saying "under God".

Uh...no.

Youre speaking of one case, IE the latest and most talked about case with Mike Newdow or whatever his name was.

There are more cases, Im sure, where its just as much the kids as it is the parents.

[xHalf nHalf]

There are more cases, Im sure, where its just as much the kids as it is the parents.

id sure like to learn more about a case where a student was bothered by it. and if it wasnt started from someone complaining, where did this whole thing come from?

[ThunderEvermore]

id sure like to learn more about a case where a student was bothered by it. and if it wasnt started from someone complaining, where did this whole thing come from?

1) When I said case I wasnt referring to legal cases.

2) I never said it wasnt from someone complaining. But change requires complaining.

[kyuubi319]

hell no.
1) why would it affect someone? wouldnt it affect the people who are christian, are comfortable saying God, and believe in it? are we gonna change it when we start getting madd too?
2) It's been there for years, just as something we practice, everytime we take away something from American History it's erased like it never existed. so piece by piece, like a little child with a jigsaw puzzle, the pieces are lost and never found.
3) remember a while ago when that guy complained that his daughter was uncomfortable saying the pledge of alliegance? well it just happened that he was athiest and didnt believe in God, so he decided to create a ruccus. his daughter even said she had no problems saying it.
4) a while ago a third grade girl was taken away from her lunch room for saying Grace before she ate. where is the justice in that. it made no one uncomfortabel, we're all just too damn uncomfortable to speak out. and it was unfair for that little girl just because she did somethings differently than others. not fair at all. why did they pander to everyone else in the lunchroom?
4) shut up, i dont know why i remember all this stuff

[rnrn897]

no they're not -- they're still negociating it
and since im a christian i obviously think it shouldnt be taken off..
and does it literally mean under GOD? or does it have symbolism?

[Spirited Away]

and does it literally mean under GOD? or does it have symbolism?

What kind of symbolism?