Muslim Vs. Christian debating Options

[illriginal]

Let's see some scripture.

Here's an example in conduct of war:

When it comes to the Islamic conduct of war, some of the verses of the Quran that have often been quoted by non-Muslims to "prove" Islam promotes violence and bloodshed are found in Surah 2 verses 190-194:

2.190. Fight against those who fight against you in the way of Allah, but do not transgress, for Allah does not love transgressors.

2.191. Kill them whenever you confront them and drive them out from where they drove you out. (For though killing is sinful) wrongful persecution is even worse than killing. Do not fight against them near the Holy Mosque unless they fight against you; but if they fight against you kill them, for that is the reward of such unbelievers.

2.192. Then if they desist, know well that Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Compassionate.

2.193. Keep on fighting against them until mischief ends and the way prescribed by Allah prevails. But if they desist, then know that hostility is only against the wrong-doers.

2.194. The sacred month for the sacred month; sanctities should be respected alike ( by all concerned). Thus, if someone has attacked you, attack him just as he attacked you, and fear Allah and remain conscious that Allah is with those who guard against violating the bounds set by Him.

There is a strong controversy about the relation between Islam and terrorism; some people say that terrorism has its roots in the Qur'an while others say that the Qur'an has nothing to do with terrorism. With this, the truth is lost between both exclusivists and apologists.

The root word "r h b" and its linguistic derivatives, which are the Arabic equivalents denoting a very literal translation to the words "terrorize" and "terrorism," have been mentioned seven times in the Qur'an.

Out of these seven occurrences, there is only one occurrence denoting the use of force.

God says in the Qur'an what means,

{Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies and others besides whom you may not know, but whom Allah does know. Whatever you shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and you shall not be treated unjustly.}(Al-Anfal 8:60)

Checking many of the classical and modern books of Qur'anic commentaries, you can easily find that none of the other six occurrences has any relation to the use of force or terrorizing innocents.

To the contrary, all of them refer to fearing God, supplicating to Him humbly while hoping His reward and fearing His punishment. The cited verse of Surat Al-Anfal calls upon Muslims to prepare different forms of deterrence in anticipation for those with whom they are at enmity, in case the enemy attacks all of a sudden.

The verse is cited in the context of Surat Al-Anfal, which began with reference to the first battle fought between Muslims and the polytheists of Makkah (i.e. the Battle of Badr) as if God is telling Muslims at that time to be ready for facing their enemies by preparing all the war logistics in case they are forced to confront the enemy.

According to commentators like late Sheikh Ash-Sha`rawi, the "preparation of force" referred to in the above verse doesn't mean that Muslims should adopt the wait-and-see approach to see how events will develop. Rather, they should be ready to face their enemies in case they are attacked.

Thus, the verse refers to the fact that Muslims' deterring force should be present both in war and peace times alike. In addition, being equipped with power and necessary war logistics doesn't necessarily mean using power aimlessly and haphazardly to terrorize the innocents.

This may explain why Prophet Muhammad advised his Companions on the night of the Battle of Badr saying, "Don't ever wish to meet the enemy, but if you are forced to do that, then be patient" (Al-Bukhari).

That saying of Prophet Muhammad indicates that facing the enemy should never be an aim in itself, but if Muslims are put in a situation where they have to fight those who transgress against them, they should endure with patience.

Therefore, the above verse reveals the following facts:

1. Muslims are faithful to their agreements at war times and peace times. This can be easily understood if we study some verses before and after this verse.
2. Islam orders Muslims to equip themselves with the necessary power to face their enemies in case they attack them.
3. There is a big difference between power preparation, which denotes self-equipment for possible future attacks, and the real application of power in a purely civil context, as power in this case will turn into uncivilized behavior causing harm for others, which is totally forbidden in Islam.
4. The verse urges Muslims to materially and psychologically demonstrate that they are not a weak force in order for their enemies to think twice before attacking them.
5. The verse is a call for what may be termed as "armed peace." Thus, it is an indirect call for peace because when Muslims are powerful, their enemies will decline from attacking them.
6. "Power" referred to in the above verse is a generic term denoting all kinds of materialistic, psychological, technological, etc., powers.
7. The verse aims at terrorizing the enemy and it doesn't mean terrorizing innocents in any way.

So it is clear that the quoted Qur'anic verse prohibits attacking civilians as they are not a targeted enemy. Even at war times, Islam prohibits fighting those who do not fight, let alone the non-combating women, children, old-aged, handicapped, and rabbis and saints in their places of worship.

There are two interchangeably used correlations in today's media: Muslim terrorists or Islamic terrorists, which indicates ignorance of the true teachings of Islam.

Islam is not the religion of terrorism. Rather, it is the religion of positive pacifism in the full sense of the word. It is a universal call for peace. It abhors and prohibits attacking others unjustifiably out of hate and revenge whether this is done by a Muslim or a non-Muslim.

God says in the Qur'an what means,

{And do not make mischief in the earth after its reformation, and call on Him fearing and hoping; surely the mercy of Allah is nigh to those who do good (to others).}(Al-A`raf 7:56)

Terrorism: Punishable Crime

The first community to expose and condemn terrorist attacks should be the Muslim community. This is simply because disseminating mischief in the land through terrorist acts is a strongly punishable crime in Islam.

God has referred to the punishment of those who commit these horrible crimes saying,

{The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement.}(Al-Ma'idah 5:33)

This is the punishment prescribed by Islam for those who destabilize the society and deny people their right to tranquillity. Right before this verse is another one that considers the killing of a single human being, regardless of race, faith, or geographical location as an annihilation to all members of the human family.

{Whosoever kills an innocent human being, it shall be as if one has killed all humankind, and whosoever saves the life of one, it shall be as if one has saved the life of all humankind.}(Al-Ma'idah 5:32)

[Reidar]

As transgressors? LOL C'mon Reidar, the Qur'an strictly forbids and condemns the killing of benevolence. Especially transgression and oppression.

"Soon shall we cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority."

Muslims take their religion a lot more serious than Christians of the West, who allow depictions of Jesus and mockeries of Jesus.

Free speech > fake gods.

Doing anything but coming to Salman Rushie's defense is shameful.

Nor did it say anything about attacking non-whites in general. Yet the KKK claimed to be Christians same with King James who committed and commanded atrocities.

Yup, which is why they aren't representative of Christians. Their incentives were not religiously-based. You're preaching to the choir if you're trying to say, "Well, look here, Christianity is just as bad." Christianity is abhorrent, just not in the correlation you're trying to attribute the KKK to. Of all the fantastically easy things to go after the Christian Bible for, you had to pick a false one.

Ok.. so you're just gonna keep using verses out of context like so many do and more than likely keep repeating them.

To remove an excerpt from its context is to remove the interrelated circumstances in which it exists under. If you feel that that is the case, point out in which manner the subject of the discourse was bypassed. As it stands, and as it will continue to, highlighting the specific part of dissent is not removing context because the context hasn't changed within the contention.

And for every 1 out of context violent verse, I can post 3 to combat it.

That's like me writing a 500-page book on home gardening, and then in the middle of page 162 I insert "DEATH TO ALL JEWS." It'd be folly to say, "For that one bad line, there were hundreds of pleasant pages to combat it." I need only one preaching of violence out of a thousand supposed peace proclamations for Islam to have any instance of positing violence. It only takes one line with true premises and a false conclusion to establish the invalidity of an invalid inference.

[illriginal]

"Soon shall we cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority."

oh lawd. Please find your way into, "Ask About Islam" thread in the bodybuilding forum, brah. Apparently you're not aware.

Free speech > God.

In your perspective.

Yup, which is why they aren't representative of Christians. Their incentives were not religiously-based.

Well then, I guess you never read the Holy Bible either... specifically the King James version. Who's preaching to the choir when you're not even understanding what I'm telling you. How is it religion's fault, God's fault, or the Holy Book's fault that people commit lewdness? For God sake, the Qur'an even has the Hadiths!!! Only an illiterate moron could ever misunderstand the Qur'an and try to commit lewdness thinking that's what God commanded.

To remove an excerpt from its context is to remove the interrelated circumstances in which it exists under. If you feel that that is the case, point out in which manner the subject of the discourse was bypassed. As it stands, and as it will continue to, highlighting the specific part of dissent is not removing context because the context hasn't changed within the contention.

Read the whole chapter or you'll never understand the verse. Simple as that.

I need only one preaching of violence out of a thousand supposed peace proclamations for Islam to have any instance of positing violence. It only takes one line with true premises and a false conclusion to establish the invalidity of an invalid inference.

Yes by someone who's literally demented and breaks the conduct of war set forth by God. If you can't understand the Qu'ran especially when it's the literal word of God.. then it's because it has been destined to be and nothing will ever change that.


One thing I've never understood about non-believers. You guys slam religion, God, and the Holy Books.. yet, you don't have an ounce of a clue as to wtf yall are talkin about. Instead you google up "religious evil texts" or some phrases like that and you start to quote exactly what you read.. it's quite amusing yet mind numbing.

[AngryBaby]

You're preaching to the choir if you're trying to say, "Well, look here, Christianity is just as bad."

exactly what i was thinking lol.

[saintsaens]

LMAO, I gotta' go to the body building forum to learn about Islam.

Jeez, of all places...

[illriginal]

LMAO, I gotta' go to the body building forum to learn about Islam.

Jeez, of all places...

No, not you. Reidar since he goes there as well. And what exactly do you mean by "of all places"? There's people there who are more than likely 50 times more intelligent than majority of the people in this forum... from religion, to science, to mathematics, to politics, health, food, fitness, the list goes on... my goodness the ignorance in this thread is thick enough to cut through with a steak knife.

[AngryBaby]

dat dere cell tech

[illriginal]

dat dere cell tech

lawl

Oh ya btw, you mentioned something about me taking hydroxy cut, I actually use ECY (Ephedrine, Caffeine, Yohimbine) and currently I'm using Animal Cuts stacked with it

[Reidar]

oh lawd. Please find your way into, "Ask About Islam" thread in the bodybuilding forum, brah. Apparently you're not aware.

Bodybuilding.com pretty much sucks. Most bodybuilding forums do. ABC is the same, even though their articles are good. T-Nation and EliteFTS are far better.

In your perspective.

Relativism is poison. If Yahweh and Allah and Zeus and Adranus the volcano god assert that their reign is more important than free speech, then it's a pity they don't exist to defy them.

Well then, I guess you never read the Holy Bible either... specifically the King James version. Who's preaching to the choir when you're not even understanding what I'm telling you. How is it religion's fault, God's fault, or the Holy Book's fault that people commit lewdness? For God sake, the Qur'an even has the Hadiths!!! Only an illiterate moron could ever misunderstand the Qur'an and try to commit lewdness thinking that's what God commanded.

It's both the Holy Book's fault when it tells followers to "cast terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority" and people's fault for being mindless enough to kill in fiction's name.

You have to be kidding to say that the tense of that mitigates the degree upon which it stands. That's exactly why it's grounded as a tenet, so of course it's "a verse of a past time". The entirety of scripture is "verse of a past time". The sura were revealed when Islam followers were establishing a state and needed legislation. This is the context that demands a scrupulous look, the portion that mandates what law really is.

One thing I've never understood about non-believers. You guys slam religion, God, and the Holy Books.. yet, you don't have an ounce of a clue as to wtf yall are talkin about. Instead you google up "religious evil texts" or some phrases like that and you start to quote exactly what you read.. it's quite amusing yet mind numbing.

I have an original source in Arab. Do you?

click to enlarge

[illriginal]

My head hurts... I'm gonna go to bed now.

[Reidar]

Also, Cell-Tech sucks. Sugared creatine lowers insulinotropic response. Yohimbine is bad for the opposite reason: increasing alpha receptor sensitivity, which pretty much contradicts any lipolytic effects that weight loss pills claim. The original Hydroxycut only worked because it had Ephedra in it before being banned; everything else in it was nigh useless.

[illriginal]

Also, Cell-Tech sucks. Sugared creatine lowers insulinotropic response.

lol Yes. Green Mag, Purple Wrath, and White Flood = Godly pumps

Im outs!

[AngryBaby]

Also, Cell-Tech sucks. Sugared creatine lowers insulinotropic response. Yohimbine is bad for the opposite reason: increasing alpha receptor sensitivity, which pretty much contradicts lipolytic effects that weight loss pills claim.

i know man, lol its a meme

[Reidar]

I know, and it's my meme to bash Cell-Tech.

[AngryBaby]

.....
















dat dere cell tech?

[illriginal]

I know, and it's my meme to bash Cell-Tech.

Oh you reminded me, this is my next cutting supp:

[Reidar]

UCP1 manipulation is still a premature subject for thermogenesis and other processes for fat catabolism. There's supposed regulation by purine nucleotides, which is established, and fatty acids, which is specious. It'd be better than Hydroxycut for the mere reason of not containing Guggulsterones and HCA, though.