ABORTION VERSION TWO Options

[Luna5]

No a woman should have the right to choose.

[Tweeti]

We were showing a discrepancy in your argument. Your argument for "right of life," in inclusive of non-human animals. In fact, from a scientific standpoint, some insects have more of the qualities you presented than some of the stages of a unborn child. So, even if you're trying to argue for a "human baby," you have to realize that your argument is widely inclusive (it extends outside of your mere intention). And, because of that discrepancy (and now obvious contradiction), your argument fails.

You can't have your cake and eat too.

whatever abortion is wrong.

[Comptine]

WOW that's great debating right there.

People poke holes in your argument and you respond with a whatever.

[datass]

whatever is a great word isn't it?

[IVIike]

No a woman should have the right to choose.

Not really if it's their fault it's their fault they have to take responsibility. If you steal something should you get to chose if you go to jail or not? No. there are consiquences for ones actions.

If you are out having unprotected sex and you don't want a child then you are just being stupid and irresponsible. Whatever comes along with it you have to accept that it's your fault.

[illriginal]

I would just drop the abortion debate, they don't care. Let them abort their children, hopefully their psychological becomes infested with demons as their punishment.

[Comptine]

^ It's still their choice. They are dealing with the consequences of their actions in the long run.

Sex is still so taboo in USA. Which adds to the problem of teenage pregnancies. Many states still haven't stepped up to the plate and say, "You want to have sex? Okay, do this! Use a condom! Get birth control! Be safe." because that's bad. Pre-martial sex is BAD. So we're not going to educate our kids. We're also going to make birth control harder to get for girls by making it expensive.

People complain about teenagers getting pregnant. Which they contribute to lack of sex-ed, so they complain about that.

What do they do? NOT correct the sex-ed curriculum. In fact, many high schools don't even HAVE sex-ed. They leave it to the parents to teach it (because that's what the parents want). And the parents teach like this, "NO SEX! BAD!"

[illriginal]

God has died in America... this is not a Christian nation and will never be a Christian country again. You can now have your cake and eat it.

[brooklyneast05]

good, it shouldn't be a christian country.


people should get to choose.

[illriginal]

good, it shouldn't be a christian country.

Yep.. good!

[Comptine]

^I'm confused... you're NOT for pro-choice right? I keep getting mixed signals from your posts.

Or are you just playing Devil's Advocate?

[illriginal]

I stopped caring. Truthfully. I had an epiphany a few nights ago as I laid down in bed, high as shit. I realized and said to myself, "who am I kidding? No one gives a shit about morals nor religion, they find morals and religion as a type of oppression. No human should feel oppressed. It is true... God is ultimately dead in majority of the people, may God have mercy on them."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Singer#...and_infanticide
There's your answers.

[datass]

strangely i agree with illmortal a bit.
anyways, getting pregnant IS NOT ALWAYS YOUR FAULT!! damn it.

[Melissa]

While I am not against abortion, I am against the idea of abortion being a fall-back plan for people to rectify their irresponsible actions. The only reason I am pro-choice is because there are times when you just can't control your circumstances. I know that your chances of getting pregnant when raped is slim, but there is still a chance. That, and not all rape is the violent, traumatizing kind.

Yeah, it's your body, it's your choice what you want to do with it. But you're also responsible for your actions; if you get drunk one night and have unprotected sex, you should be ready to face the consequences. Who cares if a fetus isn't a "feeling" human being? It is still a seed of life and it's not right that you can destroy it so easily just because you were stupid. I don't care if you're only in high school or only in college or at a point in your life when you can't really fit a baby in. You could have said "no," you could have used a condemn, or you could have decided to go on birth control before having sex. There are plenty of things you can do. But the second that you're pregnant, it's not all about you anymore. Abortion is a selfish choice.

But it's still a choice that you should be able to have (I mean, nobody gave your baby a choice, but it's not a "feeling, thinking" being, right? Whatever.)

[IVIike]

^--- Thats exactly how I feel.

[Comptine]

BUMP. I love updating with current events.

CNN.com

New rules proposed to protect anti-abortion doctors

The Bush administration proposed stronger job protections Thursday for doctors and other health care workers who refuse to participate in abortions because of religious or moral objections.

Health and Human Services Secretary Michael Leavitt said health care professionals should not face retaliation from employers or from medical societies because they object to abortion.

"Freedom of conscience is not to be surrendered upon issuance of a medical degree," Leavitt said. "This nation was built on a foundation of free speech. The first principle of free speech is protected conscience."

The rule, which applies to institutions receiving government money, would require as many as 584,000 employers ranging from major hospitals to doctors' offices and nursing homes to certify in writing that they are complying with several federal laws that protect the conscience rights of health care workers. Violations could lead to a loss of government funding and legal action to recoup federal money already paid.

Abortion-rights supporters served notice that they intend to challenge the new rule.

"Women's ability to manage their own health care is at risk of being compromised by politics and ideology," Cecile Richards, president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, said in a statement.

The group, which had complained that earlier drafts of the regulation contained vague language that might block access to birth control, said it still has concerns about the latest version.

"Planned Parenthood continues to be concerned that the Bush administration's proposed regulation poses a serious threat to women's health care by limiting the rights of patients to receive complete and accurate health information and services," Richards added.

But Leavitt said the regulation was intended to protect practitioners who have moral objections to abortion and sterilization, and would not interfere with patients' ability to get birth control or any legal medical procedure.

"Nothing in the new regulation in any way changes a patient's right to any legal procedure," he said, noting that a patient could go to another provider.

"This regulation is not about contraception," Leavitt added. "It's about abortion and conscience. It is very closely focused on abortion and physician's conscience."

The 36-page rule seeks to set up a system for enforcing conscience protections in three separate federal laws, the earliest of which dates to the 1970s. In some cases, the laws aim to protect both providers who refuse to take part in abortions and those who do.

The regulation is written to apply to a broad swath of the health care work force, not doctors alone. Accordingly, an employee whose task it is to clean the instruments used in a particular procedure would be covered. Also covered would be volunteers and trainees.

The underlying laws deal mainly with abortion and sterilization, but both the laws and the language of the rule seem to recognize that objections on conscience grounds could involve other types of services.

"This regulation does not limit patient access to health care, but rather protects any individual health care provider or institution from being compelled to participate in, or from being punished for refusal to participate in, a service that, for example, violates their conscience," the rule said.

The regulation would take effect after a 30-day comment period.

Before I put in my two cents, I want to see others reactions.

[coconutter]

What a f**king idiot. I got an e-mail about this from planned parenthood and saw the whole thing.


He's trying to do something to f**k us all over before he leaves.

Merry CHRISTmas anti-choice idiots.

[Comptine]

LMAO. That was great.

I think it's... unfair. What if you're in an area where all qualified professionals refuse to perform the procedure? What then? What about the woman's right to choose?

[coconutter]

LMAO. That was great.

I think it's... unfair. What if you're in an area where all qualified professionals refuse to perform the procedure? What then? What about the woman's right to choose?

I don't care if there's a physician who doesn't want to give abortions to women, that's their issue, but if they have an issue with it they shouldn't be in the certain area of the medical field where they may be "forced" to. There should be a place where women are able to get abortions without driving 3 hours though. Luckily there are a lot of Planned Parenthoods so that's not a real issue unless it's in a secluded place.

However, in the Planned Parenthood e-mail, they were saying bush is trying to make "crisis pregnancy centers" where they brainwash women by lies to not get an abortion. They also won't offer birth control there, like Planned Parenthood. I don't know if this is true, but here's the Planned Parenthood e-mail. If it is true, that's ridiculous to deceive women into doing something against their will. A complete violation to human rights. GG Bush.

Dear Alex,

At 2:00 this afternoon, the Bush administration launched an attack on women's health care and reproductive rights that has put Planned Parenthood and the people we serve in the fight of our lives.

We need your help today — and over the next few weeks — to fight back. Thank you in advance for standing with us during this critical time.

For the past month, we have been aware that the Bush administration was planning to release a rule that would limit the rights of patients to receive complete and accurate reproductive health information and services. With your help, we did all we could to stop the president from going through with the threat to release the new rule. But Bush was intent on delivering this "gift" to his extreme anti-choice supporters before he left office. Today was their lucky day.

You can bet that anti-choice activists are thrilled that President Bush made good on his promise to them. This rule will allow them to receive federal funds for so-called "crisis pregnancy centers" — anti-choice facilities whose purpose is to deceive and dissuade women from accessing birth control and abortion information and services. Click here to help us fight back.

A woman's ability to manage her own health care is at risk of being compromised by politics and ideology. The new regulation complicates rather than clarifies the law. It lets health care providers define abortion, which could threaten access to birth control and broader reproductive health care. This is just one more instance of the Bush administration putting politics in the exam room.

We've got a fight on our hands — and it's a big one. We have 30 days to dispute the rule with everything we've got. That includes you, Alex. It is during crises like the one happening today when your support for Planned Parenthood and the people we serve is most needed. We need your emergency contribution. We're launching a massive campaign immediately. Click here to help.

When more and more families are uninsured and have difficulty accessing health care at all, implementing a rule that will limit access to health services is utterly perplexing. The Bush administration's outrageous actions never cease to amaze me, but this one is beyond belief. It will hurt the women who most need help at a time when they are most vulnerable. It's unconscionable, and it is wrong. And, once again, it's our job to stop it.

Thank you, thank you, for your help today and during the next few weeks.




Sincerely,


Cecile Richards, President
Planned Parenthood Federation of America

here's the link if you really want to donate https://secure.ga0.org/02/frcp08/nzp2izBY1f...urce=frcp08_e1d
(that's what the click here to help links were)

[only-tuesdays]

Well I don't know about other states but in Oklahoma, Planned Parenthood didn't give you any kind of discount or assistance unless you were on govt provided health insurance. If you were on insurance provided by an employer, or parent, etc, it was considered "out of network" and cost insane amounts. So I don't really care for Planned Parenthood to begin with. </off topic>

As far as this goes...I don't know. I personally would never get an abortion myself and if I were working in a doctor's office where someone opted for one, I would not want to be involved in any way, shape, or form. I wouldn't criticize them for their choice, because it is their choice. But I wouldn't want to be part of it either.

I can see where this could be a problem though. This may make it more difficult for women to get an abortion in certain parts of the country. And as much as I hate and disagree with abortion, I don't think encouraging backwoods procedures is the answer.

[Comptine]

^Interesting. Planned Parenthood always advocates that they tried to give low/free care.

Also, they have their own type of insurance that doesn't cost too much or anything at all. Since it's specifically their insurance, it covers anything you ever need to stay healthy sexually wise. It's not just condoms and abortions. It's STI screenings and exams and pap smears and stuff.

[coconutter]

I like Planned Parenthood because they're one of the few sex-related organizations that understand children have sex, and they help them deal with it without prejudice or biased advice.

Anyways, I'm saying a doctor that would ever be in a position to do an abortion and doesn't want anything to do with it probably shouldn't be in the medical field of women's health, or one of it's branches having to do with abortions.

If women aren't able to get the care they need they may die trying to give themselves abortions, and that's ridiculous that the government can't realize that. They should advocate abortions, because women who choose to have them help keep the population level down (which is way out of control right now) and it saves the government from having to help support them if they're in need of financial help. Abortions aren't evil. It's a choice. People should be able to choose. Just like they should be able to chose whoever they want to vote.

[only-tuesdays]

When I called Planned Parenthood to use some of their services they asked if I was on Medicare/Soonercare. I told them no, and they told me that meant any services I used would be "out of network" and I'd have to pay out of pocket. I don't remember how much the actual figure was, but it was at least $100 for the things I needed. (Which I'm not going to share because it is personal)

I completely agree that it is a choice. If someone wants to have an abortion that is their decision. It is their life, and their child. It isn't a choice I would ever make however because I don't believe it is the right one.

Doctors don't go into the field of OB/GYN because they woke up one morning and thought "Hey, I want to do an abortion today!" I think most of them went into the field because they wanted to deliver babies, or just work with women and help their general sexual health. I'm sure there are doctors out there who would opt to not offer Abortions as one of their services for more reasons than just their personal beliefs or standing on the matter. An abortion can be very traumatizing.

[dosomethin888]

I am pro-life. A study by the Planned Parenthood Institute found that 1% of abortion cases are due to rape. I believe that life begins at conception, therefore, abortion is murder. In the very few cases of rape, if the woman pleads enough, go ahead and perform the abortion. But it is a matter of morals, which I believe this country is struggling with. I believe that some women and men, along with some girls I have talked to myself, are just plain lazy when it comes to using birth control and using protection.

They dont do it and then they are surprised and devastated when a pregnancy occurs.

I dont understand at all how people believe that partial birth abortion, which is killing a baby after it is partially out of a woman's body, is not murder. It is disgusting and terrible. Obama supports it and he also supports 13 year olds being able to get abortions performed without informed their parents, which is one of the numerous reasons I am not supporting him.


"I've noticed that everybody that is for abortion has already been born." -Ronald Reagan, quoted in New York Times, 22 September 1980

[berrypop90]

I'm going to make this short. I'm pro-choice. If a woman wants to have an abortion, so be it. I'd rather hear about a woman being happy w/ an abortion than having the child & being unhappy. There are enough unwanted children in the world already, why bring in another one? The world is overpopulated as it is.
Abortions happen, accept it and live your own damn life.