god, part 2 Options

[Spirited Away]

Annoyed at what?

At this: "but I'm more annoyed at the supposed rules that will make me go to Hell"

I think everyone is scared of a concept like hell. Well.. except maybe Goths and stuff but they're just creepy.
As for the Christians will disagree about hell and what not, I disagree with them. Hell doesn't exist. Well, the place itself doesn't, but the concept does. Its kinda complicated and I will try to explain. You've heard of the whole second coming of Jesus and what not? Well, it is said that he will come, take the righteous to heaven and stay there for a thousand years. During that time, Satan and his followers (note I didn't say non-believers here) will be here on earth trapped. Then at the end of the thousand years God will come back and all the evil people (again, no non-believers mentioned here) will die and burn, then all will be new. That's what I know to be hell. Not a burning place deep inside the earth's core where all people who are bad and don't believe in God will burn and be tortured for eternity. That doesn't exist.

I see. That's a new one. I haven't heard about that.

Ok. Again to clarify something. Yes, I've read that many of the people here contradict each other (I count myself in), but Fae, you believe in what you think is fairest, best, and more... believable, haha. It's up to you. It's your choice.

True, that's how it has always been.

Is this what has you against the concept of religion?

Sure, but that's not the only thing I have against it.

[CrimsonArchangel]

I see. That's a new one. I haven't heard about that.

And? What do you think about that? I'm not trying to force my beliefs down your throat. I'm just asking so you can make your own decision about what I said.

Sure, but that's not the only thing I have against it.

What else?

[Spirited Away]

And? What do you think about that? I'm not trying to force my beliefs down your throat. I'm just asking so you can make your own decision about what I said.

Do you think that God is loving?
If you do, why would he forsaken his children even if they are bad. You know, some parents, no matter how "bad" their children are, they still love them and try to help them as much as possible. And there are parents who would sacrifice anything for their children.

What else?

2. Most religions are more like businesses.
3. Religions causes discrimination.

That's all I can think of now, but I'm sure I can come up with plenty more. I just find that religion is no good. Or at least, religion is good, but the people who believe in it makes it no good.

[CrimsonArchangel]

Do you think that God is loving?
If you do, why would he forsaken his children even if they are bad. You know, some parents, no matter how "bad" their children are, they still love them and try to help them as much as possible. And there are parents who would sacrifice anything for their children.

Yes. I do think God is loving. And he doesn't forget all the "bad" children. He loves us all, and (I'm about to sound like my dad here , so bear with me, haha) he already sacrificed everything for us. He sent his only son to die for us on the cross, and when I say us, I mean *everyone*. And he also does try to help you. Believe it or not, there are times when your conscience (sp?) nags at you and it can be God's voice telling you the better path. (you don't have to believe me here, but it's just the way I see it).
Lemme put it in your terms. No one creates something they don't like or love. So, if your Creator made you, why would he not love you?

but the people who believe in it makes it no good

Couldn't agree more. People do take it to the extreme and that is annoying. But we also have free choice. We can conform to what the all-religious people say (PRAY 24/7!! READ YOUR BIBLE EVERY SECOND!!!! DON"T TALK TO OTHER PPL OF OTHER FAITHS!!!! etc), or we can follow God, still love him and be happy doing it the way we do it.

[*kryogenix*]

Do you think that God is loving?
If you do, why would he forsaken his children even if they are bad. You know, some parents, no matter how "bad" their children are, they still love them and try to help them as much as possible. And there are parents who would sacrifice anything for their children.

God is loving. He doesn't forsake his children.

Can a woman forget her sucking child,
that she should have no compassion on the son of her womb?
Even these may forget,
yet I will not forget you.
Behold, I have graven you on the palms of my hands...

Where's 1.?

2. Most religions are more like businesses.

How? Religion's purpose is not to make money.

3. Religions causes discrimination.

Differences cause discrimination, not religion.

That's all I can think of now, but I'm sure I can come up with plenty more. I just find that religion is no good. Or at least, religion is good, but the people who believe in it makes it no good.

I partially agree. There are some people who give religion a bad name, such as Islamic fundamentalists, or any religion's extremists for that matter. I can't speak for other religions, but if you look at catholicism's foundation, you'll see that its purpose is to provide a moral code for people, not create wealth for the church.

[Spirited Away]

God is loving. He doesn't forsake his children.

Um, according to another Christian, God will leave Satan's followers behind...

This is going to be hard considering CrimsonArchangel says God will leave for a thousand years with believers then come back to... I guess destroy non-believers...

I consider that forsaken. I also consider sending non-believers to Hell forsakening.

Where's 1.?

Number one was in an earlier post, I will edit this post once I find it.

How? Religion's purpose is not to make money.

Heh, this is an easy one. Some Catholic Churches ask for "donations" from it attendants all the time to either "renovate" the Church (even though it's brand-stanking-new) or to help build new Churches. I'm telling you now that that kind of money could be used to help hungry children or the homeless.

I'm not saying that religion's purpose is to make money, please carefully re-read that statement. I said that religions are like businesses and I can name several examples. There are advertisements on TV to go to certain churches and heck, there's a few stations dedicated for religious purposes.

My cousin's an architect and now has his own company. When he was still an amature and needed money badly, a Church asked him to design some changes for them and he happily complied thinking that he could use the money to pay off school debts. However, when the time for payment comes along, the "Father" subtly said that since my cousin is such a devout, this design will count as "donation" for the Church from him.

There is a Buddhist temple that attempted the same thing from my cousin, but he wasn't going to be fooled a second time. Though, after he formed his company, he did donate a design for the temple out of goodness of his heart.

Anyway, if you would ask, I shall give more examples of how religions act like businesses.

Differences cause discrimination, not religion.

Religions cause differences.

I partially agree. There are some people who give religion a bad name, such as Islamic fundamentalists, or any religion's extremists for that matter. I can't speak for other religions, but if you look at catholicism's foundation, you'll see that its purpose is to provide a moral code for people, not create wealth for the church.

I will tell you now that it was a Catholic Church that fooled my cousin. However, I did went to a Catholic Church, where my girl cousin serves as a nun for 5+ years now, that was quite nice.

Catholics' foundations may be pure and aim for good, however, the people who serve may not be so pure and good themselves <edit>as with every other religions, not only Christianity. </edit>

As I've stated earlier, religions aren't so bad if you take away the people who use it for bad things.

[*kryogenix*]

Um, according to another Christian, God will leave Satan's followers behind...

This is going to be hard considering CrimsonArchangel says God will leave for a thousand years with believers then come back to... I guess destroy non-believers...

I consider that forsaken. I also consider sending non-believers to Hell forsakening.

Yeah of course, if you continually demonstrate that you hate God and never feel sorry for it, you'll probably go to hell. God will not forsake you if you have done wrong and later repent. He won't say "You missed your chance, sorry."

I'm not saying that religion's purpose is to make money, please carefully re-read that statement. I said that religions are like businesses and I can name several examples. There are advertisements on TV to go to certain churches and heck, there's a few stations dedicated for religious purposes.

My cousin's an architect and now has his own company. When he was still an amature and needed money badly, a Church asked him to design some changes for them and he happily complied thinking that he could use the money to pay off school debts. However, when the time for payment comes along, the "Father" subtly said that since my cousin is such a devout, this design will count as "donation" for the Church from him.

There is a Buddhist temple that attempted the same thing from my cousin, but he wasn't going to be fooled a second time. Though, after he formed his company, he did donate a design for the temple out of goodness of his heart.

Anyway, if you would ask, I shall give more examples of how religions act like businesses. 

I'm sorry your cousin didn't receive the money. At least he'll get his reward after he dies.

Religions cause differences. 

So does skin color, hair color. As well as other non-religous clubs and organizations.

Catholics' foundations may be pure and aim for good, however, the people who serve may not be so pure and good themselves <edit>as with every other religions, not only Christianity. </edit>

As I've stated earlier, religions aren't so bad if you take away the people who use it for bad things.

I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe your cousin could have gone to a court and asked that the church compensate him somehow.

Heh, this is an easy one. Some Catholic Churches ask for "donations" from it attendants all the time to either "renovate" the Church (even though it's brand-stanking-new) or to help build new Churches. I'm telling you now that that kind of money could be used to help hungry children or the homeless.

My church does this. They needed money to build a new rectory. The old rectory was several hundred years old i believe. I'll also clear up that some money goes to the diocese, which is forwarded to other organizations. Missionary work for example. The Catholic Church does not require that you pay a certain percentage of your income, unlike the other christian religions. But tithing is always good.

[onenonly101]

I'm not Catholic I am a Baptist Christian

I don't know if I have contradicted myself during this and if i have i'm sorry. The best thing to go to reference to is the Bible. About Hell and such. The second coming is as what Crimsonangel stated, but before the second coming there is Hell for those who choose not the follow God. Hell is real and eternal. Romans 2:1-9 talks about hell and 5-8 addresses that God doesn't forsake nonbelievers:

You may be saying, "What terrible people you have been talking about!" But you are just as bad, and you have no excuse! When you say they are wicked and should be punished, you are condemning yourself, for you do these very same things. 2And we know that God, in his justice, will punish anyone who does such things. 3Do you think that God will judge and condemn others for doing them and not judge you when you do them, too? 4Don't you realize how kind, tolerant, and patient God is with you? Or don't you care? Can't you see how kind he has been in giving you time to turn from your sin? 5But no, you won't listen. So you are storing up terrible punishment for yourself because of your stubbornness in refusing to turn from your sin. For there is going to come a day of judgment when God, the just judge of all the world, 6will judge all people according to what they have done. 7He will give eternal life to those who persist in doing what is good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. 8But he will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who refuse to obey the truth and practice evil deeds. 9There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on sinning--for the Jew first and also for the Gentile.

Also 2nd Thessalonians talks about persecution,hell,the antichrist, and God making us strong.
And all in Revelations it talks about The Second coming,heaven and hell. I don't think I can explain better than the passages in the Bible.

The Church-

The church is supossed to be a place where the people of God all over the world those who follow Jesus and proclaim him as Lord. There are alot of misconceptions about what the church is. One is that the church is a building. while most local churches in america own buildings they should not be confused as one and the same. The church is people, God's covenant people called to follow Him in faith and action, not the structures where they meet. When we say we are going to church we are not just talking about sitting down in a building. We mean we are meeting together as God's people gathered in one place for the putposes of worship, fellowship, instruction and what not. in many parts of the world congregations often do not own property. they meet in homes stores schools prisons and other places. the earliest Christians met in secret, in caves and other hidden places for fear of persecution and death. still today it is dangerous in some places to be a follower of Christ. but it is not where the meeting is held it is who hold it. wherever Christians gather there is the church. Another one is that the church is where good people go to do religious things. There are no good people. there are simply sinners who are forgiven and sinners who are not forgiven. the church isn't for good people, it is for sinners who know they've been forgiven and who come together regularly to celebrate God and the unbelieveable love he has for us. someone has put it this way: the church is not a showcase for saints, but it is a hospital fo sinner. when we come together to praise and worship our God, to thank him for all he has done for us. We thank and honor him for who he is God and creator of all, the One who loved us enough to let his Son die for our sins. We praise God with our attendence,our prayers,our music, the preaching of the Word,our money,our fellowship, and countless other ways. The biggest one misconception i think is that the church is a human institution. The way many Christians behave it sometimes is difficult to see any difference between the church and other organizations. But the church is God's own institution, called into being as his instrument on this planet. It is the church that proclaims the Good News of Jesus Christ, seeks justice for the poor and rejected and suffering, tries to influence society for the good of all people and the glory of God, and lifts up the name of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit before an unbeliving world. In other words, we ecist for God's pleasure and purposes before our own. There are no perfect churches. Made of of sinful humans, how could any church be perfect? But the church is made up of God's people, called into existence by Jesus himself and built on the rock solid foundation of his promise that all the powers of hell will not conquer it.

I hope this helps

[Spirited Away]

Yeah of course, if you continually demonstrate that you hate God and never feel sorry for it, you'll probably go to hell. God will not forsake you if you have done wrong and later repent. He won't say "You missed your chance, sorry."

I think you quoted the wrong person... I didn't say that stuff.

Anyway...

How do I demonstrate that I hate God? I'm more indifferent to him than hating. I rarely hate unless the person truly deserve such an emotion from me and God hasn't done anything close to that extent. I'm a roundabout, non-evil person.

"Repent" in this case, would be to believe in God.

I'm sorry your cousin didn't receive the money. At least he'll get his reward after he dies.

Sure, if that's what you believe. But then, that kind of thing didn't put food on his family's table when he needed it.

So does skin color, hair color. As well as other non-religous clubs and organizations.

Sure, all those things and more. Then I guess you agree with me that religions cause differences that leads to discrimination.

I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe your cousin could have gone to a court and asked that the church compensate him somehow.

That's the thing, the "father" was a sly one. He annonces the "donation" the very next day to everyone. I'm felt so bad for him because he put a lot of time into it since he needed money really bad then. Anyway, he just shrugs it off now, but the story is to prove that even (some) clergy men are business men.

[CrimsonArchangel]

Um, according to another Christian, God will leave Satan's followers behind...

This is going to be hard considering CrimsonArchangel says God will leave for a thousand years with believers then come back to... I guess destroy non-believers...

I consider that forsaken. I also consider sending non-believers to Hell forsakening.

Fae, remember I said Satan's followers, not non-believers. If you consider yourself a follower of satan... well then... I'm sorry.... but I never said that non-believers will go to hell or are the ones that will be left behind. I don't think you can be a follower of Satan and then expect to be in God's prescense... its like mixing oil and water... they just don't mix.... Remember that I also said that the place *hell* doesn't exist. Its a thing in people's minds....

You have time to repent and accept and believe in God.... what I don't understand is why do you refuse so much to believe in God. I know you said you believe in a higher being, but not God. Why not? Why are you indifferent?

About religions, I completely agree with you. There are people that give it a bad name, but you can't base your beliefs in the actions of a few (I'm not singling you out. I'm saying you meaning everyone in general).

Again, I will repeat myself, but God is willing to forgive you if you would only let him. I ask this in complete honesty and curiosity. Why is it that you refuse so much to believe in God??

[*kryogenix*]

I think you quoted the wrong person... I didn't say that stuff.

Anyway...

How do I demonstrate that I hate God? I'm more indifferent to him than hating. I rarely hate unless the person truly deserve such an emotion from me and God hasn't done anything close to that extent. I'm a roundabout, non-evil person.

"Repent" in this case, would be to believe in God.




Sure, all those things and more. Then I guess you agree with me that religions cause differences that leads to discrimination.


That's the thing, the "father" was a sly one. He annonces the "donation" the very next day to everyone. I'm felt so bad for him because he put a lot of time into it since he needed money really bad then. Anyway, he just shrugs it off now, but the story is to prove that even (some) clergy men are business men.

ah i'm sorry, i put the quote brackets around my response! how silly of me. I edited my post, please re read.


I'm sorry for using the word you, by you i mean any person. if any person demonstrates that he or she hates God, then he/she shouldn't expect to go to heaven.

Sure, if that's what you believe. But then, that kind of thing didn't put food on his family's table when he needed it.

Here:

And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.

Sure, all those things and more. Then I guess you agree with me that religions cause differences that leads to discrimination.

What should we do about it then?

That's the thing, the "father" was a sly one. He annonces the "donation" the very next day to everyone. I'm felt so bad for him because he put a lot of time into it since he needed money really bad then. Anyway, he just shrugs it off now, but the story is to prove that even (some) clergy men are business men.

in that case, my pity goes to your cousin.

[Spirited Away]

CrimsonArchangel and Kyro, hey you two are mixing up my responses That's why things do not make any sense. Some of the things I say won't make any sense if you're not reading the original response/post.

Fae, remember I said Satan's followers, not non-believers. If you consider yourself a follower of satan... well then... I'm sorry.... but I never said that non-believers will go to hell or are the ones that will be left behind. I don't think you can be a follower of Satan and then expect to be in God's prescense... its like mixing oil and water... they just don't mix.... Remember that I also said that the place *hell* doesn't exist. Its a thing in people's minds....

I never said I was a follower of Satan but I think that it is implied that non-believers are automatically seemed as such. After all, the word "heathen" dubbed to us by self-righteous believers has a devilish ring to it.

You have time to repent and accept and believe in God.... what I don't understand is why do you refuse so much to believe in God. I know you said you believe in a higher being, but not God. Why not? Why are you indifferent?

I am just as indiffernt to God as you might be indifferent to things that doesn't concern you. God's business is His own, if I don't believe in Him then I'm not His business.

As for Hell, remember that I liken it to monsters under the bed/closet. It is something that may scare me, but I know it doesn't exist (and once again, some Christians may refute me).

About religions, I completely agree with you. There are people that give it a bad name, but you can't base your beliefs in the actions of a few (I'm not singling you out. I'm saying you meaning everyone in general).

Sure, I realize that a handful of people doesn't speak out for that religion. Look at it this way, there are so many denominations in different your religion, how do you know that you belong to the right one? What is "right" to you? I mean, you all believe in Jesus, but how come there are different ways to serve him?

How do you know who's corrupted? They all say that they work in the name of God...
Other religions are just as bad when we talk about denominations. There are simply too many and everyone claims to be right.

Again, I will repeat myself, but God is willing to forgive you if you would only let him. I ask this in complete honesty and curiosity. Why is it that you refuse so much to believe in God??

But I do believe in a God. I believe in a Creator, and I think there are similarities between my Creator and your God as well as Allah and Yaweh... etc.

This is where I have to call forth a Deistic perspective. I agree with deists to the extent that God/the Creator created our world, then left it to our devices. Maybe that explains a bit of what I believe in, it's a mixture of Agnostic humanist concepts and tendencies with a dash of Deism.

ah i'm sorry, i put the quote brackets around my response! how silly of me. I edited my post, please re read.
I'm sorry for using the word you, by you i mean any person. if any person demonstrates that he or she hates God, then he/she shouldn't expect to go to heaven.

Ah, I see.
How can one demonstrate that they hate God? You mean by calling His name in vain or by killing God's children? Hate is a very strong word so I don't think that anyone really hates God. I think people are just confused and indifferent to Him.

What should we do about it then?

About religion? What do you suppose one can do?

in that case, my pity goes to your cousin.

Yea, me, too, but he's a sucessful now.

<edit>Oh, yes, one last thing:
Asking me why I refuse to believe in God is similar to me asking you why do you refuse to believe in Allah or Yaweh... Or believe in anything at all.
</edit>

[CrimsonArchangel]

CrimsonArchangel and Kyro, hey you two are mixing up my responses

Whooops. Sorry! Call me Angel, by the way. It's my real name anyway.

I think that it is implied that non-believers are automatically seemed as such.

You can at least be sure that I never implied it that way. To be a follower of Satan you are believing in him and what not. Non believers are completely different.

as you might be indifferent to things that doesn't concern you

I don't know if this is gonan help any, but in all honesty, I'm actually quite interested in things that don't concern me. By getting into them I learn more about what I know, why I know it and why I believe in what I know, and sometimes even for a good laugh. I look into things that don't concern me to learn and be able to make more sound decisions on my own. BUt that's just me.

Hell shouldn't scare you. You're a good person (you said it yourself ).

About the Allah and Yaweh thing. Its not that I don't believe in them/he/whatever, haha. I myself believe that Allah, Yaweh and God are the same person/being, its just the different views different religions have, so I really don't think that can liken to me asking you why you refuse to believe in God (sorry if I sounded rude. DIdn't mean to. )


For the record, I won't be able to update until either sat night or sunday. Graduation tomorrow... After that I have to go work to a summer camp, so I won't be able to update much. Sorry! Email always works if anyone wants to keep on arguing and debating with moi.

[Spirited Away]

Whooops. Sorry!  Call me Angel, by the way. It's my real name anyway.

Angel it is, how fitting!

You can at least be sure that I never implied it that way. To be a follower of Satan you are believing in him and what not. Non believers are completely different.

Oh, I hope you didn't think that I meant that you implied things that way, because I meant that the act of labeling non-believers as "heathens" and/or "infidels" seem to suggest a great gap of difference between Christians and non-believers. If to be Christian mean to believe in Jesus and is "right", that means to be anything else is not to believe in Jesus and therefore wrong.

If Christians are right because they serve God and is going to Heaven, then to be anything else is to be wrong and serve the opposite (not sure) and is going to Hell.

You see, one can come to that conclusion quite easily with blatant implications.

I don't know if this is gonan help any, but in all honesty, I'm actually quite interested in things that don't concern me. By getting into them I learn more about what I know, why I know it and why I believe in what I know, and sometimes even for a good laugh. I look into things that don't concern me to learn and be able to make more sound decisions on my own. BUt that's just me.

Ah, maybe I shouldn't have used such a narrow example. Well then, I'm glad to hear you're willing to learn things, but there are people who aren't so open to accepting things that are different from them or their beliefs.

Like I have asked Kyro, if a group of people come along and settle in your area, then tell you that what you've believe in your whole life was all a lie and that what they believe in is the only "truth", how would you feel about that?

Hell shouldn't scare you. You're a good person (you said it yourself ).

Non-existent monsters under the bed/closet shouldn't scare little kids either, but they just do.

About the Allah and Yaweh thing. Its not that I don't believe in them/he/whatever, haha. I myself believe that Allah, Yaweh and God are the same person/being, its just the different views different religions have, so I really don't think that can liken to me asking you why you refuse to believe in God (sorry if I sounded rude. DIdn't mean to. )

No, you don't come out as rude, but you did confuse me greatly. I thought that Christians just believe God as.. God... and that's it. It is nice to know that someone else aside from myself who thinks there is a connection to Allah, Yaweh, and God.

For the record, I won't be able to update until either sat night or sunday. Graduation tomorrow...   After that I have to go work to a summer camp, so I won't be able to update much. Sorry! Email always works if anyone wants to keep on arguing and debating with moi.

Summer Camp??? Where? FUN!! Anyway, have fun with Graduation.

[IIO__oII]

Angel it is, how fitting! 

haha thats cute

[lemonlina]

Oh geez, this again. Well... I don't think much good has come out of this belief in God. -_-

[CrimsonArchangel]

Angel it is, how fitting!

GAHHHHHH!!!! So glad graduation is over. It was so long and dull. It's on to med school now!

Anyhoo, about what I'm quoting. There's nothing we can do about how our parents name us, now can we?

if a group of people come along and settle in your area, then tell you that what you've believe in your whole life was all a lie and that what they believe in is the only "truth", how would you feel about that?

Hmmm... good question. Like I said before, I'd ask a lot of questions about their beliefs, find out a lot of stuff, have a good laugh , then stay with what I believe in. That sounded too.... close minded. NEver mind. I would ask questions, get a lot of info, ask more questions, have some debates, and then I'd continue on with what I believe in. Again like I said before, I would take all those people have told me into consideration in order for me to be able to make a more sound decision to swing one way or the other.


I don't know if this helps any, but... when I was born, I was born one month early, with tons of health complications including some brain problems (they're all fixed now, haha). I was so sick that doctors predicted that I was not gonna live past one year of age, and if I was lucky enough to get to five years, I was going to be midget short and retarded. My mom always told me that she and my family wanted me so much that they prayed to God to keep me alive... and he did. I just graduated nursing school and I'm going on to med school with my sister. I guess that is what makes my beliefs in God stronger. As sick as I was no human doing was going to keep me alive. It just wasn't possible (I've done my research about what I was born with and there is a very low percentage of survival and no treatment...yes, it could have been luck, but it could have also been God). That's what makes me believe in God. I saw his work done first hand.

Maybe all you need Fae is to see God's work first hand...

On another note. Some one here (sorry, forgot who), said that God forgives but doesn't forget. (Trying hard not to quote Bible here to make it easier to understand... ) God does forget. He likens his forgiveness to casting your sins to the bottom of the ocean where no one goes. It is only up to you if you want to relive and revive those sins, but as for God, he forgot them already.


Ok, that was long. Now that that's done, this will probably be the last update until I return from camp. If not, then I will see you all later, if it is, then until I come back! Keep on debating! It's fun!

[*kryogenix*]

If Christians are right because they serve God and is going to Heaven, then to be anything else is to be wrong and serve the opposite (not sure) and is going to Hell.










No, you don't come out as rude, but you did confuse me greatly. I thought that Christians just believe God as.. God... and that's it. It is nice to know that someone else aside from myself who thinks there is a connection to Allah, Yaweh, and God.



Summer Camp??? Where? FUN!! Anyway, have fun with Graduation.

If you don't believe in Jesus, it doesn't mean that you automatically worship satan. I think I was told once that not only christians go to heaven. In fact, I remember my priest saying that the pope told a muslim group that he wasn't going to ask them to become christians, only that they become better muslims. I believe that if you do good, you'll go to heaven. But in heaven you'll worship God, so why not start now?

Like I have asked Kyro, if a group of people come along and settle in your area, then tell you that what you've believe in your whole life was all a lie and that what they believe in is the only "truth", how would you feel about that?

Of course I wouldn't just convert on the spot. I'd check and see if these people were for real. Imagine, if a man said he was the second coming of the messiah. I don't think many people would believe him right away. In fact, some people would persecute him. This is what happened to Jesus. He came out of no where, born in a manger, raised by a carpenter. He made outrageous claims, like he destroy the temple and rebuild it in 3 days. And that by eating his flesh and drinking his blood, you could receive salvation. What happened to him? He was hung on a cross. However, he did gain a following, because he proved that he was the son of God through his miracles and from the accounts given to us by his disciples.

Non-existent monsters under the bed/closet shouldn't scare little kids either, but they just do.

Hey how do you know they don't exist!

About the Allah and Yaweh thing. Its not that I don't believe in them/he/whatever, haha. I myself believe that Allah, Yaweh and God are the same person/being, its just the different views different religions have, so I really don't think that can liken to me asking you why you refuse to believe in God (sorry if I sounded rude. DIdn't mean to. happy.gif

Yeah, i believe that they are the same. However, they are a different person to different groups of people.

For example, you my know your father simply as Dad. But your friend might call him Mr. Jones. And his golf buddy might call him Frank. Same person, different name.

Good Luck with camp CrimsonArchAngel.

[Spirited Away]

GAHHHHHH!!!! So glad graduation is over. It was so long and dull. It's on to med school now!

Anyhoo, about what I'm quoting. There's nothing we can do about how our parents name us, now can we?

Ah, no we cannot... I feel sorry Gwyneth Paltrow's kid, "Apple" (though I think it's kind of cute).

Hmmm... good question. Like I said before, I'd ask a lot of questions about their beliefs, find out a lot of stuff, have a good laugh    , then stay with what I believe in. That sounded too.... close minded. NEver mind. I would ask questions, get a lot of info, ask more questions, have some debates, and then I'd continue on with what I believe in. Again like I said before, I would take all those people have told me into consideration in order for me to be able to make a more sound decision to swing one way or the other.

Your first reaction would be what anyone would do if they already feels like their belief is the right one. That group of people may find some who are willing to convert if their faith isn't strong or they did not have anything to believe in the first place.

Your second answer is basically what I did when I studied theology a bit when in my first years of high school. I did take things into consideration, then I found that most religions do not suit me but a mixture of them do.

I don't know if this helps any, but... when I was born, I was born one month early, with tons of health complications including some brain problems (they're all fixed now, haha). I was so sick that doctors predicted that I was not gonna live past one year of age, and if I was lucky enough to get to five years, I was going to be midget short and retarded. My mom always told me that she and my family wanted me so much that they prayed to God to keep me alive... and he did. I just graduated nursing school and I'm going on to med school with my sister. I guess that is what makes my beliefs in God stronger. As sick as I was no human doing was going to keep me alive. It just wasn't possible (I've done my research about what I was born with and there is a very low percentage of survival and no treatment...yes, it could have been luck, but it could have also been God). That's what makes me believe in God. I saw his work done first hand.

Well I'm glad you are alive and is who you are today.

My Mom had two children before my older brother, and both died in infancy. She was a very strong woman considering that her husband left her for another woman and she was dirt poor. She didn't pray nor did she look for salvation in Buddha or God (her Mother was Catholic) but instead, she fought with the belief that things will be better because she was a good, hardworking person. (I'm leaving a lot of stuff out but to add to her misery, she was in prison because the "re-education" policy created by a Communist turned Vietnam)... Etc...

Anyway, she told me she didn't care what would happen if she lived or died, it was only important that she showed greedy people who shunned her that she lived the best of her ability. To this day she remains adament that my brother and I be allowed to choose our own beliefs. She says if God is something to help a person live a good life, then it's not a bad thing, but it's not a necessity either.

Maybe all you need Fae is to see God's work first hand...

I would love to see what He could do for those suffering from something they have no control over or something they were born into (ex: famine, opressive government, diseases..etc).
If it's God's will that those must suffer, then I have nothing more to add because perhaps God believes in Karma and those people have done some misdeed... I don't know.

On another note. Some one here (sorry, forgot who), said that God forgives but doesn't forget. (Trying hard not to quote Bible here to make it easier to understand... ) God does forget. He likens his forgiveness to casting your sins to the bottom of the ocean where no one goes. It is only up to you if you want to relive and revive those sins, but as for God, he forgot them already.

I think it was ComradeRed. But I think he also made quite a valid point that God cannot, or rather should not be able to, forget if He is all-knowing. Someone who is claimed to be all-knowing shouldn't be able to forget or not know about things.

Keep on debating! It's fun!

And a good learning experience.


Response to Kyro

If you don't believe in Jesus, it doesn't mean that you automatically worship satan. I think I was told once that not only christians go to heaven. In fact, I remember my priest saying that the pope told a muslim group that he wasn't going to ask them to become christians, only that they become better muslims. I believe that if you do good, you'll go to heaven. But in heaven you'll worship God, so why not start now?

I think I can swallow that much easier than hearing something like "only Christians will go to Heaven".
I simply believe that there are non-Christians who truly are too good for this world. I'm most definately not referring to myself, no, but I've seen people who are really virtuous. To say that good people won't go to Heaven or reincarnate as a human only because they don't believe in so-and-so diety is simply too illogical and unsound.

If you can do more good with your time than worship, why not skip worshipping and do good? It's funny, because I used to know this one guy, who was a ardent Church-goer. His family go to Church every other day after school (almost every day) to pray and volunteer for the Church until dinner time. Anyway, his mother found out that I wasn't Catholic and refused to let him associate (he was interested in me for a short time) with me... That's what got me into thinking about religions.

I see it as this, if you can spend 2-4 hours worshipping God and cleaning the Church's yards, you can spend that same 2-4 hours to work for the homeless or contributing to "build a house" programs for the poor, or take that time to read to a child. No, I don't do those first two things... even though I should, but if people would spend less time worshipping/praising, less money into building more and more Churches/temples/places of worship, there would be less unhappy faces in the world.

I think God would like that to happen as well.

Hey how do you know they don't exist!

Uh... they don't... well... they're not supposed to... um.. the only monsters under my bed are bedbugs and/or dust bunnies.... I think.

Yeah, i believe that they are the same. However, they are a different person to different groups of people.

For example, you my know your father simply as Dad. But your friend might call him Mr. Jones. And his golf buddy might call him Frank. Same person, different name.

Good for you two. There isn't a reason why the religious world should insist that they are different beings... and once more: "a rose, called by any other name, is still a rose."

[IIO__oII]

hmm... i wanna ask ppl sumthing.

my last year bible teacher said that all form of meditating was wrong. i mean, i guess it is sort of focusing on erasing ure mind, as my teacher said, but.. i dont think its WRONG. it just helps u relax and become calm... wut do u guys think??

[Spirited Away]

hmm... i wanna ask ppl sumthing.

my last year bible teacher said that all form of meditating was wrong. i mean, i guess it is sort of focusing on erasing ure mind, as my teacher said, but.. i dont think its WRONG. it just helps u relax and become calm... wut do u guys think??

Did you teacher gave a reason as to why she claims all forms of meditation is wrong?

[princess2113]

no u can meditate...prolly the WAY u were meditating is wrong...as in like if u are calling on spirits or saying "ohm..........." b/c God tells u NOT to call the spirits and ohm is a Hindu religious word....the way you are supposed to meditate is by praying to God...asking HIM to help u relax, ask Him to calm your mind, ask Him to relieve your worries, etc.....but if she thinks all forms are wrong, she is wrong b/c when u ask God to help u forgives some1 for example that is earasing part of the mind, and we ARE supposed to do that....maybe u misunderstood?

[Spirited Away]

no u can meditate...prolly the WAY u were meditating is wrong...as in like if u are calling on spirits or saying "ohm..........." b/c God tells u NOT to call the spirits and ohm is a Hindu religious word....the way you are supposed to meditate is by praying to God...asking HIM to help u relax, ask Him to calm your mind, ask Him to relieve your worries, etc.....but if she thinks all forms are wrong, she is wrong b/c when u ask God to help u forgives some1 for example that is earasing part of the mind, and we ARE supposed to do that....maybe u misunderstood?

Erm, I don't think you read her post correctly.

She specifically said her teacher said ALLLLLLLLLLL forms of meditation is wrong and she wants to know why.

So how I'm understanding the question is that, no matter how you meditate (God or no God), meditating is still wrong.

[princess2113]

Erm, I don't think you read her post correctly.

She specifically said her teacher said ALLLLLLLLLLL forms of meditation is wrong and she wants to know why.

So how I'm understanding the question is that, no matter how you meditate (God or no God), meditating is still wrong.

no, i read it right thats y i said the teacher is wrong, or she misunderstood the teacher

and no, meditating isnt wrong...did u read anything i wrote

[Spirited Away]

no, i read it right thats y i said the teacher is wrong, or she misunderstood the teacher

and no, meditating isnt wrong...did u read anything i wrote

Considering that I rarely understand exactly what you write, I don't read most of your posts.

Is praying meditating? How can you pray (with God in your mind) and meditate ("erasing part of the mind")? Oh, never mind... Do you mean to sort of use meditation to think about God instead of emptying the mind?

Saying "ohm" in Hindu might mean to conjure spirits (I don't know), but it's used in yoga to just relax... there's no need to keep that one meaningless word for a religious context.

As for your teacher miss iio__oii, I think she's on crack. Either that or I just don't know what I'm talking about :

Psalm 1:2

But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he Meditate Day and Night.



Joshua 1:8

This book of the law shall not depart out of thy mouth; but thou shalt Meditate therein Day and Night,