Does Evolution Require Atheism? Options

[BadCraziness]

Ok, to be more clear, Atheism with beliefs about the origin of humans would need evolution. And lack of belief in a god or goddess or whatever doesn't mean atheist. It simply means nonbeliever.

No, not necessarily. You could be atheists and have no beliefs about the origin of humans, and you could still be an atheist.

A nonbeliever of any kind of god is the definition of atheism.
"a" is a Latin preposition turned prefix meaning "away from."
A nonbeliever in theism is "away from" theism.
Therefor they are atheist.

[heyo-captain-jac...]

BadCraziness, can you agree that atheist derived from satanists? At least the common philosophy of atheism?

Thats actually very true. Both aim to better the self without any higher power. The biggest difference is Satanism has Satan.

No, not necessarily. You could be atheists and have no beliefs about the origin of humans, and you could still be an atheist.

A nonbeliever of any kind of god is the definition of atheism.
"a" is a Latin preposition turned prefix meaning "away from."
A nonbeliever in theism is "away from" theism.
Therefor they are atheist.

That first part is exactly what I was saying. The second part has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

[BadCraziness]

BadCraziness, can you agree that atheist derived from satanists? At least the common philosophy of atheism?

No.

Satanism came from Theism, obviously. And before we had theism, we had atheism.

[illriginal]

No.

Satanism came from Theism, obviously. And before we had theism, we had atheism.

LOL.... this kid doesn't even know his origins of atheism. The answer is yes and I rest my case. Good night and good luck.

Thats actually very true. Both aim to better the self without any higher power. The biggest difference is Satanism has Satan.

Correct. I'm hittin the sack.

[heyo-captain-jac...]

No.

Satanism came from Theism, obviously. And before we had theism, we had atheism.

I really think Satanism is a sort of fusion of the two others.

[heyo-captain-jac...]

LOL.... this kid doesn't even know his origins of atheism. The answer is yes and I rest my case. Good night and good luck.
Correct. I'm hittin the sack.

Actually he is right on the origins of atheism. Check the Theism and Atheism section on Wikipedia or something of the sort.

[BadCraziness]

No... basically if what you're claiming is legitimate then there has to be some sort of change.. some sort of evidence in evolution during this time period. If there isn't any sort of evolution during this time period, not even a slight change in the human "DNA"... this I call bullshit and fallacies.

Uh, yeah, considering the little ocean-dwellers evolved to later step foot on land. Scientists have found a fossilized fish who exhibits evidence of these evolutionary traits.

And there definitely has been change in the human DNA in the time we've been on earth. For one, we're much taller than our human counter-parts in the early middle ages (their height only usually ranged from 4-5 feet as adults). Plus our appendixes (which used to be another stomach when we couldn't get enough food) have withered away and become useless. And our pinky toes have become progressively smaller over time.

Exactly. And do you know how many versions of the bible there is? Easily over a thousand different versions...
Right... but then that's when human error occurs. Misinterpreting and taking things out of context.
Christians are the blame for it, typically Romans who pushed their pagan mixed belief system onto the benevolence.

Oohh, I saw this really interesting documentary about that on the history channel once! The same thing could have happened with any book back then though, including the Qur'an, when the only printing methods are having a bunch of monks copying shit down over and over again in candlelight.

Spoken like a true satanist. That is completely backwards and far from the truth.

lol no, in fact, it IS the truth, whether you like it or not.
A baby is born without a coherent thought in its head, let alone any societal concept of God.

And I'm not a Satanist, as I don't believe in Satan or hell, and I really don't dig ritualism.

[BadCraziness]

The biggest difference is Satanism has Satan.
That first part is exactly what I was saying. The second part has nothing to do with what I was talking about.

Lol yes it does.

You said that a person who doesn't believe in god is just a nonbeliever, not an atheist.
I proved you wrong through a basic understanding of linguistics.

[illriginal]

Actually he is right on the origins of atheism. Check the Theism and Atheism section on Wikipedia or something of the sort.

Wikipedia isn't a good source. Fact of the matter is, I've already had the discussion about atheism deriving from satanism. And a respectable member who is atheist and very intelligent one at that, agreed. Atheism is like a sect of Satanism, without the belief in a higher power of any sort.

I know of a few atheist scholars who've actually admitted as well but made it clear that it's not satanism but just a sect of satanism which neglects any sort of association with God.

lol no, in fact, it IS the truth, whether you like it or not.
A baby is born without a coherent thought in its head, let alone any societal concept of God.

Because we have a machine that can read minds by scanning their brains... this is the assumption given to us? Dood I'm done discussing this, I'm hittin the sack.

Ha! "And our pinky toes have become progressively smaller over time."
Bro that's due to wearing shoes man.. wtf

[BadCraziness]

LOL.... this kid doesn't even know his origins of atheism. The answer is yes and I rest my case. Good night and good luck.
Correct. I'm hittin the sack.

Her, thanks.
The fact is that we are born without any belief system whatsoever, and by definition we are atheists. This is where atheism originates. Atheism is as old as the human race. Theism is only as old as its prophets.

This is historical fact, whether you like it or not.

[BadCraziness]

Actually he is right on the origins of atheism. Check the Theism and Atheism section on Wikipedia or something of the sort.

No, just because we didn't have someone to define the lack of belief in god (which existed as long as the human race has existed), doesn't mean that it never was.

[BadCraziness]

Wikipedia isn't a good source. Fact of the matter is, I've already had the discussion about atheism deriving from satanism. And a respectable member who is atheist and very intelligent one at that, agreed. Atheism is like a sect of Satanism, without the belief in a higher power of any sort.

Oh, well if he says it, it MUST be so! Don't be ridiculous.

Because we have a machine that can read minds by scanning their brains... this is the assumption given to us? Dood I'm done discussing this, I'm hittin the sack.

We know this because we know that everyone is born a blank slate. Basic psychology.

Unless you went and saw "Baby Geniuses" and took it literally, lol.

[BadCraziness]

Bro that's due to wearing shoes man.. wtf

lmao no. If our pinky toes got smaller just because we wore shoes, then everyone would be born with a long pinky toe like the other toes and it would get smaller only if they wore shoes.

The reason why we still have them at all is because there is no real evolutionary pressure for it. Evolution is lazy - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Scientists believe that the toe has only shrunken at all because it could have been getting in the way of running fast and making an escape. But now, people don't need to do that anymore really, so hence the lack of evolutionary pressure.

[illriginal]

Oh, well if he says it, it MUST be so! Don't be ridiculous.
We know this because we know that everyone is born a blank slate. Basic psychology.

Unless you went and saw "Baby Geniuses" and took it literally, lol.

Yes but psychology isn't 100% accurate either. They're guestimations at most. To claim that a child is born at a blank slate is claimin that a child is basically a vegetable, c'mon man =\

lmao no. If our pinky toes got smaller just because we wore shoes, then everyone would be born with a long pinky toe like the other toes and it would get smaller only if they wore shoes.

The reason why we still have them at all is because there is no real evolutionary pressure for it. Evolution is lazy - if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Scientists believe that the toe has only shrunken at all because it could have been getting in the way of running fast and making an escape. But now, people don't need to do that anymore really, so hence the lack of evolutionary pressure.

Ok so when you have a child, never have them wear any sort of covering over their feet... EVER. Make it a commitment to your independent self. It'll be your own experiement. Sadly, I think myth busters debunked that theory too...


alright it's 7:15 AM and I have a hang over.

[BadCraziness]

Yes but psychology isn't 100% accurate either. They're guestimations at most. To claim that a child is born at a blank slate is claimin that a child is basically a vegetable, c'mon man =\

Not really. Psychology might be a soft science but I think someone whose studied it all their lives would have more insight as to what the human brain is like than you.

Ok so when you have a child, never have them wear any sort of covering over their feet... EVER.

Have you ever seen a baby's foot? They have a dinky pinky toe too. I was just proving your claim wrong - your claim being that the pinky toe getting smaller isn't from evolution and is from wearing shoes. Which would be wrong. And even if it did come from wearing shoes, it would still involve evolution.



And goodnight/morning.

[NoSex]

There are so many errors and absurdities in this thread right now that it would be fat too trying to even begin to "make right" the confusion in this place. Instead, I'll just deal with some really simple shit:

Ok, to be more clear, Atheism with beliefs about the origin of humans would need evolution. And lack of belief in a god or goddess or whatever doesn't mean atheist. It simply means nonbeliever.

A non-believer is an atheist. An atheist is a non-believer. All of this is analytical. Atheism is merely the lack of a belief in any god (not a prefix "a," meaning without, "theos" meaning god).

Since atheism is not a religion, a doctrine, or a philosophy (just like theism), there can be nothing more said of it than that it indicates a "lack of belief in god or gods." So, to be an atheist, all you must adhere to is the narrow definition of "lacking belief." That's it. That's atheism.

Because of this, babies, who do indeed "lack belief," happen to be atheists. Further, atheism must be as old as non-belief, as old as mankind itself (possibly even older - it might be silly to call an insect an atheist, but it would still be analytically true).

can you agree that atheist derived from satanists? At least the common philosophy of atheism?

(See above)

[Rhianann]

no.

-edit

tung, im ranting here.

why is it that you're coming off as a 'hey, i go to college so i know more about you. i can insult God all i want now because i am a biology major and that makes me smarter than all of you. ' ?

honestly, tung. it's called arrogance. you have it. quit being a dick.

and for those of you who say evolution and atheism are not entwined are ignorant. evolution is now the marching banner on which atheism marches to.

ALSO, when evolution tells me that everything i do is subconcious, and even doing things such things as skipping in line is some sort of subconcious way for me to try to get ahead of the gene-battle?

that says a lot. that tells me something about how evolution speaks about life.

tung, if you are starting bio 1, don't come across as some dick with some bits of knowledge. i've read your topics in here, they don't come off as intelligent. in fact, all you do is have a ' f**k you ' demeanor while successfully avoiding the actual debate/question.

I saw nothing in what Tung said as being arrogant. Everything you do is subconscious? That's not evolution, that's psychology. There are believing and non-believing psychiatrists out there so can't blame that on a belief system.

I do concede that the perspective of a theistic evolution-believer would have a far more serious consideration into the idea of a day (in Genesis) not being a literal twenty-four hour period. But, it's really not convincing. And, further, the suggestion from the believer to redefine the day in order to satisfy conflicting ideas is a clear psychological trait of cognitive dissonance. The proposal is merely designed to cure the believer of his conflicting discomfort but still retain the "feel-good" rewards of holding his beliefs.

Anyone else heard of the Parable of the Invisible Gardener?

I think some of you are using the bible as being fact. There is a difference between fact and opinion. Belief in the bible is an opinion. Nothing it says can be proven. I'm not saying I don't believe there's a God; I'm just saying I don't believe in christianity and I certainly don't believe anything the bible has to say. I call it the grapevine theory. With each telling the story changes a little. Before the bible information was passed on mostly orally since hardly anybody knew how to read or write. Oral history is a very inaccurate source if information.

Actually he is right on the origins of atheism. Check the Theism and Atheism section on Wikipedia or something of the sort.

Wikipedia has been well known to be inaccurate. Anybody can add information to it.

Uh, yeah, considering the little ocean-dwellers evolved to later step foot on land. Scientists have found a fossilized fish who exhibits evidence of these evolutionary traits.

And there definitely has been change in the human DNA in the time we've been on earth. For one, we're much taller than our human counter-parts in the early middle ages (their height only usually ranged from 4-5 feet as adults). Plus our appendixes (which used to be another stomach when we couldn't get enough food) have withered away and become useless. And our pinky toes have become progressively smaller over time.
Oohh, I saw this really interesting documentary about that on the history channel once! The same thing could have happened with any book back then though, including the Qur'an, when the only printing methods are having a bunch of monks copying shit down over and over again in candlelight.
lol no, in fact, it IS the truth, whether you like it or not.
A baby is born without a coherent thought in its head, let alone any societal concept of God.

And I'm not a Satanist, as I don't believe in Satan or hell, and I really don't dig ritualism.

Could someone please enlighten me on satanism? I have read the satanic bible and it seems full of contradiction. They say they have no belief in God or Satan. They are against altruism. But the book is full of rituals and witchcraft type things that all say "Hail, Satan!" at the end of them. What is Satan exactly to these people? They slam organized religion, but they themselves seem very organized.

I know I'm nitpicking here but it's not appendixes, it's appendices.

Her, thanks.
The fact is that we are born without any belief system whatsoever, and by definition we are atheists. This is where atheism originates. Atheism is as old as the human race. Theism is only as old as its prophets.

This is historical fact, whether you like it or not.

Not too long ago after mapping the human genome, they have found the "God" gene. A gene that makes us predisposed to believing in a higher power. Not saying it WILL make you believe in one, just a predisposition for it. Unless they've changed their position on that. That's the last thing I heard about it in the news.



To answer the person who started this thread; I believe there is a God although I know it can't be proven. I also believe in evolution as being the only logical answer for how we are here. I don't believe any of the hocus pocus, mumbo jumbo the bible says. I know some people in here will try to slam me for being contractictory. I'm only contradicting YOUR beliefs. There's no rule that says I have to believe what the majority believes in. By majority I mean if you believe there's a God you must also believe what the organized religions say. I believe God isn't here. We're on our own, sink or swim. My parents were athiests and they taught me one very valuable lesson that I'm always grateful for. Question all authority! I'd have to say that questioning authority is the church's worst enemy and something they have striven (or is that strived?) to crush. I can see no other purpose for the church other than as a vehicle for controlling people. I know lots of nice people who use church as a means of comfort but the ones behind the scenes pulling the strings.....I question their motives. I think God takes care of the "why" we are here for some people. Evolution takes care of the "how".

I am new here and already I am seeing a trend. To some of you posters here: resorting to personal attacks only means you've lost the argument. It also makes you look less credible.

[BadCraziness]

So basically, Rhiannan, you're a deist.

I used to feel that way, but I think the probability of the existence of god is much, much lower than the probability that he does not exist. Bertrand Russell's celestial teapot, anyone?

So I'm an atheist in that I'm strongly inclined to disbelieve the existence of any god, but I do recognize that there is a possibility, however small. You might call that agnosticism, but agnosticism requires you to believe that the probability of god's existence and his nonexistence are equal, which just isn't the case.

I'm pretty sure the major belief of Satanism is just doing whatever pleases you, giving into your passions, etc. etc. That comes above everything else.

And that God gene is really nothing but a hypothesis. In addition, the experiments Hamer ran don't really seem that conclusive or credible to me at all.

[shoryuken]

you ppl all idiot..

stopp fukin sayin tha smalll chancee dat go(o) exist.. n den say tha low chancee go(o)d dun exist.. FUK go(o)d...

yes.. tha sum1 out tha butt it maibi go(o)d or not... so STOP FUKIN SAYIN THA GO(O)D N shiet..

[ersatz]

There are no origins of atheism. Atheism is just the opposite of theism. It's not any sort of organized doctrine or anything...at all. Simply a word used to describe those who do not subscribe to theistic theories. There's no movement or beliefs or anything that goes along with being atheist, and no one "started" atheism. So, Tama, no one knows what you're talking about, because there's no such thing as the origins of atheism. It's a contrasting word, like light to dark.

[shoryuken]

There are no origins of atheism. Atheism is just the opposite of theism. It's not any sort of organized doctrine or anything...at all. Simply a word used to describe those who do not subscribe to theistic theories. There's no movement or beliefs or anything that goes along with being atheist, and no one "started" atheism. So, Tama, no one knows what you're talking about, because there's no such thing as the origins of atheism. It's a contrasting word, like light to dark.

rite...

alll ya'lll ppl.. idiott..

[illriginal]

There are no origins of atheism. Atheism is just the opposite of theism. It's not any sort of organized doctrine or anything...at all. Simply a word used to describe those who do not subscribe to theistic theories. There's no movement or beliefs or anything that goes along with being atheist, and no one "started" atheism. So, Tama, no one knows what you're talking about, because there's no such thing as the origins of atheism. It's a contrasting word, like light to dark.

Actually atheism is derived from satanism. So just because you don't know what I'm talkin about doesn't mean it doesn't hold weight. The problem here is that people who don't know what I'm talkin about haven't taken the time to learn history nor origins.

Like I said before, satanism is to Christianity, like atheism is to Baptist Christian.
Except with atheism which is a sect of satanism neglects any sort of omnipotence and doesn't have a specific faith in anything other than self and self only.

To sit here and tell me that the obvious is not true is just mind boggling as both have nearly the same agendas.

What I smell in here is that atheist are scared to admit the fact of the matter because people have labeled satanism as evil and evil only. Having that sort of origin would automatically catch attention on a negative perspective. Which would then probably make them lose all creditability.

Atheism existed AFTER satanism. Because before satanism and satan himself, people didn't have the thought nor the concept of a God existing or not, the word God most likely never even existed prior to Satanism. In those times it was just humans experiencing life.

[brooklyneast05]

so what were you when you were born?

[illriginal]

so what were you when you were born?

If we carry souls, then we are born originally as agnostics, people of God. From the point of birth to the point of death it is the human, him/herself that chooses to believe in God or not; through their own personal experience.

Just a side note for the word experience.

experience
1. a particular instance of personally encountering or undergoing something: My encounter with the bear in the woods was a frightening experience.
2. the process or fact of personally observing, encountering, or undergoing something: business experience.
3. the observing, encountering, or undergoing of things generally as they occur in the course of time: to learn from experience; the range of human experience.
4. knowledge or practical wisdom gained from what one has observed, encountered, or undergone: a man of experience.
5. Philosophy. the totality of the cognitions given by perception; all that is perceived, understood, and remembered.
–verb (used with object)
6. to have experience of; meet with; undergo; feel: to experience nausea.
7. to learn by experience.
—Idiom
8. experience religion, to undergo a spiritual conversion by which one gains or regains faith in God.

[NoSex]

Actually atheism is derived from satanism.

Blah blah, f**king blah.

1. Read a book.
2. What f**king "satanism" are you referring to? There are many different sects, philosophies, and ideas that are commonly identified as "satanistic."
3. The two main schools of Satanism are LaVeyan and Theistic: LaVeyan Satanism is a individualistic and atheistic church started in 1966 by Anton LaVey. [1] Theistic Satanism is often pagan in nature, but also immensely broad in its varieties. It's oldest known form dates back to the ancient texts of the Avesta. [2] [3]
4. Read a dictionary.
5. Read the posts in the f**king thread:

There are so many errors and absurdities in this thread right now that it would be fat too trying to even begin to "make right" the confusion in this place. Instead, I'll just deal with some really simple shit:

A non-believer is an atheist. An atheist is a non-believer. All of this is analytical. Atheism is merely the lack of a belief in any god (prefix "a," meaning without, "theos" meaning god).

Since atheism is not a religion, a doctrine, or a philosophy (just like theism), there can be nothing more said of it than that it indicates a "lack of belief in god or gods." So, to be an atheist, all you must adhere to is the narrow definition of "lacking belief." That's it. That's atheism.

Because of this, babies, who do indeed "lack belief," happen to be atheists. Further, atheism must be as old as non-belief, as old as mankind itself (possibly even older - it might be silly to call an insect an atheist, but it would still be analytically true).
(See above)